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lawair
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THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:19 pm

Although THAI had a net loss on paper last year, it experienced an operating profit and seems to be feeling confident enough to expand on the success of its recent return to Vienna last year. According to Thai media (for example, http://www.ryt9.com/s/iq05/2805932), Acting Senior Executive Vice President, Commercial at TG reported that the carrier's performance has been strong so far this year, with the airline hoping to add frequencies to existing routes in Asia as a result of strong bookings. Those routes include destinations that are now popular among Thai travelers, including Korea (ICN), Japan (NRT, FUK) and Taiwan. TG and Thai Smile will also increase services to DEL and BOM. It has now ended Tehran (IKA) as a result of low demand.

More interestingly, TG is considering Manchester, Hamburg, and Madrid for the fourth quarter of this year. I imagine these plans are easily subject to change, and I am not aware of what aircraft they would use on such routes (although TG is refurbishing some aircraft with new business class seats for longhaul flying).

TG had nothing new to announce regarding US services, though they would have to wait for an FAA rating upgrade before launching anything anyway.
 
David_itl
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:34 pm

MAN is one of the biggest unserved routes. However, MAN-BKK by TG has been runoured to br launched since 1991! Therefore wheels on the tarmac at MAN is the only confirmation that we will believe it's happening.
 
flydude380
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:54 pm

MAN would be a good route (although SQ is there already!) so why not start BHX?!

It seems they serve the main destinations in Pakistan, India and DAC in Bangladesh. Then they’ll also have connections to Australiasia, Asia, Thailand etc... :)
 
Armodeen
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:00 pm

Isn’t MAN-BKK one of the worlds biggest unserved routes? That’s reason enough I would say. I bet EK etc would have a response though.

But yeah believe it when I see it on the ground at MAN with my own eyes! :lol:
 
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LTU932
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:03 pm

Is there even a real market for BKK-HAM? Even if, they'd be competing with EK and while they'd have the advantage of a nonstop flight instead of the one-stop via DXB, and as much as I wish HAM to have more intercontinental flights, I don't think BKK-HAM may be viable enough.
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David_itl
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:12 pm

flydude380 wrote:
MAN would be a good route (although SQ is there already!) so why not start BHX?


MAN-BKK market size around 135,000 passengers a year
BHX-BKK market size around 45,000 passengers per year.

That may be a reason why BHX isn't being considered at the moment.

http://www.anna.aero/2017/01/24/europe-thailand-trends/
 
LGAviation
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:18 pm

LTU932 wrote:
Is there even a real market for BKK-HAM? Even if, they'd be competing with EK and while they'd have the advantage of a nonstop flight instead of the one-stop via DXB, and as much as I wish HAM to have more intercontinental flights, I don't think BKK-HAM may be viable enough.


There is a market for HAM-BKK! The HAM metro area is rather large and rather wealthy compared to many other metro areas in Germany and is desperately underserved in terms of intercontinental service with EK being the only major player. EK currently is double daily and flights are always full while yields are pretty good. There certainly is a market for a second carrier to the east with decent O&D between HAM and BKK that could be developed further if there was a nonstop. Also, TG could offer lots of connections in BKK towards SE Asia and Australia. In Hamburg, a codeshare with EW could arrange for some feed if necessary but if done right it should work just fine. HAM as a city and metro area is larger than CPH, ARN, OSL, HEL and all of these cities can sustain nonstop service to Bangkok. Being currently based in HAM, I very much hope that this is true although to be honest by that time I might almost be back at my usual home base FRA.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
User001
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:41 pm

About time MAN was served. It’s in the top 5 unserved long haul routes worldwide, so was only a matter of time...
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:58 pm

Manchester is a perfect route for the A350! good time to return to Spain but would have preferred Barcelona but this route can easily be operated by the Boeing 787-8, I do not understand why THAI does not return to Düsseldorf? It is a bigger market than Hamburg and in Düsseldorf they have Eurowings where they can easily have shared codes. Warsaw, Helsinki are better options than Hamburg
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airlinermiami
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:23 pm

Great news for MAD ....They already served MAD with success for many years...It is the most wise thing for Thai to resume service to MAD...MAD is a higher yield destination than BCN...
let see...but they always kept MAD in mind...for better times...I believe that now it is just about time. MAD is again steadily growing at higher rates after a few bad years.
Good for THAI and better for MAD
 
jmmadrid
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:25 pm

MAD - BKK is not even on the Top 12 unserved markets list, according to Anna.aero.

