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Zoedyn
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American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:06 am

It's official.
American Airlines has announced it will operate LAX-EZE (9841 km) with 3x weekly flights, using Boeing 787 Dreamliner, set to start on December 19, 2018.
Flights will depart in the afternoon on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. The return flights will take off on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays. Tickets go on sale on April 2.
A well-chosen destination for AA serving from LAX
http://aeronauticsonline.com/american-a ... nos-aires/
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prchan
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:49 am

And this comes with the reduction of frequencies on the LAX-GRU route (from daily to 4x weekly)
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:42 am

prchan wrote:
And this comes with the reduction of frequencies on the LAX-GRU route (from daily to 4x weekly)


Hopefully this service would attract a considerable amount of connecting traffic from China, Korea, and Japan, as LAX is favorably located in eastern Pacific to serve as a point of linkage between East Asia and South America, especially countries like Argentina
 
MapleLeaf789
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:44 pm

The Argentine economy is clearly improving. Air Canada has also resumed EZE from YYZ. Also, with Level and Norwegian, tourism is getting a strong boost.
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MoKa777
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:07 pm

prchan wrote:
And this comes with the reduction of frequencies on the LAX-GRU route (from daily to 4x weekly)


I am surprised that they will reduce GRU that much and I am also surprised that LAX-EZE did not have nonstop service until this...
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wedgetail737
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:25 pm

Isn't this the first time any airline has flown between LAX and EZE since Aerolineas Argentinas served LAX in the 1980's and early 1990's?
 
flyingcat
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:37 pm

Unless I am mistaken AR historically flew the route with a tech stop in the 747 and nonstop with the 340 but I thought I recalled some tech stops occurring seasonally even though it was listed as nonstop.
Last edited by flyingcat on Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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keesje
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:54 pm

.
American Airlines will be the first airline to operate flights between Los Angeles (LAX) and Buenos Aires


Image
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3 Million Inhabitants.. First airline? amazing..
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wenders825
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:13 pm

prchan wrote:
And this comes with the reduction of frequencies on the LAX-GRU route (from daily to 4x weekly)

LAX-GRU was only 5x weekly. this shortens that by one day. not a huge loss.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:26 pm

keesje wrote:
.
American Airlines will be the first airline to operate flights between Los Angeles (LAX) and Buenos Aires


Image
.
3 Million Inhabitants.. First airline? amazing..

Metro area of 15 million, actually...
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:37 pm

flyingcat wrote:
Unless I am mistaken AR historically flew the route with a tech stop in the 747 and nonstop with the 340 but I thought I recalled some tech stops occurring seasonally even though it was listed as nonstop.


You are correct. AR flew nonstop with the A340 and before that since 1969, with the 707, 747 and then the A310 with a number of stops (1 or 2).

wedgetail737 wrote:
Isn't this the first time any airline has flown between LAX and EZE since Aerolineas Argentinas served LAX in the 1980's and early 1990's?


AR left LAX in 2001 or 2002. That was the last time there was same-plane service between the two cities. Until December, one can travel on CM, AV, AM, LA, UA. AA or DL with a change of plane at their hubs.
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dcajet
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:43 pm

wenders825 wrote:
prchan wrote:
And this comes with the reduction of frequencies on the LAX-GRU route (from daily to 4x weekly)

LAX-GRU was only 5x weekly. this shortens that by one day. not a huge loss.


While AA may have just marginally trimmed capacity on the LAX-GRU route, it announced a number of other service cuts in Brazil that are not small potatoes: cancelled service to CNF altogether, reduced MIA-GRU to 2x day, JFK-GIG turned to seasonal and cancelled DFW-GIG. While not in Brazil, Quito UIO also lost service to DFW.
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C010T3
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:47 pm

Indeed dcajet, it is a decision of ceding market share to Avianca and Gol. O6 launched 2 daily flights, while G3 is about to launch 4 to the US.
 
