9w748capt
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:23 pm

eta unknown wrote:
I'm more shocked that several posters here actually think an airline ops agent can send pax somewhere based on skin color rather than official documentation.


Are you kidding me? That's exactly what happened! The SU agent was too racist and bigoted to realize that oh, these are US-bound US citizens of Indian origin, not Indian citizens - and even if they were Indian citizens, presumably they all had green cards or valid US visas as they'd booked tickets to JFK. SU could have easily accommodated these passengers on other flights to the USA then worked with DL to get them to their final destinations, but nope.

I was tempted to fly SU to India several years back to get a ride on the IL-96, but that's not worth getting deported!
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:03 pm

So based on the video provided some of you think that despite the agent holding someone's US passport and passengers talking in the background clearly of North American origin, effectively begging to be returned to the US and the agent refusing to do that, somehow all of that means that he was only talking to Indian citizens?! It's interesting how typical Russian government response of pretending that everything is in order even when faced with evidence is also mirrored here on this forum.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:08 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
So based on the video provided some of you think that despite the agent holding someone's US passport and passengers talking in the background clearly of North American origin, effectively begging to be returned to the US and the agent refusing to do that, somehow all of that means that he was only talking to Indian citizens?! It's interesting how typical Russian government response of pretending that everything is in order even when faced with evidence is also mirrored here on this forum.


Exactly. The a.net trump brigade at work!
 
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globetrotter94
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:14 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
globetrotter94 wrote:
The only rational explanation I can think of for this is the PIO/OCI point mentioned by a previous poster. Even if a person surrenders Indian citizenship, they and their descendants (up to couple generations) can get Person of Indian Origin or Overseas Citizen of India status. This would enable them to move in and out of India visa-free. If, at the time, all of SU's alternate flights were cancelled, and they were unable to hold the passengers at SVO or provide all of them with onward connections to the US, they would have sought to minimize the damage (including possible deportation of the passengers from Russia) by sending those with no ability to re-enter India onward to the US, and those with the ability back to India. In terms of why they could not forward them to other airlines--possibly lack of seats? (I have gotten stuck at DEL flying India-US once, and during the winter holidays, it does take quite a while for any airline to sort out passage on other airlines)--or hold them at other SkyTeam hubs in the EU, etc.--there would be no reason to do that over sending them back to India.


PIOs and OCIs are not entitled to visa-free travel. They have to apply for OCI and PIO visas. Having ancestors from India is not enough (for obvious reasons: lots of Pakistanis have Indian ancestry too).

As visa holders (ie not Indian nationals), they are not guaranteed entry into India. Border officials have final say. It's the same all around the world.


That's true, but if those passengers were OCIs, they would at least have the right to petition to enter India, whereas the non-OCIs wouldn't even have that. That's all that airlines check for before allowing you to travel even in normal circumstances anyway: do you have the correct visa to request entry to a country. Of course, there is always a chance of denial.
6E, 9W, AF, AI, B6, BA, BI, BR, CA, DN, GA, IC, JL, KL, KU, NH, QR, SQ, TG, TK*, UA, VS
 
Lofty
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:50 pm

If you are an INAD then you are normally sent back to the place you have just flown from normally at the expense of the airline that has flown you.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:34 pm

INADs are passengers attempting entry to a country they have no valid documents for. In case the journey is disrupted, the carrier is responsible for rerouting as per IATA 735D. Quite the opposite is the case here where passengers wanted to get to their final ticketed destination and subsequently leave the Russian Federation.

Aeroflot did not follow any international standards and pursued its own racist agenda.
 
Adipocere
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:47 pm

This kind of racism happens in Europe too. CDG and FRA regularly wave Whites and Asians through passport control and spend the night in hotels during irrops while forcing black and brown passengers to spend the night in "holding pens" at the airport, under guard and with limited access to supplies and amenities.
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:50 pm

I can assure you that US citizens are not removed 'back to India' at CDG or FRA.
 
texdravid
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:55 pm

9w748capt wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I have never heard of using Aeroflot and Moscow as a one stop to India from the US!


Of course not - SU doesn't fly to MAA. They might even hate South Indians more than AI!



Your comments are so funny....because it’s true.