While BCN is, the political situation in Cataluña and the new (3rd!) EMIRATES flight to DXB & connections make this potential THAI flight less attractive.

As I explained on another thread a few weeks ago, yields MAD-BKK are extremely low, and the Premium market is really small. Besides, the market is very seasonal, and THAI would have problems filling up a plane many weeks of the year. Last but not least, before EK, EY and QR started flying to MAD, THAI had a decent slice of the Australia-bound passengers. That market is also gone for THAI, unless they offer rock-bottom fares and trash the yields all the way to Australia.I can see them calling travel agencies to offer discount fares as a part of honeymoon packages.
I cannot believe they do not have more suitable places to send their planes to.

On the other hand, as an aviation enthusiast and frequent flyer, I welcome the news because it would probably mean cheaper flights to Southeast Asia for a period of time.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:45 pm

User001 wrote:
About time MAN was served. It’s in the top 5 unserved long haul routes worldwide, so was only a matter of time...


Dropping down the ratings... used to be top 3!!
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:46 pm

directorguy wrote:
Anyone hear thought the thread title funny?


:shock: :lol:
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:46 pm

flydude380 wrote:
MAN would be a good route (although SQ is there already!) so why not start BHX?!

It seems they serve the main destinations in Pakistan, India and DAC in Bangladesh. Then they’ll also have connections to Australiasia, Asia, Thailand etc... :)


Backtracking to India via BKK from MAN is a losing proposition, especially considering MEB3's strong presence.
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User001
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:08 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
User001 wrote:
About time MAN was served. It’s in the top 5 unserved long haul routes worldwide, so was only a matter of time...


Dropping down the ratings... used to be top 3!!


It is still number 3 but didn’t want to over egg it for fear of a certain somebody taking offence lol
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:54 pm

User001 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
User001 wrote:
About time MAN was served. It’s in the top 5 unserved long haul routes worldwide, so was only a matter of time...


Dropping down the ratings... used to be top 3!!


It is still number 3 but didn’t want to over egg it for fear of a certain somebody taking offence lol


Nothing like a good charade...
 
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DLHAM
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:06 pm

LTU932 wrote:
Is there even a real market for BKK-HAM? Even if, they'd be competing with EK and while they'd have the advantage of a nonstop flight instead of the one-stop via DXB, and as much as I wish HAM to have more intercontinental flights, I don't think BKK-HAM may be viable enough.


There is almost a 100,000 annual passengers from HAM to BKK alone, growing rapidly and with many high yielding passengers. Then additional passengers connecting beyond BKK and some additional Eurowings feed in HAM plus high cargo demand in Hamburg should make 4-5 weekly 787s or A350s work very fine.

This is the best, and IMO only effective, way for LH to compete against EK, TK etc., to let their *A partners connect HAM to an Asian Hub.
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LH658
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:26 pm

I one time back tracked from IST to JED via FRA on Lufthansa.
 
Cunard
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:15 am

LH658 wrote:
I one time back tracked from IST to JED via FRA on Lufthansa.


No one in their right mind would really do that unless there was a huge difference in the price which I'm assuming was the case in point!
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Cunard
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:25 am

flydude380 wrote:
MAN would be a good route (although SQ is there already!) so why not start BHX?!

It seems they serve the main destinations in Pakistan, India and DAC in Bangladesh. Then they’ll also have connections to Australiasia, Asia, Thailand etc... :)


BHX is only 90 minutes from LHR, I can't see THAI ever commencing service.

Going east MAN has more than SQ but I'm sure your aware of that!

BHX also has a fair amount of traffic going east with AI, EK, PK, QR, TK, T5.