PDPsol
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:51 pm

Many moons, and political and financial crises ago, AR used to service LAX via LIM and MEX. As mentioned, Buenos Aires is one of the most important cities in the region, with over 13 million metro population (quite a large area). AR is only now recovering from decades of dreadful, politically-influenced, leadership and commercial management. Had AR gotten its act together faster, they would have already announced this route. As it stands, AR has yet to even select its wide body fleet, so they have no spare capacity to operate LAX on their own.

AA is smart to announce this and MIA-COR. However, the real news in all this has nothing to do with Argentina, and everything to do with Brazil. AA is essentially shifting capacity away from Brazil, and toward Argentina. This commercial strategy does make sense as Brazil's economic recovery remains stalled with political uncertainty associated with presidential elections later this year, and the significant expected competition resulting from the Open Skies agreement with the U.S.
 
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:53 pm

Could UA or DL have made the first move on this route — i.e., does AA have any advantage at LAX that gives them a higher probability of success on this route?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:01 pm

questions wrote:
Could UA or DL have made the first move on this route — i.e., does AA have any advantage at LAX that gives them a higher probability of success on this route?

They've got a lot better brand recognition and FF base in Argentina than the other 2.
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:13 pm

questions wrote:
Could UA or DL have made the first move on this route — i.e., does AA have any advantage at LAX that gives them a higher probability of success on this route?


They are the #1 carrier at LAX and they own 50% of the Argentina - US market. If anyone can make this route work, it's them.

MalevTU134 wrote:
They've got a lot better brand recognition and FF base in Argentina than the other 2.


United was the # 1 US airline in Argentina for the better part of the 90s - they inherited the Pan Am franchise there, and the largest FF customer base. Unfortunately and due to United's own internal crisis, it was all squandered away and American now pretty much owns Argentina among the US airlines.
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dcajet
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:26 pm

C010T3 wrote:
Indeed dcajet, it is a decision of ceding market share to Avianca and Gol. O6 launched 2 daily flights, while G3 is about to launch 4 to the US.


Very generous and sweet of American. :smile:

Seriously speaking now, and while clearly some of the AA US-Brazil flying had to be hurting (why cancel routes it they are working just fine) I think that perhaps with the US-Brazil open skies given the go ahead, it removed some of the pressure to keep flying certain routes just to sit on the authorities.
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kimbra
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:29 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Isn't this the first time any airline has flown between LAX and EZE since Aerolineas Argentinas served LAX in the 1980's and early 1990's?


AR witha stop in MEX or LIM during the 80ties early 90 ties . Also PA with a 707 during the 70ties with a stop in Panama
 
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:47 pm

PDPsol wrote:
Many moons, and political and financial crises ago, AR used to service LAX via LIM and MEX. As mentioned, Buenos Aires is one of the most important cities in the region, with over 13 million metro population (quite a large area). AR is only now recovering from decades of dreadful, politically-influenced, leadership and commercial management. Had AR gotten its act together faster, they would have already announced this route. As it stands, AR has yet to even select its wide body fleet, so they have no spare capacity to operate LAX on their own.

AA is smart to announce this and MIA-COR. However, the real news in all this has nothing to do with Argentina, and everything to do with Brazil. AA is essentially shifting capacity away from Brazil, and toward Argentina. This commercial strategy does make sense as Brazil's economic recovery remains stalled with political uncertainty associated with presidential elections later this year, and the significant expected competition resulting from the Open Skies agreement with the U.S.

It could also be foretelling of attempts at JVs coming down the pipe between the US and Brazil, particularly for AA/LATAM. Now whether these would be approved is a different matter.
 
LatinPlane
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:58 pm

Happy for to see EZE regaining its former glory and connected to LAX again. I couldn't agree more with PDPsol's comments.

