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TObound
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:24 pm

Air Canada's 330s look to be about the same age as TS. I wonder if there's a case to move TS 330s to mainline after the merger and move the 788s and buy more 788s to replace the TS 330s and Rouge 763s. Fit them with 290-300 seats like Norwegian and you have a solid LCC fleet. Is a ~290 seat 788 a viable LCC replacement or does it get beat out by 321LR/XLRs? I wonder. 90-100 seats more is a lot.

They'll have to start a replacement program for all the 763s early next decade. And the 330s are about 8 years behind. So arguably could be a larger combined order and spread over 8-10 years.
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:33 pm

TObound wrote:
Air Canada's 330s look to be about the same age as TS. I wonder if there's a case to move TS 330s to mainline after the merger and move the 788s and buy more 788s to replace the TS 330s and Rouge 763s. Fit them with 290-300 seats like Norwegian and you have a solid LCC fleet. Is a ~290 seat 788 a viable LCC replacement or does it get beat out by 321LR/XLRs? I wonder. 90-100 seats more is a lot.

They'll have to start a replacement program for all the 763s early next decade. And the 330s are about 8 years behind. So arguably could be a larger combined order and spread over 8-10 years.


What airline in their right mind would move high capex assets over to its leisure fleet at the expense of cheap paid off assets that can be utilized in the same fashion as Rouge 767s. If you look at AC's historical fleet decisions, you could probably admit to the blog how far away from reality your post is.
 
TObound
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:14 pm

yulexpansion wrote:
TObound wrote:
Air Canada's 330s look to be about the same age as TS. I wonder if there's a case to move TS 330s to mainline after the merger and move the 788s and buy more 788s to replace the TS 330s and Rouge 763s. Fit them with 290-300 seats like Norwegian and you have a solid LCC fleet. Is a ~290 seat 788 a viable LCC replacement or does it get beat out by 321LR/XLRs? I wonder. 90-100 seats more is a lot.

They'll have to start a replacement program for all the 763s early next decade. And the 330s are about 8 years behind. So arguably could be a larger combined order and spread over 8-10 years.


What airline in their right mind would move high capex assets over to its leisure fleet at the expense of cheap paid off assets that can be utilized in the same fashion as Rouge 767s. If you look at AC's historical fleet decisions, you could probably admit to the blog how far away from reality your post is.


No need to get your kickers bunched.

I am asking a question. I assume this forum was made for discussion.

Also, I don't think the idea is that far-fetched. It would effectively be turning Rouge/Transat into a competitor to Norwegian LH. I don't see Norwegian LH only deploying older aircraft. And as I said, would be timed for the aging out of a good portion of their fleet. Can those Rouge 763s go another decade?
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:23 pm

TObound wrote:
yulexpansion wrote:
TObound wrote:
Air Canada's 330s look to be about the same age as TS. I wonder if there's a case to move TS 330s to mainline after the merger and move the 788s and buy more 788s to replace the TS 330s and Rouge 763s. Fit them with 290-300 seats like Norwegian and you have a solid LCC fleet. Is a ~290 seat 788 a viable LCC replacement or does it get beat out by 321LR/XLRs? I wonder. 90-100 seats more is a lot.

They'll have to start a replacement program for all the 763s early next decade. And the 330s are about 8 years behind. So arguably could be a larger combined order and spread over 8-10 years.


What airline in their right mind would move high capex assets over to its leisure fleet at the expense of cheap paid off assets that can be utilized in the same fashion as Rouge 767s. If you look at AC's historical fleet decisions, you could probably admit to the blog how far away from reality your post is.


No need to get your kickers bunched.

I am asking a question. I assume this forum was made for discussion.

Also, I don't think the idea is that far-fetched. It would effectively be turning Rouge/Transat into a competitor to Norwegian LH. I don't see Norwegian LH only deploying older aircraft. And as I said, would be timed for the aging out of a good portion of their fleet. Can those Rouge 763s go another decade?