AI and it’s sordid history with southern metros....
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:34 pm

In Putin's Russia, Plane Flies You!
 
DDR
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:38 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
In Putin's Russia, Plane Flies You!


LOL, thanks for the laugh. In my head I even heard it with the Russian accent. :lol:
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:06 pm

DDR wrote:
kjeld0d wrote:
In Putin's Russia, Plane Flies You!


LOL, thanks for the laugh. In my head I even heard it with the Russian accent. :lol:


not much else to do with a 2 month old thread...seems to be a recent trend of dredging these up.
 
Feroze
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:14 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
DDR wrote:
kjeld0d wrote:
In Putin's Russia, Plane Flies You!


LOL, thanks for the laugh. In my head I even heard it with the Russian accent. :lol:


not much else to do with a 2 month old thread...seems to be a recent trend of dredging these up.


The lawsuit was filed this week; a new thread about that was merged with this one that was created when the story first came to light a couple of months ago.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:38 pm

lhrsfosyd wrote:
So based on the video provided some of you think that despite the agent holding someone's US passport and passengers talking in the background clearly of North American origin, effectively begging to be returned to the US and the agent refusing to do that, somehow all of that means that he was only talking to Indian citizens?! It's interesting how typical Russian government response of pretending that everything is in order even when faced with evidence is also mirrored here on this forum.

Unless I'm privy to the entire conversation- not selected video outtakes- then, yes that is what I'm thinking. I also think the affected pax may be holding 2 passports which is how they ended up back in India whereas "other" pax didn't, but will be interested to see the outcome. SU also has some explaining to do as they didn't fulfill their contract to transport the pax home. Due to the airports being closed this is a force majeure event which complicates things further.

And lastly- why do the affected pax identify as Indian if they are in fact US citizens? If you were holding a US passport would you accept a DEL boarding pass? Of course not- you would give it back to SU with your US passport and say I'm not Indian and I'm not returning to DEL. Many posters here are seeing what they want to see on the video and letting their own prejudices show.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:44 am

eta unknown wrote:
lhrsfosyd wrote:
So based on the video provided some of you think that despite the agent holding someone's US passport and passengers talking in the background clearly of North American origin, effectively begging to be returned to the US and the agent refusing to do that, somehow all of that means that he was only talking to Indian citizens?! It's interesting how typical Russian government response of pretending that everything is in order even when faced with evidence is also mirrored here on this forum.

Unless I'm privy to the entire conversation- not selected video outtakes- then, yes that is what I'm thinking. I also think the affected pax may be holding 2 passports which is how they ended up back in India whereas "other" pax didn't, but will be interested to see the outcome. SU also has some explaining to do as they didn't fulfill their contract to transport the pax home. Due to the airports being closed this is a force majeure event which complicates things further.

And lastly- why do the affected pax identify as Indian if they are in fact US citizens? If you were holding a US passport would you accept a DEL boarding pass? Of course not- you would give it back to SU with your US passport and say I'm not Indian and I'm not returning to DEL. Many posters here are seeing what they want to see on the video and letting their own prejudices show.


India does not allow dual citizenship so they cannot hold two passports. The OIC card mentioned earlier is not a valid travel document. It’s just a perpetual visa (basically a gimmick to make the INdia diaspora feel connected to India). That said very few people have an OIC card (it pretty obvious when you look at the OIC line at BOM). It looks to me that Aeroflot was having issues on flight to EU and didn’t want to pay to reroute these pax forward through Europe and then on to the US. So they just sent them back on Aeroflot’s flight (cost zero). The agent seems to behave like you are Indian so why do you care we are sending you back to DEL. Just deal. The white Americans were sent forward because no one would go back to where they came. The Indian-Americans did try and fight the system but were told they would be deported, be big problems, blah blah. So they relented. I think Mort people would do the same. Maybe super savvy Anet people wouldn’t but average joe/Jane would. Plus it’s Russia for gods sake. There is just a limit to the arguing you can do there.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:12 am

ElPistolero wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
I'm American, however they sound like two 'special snowflakes' that barked up the wrong tree. In the US that might get your way, in Russia, it gets you sent to India.