Got a little nostalgic of the times when one could see AR's beautiful 742s sitting at Tom Bradley. The departure board at Tom Bradlew would read AR385: Boarding: Mexico City - Lima - Buenos Aires

MEX was just a stop, but AR had full 5th freedom rights between LAX and LIM.
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ahj2000
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:02 pm

In the same announcement are DFW-OAX, MIA-GEO/PEI(!). OAX with the 175, other 2 with 319. Frequencies not noted
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PDPsol
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:54 pm

luckyone wrote:
PDPsol wrote:
Many moons, and political and financial crises ago, AR used to service LAX via LIM and MEX. As mentioned, Buenos Aires is one of the most important cities in the region, with over 13 million metro population (quite a large area). AR is only now recovering from decades of dreadful, politically-influenced, leadership and commercial management. Had AR gotten its act together faster, they would have already announced this route. As it stands, AR has yet to even select its wide body fleet, so they have no spare capacity to operate LAX on their own.

AA is smart to announce this and MIA-COR. However, the real news in all this has nothing to do with Argentina, and everything to do with Brazil. AA is essentially shifting capacity away from Brazil, and toward Argentina. This commercial strategy does make sense as Brazil's economic recovery remains stalled with political uncertainty associated with presidential elections later this year, and the significant expected competition resulting from the Open Skies agreement with the U.S.

It could also be foretelling of attempts at JVs coming down the pipe between the US and Brazil, particularly for AA/LATAM. Now whether these would be approved is a different matter.


Correctly stated, AA does not service the Latin American market in a vacuum, having LATAM as its joint-venture partner for the region. Of course, Brazilian authorization to this agreement is only now granted, as their legislature only now ratified their nation's Open Skies agreement with the United States. AA is absolutely informed of potential capacity changes associated with their LATAM agreement, and as you state, these moves may very well reflect that. However, despite operating in Argentina for over a decade, LATAM simply does not have the same footprint there compared to its Brazil presence, with operating only EZE-MIA as its sole 'long-haul'. More importantly the AA/LATAM joint venture covering Latin America does NOT INCLUDE ARGENTINA. It includes Brazil, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Uruguay and Paraguay. Ecuador is also missing and LATAM operates a subsidiary there too. The original joint-venture deal was announced over two years ago:

http://news.aa.com/press-releases/press ... fault.aspx
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:35 am

flyingcat wrote:
Unless I am mistaken AR historically flew the route with a tech stop in the 747 and nonstop with the 340 but I thought I recalled some tech stops occurring seasonally even though it was listed as nonstop

The A340 was really planned with a Lima stop. Peru last minute refused AR 5th freedom. They went ahead nonstop 3x a week September 2000.
https://www.lanacion.com.ar/29309-aerol ... la-en-lima

AA is obviously trying to duplicate the success of LAX-GRU. What better way than splitting the equipment. Limiting nonstop supply between 3 strong markets they have no competition and offer the most convenient 1 stops. Brilliant.
 
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:33 am

LatinPlane wrote:
Happy for to see EZE regaining its former glory and connected to LAX again. I couldn't agree more with PDPsol's comments.

Got a little nostalgic of the times when one could see AR's beautiful 742s sitting at Tom Bradley. The departure board at Tom Bradlew would read AR385: Boarding: Mexico City - Lima - Buenos Aires

MEX was just a stop, but AR had full 5th freedom rights between LAX and LIM.


One of 4 weekly the flights did LAX-LIM-EZE while another did LAX-MEX-EZE, the remainder did the LAX-MEX-LIM-EZE milk run. When the A310-300 took over the route, some flights stopped at BOG too, in lieu of LIM. After the cholera outbreak with tainted catering loaded @ LIM, things went south quickly for AR at LIM. The Peruvian government refused traffic rights, etc.

And who could forget AR's 747SP at LAX? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG4CoboGb2Q
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Rookie87
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:07 am

AA and LATAM have a metal neutral agreement in Brazil just like they do with BA over the Atlantic?
 
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:13 am

MapleLeaf789 wrote:
The Argentine economy is clearly improving. Air Canada has also resumed EZE from YYZ. Also, with Level and Norwegian, tourism is getting a strong boost.