You also don’t see Norwegian LH making money, so perhaps not the best to use their business model.
 
TObound
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:31 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
TObound wrote:
yulexpansion wrote:

What airline in their right mind would move high capex assets over to its leisure fleet at the expense of cheap paid off assets that can be utilized in the same fashion as Rouge 767s. If you look at AC's historical fleet decisions, you could probably admit to the blog how far away from reality your post is.


No need to get your kickers bunched.

I am asking a question. I assume this forum was made for discussion.

Also, I don't think the idea is that far-fetched. It would effectively be turning Rouge/Transat into a competitor to Norwegian LH. I don't see Norwegian LH only deploying older aircraft. And as I said, would be timed for the aging out of a good portion of their fleet. Can those Rouge 763s go another decade?


You also don’t see Norwegian LH making money, so perhaps not the best to use their business model.


Good point. Though I assume with the network and support infrastructure AC has, they could do more with the same model than Norwegian could.

My specific pondering, I suppose, is how the 321LR/XLR compares to a stuffed 788. I would think that's what the eventual decision will be for AC as they look to replace the 763s and 330s for mainline, Rouge and Transat.
 
beechnut
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:00 pm

TObound wrote:
Air Canada's 330s look to be about the same age as TS. I wonder if there's a case to move TS 330s to mainline after the merger and move the 788s and buy more 788s to replace the TS 330s and Rouge 763s. Fit them with 290-300 seats like Norwegian and you have a solid LCC fleet. Is a ~290 seat 788 a viable LCC replacement or does it get beat out by 321LR/XLRs? I wonder. 90-100 seats more is a lot.

They'll have to start a replacement program for all the 763s early next decade. And the 330s are about 8 years behind. So arguably could be a larger combined order and spread over 8-10 years.


I don't know if it makes sense to cannibalize TS at this point. And the merger has not yet been approved by either the government or the TS shareholders. It depends on how much they want to keep TS as a separate entity with pretty much the same route structure, as they said they would, but I fully expect some rationalization will occur.

That said, AC has to make a fleet decision about the 763s at Rouge at some point in the not-too-distant future. If I were to guess, I'd say the A330s would be natural to move over to Rouge, and top up AC Mainline with more 787s. AC is going to be asking Boeing for some big-time compensation for the MAX fiasco, it wouldn't surprise me if that meant bargain basement 787-9s and maybe even -10s, the latter filling in for the A330s trans-Atlantic. But honestly, I don't see them spending big capital on new birds for a low-margin carrier. And I don't see any growth in the 788 fleet either. But as my wife so often points out, I've been wrong before ;)

Beech
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:15 pm

beechnut wrote:
I don't know if it makes sense to cannibalize TS at this point. And the merger has not yet been approved by either the government or the TS shareholders. It depends on how much they want to keep TS as a separate entity with pretty much the same route structure, as they said they would, but I fully expect some rationalization will occur.


Cannibalize or getting ready for fleet adjustments? This one returned from Condor in May and has been white since about then. I'm not sure, but it may have also been at GIG for maintenance in the meantime.

 
yulexpansion
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:38 am

beechnut wrote:
TObound wrote:
Air Canada's 330s look to be about the same age as TS. I wonder if there's a case to move TS 330s to mainline after the merger and move the 788s and buy more 788s to replace the TS 330s and Rouge 763s. Fit them with 290-300 seats like Norwegian and you have a solid LCC fleet. Is a ~290 seat 788 a viable LCC replacement or does it get beat out by 321LR/XLRs? I wonder. 90-100 seats more is a lot.

They'll have to start a replacement program for all the 763s early next decade. And the 330s are about 8 years behind. So arguably could be a larger combined order and spread over 8-10 years.


I don't know if it makes sense to cannibalize TS at this point. And the merger has not yet been approved by either the government or the TS shareholders. It depends on how much they want to keep TS as a separate entity with pretty much the same route structure, as they said they would, but I fully expect some rationalization will occur.

