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Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:03 pm
by acjbbj
Does anyone have an idea if Delta will ever order and actually take delivery of any 787's? I wasn't surprised that they cancelled it, but it was very disappointing for sure.

Maybe in like 5 or 10 years? Or later?

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:11 pm
by NWADTWE16
IMHO doubtful, they are an A321Neo/LR, A359, soon to be A35K, A3302T, A339 carrier with a bunch of CSeries coming on line. Yes many of those I listed don't compete in the same category as the 787 but it shows a trend. Even the 737-900 is garnering many complaints from Delta Elites, and DL listens closely to their Elites. It certainly didn't help Boeing that they acted like a 2 year old that lost their binky recently, which directly cost DL money.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:18 pm
by ehaase
What could the 787 do for Delta that the 339/359 combo doesn't? I think Boeing's next chance with Delta is the 797 to replace 767's on routes that couldn't fill the 339 as well as the 753's.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:24 pm
by DeSpringbokke
Yes, the 787-10. Delta has already stated they are very interested in the aircraft and when it is time to replace the 767-400ER and the first 21 A330-300s, expect Delta to select it as the replacement. The A330-900neo, especially the 251 tonne variant that Delta could possibly end up being the launch customer, has more range than the 787-10.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:35 pm
by PlanesNTrains
NWADTWE16 wrote:
IMHO doubtful, they are an A321Neo/LR, A359, soon to be A35K, A3302T, A339 carrier with a bunch of CSeries coming on line. Yes many of those I listed don't compete in the same category as the 787 but it shows a trend. Even the 737-900 is garnering many complaints from Delta Elites, and DL listens closely to their Elites. It certainly didn't help Boeing that they acted like a 2 year old that lost their binky recently, which directly cost DL money.


The BBD complaint hasn’t stopped DL from talking up a potential 797. I’m sure everyone can agree to disagree without becoming petulant over it. Whether Delta orders the 797 is another story. As for the 787, why do they even need it? I’d say at this point they are in the pole position for making a great deal with Airbus for more A330neos. They’ll have s great wide body fleet.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:42 pm
by Prost
I feel that the next newsworthy DL order from Boeing will be the MOM/797. The 787 is too much plane to replace the majority of the 767 routes.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:52 am
by tu154m
No 787 or any Boeing products in their future-Delta has squarely placed all it's eggs in the Airbus basket going forward.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:59 am
by hOMSaR
acjbbj wrote:
Does anyone have an idea if Delta will ever order and actually take delivery of any 787's? I wasn't surprised that they cancelled it, but it was very disappointing for sure.

Maybe in like 5 or 10 years? Or later?


Honestly, how is anyone on here supposed to know this?

Nobody anywhere on Earth knows what any airline is going to order 5-10 years or more into the future. It’s entirely possible that the people that will be involved in whatever is ordered a decade from now don’t even work for the airline (or the manufacturer) at the moment.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 am
by georgiabill
tu154m how did you come to the conclusion DL will never order Boeing products in the future? I think it would be very foolish for DL or any major airline to put all it's eggs in one basket. If Boeing produces an airliner that meets DL needs or Boeing offers an attractive enough price DL would be foolish not to take advantage of the situation.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:02 am
by ElroyJetson
Why wouldn't DL order the 787 at some point in the future?

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:19 am
by neomax
It's extremely unlikely, but definitely not impossible. That said, DL has publicly lambasted the 787, so any order would implicitly mean eating their words which DL is no stranger to. So it is possible.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:55 am
by bgm
ElroyJetson wrote:
Why wouldn't DL order the 787 at some point in the future?


Why would DL order the 787 at some point in the future?

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:55 am
by deltal1011man
this thread will be fun. Boeing fan boys against Airbus fan boys as well as the typical Delta is somehow screwing up mixed with the DELTA IS AMAZING derp.