You mean AC resuming NONSTOP service to EZE from YYZ. AC never stopped flying to EZE, they just do it via SCL. Nonstop YYZ-EZE service begins in May.
 
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:43 am

Rookie87 wrote:
AA and LATAM have a metal neutral agreement in Brazil just like they do with BA over the Atlantic?

They are seeking govt approval to have a JV with LATAM that covers a host of countries in South America.
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gatibosgru
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:53 am

LAX-GRU makes more sense as GRU-MIA-LAX or GRU-JFK-LAX. Nice to see this as a great product for LAX from LatAm.
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Rookie87
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:33 am

chepos wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
AA and LATAM have a metal neutral agreement in Brazil just like they do with BA over the Atlantic?

They are seeking govt approval to have a JV with LATAM that covers a host of countries in South America.



Thank you Chepos!
I thought I read further up that they had one for specific cities.
Kudos to AA for opening these new routes and being smart about when they actually operate the flights rather than jumping to daily. AA only covers Belize City, MEX, PVR, SJD, GRU, and EZE as far as Central and South America from LAX and hopefully the list grows.
 
flydude380
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:16 pm

About time! :)
 
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Mistral1
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:09 pm

This move from AA will certainly have an effect on LA SCL-LAX since that flight is filled with quite an amount of argentines.
 
babastud
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:19 pm

Will UA respond with a mix of SFO-EZE/GRU on a 787-8?
 
PDPsol
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:34 pm

babastud wrote:
Will UA respond with a mix of SFO-EZE/GRU on a 787-8?


Doubtful, unless Argentina's economic recovery somehow accelerates drastically and/or Brazil manages to tame political uncertainty with a winning presidential candidate offering desperately-needed policy reforms. As mentioned, UA 'inherited' PanAm's South American routes a quarter century ago, acquired in bankruptcy. UA squandered its leading market position to AA and currently operates in a purely reactive mode to the region. It has yet to complete and announce its joint-venture agreement with Avianca for the region.
 
PDPsol
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:44 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
chepos wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
AA and LATAM have a metal neutral agreement in Brazil just like they do with BA over the Atlantic?

They are seeking govt approval to have a JV with LATAM that covers a host of countries in South America.



Thank you Chepos!
I thought I read further up that they had one for specific cities.
Kudos to AA for opening these new routes and being smart about when they actually operate the flights rather than jumping to daily. AA only covers Belize City, MEX, PVR, SJD, GRU, and EZE as far as Central and South America from LAX and hopefully the list grows.


The AA-LATAM joint venture agreement is not for 'specific cities', but entire nations, specifically Colombia, Brazil, Chile, Peru, Uruguay, and Paraguay. Argentina and Ecuador, two nations with LATAM subsidiaries are glaringly missing from the agreement, which was executed over two years ago:

http://news.aa.com/press-releases/press ... fault.aspx

However, the joint venture is only now valid in Brazil as the nation's legislature has ratified the Open Skies agreement with the United States. This CAPA industry article from the link below explains the joint venture only comes into effect once Brazil and the United States fully ratify their Open Skies agreement:

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... lax-406153

Furthermore, Chile, another very important market, has yet to have its market regulator authorize the joint venture agreement out of market concentration concerns. However, regulators have held extensive discussions with LATAM and AA and are expected to authorize their immunized joint venture agreement soon.

Completely separate, LATAM has an agreement with IAG covering the trans-Atlantic market.
 
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:08 pm

PDPsol wrote:
babastud wrote:
Will UA respond with a mix of SFO-EZE/GRU on a 787-8?


Doubtful, unless Argentina's economic recovery somehow accelerates drastically and/or Brazil manages to tame political uncertainty with a winning presidential candidate offering desperately-needed policy reforms. As mentioned, UA 'inherited' PanAm's South American routes a quarter century ago, acquired in bankruptcy. UA squandered its leading market position to AA and currently operates in a purely reactive mode to the region. It has yet to complete and announce its joint-venture agreement with Avianca for the region.


