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User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:36 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Perhaps, though that could also be a draw-card - think French food, for example. It's also noteworthy that tourism to New Caledonia has been growing strongly (for example, up ~9% from Australia in 2017).


You think CHC-NOU is a good idea, go for it.

I'll still think it's odd, no matter how successful it is or it isn't, and I'd still think that WLG-NOU would be better. Like I said, each to their own.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:16 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I can’t say I recall any service from CHC-NOU/NLK. When was this? CHC-RAR ran from 2004/10? And NAN has been on again off again seasonal for sometime.

It was definitely CHC-NLK, and it was many years ago - perhaps in the late '80s or 90s, and only ran for a short summer season. And was not repeated. More details than that - sorry, I don't have.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
PA515
Posts: 1542
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:01 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I can’t say I recall any service from CHC-NOU/NLK. When was this? CHC-RAR ran from 2004/10? And NAN has been on again off again seasonal for sometime.

It was definitely CHC-NLK, and it was many years ago - perhaps in the late '80s or 90s, and only ran for a short summer season. And was not repeated. More details than that - sorry, I don't have.

It was before April 1995 and with a 732. No more than a few flights. I think they were basically charters in connection with a bowls tournament in NLK, but with some saleable seats.

PA515
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:41 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I can’t say I recall any service from CHC-NOU/NLK. When was this? CHC-RAR ran from 2004/10? And NAN has been on again off again seasonal for sometime.

It was definitely CHC-NLK, and it was many years ago - perhaps in the late '80s or 90s, and only ran for a short summer season. And was not repeated. More details than that - sorry, I don't have.


Ah right so quite a while ago then.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:57 am

Deepinsider wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
Yield on the NZ-HK route might well be enough.

AKL - HKG is not a high-yielding route for CX, hence why it kept its horrendous 343's on the route right until the very end.

Cheers,

C.

Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!


It's nonsense. I think second point comes first and the outcome is an assumption turned into the first point.

Knowing the CX staff in Auckland I'd completely disagree with this comment on every level.

Sometimes we over use the lingo here.

Super simple example, If CX can get good yield and the product is suitable to the customers... put your flash equipment elsewhere where competition is higher and needed more.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:59 am

zkojq wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Let's stick to the facts rather than accusing Boeing of having their priorities in the wrong order

G-VNYL had its first flight on the 24th March, this was at least 3 weeks before the AD was issued. There are another 4 787's, 1 GF 789 (ready for delivery), 2 SQ 787-10's (flight testing) and 1 BI 788 (flight testing) all had engines attached to aircraft before and in all cases except for the second SQ 787-10 had test flights before the AD was issued.

Additionally there are 8 787's that have rolled out currently without engines. As noted earlier in this thread engines for these aircraft are being redirected to affected in service aircraft. I would also add that the next NZ 789 enters final assembly in just over 2 months time and no doubt they will have to wait for engines for this just like everyone else is, so they are not exactly in a win, win position

The facts are that Boeing is prioritising delivering 787-9s to new airlines (a delivery to Gulf Air today of their first RR powered 787-9) over the schedule integrity of the first airline to operate the 787-9. Boeing are prioritising their own cashflow.

Boeing are less concerned about already delivered aircraft that have been grounded, which is outside their control (even less where the engine purchase was negotiated direct between OEM and customer), than delivering new aircraft.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:34 am

Deepinsider wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
Yield on the NZ-HK route might well be enough.

AKL - HKG is not a high-yielding route for CX, hence why it kept its horrendous 343's on the route right until the very end.

Cheers,

C.

Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!


Also, hypothetically let's say this is the lowest yielding CX sectors, but that lowest yielding is still higher than any SQ or NZ flight, is it still not high yielding? I mean what is high yielding to CX? And does equipment assignment have a direct coloration to this?
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:09 am

Deepinsider wrote:
The New Zealand Aviation thread?

In some cities, I imagine they have Light Rail / Heavy Rail
websites, to discuss their never ending public transport issues.
Apparently there are none in Auckland. There will be never
ending city transport arguments/policies in that city, way longer
than Airliners.net will probably be around.

Why us?....Aviation thread!