Yes Delta will order and operate the 787. The more interesting question is will they be Trent 1000 powered or will GE make a deal with TechOps and they end up GeNX powered. My money is on rollers powered (TEN) 787-9s and 787-10s.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:13 am
by TenniSommelier
I have a feeling Delta would operate the Boeing 787-10. But then again, no one can predict.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:20 am
by flyabr
The only 787 I can see DL ordering in the next 5-15 years is the 787-10 for TATL hub to hub flying, or maybe for some west coast TPAC flights. They have no near term need for the 788 or 789 given their current fleet, and the incoming A350s/A330NEOs. Perhaps when the A330CEOs are up for replacement the 789 MIGHT be considered. Like others have mentioned, the 797 has a good chance if the aircraft program comes to fruition.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:35 am
by PHBVF
IMO Delta isn't the type of airline that is too worried about streamlining their fleet:
B717
B737
B757
B767
B777
A320
A330
A350
MD80
MD90
CSeries

Delta is more worried about having the right aircraft for each route.
Though the A330NEO/A350 combination is a potent one the 787 family definitely has something to add.
Given that DL will probably not want the A330-800 (seen that nobody wants it) the 787-8 is a great aircraft for long & lean new routes. At least better at this role than an A338.
The 787-9 definitely has a role next to the A350-900, just look at the wide array of airlines operating (or planning to) operate both. Forgot which was associated with which, but I believe the 789 beat the A359 on shorter sectors, while the A359 was suberb on longer flights.
And finally the 78J is just a CASM beast. Period. It is larger than the 339 and up to 4000-5000nm it will be more efficient that any airbus offering.

Given that commonality is not really an issue for DL, I am confident they will want to fly the 787 at some point. Even if just one of the three variants.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:17 am
by mig17
And in the "near" future it will be:
B717
B737
B767
B777
A320
A330
A350
CSeries

And later:
B737
B797?
A320
A330
A350
CSeries

No 787 on the horizon because of the A330/A350 combo. For now, the true question mark at Delta is the 797.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:29 am
by keesje
At this stage they made different choices. But as many say, 5 years down the line things will look different and if Boeing offers a 787-10 mk2 or lean & mean 787-8 mk2 for a sharp price, Delta would be foolish to ignore!

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:49 am
by SEAxSANxBOS
Delta loves everything about the 787 except the price. If Boeing and Delta get a crazy good pricing deal going then you will see 787s in the fleet, but given the current fleet. Not anytime soon...

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:44 pm
by marcelh
SEAxSANxBOS wrote:
Delta loves everything about the 787 except the price.

I read in multiple threads that the 787 is dirt cheap to produce so that it enables Boieing to undercut Airbus in pricing, still make some a ton of profits and makes the deferred production costs laughable.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:57 pm
by seahawk
If they follow the trend in the USA, they will chancel the A330NEOs and buy 787s.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:46 pm
by xdlx
NWADTWE16 wrote:
IMHO doubtful, they are an A321Neo/LR, A359, soon to be A35K, A3302T, A339 carrier with a bunch of CSeries coming on line. Yes many of those I listed don't compete in the same category as the 787 but it shows a trend. Even the 737-900 is garnering many complaints from Delta Elites, and DL listens closely to their Elites. It certainly didn't help Boeing that they acted like a 2 year old that lost their binky recently, which directly cost DL money.


So they listen to the "elites" but follow beancounter recommendations, the 739 is CASM, RASM, stellar! However is a "stretch too many" for a Great design. DL could please many constituents on this subject by switching the remainder of the order to 738Max instead of 739.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:01 pm
by zkojq
ehaase wrote:
What could the 787 do for Delta that the 339/359 combo doesn't?

Waste more of their precious capital.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:13 pm
by Sightseer
If DL wanted to do some targeted long-haul expansion - like SEA-SIN, DTW-HKG, and/or JFK-India - I think a few 789s would go a long way toward making that expansion easier by offering less capacity than an A350 and lower CASM than a 777. The 789 may also be a more appropriate plane for a route like ATL-PVG.

So far, however, DL appears to feel differently.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:34 pm
by xdlx
Anyone paying attention? DL only expands internationally thru SKY TEAM and CodeShare, their own metal is not commited nor required for EXPANSION.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:44 pm
by deltadawg
tu154m wrote:
No 787 or any Boeing products in their future-Delta has squarely placed all it's eggs in the Airbus basket going forward.