AA purchased Eastern's South American and Caribbean routes, correct?

Who had a larger presence in South America, PanAm or Eastern? Who had a stronger network?

As a side note, I remember AA's full page newspaper ads at the time, "Latin American."
 
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:35 pm

Mistral1 wrote:
This move from AA will certainly have an effect on LA SCL-LAX since that flight is filled with quite an amount of argentines.


This was my initial thought as well. Flew LAXSCL in early February and what must have been half the plane were connecting onward to either COR or EZE. Can't imagine too many would shift to LAXEZE to backtrack to COR but I'm unfamiliar with whether it's advantageous to connect in SCL versus EZE.
 
FSDan
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:27 pm

Mistral1 wrote:
This move from AA will certainly have an effect on LA SCL-LAX since that flight is filled with quite an amount of argentines.


The LAX-SCL flights aren't daily, and neither will this new service be. I wonder if AA will schedule their flight such that it operates on days when LA LAX-SCL doesn't operate...
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dcajet
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:59 pm

questions wrote:
PDPsol wrote:
babastud wrote:
Will UA respond with a mix of SFO-EZE/GRU on a 787-8?


Doubtful, unless Argentina's economic recovery somehow accelerates drastically and/or Brazil manages to tame political uncertainty with a winning presidential candidate offering desperately-needed policy reforms. As mentioned, UA 'inherited' PanAm's South American routes a quarter century ago, acquired in bankruptcy. UA squandered its leading market position to AA and currently operates in a purely reactive mode to the region. It has yet to complete and announce its joint-venture agreement with Avianca for the region.


AA purchased Eastern's South American and Caribbean routes, correct?

Who had a larger presence in South America, PanAm or Eastern? Who had a stronger network?

As a side note, I remember AA's full page newspaper ads at the time, "Latin American."


Yes, AA purchased Eastern's routes.

To answer you second question, it depends on the market. Pan Am only flew to the largest markets in South America: Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela and, towards the end, Chile. They also flew to MVD. Braniff (from where Eastern got its Latin American routes) flew to pretty much every country in the region, thriving on fifth freedom rights to connect pretty much every major/capital city within the region and with the US. Eastern reduced some of that intra-Americas flying and towards the end was focusing on non stops to EZE from MIA with second hand DC-10-30s. Also they did not touch Brazil until a few months before they folded.

In Argentina and Brazil, clearly PA owned the high yielding customer. Its FF base was the cream of the crop; every mover & shaker flew on PA's First Class cabins. United inherited that and did an excellent job until the late 90s, then it all came crumbling down with the closing of the MIA hub, CH. 11, closing the JFK routes... now the FF base is very segmented, but AA is the leader, no doubts about it.
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dcajet
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:07 pm

FSDan wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
This move from AA will certainly have an effect on LA SCL-LAX since that flight is filled with quite an amount of argentines.


The LAX-SCL flights aren't daily, and neither will this new service be. I wonder if AA will schedule their flight such that it operates on days when LA LAX-SCL doesn't operate...


In fact, AFAIK, the LAX-SCL nonstops on LA are seasonal only: Southern summers and winter breaks. For the rest of the year, LIM is the gateway to LAX on LA.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
tcaeyx
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:32 pm

dcajet wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Mistral1 wrote:
This move from AA will certainly have an effect on LA SCL-LAX since that flight is filled with quite an amount of argentines.


The LAX-SCL flights aren't daily, and neither will this new service be. I wonder if AA will schedule their flight such that it operates on days when LA LAX-SCL doesn't operate...


In fact, AFAIK, the LAX-SCL nonstops on LA are seasonal only: Southern summers and winter breaks. For the rest of the year, LIM is the gateway to LAX on LA.


LAX-SCL is actually year-round.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:37 pm

keesje wrote:
.
American Airlines will be the first airline to operate flights between Los Angeles (LAX) and Buenos Aires


Image
.
3 Million Inhabitants.. First airline? amazing..