Transport to the airport is aviation related in my mind. How this is achieved links into the Public Transport improvements so does go off topic slightly but the purpose it transport to the airport. If you disagree, choose to change the topic or bring something different to the table.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:21 am

NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
AKL - HKG is not a high-yielding route for CX, hence why it kept its horrendous 343's on the route right until the very end.

Cheers,

C.

Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!


Also, hypothetically let's say this is the lowest yielding CX sectors, but that lowest yielding is still higher than any SQ or NZ flight, is it still not high yielding? I mean what is high yielding to CX? And does equipment assignment have a direct coloration to this?


Interesting, I agree low yielding might still be profitable for one airline and not the other. Even with the A343 AKL might have been profitable, I don’t no. AKL was one of the first routes for the A359, the 77W May have been to big off peak.
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:36 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:10 am

NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
AKL - HKG is not a high-yielding route for CX, hence why it kept its horrendous 343's on the route right until the very end.

Cheers,

C.

Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!


It's nonsense. I think second point comes first and the outcome is an assumption turned into the first point.

Knowing the CX staff in Auckland I'd completely disagree with this comment on every level.

Sometimes we over use the lingo here.

Super simple example, If CX can get good yield and the product is suitable to the customers... put your flash equipment elsewhere where competition is higher and needed more.


Maybe you missed my words 'if that's so'
I was trying to illustrate it isn't so, with the comments they could quit
if it didn't make money. Sorry I overdid the lingo.
Regards.
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:36 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:19 am

NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
The New Zealand Aviation thread?

In some cities, I imagine they have Light Rail / Heavy Rail
websites, to discuss their never ending public transport issues.
Apparently there are none in Auckland. There will be never
ending city transport arguments/policies in that city, way longer
than Airliners.net will probably be around.

Why us?....Aviation thread!


Transport to the airport is aviation related in my mind. How this is achieved links into the Public Transport improvements so does go off topic slightly but the purpose it transport to the airport. If you disagree, choose to change the topic or bring something different to the table.


Yes you are quite correct. Two posts later, I tried to acknowledge that with the words 'OK fair enough then'
Sorry.
 
aotearoa
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 1:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:09 am

Hilarious comes to mind.

Someone here, without one iota of insight into VIrgin Atlantic’s own view on whether they take an a/c with engines, or engines alone, hurling accusations at Boeing for delivering an aircraft with engines.

I can assure you there are many contractual commitments that must be met during the aircraft purchase and delivery process. Both parties will be deeply involved in any variances around contract delivery dates.

ANZ is a RR Trent affected party, and I am absolutely sure that they will take the frames this year with engines. It’s the quickest way to get them to Auckland. Fly the damn things on wing.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1078
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:55 am

I do recall such a service but am scratching my head as to whether it was WLG or CHC.
Plane mad!
 
NZ321
Posts: 1078
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 am

It's interesting that AirCalin and Noumea have sort of side-stepped a lot of the bulk Asian tourist influx and also the American market. It's still quite a pleasant localised niche really. Can't say that I lament that. Some unharnessed expansion opportunities for said airline perhaps but the destination itself I think is well worth a look for those who haven't.
Plane mad!
 
NZ321
Posts: 1078
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:04 am

aotearoa wrote:
Hilarious comes to mind.

Someone here, without one iota of insight into VIrgin Atlantic’s own view on whether they take an a/c with engines, or engines alone, hurling accusations at Boeing for delivering an aircraft with engines.

I can assure you there are many contractual commitments that must be met during the aircraft purchase and delivery process. Both parties will be deeply involved in any variances around contract delivery dates.

ANZ is a RR Trent affected party, and I am absolutely sure that they will take the frames this year with engines. It’s the quickest way to get them to Auckland. Fly the damn things on wing.


That's assuming there are engines to fly and RR hasn't delayed the delivery of NZ's engines in order to meet the needs of existing grounded aircraft of any airline including NZ. Who knows what the contract says......
Plane mad!
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:36 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:18 am

There was talk about a SQ 777 turning up to help with the disrupted AirNZ schedules.
An old one (dry lease?) or a current one (wet lease?).
Has that idea gone away, is the single A340 going to be enough?

I really agree with Aotearoa above, cannot beat fully airworthy new planes arriving as
scheduled.
(legal costs zero for a start! ... imagine what legal stuff must be going in the meantime
for the AOG planes)
Way better than fiddling around trying with combinations of frames and engines, to get the
grounded ones going.