That said, AC has to make a fleet decision about the 763s at Rouge at some point in the not-too-distant future. If I were to guess, I'd say the A330s would be natural to move over to Rouge, and top up AC Mainline with more 787s. AC is going to be asking Boeing for some big-time compensation for the MAX fiasco, it wouldn't surprise me if that meant bargain basement 787-9s and maybe even -10s, the latter filling in for the A330s trans-Atlantic. But honestly, I don't see them spending big capital on new birds for a low-margin carrier. And I don't see any growth in the 788 fleet either. But as my wife so often points out, I've been wrong before ;)

Beech


AC has also indicated it will invest in bringing A330 cabin standards to that of the 787. This capex insinuates the likelihood of the 330 to be in the mainline fleet for at least 6-7 years given the investment required to complete such a task (also note the ever increasing count of fins in their MD&A)
 
doogan
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:17 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:44 pm

atdb.aero shows 4 additional 330's joining the AC fleet for a total of 16. I don't have full access so I don't see any more details.
 
codyul
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:53 pm

doogan wrote:
atdb.aero shows 4 additional 330's joining the AC fleet for a total of 16. I don't have full access so I don't see any more details.

So far no internal announcement, but I have been feeling this makes sense. Just a matter of finding good ones to lease. It has been so useful for growth and at the same time filling the gap of the MAX being grounded.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
Eirules
Posts: 1850
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:09 pm

Given that business class on the ex SQ birds is currently being sold as Premium Economy and these are due for refurb, if you bought a ticket for next year and the refurbs are complete, does that mean you’d be dumped into the new premium economy cabin while business is sold subsequently, or would you get the benefit of being put into the new business cabin?
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:33 pm

Eirules wrote:
Given that business class on the ex SQ birds is currently being sold as Premium Economy and these are due for refurb, if you bought a ticket for next year and the refurbs are complete, does that mean you’d be dumped into the new premium economy cabin while business is sold subsequently, or would you get the benefit of being put into the new business cabin?


The current two former SQ/TP aircraft are subbing for Rouge: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... da%20Rouge
 
Thomaas
Posts: 651
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:46 pm

Eirules wrote:
Given that business class on the ex SQ birds is currently being sold as Premium Economy and these are due for refurb, if you bought a ticket for next year and the refurbs are complete, does that mean you’d be dumped into the new premium economy cabin while business is sold subsequently, or would you get the benefit of being put into the new business cabin?

Having purchased a PY product you would certainly be put in PY on whatever other wide body operates the route.
 
tofur
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:15 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
Given that business class on the ex SQ birds is currently being sold as Premium Economy and these are due for refurb, if you bought a ticket for next year and the refurbs are complete, does that mean you’d be dumped into the new premium economy cabin while business is sold subsequently, or would you get the benefit of being put into the new business cabin?


The current two former SQ/TP aircraft are subbing for Rouge: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... da%20Rouge


No, those aircraft are operating as mainline aircraft. Please read again the link you provided and it says replaces Rouge. AC mainline is operating to Algiers from Montreal, and to Dublin from Montreal and Vancouver.
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6274
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:27 am

Eirules wrote:
Given that business class on the ex SQ birds is currently being sold as Premium Economy and these are due for refurb, if you bought a ticket for next year and the refurbs are complete, does that mean you’d be dumped into the new premium economy cabin while business is sold subsequently, or would you get the benefit of being put into the new business cabin?


As you have purchased a Premium Economy ticket, you would be accomodated in Premium Economy.

It is really no different than if a 787 had been rescheduled for the flight. You would end up in the 787's Premium Economy cabin.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:19 am

tofur wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
No, those aircraft are operating as mainline aircraft. Please read again the link you provided and it says replaces Rouge. AC mainline is operating to Algiers from Montreal, and to Dublin from Montreal and Vancouver.