Tough lesson to learn, but they don't have a legal leg to stand on. The rest of the world isn't as soft and nice as the USA.


What's the lesson? That being a US citizen counts for nought if you're not white? Or is that only "snowflakes" think racism is unacceptable while..err.. "tough" (?) guys like you have no issue with US citizens being treated differently because of their appearance?

They're not Indian nationals. India doesn't have an obligation to let them in even if they have valid visas.


They were sent back to India by the gate agent because they copped an attitude and were yelling/making a scene.

You can't attribute every action on earth to racism. The card is getting worn out.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:08 am

"India does not allow dual citizenship so they cannot hold two passports". Indonesia used to be a similar situation, but I know plenty of Indonesian born, naturalised Australians that are holding 2 passports for 20+ years- basically the Indo Govt. doesn't know the Aussie passport exists. These pax always return to Indo via SIN (clearing immigration/customs and ripping off bag tags) and do a passport switch landside at SIN to enter Indo to avoid any unforeseen risks or questioning... how long were you away/where's your Australian visa? No doubt there are plenty of Indians who took up a second nationality/passport overseas. Similarly, Australia used to restrict 2nd nationality to native born Australians, but a sizeable number of Greek heritage diaspora obtained Greek passports when they went on an extended holiday to Greece.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:11 am

Varsity1 wrote:
They were sent back to India by the gate agent because they copped an attitude and were yelling/making a scene.

You can't attribute every action on earth to racism. The card is getting worn out.


We're all learning a lesson here:

In Varsity1's world, if a passenger "cops an attitude" or "yells/makes a scene", airline CSRs are within their rights to send the passenger to a country that is not their country, and which they explicitly state they do not want to return to. Sound logic, that.

Seriously though, do the decent thing and stop insulting everyone's intelligence. If it isn't clear already, CSRs don't have that right in any civilized country.

If someone treats US citizens as Indians on the basis of their racial characteristics (ie - appearance), that's racism. Seems calling a racist a racist really stirs up the anti-PC snowflakes these days.

I'll pose a simple question: is it okay for a company selling products to US citizens to treat two US citizens differently on the basis of their race?

This should be fun.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:19 am

eta unknown wrote:
"India does not allow dual citizenship so they cannot hold two passports". Indonesia used to be a similar situation, but I know plenty of Indonesian born, naturalised Australians that are holding 2 passports for 20+ years- basically the Indo Govt. doesn't know the Aussie passport exists. These pax always return to Indo via SIN (clearing immigration/customs and ripping off bag tags) and do a passport switch landside at SIN to enter Indo to avoid any unforeseen risks or questioning... how long were you away/where's your Australian visa? No doubt there are plenty of Indians who took up a second nationality/passport overseas. Similarly, Australia used to restrict 2nd nationality to native born Australians, but a sizeable number of Greek heritage diaspora obtained Greek passports when they went on an extended holiday to Greece.


Right. So let's assume these folk are breaking Indian laws because that'll deflect some of the blame away from a gate agent. The depths some folk sink to to obfuscate and deflect.

Anyway, no it wouldn't work with India. India has entry and exit controls. If you don't have an entry stamp in your US passport, or you don't have a valid visa for the US in your Indian passport, you're going to have some explaining to do. With a night in a cell a real possibility. I don't know how the US works, but in Canada, they cancel your PR once you get citizenship. I expect the US is the same with PR papers and/or green cards, so say goodbye to that valid visa.

Try again.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:43 am

Ah ElPistolero, why are you taking this so personally? I'm not defending the gate agent. What I am saying is I don't think the full story is being told based on selective video footage. I'm puzzled re your deflect comments as I have no agenda here versus others (closet snowflakes?) who are hyped up and quick to play the racism card.

FYI the USA cancels your green card when the passport is issued; however, actually surrendering the green card is another matter (US immigration can ask for it, but if you don't have it on you there's nothing they can do except note it as cancelled in their system).