For all the knowledgeable insight many writers here do have, ....no one has yet given us
any real clues, about what RR 'power by the hour' really means when AOG arises.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:44 am

AOG?
Plane mad!
 
NZ321
Posts: 1078
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:47 am

I guess if NZ could have got 777s they would have got em. Makes a lot of sense in terms of NZ crews being in a position to operate. But maybe this doesn't fit into the 'power by the hour' we imagine. No doubt this picture will be revealed soon.
Plane mad!
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:36 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:48 am

NZ321 wrote:
AOG?

Sorry, I thought it was well known jargon.
See here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_on_ground
 
PA515
Posts: 1542
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:14 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
There was talk about a SQ 777 turning up to help with the disrupted AirNZ schedules.
An old one (dry lease?) or a current one (wet lease?).
Has that idea gone away, is the single A340 going to be enough?

SQ are replacing 77Es and 333s with A350s and 78Js. Two 78Js have been delivered and three more are due for delivery in May. The first 78J revenue flight was on 10 April. What arrangements have been made for SQ's 77Es I don't know. Some may have already been sold. 9V-SVL had a test flight on 28 Mar with the SQ titles and logo painted over, but has not flown since. Apparently it has been purchased by Boeing Capital Corporation. They have some other ex SQ 77Es stored at VCV.

If Air NZ could get a couple of SQ 77Es at a reasonable price that might keep them out of trouble. The other thing is there is still no Press Release from ALC about the 789 Air NZ was finalising a lease for in Feb. Delivery was meant to be in the 2020 Financial Year (probably between 01 Jul and 31 Dec 2019). This makes me wonder if they will get an interim aircraft for between now and the 77E replacement order arriving.

PA515
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:54 pm

PA515 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
There was talk about a SQ 777 turning up to help with the disrupted AirNZ schedules.
An old one (dry lease?) or a current one (wet lease?).
Has that idea gone away, is the single A340 going to be enough?

SQ are replacing 77Es and 333s with A350s and 78Js. Two 78Js have been delivered and three more are due for delivery in May. The first 78J revenue flight was on 10 April. What arrangements have been made for SQ's 77Es I don't know. Some may have already been sold. 9V-SVL had a test flight on 28 Mar with the SQ titles and logo painted over, but has not flown since. Apparently it has been purchased by Boeing Capital Corporation. They have some other ex SQ 77Es stored at VCV.

If Air NZ could get a couple of SQ 77Es at a reasonable price that might keep them out of trouble. The other thing is there is still no Press Release from ALC about the 789 Air NZ was finalising a lease for in Feb. Delivery was meant to be in the 2020 Financial Year (probably between 01 Jul and 31 Dec 2019). This makes me wonder if they will get an interim aircraft for between now and the 77E replacement order arriving.

PA515

6 April. We flew on a 787-10 BKK-SIN. So that must have been almost the very first service. (Revenue?...we did pay!)
As an aside, not related to NZ aviation, but just in case it goes there, while SQ have probably chosen just the right
interior for Asia regional routes (Actually very, very good compared with the A330 ), It's way, way inferior to the 77W and
A380 long haul product, so don't look forward to any announcement that the 787-10 might be AKL bound!
I'm not up with it, but it sounds like 78J must be the accepted designation now.
 
PA515
Posts: 1542
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:11 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
6 April. We flew on a 787-10 BKK-SIN. So that must have been almost the very first service. (Revenue?...we did pay!)
As an aside, not related to NZ aviation, but just in case it goes there, while SQ have probably chosen just the right
interior for Asia regional routes (Actually very, very good compared with the A330 ), It's way, way inferior to the 77W and
A380 long haul product, so don't look forward to any announcement that the 787-10 might be AKL bound!
I'm not up with it, but it sounds like 78J must be the accepted designation now.

Sorry about that. First 78J revenue flight was 03 April with 9V-SCA. Got confused with the first revenue flight for 9V-SCB which was on 10 April.

PA515
 
Singapore 777
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:32 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
... It's way, way inferior to the 77W and A380 long haul product, so don't look forward to any announcement that the 787-10 might be AKL bound! ...


I doubt the 787-10 will be bound for either AKL or CHC nonstop from SIN as SQ have almost never (except maybe the 777-300s for a while when they were short of suitable aircraft in the fleet) sent a regional aircraft nonstop from Singapore to New Zealand.