Really? DL is not stupid enough to place all their eggs in one basket. DL regularly uses their size and buying power to play one manufacturer off the other in order to obtain the best possible pricing for their needs. The most glaring example of their needs versus manufacturer "bias" is the 797. Considering their recent spat with Boeing and WTO they still have stated their desire to buy a 797 AND BE THE LAUNCH CUSTOMER for such an aircraft. This is being smart and fulfilling their needs with the right equipment - not placing all their eggs in one basket.

Besides, if the A330-800 free fall continues DL may look to the 787 as a successor due to second hand market/Tech Ops opportunites in the future. If the A330-800 proves unsuccessful then look for a 789/10 order in the next 5 years (I would say approximately 15-20 units). DL could also probably get a great price based on Boeing wanting to get back in their widebody good graces.

That being said I would love to see some 789's in ATL and be able to fly on them on ATL-LHR/AMS/CDG, etc. but I am also looking forward to flying the A350's soon as well - both are great looking aircraft but I am looking forward mostly to the CS100.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:41 pm
by flyabr
deltadawg wrote:
Besides, if the A330-800 free fall continues DL may look to the 787 as a successor due to second hand market/Tech Ops opportunites in the future.


Why? DL hasn't expressed any interest (at least publicly) in the A338.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:28 pm
by PlanesNTrains
seahawk wrote:
If they follow the trend in the USA, they will chancel the A330NEOs and buy 787s.


What trend? So far, HA has canceled a handful of -800s under unique circumstances. That’s it. AA apparently doesn’t want or need to diversify. UA doubled their orders for the A350 (killing the notion that US carriers don’t want Airbus planes). If the trend is US carriers not wanting the A330neo, Delta says otherwise. Honestly, I’m at a loss as to what they need the 787 for or why the A330-900 isn’t perfect for them?

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:28 pm
by rbavfan
Good lord let this dead horse die. and while your at it the bring back the 757 horse should die as well.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:29 pm
by ElroyJetson
bgm wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
Why wouldn't DL order the 787 at some point in the future?


Why would DL order the 787 at some point in the future?




DL has a large and diverse fleet. History suggests they will go with any good frame if the price is right. I think the A359 is ideal for their Pacific route network. I do not think the A330 Neo is the best choice for TATL. I think the 789 is more versatile, can be used both TATL and in the Pacific Basin with lower operating costs and better fuel burn.

The A330 Neo is not a bad plane, but the 789 is better IMHO, particularly for DL. So who knows....? Boeing is aggressively cutting production costs. Maybe somewhere down the road they can make DL an offer they can't refuse.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:32 pm
by rbavfan
PHBVF wrote:
IMO Delta isn't the type of airline that is too worried about streamlining their fleet:
B717
B737
B757
B767
B777
A320
A330
A350
MD80
MD90
CSeries

Delta is more worried about having the right aircraft for each route.
Though the A330NEO/A350 combination is a potent one the 787 family definitely has something to add.
Given that DL will probably not want the A330-800 (seen that nobody wants it) the 787-8 is a great aircraft for long & lean new routes. At least better at this role than an A338.
The 787-9 definitely has a role next to the A350-900, just look at the wide array of airlines operating (or planning to) operate both. Forgot which was associated with which, but I believe the 789 beat the A359 on shorter sectors, while the A359 was suberb on longer flights.
And finally the 78J is just a CASM beast. Period. It is larger than the 339 and up to 4000-5000nm it will be more efficient that any airbus offering.

Given that commonality is not really an issue for DL, I am confident they will want to fly the 787 at some point. Even if just one of the three variants.


You forgot the A319

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:45 pm
by jubguy3
rbavfan wrote:
PHBVF wrote:
IMO Delta isn't the type of airline that is too worried about streamlining their fleet:
B717
B737
B757
B767
B777
A320
A330
A350
MD80
MD90
CSeries

Delta is more worried about having the right aircraft for each route.
Though the A330NEO/A350 combination is a potent one the 787 family definitely has something to add.
Given that DL will probably not want the A330-800 (seen that nobody wants it) the 787-8 is a great aircraft for long & lean new routes. At least better at this role than an A338.
The 787-9 definitely has a role next to the A350-900, just look at the wide array of airlines operating (or planning to) operate both. Forgot which was associated with which, but I believe the 789 beat the A359 on shorter sectors, while the A359 was suberb on longer flights.
And finally the 78J is just a CASM beast. Period. It is larger than the 339 and up to 4000-5000nm it will be more efficient that any airbus offering.