Now as per your question, "is it okay for a company selling products to US citizens to treat two US citizens differently on the basis of their race?" the answer is buyer beware because in this instance your purchase involves transiting a country to which you dont have the right to enter (unless you obtain a Russian visa in advance which would negate the cheap SU ticket savings). I do know of incidents in other countries where pax were forced to sleep on the airport floor due to unforeseen operational issues resulting in not being able to enter the transit country with their particular nationality, but usually countries are happy to let these people linger in limbo until the situation is sorted. It's odd the Russians opted to remove the pax from the transit area- I mean wasn't Eric Snowden at SVO for almost 6 weeks?
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:27 am

eta unknown wrote:
Ah ElPistolero, why are you taking this so personally? I'm not defending the gate agent. What I am saying is I don't think the full story is being told based on selective video footage. I'm puzzled re your deflect comments as I have no agenda here versus others (closet snowflakes?) who are hyped up and quick to play the racism card.

FYI the USA cancels your green card when the passport is issued; however, actually surrendering the green card is another matter (US immigration can ask for it, but if you don't have it on you there's nothing they can do except note it as cancelled in their system).

Now as per your question, "is it okay for a company selling products to US citizens to treat two US citizens differently on the basis of their race?" the answer is buyer beware because in this instance your purchase involves transiting a country to which you dont have the right to enter (unless you obtain a Russian visa in advance which would negate the cheap SU ticket savings). I do know of incidents in other countries where pax were forced to sleep on the airport floor due to unforeseen operational issues resulting in not being able to enter the transit country with their particular nationality, but usually countries are happy to let these people linger in limbo until the situation is sorted. It's odd the Russians opted to remove the pax from the transit area- I mean wasn't Eric Snowden at SVO for almost 6 weeks?


I really don't care for obfuscation. It seems bit of a stretch to argue that they could have Indian passports. Accusing people of breaking the law is not something I would treat lightly.

The case here is fairly simple. US citizens were sent to India because a CSR/gate agent/whatever decided that they were Indians. If the simplest explanation is the best one, it's hard not to conclude that their appearance played a role in this. That is racism.

Now we can inject all kinds of random scenarios to deflect from that (passports/OCI/visa), but let's call it what it is. Obfuscation. It adds random hypotheticals to cast doubt on the passengers version of events. We have a video where a gate agent calls US citizens Indians, but even that's not proof. So we start entertaining the notion that they're carrying Indian passports instead of acknowledging that racism is a problem in a country in which African football players routinely endure racist chants and monkey chants. So much so, that western countries pointedly warn dark-skinned citizens about racism in Russia.

Which begs the question: what's more likely - that a gate agent from a country with a relatively high tolerance for racism suffered a bout of racism? Or that the US citizens affected were illegally carrying Indian passports and this confused the innocent gate agent?

As for the green card cancellation, I know for a fact that in Canada, you can't pick up your proof of citizenship till you surrender your visa. You can keep it; it's simply stamped "cancelled", and its required when you apply for a visa to visit your country of origin to check the category under which you immigrated (countries don't like letting former refugees in for fairly obvious reasons). A dangerous game to play with India. As another poster pointed out, they can be quite a tough bunch.

With respect to buyer beware, there is a lesson here: Don't fly SU. They were silly to do that. But that doesn't mean SU is in the clear. It's also true that Indian citizens get stuck in EU airports during IRROPs. Which is why they prefer ME carriers over the US3 TATL JVs (more flight options/shorter delays).
 
Noise
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:42 am

WIederling wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
And as always, we have heard one side only.


The WUSA9 story reads "synthetic".
( and what is so special about US-citizens? are they privileged to get their every whim and whinnie? )


Well, being citizens of the best country in the world is quite the privilege.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:59 am

So because you don't like my point of view, I'm obfuscating? Geez... do I need to put a trigger warning on my posts so as to not offend?
The case is not as straightforward as presented because we don't know ALL the details, yet you blindly accept what has been presented as 100% truth and choosing to play the race card because it suits your agenda. Any different point of view seems to be obfuscation. I do not for one second believe an SU ops guy can over-ride immigration rules/company procedures. I also can't believe the pax didn't stand their ground more with their US passports in hand.
TRIGGER WARNING: it's not just don't fly SU, rather don't fly any airline where one may encounter difficulties entering/transiting a country during IRROPS- I believe one poster correctly highlighted this above. I still find it odd Russia didn't just let them hang around in transit.
 