I won't comment on your idea of backtracking as another poster has kindly done that.
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LH658
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:22 am

Cunard wrote:
LH658 wrote:
I one time back tracked from IST to JED via FRA on Lufthansa.


No one in their right mind would really do that unless there was a huge difference in the price which I'm assuming was the case in point!



Was actually cheaper significantly cheaper than Flynas, Turkish, and, Saudia which were my non stop options, Plus I earned more miles.
 
rutankrd
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:30 am

You paid for more miles as I am sure you didn’t do it in the back of the bus so to speak. Clearly mileage run.
 
MoonC
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:21 am

Surprised GVA isn't part of the lot.
 
Kadish
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:19 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
MAD - BKK is not even on the Top 12 unserved markets list, according to Anna.aero.

While BCN is, the political situation in Cataluña and the new (3rd!) EMIRATES flight to DXB & connections make this potential THAI flight less attractive.

As I explained on another thread a few weeks ago, yields MAD-BKK are extremely low, and the Premium market is really small. Besides, the market is very seasonal, and THAI would have problems filling up a plane many weeks of the year. Last but not least, before EK, EY and QR started flying to MAD, THAI had a decent slice of the Australia-bound passengers. That market is also gone for THAI, unless they offer rock-bottom fares and trash the yields all the way to Australia.I can see them calling travel agencies to offer discount fares as a part of honeymoon packages.
I cannot believe they do not have more suitable places to send their planes to.

On the other hand, as an aviation enthusiast and frequent flyer, I welcome the news because it would probably mean cheaper flights to Southeast Asia for a period of time.



Yields may be crap, Mad-Bkk may be the 12th unserved destination according anna.aero...but the 3 times ive flown with them in a 772 were always full. Maybe not enough to be peofitable...anyway a popular destination from Spain
 
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DLHAM
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:30 pm

Seems that BKK-MAN comes from December, 4 weekly A350s. Havent seen anything official ... Now its exciting to see when or if HAM/MAD come.
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Channex757
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:07 pm

User001 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
User001 wrote:
About time MAN was served. It’s in the top 5 unserved long haul routes worldwide, so was only a matter of time...


Dropping down the ratings... used to be top 3!!


It is still number 3 but didn’t want to over egg it for fear of a certain somebody taking offence lol

Funny routing that. I saw an analysis of it a while back.

MAN-BKK needs someone like TG as the leg onwards is going to be key too. There needs to be a good connection to HKT for example. Same goes for services around the region and into Indonesia.

The fare crack on the route is very polarised. There's a strong front cabin demand, but the back cabin is ultra price sensitive. BY are flying direct to Phuket but with no Business Class and the 787 has been a revelation on this route. Non-stop and cheap to operate too. If TG can field the right fare mixes and connections it'll be a success without impacting on BY who are catering to the value beach crowd.
 
Fiend
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:57 pm

Channex757 wrote:
MAN-BKK needs someone like TG as the leg onwards is going to be key too. There needs to be a good connection to HKT for example. Same goes for services around the region and into Indonesia.

The fare crack on the route is very polarised. There's a strong front cabin demand, but the back cabin is ultra price sensitive. BY are flying direct to Phuket but with no Business Class and the 787 has been a revelation on this route. Non-stop and cheap to operate too. If TG can field the right fare mixes and connections it'll be a success without impacting on BY who are catering to the value beach crowd.


TG starting MAN-BKK would definitely attract some customers from the ME3 and would hopefully keep prices competitive. I'd definitely be tempted
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Channex757
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:22 pm

Fiend wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
MAN-BKK needs someone like TG as the leg onwards is going to be key too. There needs to be a good connection to HKT for example. Same goes for services around the region and into Indonesia.

The fare crack on the route is very polarised. There's a strong front cabin demand, but the back cabin is ultra price sensitive. BY are flying direct to Phuket but with no Business Class and the 787 has been a revelation on this route. Non-stop and cheap to operate too. If TG can field the right fare mixes and connections it'll be a success without impacting on BY who are catering to the value beach crowd.