It's more helpful to look at metro area populations over city limits. City limits NEVER tell the true story of the region. The B.A. metro area is over 13 million people, BUT its not a massively global business city, but important for the continent.

I feel this is a great way to split the aircraft usage. 4x GRU 3x EZE is perfect...with the lovely new J seats.


.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:39 pm

tcaeyx wrote:
dcajet wrote:
FSDan wrote:

The LAX-SCL flights aren't daily, and neither will this new service be. I wonder if AA will schedule their flight such that it operates on days when LA LAX-SCL doesn't operate...


In fact, AFAIK, the LAX-SCL nonstops on LA are seasonal only: Southern summers and winter breaks. For the rest of the year, LIM is the gateway to LAX on LA.


LAX-SCL is actually year-round.


I meant the nonstops? I know SCL-LIM-LAX operates year-round.
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LAXLHR
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Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:43 pm

dcajet wrote:
questions wrote:
PDPsol wrote:

Doubtful, unless Argentina's economic recovery somehow accelerates drastically and/or Brazil manages to tame political uncertainty with a winning presidential candidate offering desperately-needed policy reforms. As mentioned, UA 'inherited' PanAm's South American routes a quarter century ago, acquired in bankruptcy. UA squandered its leading market position to AA and currently operates in a purely reactive mode to the region. It has yet to complete and announce its joint-venture agreement with Avianca for the region.


AA purchased Eastern's South American and Caribbean routes, correct?

Who had a larger presence in South America, PanAm or Eastern? Who had a stronger network?

As a side note, I remember AA's full page newspaper ads at the time, "Latin American."


Yes, AA purchased Eastern's routes.

To answer you second question, it depends on the market. Pan Am only flew to the largest markets in South America: Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela and, towards the end, Chile. They also flew to MVD. Braniff (from where Eastern got its Latin American routes) flew to pretty much every country in the region, thriving on fifth freedom rights to connect pretty much every major/capital city within the region and with the US. Eastern reduced some of that intra-Americas flying and towards the end was focusing on non stops to EZE from MIA with second hand DC-10-30s. Also they did not touch Brazil until a few months before they folded.

In Argentina and Brazil, clearly PA owned the high yielding customer. Its FF base was the cream of the crop; every mover & shaker flew on PA's First Class cabins. United inherited that and did an excellent job until the late 90s, then it all came crumbling down with the closing of the MIA hub, CH. 11, closing the JFK routes... now the FF base is very segmented, but AA is the leader, no doubts about it.


Yes, AA is the Latin AMERICAN premium carrier, so they see it as their airline too. After all, down there is America (citizens of the USA forget this).
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:40 pm

questions wrote:
AA purchased Eastern's South American and Caribbean routes, correct?

AA was already the largest airline to the Caribbean with a thriving hub in Puerto Rico. SJU dates back to 1971. (Trans Caribbean purchase)

With Eastern's SA routes and bases in 1990, MIA became the main focus. Unlike United, still busy absorbing the PA Pacific network, AA was 100% committed. JFK Europe routes were canceled to redeploy the airplanes and the SJU operation was gradually folded into MIA.

LAX-EZE is the result of 28 years serving the market through good and bad times for both, Argentina and AA - lol
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6175
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:48 pm

babastud wrote:
Will UA respond with a mix of SFO-EZE/GRU on a 787-8?


Why? They can just fare bomb it with LAX-IAH-EZE connections to the extent there's excess capacity.
 
User avatar
Rookie87
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:20 pm

PDPsol wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
chepos wrote:
They are seeking govt approval to have a JV with LATAM that covers a host of countries in South America.



Thank you Chepos!
I thought I read further up that they had one for specific cities.
Kudos to AA for opening these new routes and being smart about when they actually operate the flights rather than jumping to daily. AA only covers Belize City, MEX, PVR, SJD, GRU, and EZE as far as Central and South America from LAX and hopefully the list grows.