Given that commonality is not really an issue for DL, I am confident they will want to fly the 787 at some point. Even if just one of the three variants.


You forgot the A319


That's a subtype, not a type. The difference between an A319 and an A320 is the difference between a 737-600 and a 737-700.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:31 pm
by PlanesNTrains
thewizbizman wrote:
seahawk wrote:
If they follow the trend in the USA, they will chancel the A330NEOs and buy 787s.


Since when does Delta follow USA trends. See I have always seen it at the 3 US carriers, Delta, American, United but Delta is always the odd one out when it comes to how things are done and what is ordered and it seems to always work out for them.


Perhaps, but currently looking forward we appear to have:

AA: 787
DL: A330/A350
UA: 787/A350

All subject to change of course.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:31 pm
by thewizbizman
seahawk wrote:
If they follow the trend in the USA, they will chancel the A330NEOs and buy 787s.


Since when does Delta follow USA trends. See I have always seen it at the 3 US carriers, Delta, American, United but Delta is always the odd one out when it comes to how things are done and what is ordered and it seems to always work out for them.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:32 pm
by Austin787
If Delta really wanted the 787, they would not have cancelled their 787 orders. Delta clearly feels the A33NEO and A350 combo will meet their future wide body needs and they see no immediate need for the 787. That said, I could see Delta picking used 787s in the future if they change their minds.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:33 pm
by thewizbizman
Just kind of an off the charts prediction but wouldnt it be cool to see Boeing offer Delta a 797 + 787-9/10 bulk order that they couldnt turn down. Nothing Delta and Boeing hadent done before with the 737/767s.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:39 pm
by VictorKilo
I think it’s more likely that Delta will acquire the 787 from a defunct airline than Delta will order the 787 from Boeing.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:03 pm
by davescj
VictorKilo wrote:
I think it’s more likely that Delta will acquire the 787 from a defunct airline than Delta will order the 787 from Boeing.


Or DL will just acquire the airline via merger.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:24 am
by thewizbizman
davescj wrote:
VictorKilo wrote:
I think it’s more likely that Delta will acquire the 787 from a defunct airline than Delta will order the 787 from Boeing.


Or DL will just acquire the airline via merger.


VictorKilos theory seems plausible, I mean again, nothing Delta hasnt done before especially with long haul aircraft.
As far as a merger, I dont know, who could they merge with, only a few mainline carriers left in the US and if they tried with United or American I doubt it would go through the courts without the other airlines claiming Delta has a monopoly, I mean I wouldnt mind but...

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:47 am
by NWAROOSTER
I have said this before. Delta will buy whatever aircraft that will give Delta the biggest bang for the buck whether it is new or used. Delta shops the world for the aircraft it purchases and flies. :old:

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:01 am
by MrHMSH
ElroyJetson wrote:
bgm wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
Why wouldn't DL order the 787 at some point in the future?


Why would DL order the 787 at some point in the future?


DL has a large and diverse fleet. History suggests they will go with any good frame if the price is right. I think the A359 is ideal for their Pacific route network. I do not think the A330 Neo is the best choice for TATL. I think the 789 is more versatile, can be used both TATL and in the Pacific Basin with lower operating costs and better fuel burn.

The A330 Neo is not a bad plane, but the 789 is better IMHO, particularly for DL. So who knows....? Boeing is aggressively cutting production costs. Maybe somewhere down the road they can make DL an offer they can't refuse.


Can the 787 be introduced in the timescale DL wants, at the price DL wants and will it have the commonality? DL didn't seem to think so at the time they placed their A330neo order and are unlikely to change their mind in the near term.

DL is a very enthusiastic user of the A330 and I don't see the basis on which you claim the 789 is better particularly for DL. Seems like someone with a very large A330 fleet interested in a TATL aircraft available soon with low capital costs is prime A330neo customer.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:54 am
by ElroyJetson
MrHMSH wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
bgm wrote:

Why would DL order the 787 at some point in the future?


DL has a large and diverse fleet. History suggests they will go with any good frame if the price is right. I think the A359 is ideal for their Pacific route network. I do not think the A330 Neo is the best choice for TATL. I think the 789 is more versatile, can be used both TATL and in the Pacific Basin with lower operating costs and better fuel burn.