TG starting MAN-BKK would definitely attract some customers from the ME3 and would hopefully keep prices competitive. I'd definitely be tempted

I think it could stimulate new business and steal from London airports, as the nonstop would have an appeal of its own over one-stop ME3 routings.

TG could be attempting intercepts too; preserving their own passengers from the North who otherwise travel via LHR by offering a closer option (if it was to work and go daily)
 
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wolfsburg
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:32 am

They have planned to / already fit their 788 with crew bunk so should be good for all 3 routes. Now their 788 only used to fly regional routes across Asia and Australia so they should allocate the 6 788 into Europe. If the demand is good I'm sure they will upgrade to A359 later.
 
hynithuchi
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:48 am

MoonC wrote:
Surprised GVA isn't part of the lot.

They tried that before and it didn't work.
 
pmartin
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:24 am

Not an argument... that was over 20 years ago... Air Canada tried, stopped, started again and it worked. This being said, rather see CX or SQ coming to GVA than TG. Germany is really restrictive with MEB3, may explain Hamburg. This is not the case for GVA.
 
716131
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:59 am

Maybe even eyeing flights back to the US?
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SCQ83
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:17 am

Thai dropped MAD at a time Spain was in a deep economic recession and the ME3 traffic started to boom. So a terrible mix of things.

Now that the economy is doing better and traffic to Asia has increased greatly, I think Thai could do well in MAD if they play the BKK hub thing with competitive connections to the rest of Thailand, SE Asia and Australia.
 
talonone
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:51 am

jmmadrid wrote:
MAD - BKK is not even on the Top 12 unserved markets list, according to Anna.aero.

While BCN is, the political situation in Cataluña and the new (3rd!) EMIRATES flight to DXB & connections make this potential THAI flight less attractive.

As I explained on another thread a few weeks ago, yields MAD-BKK are extremely low, and the Premium market is really small. Besides, the market is very seasonal, and THAI would have problems filling up a plane many weeks of the year. Last but not least, before EK, EY and QR started flying to MAD, THAI had a decent slice of the Australia-bound passengers. That market is also gone for THAI, unless they offer rock-bottom fares and trash the yields all the way to Australia.I can see them calling travel agencies to offer discount fares as a part of honeymoon packages.
I cannot believe they do not have more suitable places to send their planes to.

On the other hand, as an aviation enthusiast and frequent flyer, I welcome the news because it would probably mean cheaper flights to Southeast Asia for a period of time.


BCN-BKK will be as all the routes to BCN are; low-yield pax traffic ( turist most of them). The MAD-BKK nevertheless did not had a high yield traffic, but, it was allways full with cargo. I never understood why they had dropped this route.
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DobboDobbo
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:04 pm

SQ789 wrote:
Maybe even eyeing flights back to the US?


I think this was discussed a few months ago.

The nub of it was that JFK-BKK and MAN-JFK were two of the 3/4 largest unserved routes on earth, so TH could route BKK-MAN-JFK-MAN-BKK and capture two large markets.
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:39 pm

I wonder if they'll attempt JNB also again. Think BKK is also now one of the largest unserved routes from South Africa (if not the largest). Since the last time they pulled out of JNB the growth in South African tourists to Thailand have been growing quite a lot...while Asian visitors to South Africa also increased significantly. Of course it is probably more low-yielding, but with good connections to Far-East destinations and Australia/NZ it could work. The 787-8 is probably also a much better aircraft for the route than what the 777-200ERs were.
 
r2rho
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:51 pm

HAM can definitely offer the volume. The question is if the yields would work. TG would be competing against the EK 1-stop. But IMO, with onward connections via BKK to SE Asia, they could offer something different to EK and it could definitely work 4-5x weekly.
 
Pepper456
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:50 pm

THAI LIS-BKK and OPO-BKK why not???
 
Cunard
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Re: THAI Eyeing MAN, HAM, Return to MAD

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:48 am

Neither LIS or OPO could support flights by Thai as there is insufficient demand for either of them to do so especially at this point in time when there are more likely candidates for the airline to serve before considering the Portuguese market which is fairly small.
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