yoni
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:26 am

eta unknown wrote:
The SU agent is talking to a GROUP of pax. We don't know how many of them were holding Indian passports. We do not have the full conversation on video- only a selected part, yet the OP posted this thread with a pre-determined mindset. The fact the SU agent happens to be holding a US passport while talking about the Indian pax is perhaps why the video is public- to create a (I hate these words) fake news story.
Again, the SU agent is not Russian Immigration- he does not care what their nationalities are. For the record, the pax aren't deportees, rather they are "inadmissible" due to Russian transit restrictions. I'm more shocked that several posters here actually think an airline ops agent can send pax somewhere based on skin color rather than official documentation.


You have no idea. This is not an uncommon practice in Russia. Many of my non-white friends (black) traveling through Moscow have been interrogated by Aeroflot staff before boarding their flight who doubted their citizenship because of the color of their skin. They wanted to send them back to their "real" country in Africa even though they did not hold citizenships from any African countries and had never been to Africa. Fortunately, they were able to board their flight after a police (or border) officer ordered the Aeroflot staff to let them go. Most of my friends were in a state of shock. Where would they send them back to Africa ??? It was a surreal situation.
 
2175301
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:07 am

eta unknown wrote:
FYI the USA cancels your green card when the passport is issued; however, actually surrendering the green card is another matter (US immigration can ask for it, but if you don't have it on you there's nothing they can do except note it as cancelled in their system).


Not exactly: You have to surrender your green card to immigration officers just prior to the Naturalization (Citizenship) ceremony. If you do not have your green card you are politely directed to obtain a duplicate and to contact the INS when you get it. I believe a duplicate will cost you something like $580, and it will take months.

After you receive the duplicate, then you can reschedule your Naturalization ceremony. Without completing the Naturalization ceremony you do not get your US Citizenship document, and cannot get a US Passport.

My wife became a US Citizen about 1 year ago... You have no idea how closely she protected and guarded her Green Card due to the importance; and the cost and time for a duplicate.

I think it very far fetched that someone has both a valid date US Green Card and a passport. I am sure that it can exist if a person finds their old card after filing for the duplicate. But, it's not a common situation and given how the US INS operates I most certainly would not want to be caught with both documents.... The INS can (and does) revoke Citizenship for fraud - and then you cannot enter the country for a minimum of 10 years; and likely never - and it does not matter if you are married, have children, etc. I am sure most people would destroy the previously lost card at once if they found a lost valid dated US Green Card and had completed the Naturalization ceremony and had Citizenship papers.

Have a great day,
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:17 pm

STLflyer wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I have never heard of using Aeroflot and Moscow as a one stop to India from the US!
My, that is really asking for it! It seems they got what they paid for. It’s like the international version of travel hell from Allegiant or Spirit airlines.


That was my first thought. I would never, ever transit in a country I didn't have permissions to enter in the event of IRROPS unless I literally had no other choice. I would like to know that if I'm delayed until the next day, I can freely enter the country, get a hotel and eat a decent meal.

I hope for their sake, the Aeroflot flight was significantly cheaper than the other dozen options they had for getting from the U.S. to India.


I'd be surprised if Aeroflot was the cheapest option. Typical would be to connect via Dubai (Emirates), Amsterdam or London (Jet Airways for both, Virgin Atlantic or British Airways for the latter), Frankfurt or Munich via Lufthansa, or if all else fails, Helsinki via Finnair or fly Air India or United nonstop to the New York or San Francisco areas.

The USA should issue a warning about connecting via a Russian transit point unless connecting to a Russian domestic destination.
 
slickvik
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:47 pm

I think the issue is the transit visa. I am US citizen of Indian origin and I would be annoyed (but not in a rage) if this happened to me but I can understand why it makes logical sense. If you can’t stay more than 24 hours then airline can send you back to origin.
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:12 pm

eta unknown wrote:
"India does not allow dual citizenship so they cannot hold two passports". Indonesia used to be a similar situation, but I know plenty of Indonesian born, naturalised Australians that are holding 2 passports for 20+ years- basically the Indo Govt. doesn't know the Aussie passport exists. These pax always return to Indo via SIN (clearing immigration/customs and ripping off bag tags) and do a passport switch landside at SIN to enter Indo to avoid any unforeseen risks or questioning... how long were you away/where's your Australian visa? No doubt there are plenty of Indians who took up a second nationality/passport overseas. Similarly, Australia used to restrict 2nd nationality to native born Australians, but a sizeable number of Greek heritage diaspora obtained Greek passports when they went on an extended holiday to Greece.