I would think the 787-10 could eventually be headed for WLG but that would probably be via a stop in Australia.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1078
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:44 pm

SQ 78J will not be Auckland or Christchurch bound as far as I know. But AKL and CHC are well within it's range as I understand it (AKL is 8409 km from SIN, while CHC is 8402 km and the range of the 78J is 11910 km so we are not out of the woods so to speak). What I understand is that SQ see this bird as a distinctly regional machine and configured as regional (lucky AKL and CHC but maybe not so lucky WLG? as It appears it will be seen regularly on back-up regional SIN-Australia service across the ditch). 77W, 359, and A380 seem to be the metal we will see for a while in AKL and CHC, 77W possibly replaced by A359 or maybe, ultimately, 779, after other destinations have it. I can't for the life of me understand to this day why SQ didn't opt for the A35K given the popularity of their A350 product but there it is. Maybe after the A380 is consigned to the desert we will see changes. Anyhow not expecting 78J down under any time soon.
Plane mad!
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:02 pm

Singapore 777 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
... It's way, way inferior to the 77W and A380 long haul product, so don't look forward to any announcement that the 787-10 might be AKL bound! ...


I doubt the 787-10 will be bound for either AKL or CHC nonstop from SIN as SQ have almost never (except maybe the 777-300s for a while when they were short of suitable aircraft in the fleet) sent a regional aircraft nonstop from Singapore to New Zealand.

I would think the 787-10 could eventually be headed for WLG but that would probably be via a stop in Australia.


WLG, maybe. A dead end I think. (Shame to say that, I was born there) Otherwise good to hear, because as pretty well as long as we can we can remember,
SQ has been near or at the top of list with the best carriers to NZ, and it would sure be a shame to see them drop the
product to regional status.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:36 pm

WLG is served by a regional 772 so a 78J while still regional is a good step up but it’s 336 seats compared to the 772’s 266? There is said to be a regional A359 aswell I wonder what capacity it will have?

Highly unlikely AKL or CHC will get anything regional from SQ, though CHC will be interesting as the 77E fleet reduces only it an IST get the long haul 772’s with 2-3 a day to Australia, PER/BNE atleast the rest fly regional now, they still have 8. The long haul A359 is quite a bit more premium as is the 77W.

SQ I would say took the 779 over the 35J due to its larger floor space, the 35J is the same size as the 77W while the 779 is slightly bigger almost 744 size.

As to NZ it takes time to get things sorted, fortunately those Hi fly aircraft haven’t been snapped up by someone else, is it just 1 frame for now?

They could I think use 2 Hi fly frames and 1 SQ 772 even if the next 2 789’s are delayed and 3 are still ground in NW, that’s 2 frames short of what they would of had. With a bit of re scheduling and also there are the A320/321NEO’s to be delivered with some current CEO’s remaining still.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 938
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:19 pm

I think WLG has to finalise what they're doing with the runway extension before any other airlines will consider what they do.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:48 pm

Deepinsider wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!


It's nonsense. I think second point comes first and the outcome is an assumption turned into the first point.

Knowing the CX staff in Auckland I'd completely disagree with this comment on every level.

Sometimes we over use the lingo here.

Super simple example, If CX can get good yield and the product is suitable to the customers... put your flash equipment elsewhere where competition is higher and needed more.


Maybe you missed my words 'if that's so'
I was trying to illustrate it isn't so, with the comments they could quit
if it didn't make money. Sorry I overdid the lingo.
Regards.


I meant to quote the original comment re CX
 
Kashmon
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:08 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:01 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
AKL - HKG is not a high-yielding route for CX, hence why it kept its horrendous 343's on the route right until the very end.

Cheers,

C.

Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!


Also, hypothetically let's say this is the lowest yielding CX sectors, but that lowest yielding is still higher than any SQ or NZ flight, is it still not high yielding? I mean what is high yielding to CX? And does equipment assignment have a direct coloration to this?


CX has bizarre premium dynamics on its flights - so many LONG haul routes where they carry an empty economy class but full cargo and business class
Also they fly to barely 50 cities unlike SQ/QR/EK etc so it is not surprising if AKL is a poor route for them even if it is better performing than SQ/NZ


the fact is when CX has the terrible A340- they were flying 10 times a week all year round.....
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:16 pm

Kashmon wrote:
the fact is when CX has the terrible A340- they were flying 10 times a week all year round.....