The AA-LATAM joint venture agreement is not for 'specific cities', but entire nations, specifically Colombia, Brazil, Chile, Peru, Uruguay, and Paraguay. Argentina and Ecuador, two nations with LATAM subsidiaries are glaringly missing from the agreement, which was executed over two years ago:

http://news.aa.com/press-releases/press ... fault.aspx

However, the joint venture is only now valid in Brazil as the nation's legislature has ratified the Open Skies agreement with the United States. This CAPA industry article from the link below explains the joint venture only comes into effect once Brazil and the United States fully ratify their Open Skies agreement:

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... lax-406153

Furthermore, Chile, another very important market, has yet to have its market regulator authorize the joint venture agreement out of market concentration concerns. However, regulators have held extensive discussions with LATAM and AA and are expected to authorize their immunized joint venture agreement soon.

Completely separate, LATAM has an agreement with IAG covering the trans-Atlantic market.


My apologies, countries, not “cities”. Had the specific airports in mind when I wrote that.
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2577
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:51 pm

dcajet wrote:
questions wrote:
PDPsol wrote:

Doubtful, unless Argentina's economic recovery somehow accelerates drastically and/or Brazil manages to tame political uncertainty with a winning presidential candidate offering desperately-needed policy reforms. As mentioned, UA 'inherited' PanAm's South American routes a quarter century ago, acquired in bankruptcy. UA squandered its leading market position to AA and currently operates in a purely reactive mode to the region. It has yet to complete and announce its joint-venture agreement with Avianca for the region.


AA purchased Eastern's South American and Caribbean routes, correct?

Who had a larger presence in South America, PanAm or Eastern? Who had a stronger network?

As a side note, I remember AA's full page newspaper ads at the time, "Latin American."


Yes, AA purchased Eastern's routes.

To answer you second question, it depends on the market. Pan Am only flew to the largest markets in South America: Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela and, towards the end, Chile. They also flew to MVD. Braniff (from where Eastern got its Latin American routes) flew to pretty much every country in the region, thriving on fifth freedom rights to connect pretty much every major/capital city within the region and with the US. Eastern reduced some of that intra-Americas flying and towards the end was focusing on non stops to EZE from MIA with second hand DC-10-30s. Also they did not touch Brazil until a few months before they folded.

In Argentina and Brazil, clearly PA owned the high yielding customer. Its FF base was the cream of the crop; every mover & shaker flew on PA's First Class cabins. United inherited that and did an excellent job until the late 90s, then it all came crumbling down with the closing of the MIA hub, CH. 11, closing the JFK routes... now the FF base is very segmented, but AA is the leader, no doubts about it.


Quite correct. Pan Am was always the number one choice for people in Latin America. Even while the airline was longer highly regarded in terms of service in the U.S. and Europe towards the end, in Latin America people still paid a premium to fly Pan Am. Latin America was making a profit for Pan Am almost towards the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyUh-7R8sMI
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
User avatar
Mistral1
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:15 pm

Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:22 am

dcajet wrote:
tcaeyx wrote:
dcajet wrote:

In fact, AFAIK, the LAX-SCL nonstops on LA are seasonal only: Southern summers and winter breaks. For the rest of the year, LIM is the gateway to LAX on LA.


LAX-SCL is actually year-round.


I meant the nonstops? I know SCL-LIM-LAX operates year-round.


Last year LATAM announced SCL-LAX-SCL as a year round service.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4239
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines announces service between LAX and Buenos Aires

Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:57 pm

EZE-LAX went on sale this weekend, and as expected being the only nonstop on this route, AA is not feeling particularly generous. For a random date in January 2019. January is the peak travel season from Argentina.

* AA is pricing between AR$29,110 to AR$48,102. The lower fare is no longer available.

* UA via IAH is pricing at AR$30,382

* AV via LIM & SAL is pricing at AR$24,222

To price in US$, divide by 20.
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