India takes it very seriously because a lot were abusing the system.

Why should India accept if Aeroflot sends US Citizens to India? What if India deports and imposes fine on Aeroflot. Prior to 2012, there was a restriction in India, visitors with multiple entry visas cannot visit more than once in two months. This rule is still applicable to some nations. http://www.cgisf.org/page/display/261/26

He could have sent them to any SkyTeam hub in Europe with a visa waiver. Or go to immigration desk and get them visas for a day or two. Sending them back to India is the lease intelligent thing. So stop defending the jumo.
 
Blerg
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:13 pm

I am surprised that some of the highly insulting anti-Russian comments on here have not been deleted.
I thought this was an aviation portal, not a meeting point for Leftist social justice warriors.

Russian airport staff might be 'special' but they are far from being the worst. I remember when I flew from DEL to CPH via SVO, the airport staff at DEL wanted $650 just to re-book me on another flight after there was a cancellation. Luckily everything was resolved after six hours. Should I be crying now how Indians are racist towards whites? Or are the whites the only ones who can be racist?
 
kq747
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:30 pm

STLflyer wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I have never heard of using Aeroflot and Moscow as a one stop to India from the US!
My, that is really asking for it! It seems they got what they paid for. It’s like the international version of travel hell from Allegiant or Spirit airlines.


That was my first thought. I would never, ever transit in a country I didn't have permissions to enter in the event of IRROPS unless I literally had no other choice. I would like to know that if I'm delayed until the next day, I can freely enter the country, get a hotel and eat a decent meal.

I hope for their sake, the Aeroflot flight was significantly cheaper than the other dozen options they had for getting from the U.S. to India.


That is a very easy position to take for people with a passport from a country that has lots of visa free transit options, but many people have to transit countries that they could not otherwise enter visa free to get from A to B. Many African and Asian countries do not offer direct options or flights through visa free transit points. The India to US market obviously has direct options but AF/BA/KL/LH rely on these passengers quite a bit and even the UAE and Qatar only recently waived visa requirements for Indian nationals (even though it was fairly easy to get a visa prior).
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:24 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I have never heard of using Aeroflot and Moscow as a one stop to India from the US!
My, that is really asking for it! It seems they got what they paid for. It’s like the international version of travel hell from Allegiant or Spirit airlines.


That was my first thought. I would never, ever transit in a country I didn't have permissions to enter in the event of IRROPS unless I literally had no other choice. I would like to know that if I'm delayed until the next day, I can freely enter the country, get a hotel and eat a decent meal.

I hope for their sake, the Aeroflot flight was significantly cheaper than the other dozen options they had for getting from the U.S. to India.


I'd be surprised if Aeroflot was the cheapest option. Typical would be to connect via Dubai (Emirates), Amsterdam or London (Jet Airways for both, Virgin Atlantic or British Airways for the latter), Frankfurt or Munich via Lufthansa, or if all else fails, Helsinki via Finnair or fly Air India or United nonstop to the New York or San Francisco areas.

The USA should issue a warning about connecting via a Russian transit point unless connecting to a Russian domestic destination.


Well then be surprised. Aeroflot is typically always THE cheapest or one of the cheapest options (plus you get delta miles where as you won’t with Kuwait - another bottom feeder). While not totally similar, CDG used to have a bad reputation wrt to IRROPS and Indian citizens. They would not grant them temporary visas to stay at a hotel. While illegal immigration is an issue in the West, most Indian travelers can’t relate to this issue. They tend to be upper middle class and headed to the US or Canada (and got the visa and bought the flight). The notion that they would become illegals in say France selling trinkets on the street is like the twilight zone for them.