The 340 was not "terrible."

mmariner
aeternum nauta
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:34 pm

mariner wrote:
Kashmon wrote:
the fact is when CX has the terrible A340- they were flying 10 times a week all year round.....


The 340 was not "terrible."

mmariner


They were 10 weekly some years and daily others. They have been 2 daily seasonally for AKL since 2004/05. CX are frequency focused to SYD/MEL/LHR/JFK/LAX with 3-4-5 daily while not many other long haul routes have more than 2 daily and many are 1 daily.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1158
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:05 pm

Kashmon wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!


Also, hypothetically let's say this is the lowest yielding CX sectors, but that lowest yielding is still higher than any SQ or NZ flight, is it still not high yielding? I mean what is high yielding to CX? And does equipment assignment have a direct coloration to this?


CX has bizarre premium dynamics on its flights - so many LONG haul routes where they carry an empty economy class but full cargo and business class
Also they fly to barely 50 cities unlike SQ/QR/EK etc so it is not surprising if AKL is a poor route for them even if it is better performing than SQ/NZ


the fact is when CX has the terrible A340- they were flying 10 times a week all year round.....


Err, you've missed my point unfortunately, the original poster was commenting that AKL is not high yielding for CX. I believe he's saying this solely on the back of the equipment used by the airline. My point is what defines high yielding as far is a percentage let alone how working out what equipment is used relates to this?

I mean do we know any of the following?
- Is CX predominantly inbound or outbound?
- Is this route a VFR, Business or some other market?
- Is it O&D or is HKG a hub to AKL commencing or bound pax?
- What is value to these markets?
- What are their loads and actual yields?
- Why do they use the equipment they do?
- What do customers say about it?
- What's the CASM and RASM?
- How does One World play in this?
- How does the NZ alliance influence this?
- What alternatives are available in their fleet which would mean AKL preform better and have no impact on the route currently used by this alternative?
- Is there any historical trends when alternative equipment is used?

There are many many more questions, simply saying AKL's not high yielding (whatever number that is) because they use X aircraft is..... well..... let's say it shows how much guessing, rumor and speculation is said in these forums sometimes.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3262
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:51 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
They could I think use 2 Hi fly frames and 1 SQ 772 even if the next 2 789’s are delayed and 3 are still ground in NW, that’s 2 frames short of what they would of had. With a bit of re scheduling and also there are the A320/321NEO’s to be delivered with some current CEO’s remaining still.


There had been some talk of an 77E from BA too - at the end of the day I guess NZ will take anything they can get to help the issue. There will be allot of demand right now for spare widebody aircraft.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:57 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
They could I think use 2 Hi fly frames and 1 SQ 772 even if the next 2 789’s are delayed and 3 are still ground in NW, that’s 2 frames short of what they would of had. With a bit of re scheduling and also there are the A320/321NEO’s to be delivered with some current CEO’s remaining still.


There had been some talk of an 77E from BA too - at the end of the day I guess NZ will take anything they can get to help the issue. There will be allot of demand right now for spare widebody aircraft.


Someone mentioned a BA 744 bit it’s now coming to the peak NS I can’t see a carrier like BA leasing an aircraft out, possibly if NZ need something for the NW they might be able to.

There is plenty of options for NZ with several JV partners they can hopefully get to cover or lease from, more so probably NW season.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2053
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:20 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
They could I think use 2 Hi fly frames and 1 SQ 772 even if the next 2 789’s are delayed and 3 are still ground in NW, that’s 2 frames short of what they would of had. With a bit of re scheduling and also there are the A320/321NEO’s to be delivered with some current CEO’s remaining still.


There had been some talk of an 77E from BA too - at the end of the day I guess NZ will take anything they can get to help the issue. There will be allot of demand right now for spare widebody aircraft.


Someone mentioned a BA 744 bit it’s now coming to the peak NS I can’t see a carrier like BA leasing an aircraft out, possibly if NZ need something for the NW they might be able to.

There is plenty of options for NZ with several JV partners they can hopefully get to cover or lease from, more so probably NW season.