The A330 Neo is not a bad plane, but the 789 is better IMHO, particularly for DL. So who knows....? Boeing is aggressively cutting production costs. Maybe somewhere down the road they can make DL an offer they can't refuse.


Can the 787 be introduced in the timescale DL wants, at the price DL wants and will it have the commonality? DL didn't seem to think so at the time they placed their A330neo order and are unlikely to change their mind in the near term.

DL is a very enthusiastic user of the A330 and I don't see the basis on which you claim the 789 is better particularly for DL. Seems like someone with a very large A330 fleet interested in a TATL aircraft available soon with low capital costs is prime A330neo customer.



The question was will DL acquire the 787 at some point in the future. The question was not near term, middle term, or long term. The OP question seeks speculation since only the deity knows the correct answer at this point.

My speculation is yes, I think at some point DL will acquire the 787. I give several reason why I think this might happen. Hope this clears things up. :)

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:05 am
by Ziyulu
Please don't order the 787. I don't want to be squeezed in with 3-3-3 seating.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:11 am
by SEAxSANxBOS
Something that has not been brought up to discussion but should be noted is that Delta has influence on Virgin Atlantic and Aero Mexico plus increasing influence on West Jet. All have 787s. Delta's partners obviously can take advantage of the IM/EX Bank and get great prices, where I am sure DL got the same with Airbus on the 339/359s. Delta knows it's a great plane but for many reasons choose to go a different rout. If they did not like the plane or wanted to be petty and get at Boeing don't you think this would be different???

Another thing to remember is the Tech Ops MRO angle. Boeing wants to get into this. Delta has one of the largest technical and matanence operations in the world. This is now competition and would also play a part in furture deals.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:22 am
by VictorKilo
MrHMSH wrote:

DL is a very enthusiastic user of the A330 and I don't see the basis on which you claim the 789 is better particularly for DL. Seems like someone with a very large A330 fleet interested in a TATL aircraft available soon with low capital costs is prime A330neo customer.


But a small fleet of used 787 aircraft with low capital cost that takes over 763 and 332 TPAC flying, plus a few new long/thin TPAC routes, can coexist with a 330neo-based TATL fleet.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:29 am
by flee
VictorKilo wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
DL is a very enthusiastic user of the A330 and I don't see the basis on which you claim the 789 is better particularly for DL. Seems like someone with a very large A330 fleet interested in a TATL aircraft available soon with low capital costs is prime A330neo customer.


But a small fleet of used 787 aircraft with low capital cost that takes over 763 and 332 TPAC flying, plus a few new long/thin TPAC routes, can coexist with a 330neo-based TATL fleet.

I think American carriers are finding it difficult in the TPAC market. The Chinese/Korean and other Asian airlines flying these routes are very competitive - so the American carriers might find that their market share is shrinking by the day.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:56 am
by SEAxSANxBOS
flee wrote:
VictorKilo wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
DL is a very enthusiastic user of the A330 and I don't see the basis on which you claim the 789 is better particularly for DL. Seems like someone with a very large A330 fleet interested in a TATL aircraft available soon with low capital costs is prime A330neo customer.


But a small fleet of used 787 aircraft with low capital cost that takes over 763 and 332 TPAC flying, plus a few new long/thin TPAC routes, can coexist with a 330neo-based TATL fleet.

I think American carriers are finding it difficult in the TPAC market. The Chinese/Korean and other Asian airlines flying these routes are very competitive - so the American carriers might find that their market share is shrinking by the day.


Joint Ventures, at least within Delta and it's partners operate a metal neutral, with revenue and profit shared. So while there may be strong competition. It probably more along the lines of alliance vs alliance.

Re: Delta 787 in the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:47 am
by dampfnudel
Prost wrote:
I feel that the next newsworthy DL order from Boeing will be the MOM/797. The 787 is too much plane to replace the majority of the 767 routes.


:checkmark:

Both the 339 and 789/10 offer too much capacity on some routes (JFK-FRA for example), especially during certain times of the year. A 797 with a similar capacity as a 763 is what DL is hoping Boeing can deliver in a modern, more fuel efficient package.