It is really amazing that people are so adamant that racism couldn’t have come into play. The guy bringing up Aeroflot asking for a fee in Delhi to him as proof that racism doesn’t exist is again a bit crazy. Most Americans dont even think about where we connect because, thankfully, Americans rarely are subject to strict visa controls (Russia is probably one of the few major countries that is strict). Brazil, India will bend the rules during real issues. The issue these pax faced was that they routed the white Americans to the US and the Indian-Americans to India. And they were motivated to do this, in my opinion, because it was cheaper - so just send the Indians back where they come from. That is the issue. And there is no way they were using Indian and American passports. India has entry and exit controls (and they literally find you entry stamp on exit and check your US visa if you are Indian). But like others have posted, people here are just throwing excuses out instead of taking the most obvious answer. Keep coming up with things...
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 2932
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:43 pm

kq747 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I have never heard of using Aeroflot and Moscow as a one stop to India from the US!
My, that is really asking for it! It seems they got what they paid for. It’s like the international version of travel hell from Allegiant or Spirit airlines.


That was my first thought. I would never, ever transit in a country I didn't have permissions to enter in the event of IRROPS unless I literally had no other choice. I would like to know that if I'm delayed until the next day, I can freely enter the country, get a hotel and eat a decent meal.

I hope for their sake, the Aeroflot flight was significantly cheaper than the other dozen options they had for getting from the U.S. to India.


That is a very easy position to take for people with a passport from a country that has lots of visa free transit options, but many people have to transit countries that they could not otherwise enter visa free to get from A to B. Many African and Asian countries do not offer direct options or flights through visa free transit points. The India to US market obviously has direct options but AF/BA/KL/LH rely on these passengers quite a bit and even the UAE and Qatar only recently waived visa requirements for Indian nationals (even though it was fairly easy to get a visa prior).


What about Ethiopian, which has been getting bigger planes and needs them? Granted it’s likely 2 stops, but the latter is on the same plane.
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 7213
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:52 pm

kq747 wrote:
...
That is a very easy position to take for people with a passport from a country that has lots of visa free transit options, but many people have to transit countries that they could not otherwise enter visa free to get from A to B. Many African and Asian countries do not offer direct options or flights through visa free transit points. The India to US market obviously has direct options but AF/BA/KL/LH rely on these passengers quite a bit and even the UAE and Qatar only recently waived visa requirements for Indian nationals (even though it was fairly easy to get a visa prior).


There are 30 SkyTeam Western Europe non-stop destinations from SVO.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1765
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:57 pm

eta unknown wrote:
So because you don't like my point of view, I'm obfuscating? Geez... do I need to put a trigger warning on my posts so as to not offend?
The case is not as straightforward as presented because we don't know ALL the details, yet you blindly accept what has been presented as 100% truth and choosing to play the race card because it suits your agenda. Any different point of view seems to be obfuscation. I do not for one second believe an SU ops guy can over-ride immigration rules/company procedures. I also can't believe the pax didn't stand their ground more with their US passports in hand.
TRIGGER WARNING: it's not just don't fly SU, rather don't fly any airline where one may encounter difficulties entering/transiting a country during IRROPS- I believe one poster correctly highlighted this above. I still find it odd Russia didn't just let them hang around in transit.


The formal complaint is linked in this story:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 74406.html

Long story short:

- They stood their ground.
- They were threatened with criminal and/or civil sanctions.
- They contacted the US Embassy.
- The US Embassy told them it was illegal for SU to send them to India.
- The US Embassy asked to speak to SU officials. SU officials declined.
- SU agents threatened to "make matters worse" for the pax if they didn't board the flight.
- White travellers allegedly confronted SU about the treatment of South Asian travellers.

DoT should be able to verify the interaction with the US Embassy at the very least. SU has responded with an apology but denies it was based on appearance. Surprisingly, they haven't explained what actually happened. Let's see how they respond.
 
MatthewDB
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:09 pm

texdravid wrote:
I have never heard of using Aeroflot and Moscow as a one stop to India from the US!
My, that is really asking for it! It seems they got what they paid for. It’s like the international version of travel hell from Allegiant or Spirit airlines.