Exactly. I'm sure there were plenty of other (better, but costlier) options than HiFly. A decision which would have been driven by RR and not NZ
 
nz2
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:14 am

NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
AKL - HKG is not a high-yielding route for CX, hence why it kept its horrendous 343's on the route right until the very end.

Cheers,

C.

Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!



The Swire Group have a very large footprint in New Zealand, operating 2 vessels on regular weekly service up and down the NZ coast, 3 deep sea liner services with 6 vessels coming through NZ each month, at least 3 bulk (log type) vessels loading at NZ ports at any given time, 2 off-shore oil rig supply vessels permanently based in NPL, plus agency and stevedore operations and multiple offices. Then you have the Cathay part of the business.....

Swire knows New Zealand very well and have been active here for well over 100 years
 
Deepinsider
Posts: 154
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:30 am

nz2 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Deepinsider wrote:
Why are they still here? Why bother with New Zealand if that's so?
What importance is New Zealand in any foreign board room? None.....unless
it makes money. That's the (maybe small) truth!
The Swire Group would kill NZ (Where's that?) in a flash, if it didn't make money!



The Swire Group have a very large footprint in New Zealand, operating 2 vessels on regular weekly service up and down the NZ coast, 3 deep sea liner services with 6 vessels coming through NZ each month, at least 3 bulk (log type) vessels loading at NZ ports at any given time, 2 off-shore oil rig supply vessels permanently based in NPL, plus agency and stevedore operations and multiple offices. Then you have the Cathay part of the business.....

Swire knows New Zealand very well and have been active here for well over 100 years


Oh.. Wow! didn't know any of that. Impressive.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:34 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
There is plenty of options for NZ with several JV partners they can hopefully get to cover or lease from, more so probably NW season.


Coming into the high season when every plane is packed? Good luck with that.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:55 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
They could I think use 2 Hi fly frames and 1 SQ 772 even if the next 2 789’s are delayed and 3 are still ground in NW, that’s 2 frames short of what they would of had. With a bit of re scheduling and also there are the A320/321NEO’s to be delivered with some current CEO’s remaining still.


There had been some talk of an 77E from BA too - at the end of the day I guess NZ will take anything they can get to help the issue. There will be allot of demand right now for spare widebody aircraft.


Someone mentioned a BA 744 bit it’s now coming to the peak NS I can’t see a carrier like BA leasing an aircraft out, possibly if NZ need something for the NW they might be able to.

There is plenty of options for NZ with several JV partners they can hopefully get to cover or lease from, more so probably NW season.


They're joint venture partners because it helps them make a buck and in some cases turns a competitive situation into a virtual monopoly. They're not necessarily best mates having each other's back- apart from the quasi monopoly.

As Mariner said good luck getting help in their peak season. Won't be a lot of spare planes lying around.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:13 am

mariner wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
There is plenty of options for NZ with several JV partners they can hopefully get to cover or lease from, more so probably NW season.


Coming into the high season when every plane is packed? Good luck with that.

mariner


I said NW, sure there is Christmas NY in the Northern hemisphere but overall being winter there international flying is reduced a little bar the few NZ/OZ and Africa South American routes where it’s summer.

NZ I’m sure will be working with some of their JV partners to allow NZ to free up capacity for other routes.


NTLDaz wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:

There had been some talk of an 77E from BA too - at the end of the day I guess NZ will take anything they can get to help the issue. There will be allot of demand right now for spare widebody aircraft.


Someone mentioned a BA 744 bit it’s now coming to the peak NS I can’t see a carrier like BA leasing an aircraft out, possibly if NZ need something for the NW they might be able to.

There is plenty of options for NZ with several JV partners they can hopefully get to cover or lease from, more so probably NW season.


They're joint venture partners because it helps them make a buck and in some cases turns a competitive situation into a virtual monopoly. They're not necessarily best mates having each other's back- apart from the quasi monopoly.

As Mariner said good luck getting help in their peak season. Won't be a lot of spare planes lying around.


I’m not sure I agree with that. NZ have worked closely with UA for a long time, SQ/NZ are fairly tight as are CX/NZ on the HKG route. Sure NZ/VA are splitting but tbh VA don’t have great relationships with their partners.
 
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mariner
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:28 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I said NW, sure there is Christmas NY in the Northern hemisphere but overall being winter there international flying is reduced a little bar the few NZ/OZ and Africa South American routes where it’s summer.