That's right. For some reason I wrongly thought these were replacing Rouge due to the Max grounding and ensuing fleets shuffles but no, it was announced before that that the A330 would take over. Will they keep North Africa as Mainline with three-classes or move it to Rouge next year?
 
tofur
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:15 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
tofur wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
No, those aircraft are operating as mainline aircraft. Please read again the link you provided and it says replaces Rouge. AC mainline is operating to Algiers from Montreal, and to Dublin from Montreal and Vancouver.


That's right. For some reason I wrongly thought these were replacing Rouge due to the Max grounding and ensuing fleets shuffles but no, it was announced before that that the A330 would take over. Will they keep North Africa as Mainline with three-classes or move it to Rouge next year?


That is a good question. We did see the Warsaw route shift from Rouge to mainline and back to Rouge. I imagine these are quite unsettling times in the route and fleet planning departments. The uncertainty of when the 7M8 will return to service, (there should have been 36 7M8 operating at this time), and refurbishment of the 333 fleet. I believe we will see many adjustments until these matters are sorted out. Then of course, there is the pending transaction with Air Transat. One can only speculate what may happen should the agreement be approved.
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:39 pm

doogan wrote:
atdb.aero shows 4 additional 330's joining the AC fleet for a total of 16. I don't have full access so I don't see any more details.


AC’s Q2 MD&A says a total of 15 A330s by December 31, 2020.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:50 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
doogan wrote:
atdb.aero shows 4 additional 330's joining the AC fleet for a total of 16. I don't have full access so I don't see any more details.


AC’s Q2 MD&A says a total of 15 A330s by December 31, 2020.


Of which, 14 by December 31, 2019, while one 767 should leave by the end of the year and the rest (5) by December 31, 2020.
 
codyul
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:18 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Airlinerdude wrote:
doogan wrote:
atdb.aero shows 4 additional 330's joining the AC fleet for a total of 16. I don't have full access so I don't see any more details.


AC’s Q2 MD&A says a total of 15 A330s by December 31, 2020.


Of which, 14 by December 31, 2019, while one 767 should leave by the end of the year and the rest (5) by December 31, 2020.

Interesting as Q1MDA had said the total would be 12 by Dec 31 2019 and 13 total by Dec 31 2020.
So they've picked up two more somewhere.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:04 am

codyul wrote:
Interesting as Q1MDA had said the total would be 12 by Dec 31 2019 and 13 total by Dec 31 2020.
So they've picked up two more somewhere.


Yes, interesting. I wonder whether this one could be part of it.

-343 1156 9V-STR Singapore Airlines ferried 26jul19 SIN-QPG prior return to lessor (Skyliner)
 
codyul
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:16 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Yes, interesting. I wonder whether this one could be part of it.

-343 1156 9V-STR Singapore Airlines ferried 26jul19 SIN-QPG prior return to lessor (Skyliner)

Hhmm looks about right :))
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:21 pm

Planespotters reports that former 9V-STG/CS-TOW and still at GIG has been painted in Star Alliance livery. I guess this means C-GHLM will finally get the corporate ID livery next time it goes to a paint-shop.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 am

Airbus A330 -343 1012 C-GEGI Air Canada at GIG 11aug19, CS-reg, Star Alliance cs prior delivery ex CS-TOW (skyliner)
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:50 pm

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1Cfbi6HVxW ... gsdx6h9zmf

First photo I have seen. Next one will also wear the Star Alliance livery.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:56 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Next one will also wear the Star Alliance livery.


Thanks

:crazy:

:grumpy:
 
airnorth
Posts: 341
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:00 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1Cfbi6HVxW/?igshid=acgsdx6h9zmf

First photo I have seen. Next one will also wear the Star Alliance livery.


Looks great!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6352
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: AC A330 Fleet News and Updates Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:57 am

Here's another that hypothetically could be part of the three additional A333s.


A330 -343 1427 9V-STV Singapore Airlines ferried 14aug19 SIN-QPG prior return to lessor (Skyliner)
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