Western US to India flights suck for routing options. Moscow is at least 1,200 miles shorter than any routes I can make. My 1 stop options involve transiting through LHR or AMS. Unfortunately there are few options transiting through East Asia as the flights to India are rather limited.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:07 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I have never heard of using Aeroflot and Moscow as a one stop to India from the US!
My, that is really asking for it! It seems they got what they paid for. It’s like the international version of travel hell from Allegiant or Spirit airlines.


That was my first thought. I would never, ever transit in a country I didn't have permissions to enter in the event of IRROPS unless I literally had no other choice. I would like to know that if I'm delayed until the next day, I can freely enter the country, get a hotel and eat a decent meal.

I hope for their sake, the Aeroflot flight was significantly cheaper than the other dozen options they had for getting from the U.S. to India.


I'd be surprised if Aeroflot was the cheapest option. Typical would be to connect via Dubai (Emirates), Amsterdam or London (Jet Airways for both, Virgin Atlantic or British Airways for the latter), Frankfurt or Munich via Lufthansa, or if all else fails, Helsinki via Finnair or fly Air India or United nonstop to the New York or San Francisco areas.

The USA should issue a warning about connecting via a Russian transit point unless connecting to a Russian domestic destination.



Why? I've never had a problem connecting, neither has my girlfriend, or family members, or clients that I've booked so far on SU.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1696
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:18 pm

MatthewDB wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I have never heard of using Aeroflot and Moscow as a one stop to India from the US!
My, that is really asking for it! It seems they got what they paid for. It’s like the international version of travel hell from Allegiant or Spirit airlines.


Western US to India flights suck for routing options. Moscow is at least 1,200 miles shorter than any routes I can make. My 1 stop options involve transiting through LHR or AMS. Unfortunately there are few options transiting through East Asia as the flights to India are rather limited.


What!?!??! You're kidding right? Limited one-stop options from the Western US to India? You mean other than EK, EY, QR, LH, MU, CA, CX, NH, JL ... so few options!!!
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1696
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:22 pm

ElPistolero wrote:

I'll pose a simple question: is it okay for a company selling products to US citizens to treat two US citizens differently on the basis of their race?

This should be fun.


Of course it is. Look at our "president" and his brigade of posters here. No surprise SU feels the same way!
 
kq747
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:07 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
kq747 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:

That was my first thought. I would never, ever transit in a country I didn't have permissions to enter in the event of IRROPS unless I literally had no other choice. I would like to know that if I'm delayed until the next day, I can freely enter the country, get a hotel and eat a decent meal.

I hope for their sake, the Aeroflot flight was significantly cheaper than the other dozen options they had for getting from the U.S. to India.


That is a very easy position to take for people with a passport from a country that has lots of visa free transit options, but many people have to transit countries that they could not otherwise enter visa free to get from A to B. Many African and Asian countries do not offer direct options or flights through visa free transit points. The India to US market obviously has direct options but AF/BA/KL/LH rely on these passengers quite a bit and even the UAE and Qatar only recently waived visa requirements for Indian nationals (even though it was fairly easy to get a visa prior).


What about Ethiopian, which has been getting bigger planes and needs them? Granted it’s likely 2 stops, but the latter is on the same plane.


I'm not sure I understand your point you're making. My post was in response to the previous post that suggested that people should never transit a country that they could not enter in case of IRROPS. I was making the point that for many passengers (whose passports do not have a lot of visa free travel options) using sixth freedom flights through Europe often cannot enter those countries and it is kind of strange to suggest that people should never do this when such passengers do it without issue 99% of the time. It easy for a US/EU passport holder to avoid transiting countries that they need a visa to enter as these are few. This is not the case for a great many travelers.
 
kq747
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: Aeroflot sent American citizens to New Delhi

Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:09 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
kq747 wrote:
...
That is a very easy position to take for people with a passport from a country that has lots of visa free transit options, but many people have to transit countries that they could not otherwise enter visa free to get from A to B. Many African and Asian countries do not offer direct options or flights through visa free transit points. The India to US market obviously has direct options but AF/BA/KL/LH rely on these passengers quite a bit and even the UAE and Qatar only recently waived visa requirements for Indian nationals (even though it was fairly easy to get a visa prior).


There are 30 SkyTeam Western Europe non-stop destinations from SVO.


I think the point I was making has been misunderstood?

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