If by NW you mean Northern Winter, you're being more pessimistic than most. Most people believe the RR crisis with last until (our) spring but then be over:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/new ... d=12041757

"Air New Zealand Dreamliner disruption will stretch into spring"

Now, in our winter, is when NZ needs the aircraft.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:25 am

mariner wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I said NW, sure there is Christmas NY in the Northern hemisphere but overall being winter there international flying is reduced a little bar the few NZ/OZ and Africa South American routes where it’s summer.


If by NW you mean Northern Winter, you're being more pessimistic than most. Most people believe the RR crisis with last until (our) spring but then be over:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/new ... d=12041757

"Air New Zealand Dreamliner disruption will stretch into spring"

Now, in our winter, is when NZ needs the aircraft.

mariner


Hmm, we have no idea where in the que NZ’s engines are for repairs. Maybe the hearld does? Yes NZ needs aircraft now for sure, however and they will have some idea hopefully of when the grounded frames will be back in service and will be making arrangements with JV carriers particularly should these issues continue further than spring.
 
hornetfan
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:56 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:48 am

Anyone with first had feedback on them at all....thanks[/quote]
I know of one identical situation except the leg in question was PER-AKL. The upgrade simply disappeared and the leg was flown in Y.[/quote]

That happened to me back in January, that said I found the Y experience was fine, and the flight there and back very pleasant. I am not sure why people are so against HiFly.

Sent from my SM-T815Y using Tapatalk
 
aotearoa
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 1:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:21 am

Engines are continually cycled through a Rolls-Royce overhaul facility in Singapore. There is also a facility at RR in the UK, however due to proximity, all the ANZ engines head to Singapore.

They are removed from wing, then prepared for transport. Transport is direct to SIN on the SQ freighter. Turnaround time for the engine varies according to the work package. For a compressor section, this could be as little as a couple of weeks, however with time at each end, the wing to wing period could push out to 4 weeks or so.

Due to the current RR TRENT PACK C issues, there are a significant number of engines waiting to enter the overhaul facility. ANZ have a number of engines due back soon from SIN, so ZK-NZE should be back in the air by mid to late May.
 
DavidJ08
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:10 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Highly unlikely AKL or CHC will get anything regional from SQ, though CHC will be interesting as the 77E fleet reduces only it an IST get the long haul 772’s with 2-3 a day to Australia, PER/BNE atleast the rest fly regional now, they still have 8. The long haul A359 is quite a bit more premium as is the 77W.

My money would be on CHC getting the 359 as the 77E fleet is replaced. AKL will probably stay how it is now (77W winter, A380 summer) until a 77W replacement is underway.


As for the NZ woes, to be honest I wouldn't really expect to see a leased aircraft from another airline - for reasons like product differences and branding (brand image etc) I wouldn't have thought NZ would be that keen for, say, a 777 in SQ livery with SQ seats/IFE to be operating NZ flights; in fact I can't really see SQ being too keen on their own aircraft and branding to be on NZ services, either. Then there's the logistics - dry hire wouldn't really work as each airline's aircraft are pretty highly customized (from cabin/seats/IFE to galley configuration to small-but-not-insignificant cockpit differences) so crew (flight crew and cabin crew) wouldn't necessarily be able to operate interchangeably; wet-lease (ACMI) has its own problems - the first one I can think of is that (again using SQ as an example) the SQ crew would be on contracts stipulating that they are based in Singapore and will have family and personal lives there to attend to on their days off, so having an aircraft based in New Zealand for any period of time will present quite a logistical challenge (surmountable but expensive.) Plus regulatory red tape etc... So although a fun idea, I can't see any other-airline-branded aircraft operating for NZ. (Especially international bigwigs like SQ/CX/BA.)

Dry lease on an unbranded ex-other-airline aircraft also pose problems - again with configuration and crew not necessarily being able to operate interchangeably (without significant regulatory red tape and internal procedure/training stuff on it anyways.) Plus the cost of returning stored aircraft to service may not be worthwhile given the temporary nature of the disruption. Would probably work out more expensive than engaging a wet-lease operator - particularly if refitting is needed to have serviceable cabin equipment, or if additional crew training is needed.

It seems that right now NZ is just reshuffling their schedule to cover all services with their own equipment - and that might be all they need. Because of the ETOPS limitation with the current issue, the shuffling is inevitable anyways (the EZE service has now been rescheduled with 772 until late October) - unlike the last episode where 3 aircraft were on the ground but the rest could operate unrestricted. If they do need extra capacity, it would probably go on trans-Tasman (as it did before - freeing up NZ's own metal for long haul services where it's more important to deliver NZ's own product.) And they would likely go with a dedicated wet-lease operator (like Hi Fly) who are built for jobs like these - crew will be contracted to be deployed wherever (and that's exactly what they've signed up for) and aircraft are in generic livery and fully service-ready; the set-up costs would be lower and it's easily scalable - can get a second aircraft fairly easily, and I'd imagine the duration of deployment would be pretty flexible too.

PS: Yes, we have had a ThomsonFly 737-300 in NZ service back in 2007 - apparently to cover for heavy maintenance and delayed deliveries of two further acquisitions, presumably NGP and NGR which were delivered in 2008 - but keep in mind that ThomsonFly (now Tui Airways) is also a charter operator, so they'd be more like Hi Fly than, say, SQ.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3591
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:54 pm

Damn, was looking forward to my first NZ 789 experience to EZE in October. Hopefully the return in November will be as originally scheduled.
come visit the south pacific
 
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aerorobnz
Posts: 8310
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:16 pm

SQ A359s have been on the cards for CHC for ages, they were already supposed to have started on the original plan.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6971
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:07 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Highly unlikely AKL or CHC will get anything regional from SQ, though CHC will be interesting as the 77E fleet reduces only it an IST get the long haul 772’s with 2-3 a day to Australia, PER/BNE atleast the rest fly regional now, they still have 8. The long haul A359 is quite a bit more premium as is the 77W.

My money would be on CHC getting the 359 as the 77E fleet is replaced. AKL will probably stay how it is now (77W winter, A380 summer) until a 77W replacement is underway.


As for the NZ woes, to be honest I wouldn't really expect to see a leased aircraft from another airline - for reasons like product differences and branding (brand image etc) I wouldn't have thought NZ would be that keen for, say, a 777 in SQ livery with SQ seats/IFE to be operating NZ flights; in fact I can't really see SQ being too keen on their own aircraft and branding to be on NZ services, either. Then there's the logistics - dry hire wouldn't really work as each airline's aircraft are pretty highly customized (from cabin/seats/IFE to galley configuration to small-but-not-insignificant cockpit differences) so crew (flight crew and cabin crew) wouldn't necessarily be able to operate interchangeably; wet-lease (ACMI) has its own problems - the first one I can think of is that (again using SQ as an example) the SQ crew would be on contracts stipulating that they are based in Singapore and will have family and personal lives there to attend to on their days off, so having an aircraft based in New Zealand for any period of time will present quite a logistical challenge (surmountable but expensive.) Plus regulatory red tape etc... So although a fun idea, I can't see any other-airline-branded aircraft operating for NZ. (Especially international bigwigs like SQ/CX/BA.)

Dry lease on an unbranded ex-other-airline aircraft also pose problems - again with configuration and crew not necessarily being able to operate interchangeably (without significant regulatory red tape and internal procedure/training stuff on it anyways.) Plus the cost of returning stored aircraft to service may not be worthwhile given the temporary nature of the disruption. Would probably work out more expensive than engaging a wet-lease operator - particularly if refitting is needed to have serviceable cabin equipment, or if additional crew training is needed.

It seems that right now NZ is just reshuffling their schedule to cover all services with their own equipment - and that might be all they need. Because of the ETOPS limitation with the current issue, the shuffling is inevitable anyways (the EZE service has now been rescheduled with 772 until late October) - unlike the last episode where 3 aircraft were on the ground but the rest could operate unrestricted. If they do need extra capacity, it would probably go on trans-Tasman (as it did before - freeing up NZ's own metal for long haul services where it's more important to deliver NZ's own product.) And they would likely go with a dedicated wet-lease operator (like Hi Fly) who are built for jobs like these - crew will be contracted to be deployed wherever (and that's exactly what they've signed up for) and aircraft are in generic livery and fully service-ready; the set-up costs would be lower and it's easily scalable - can get a second aircraft fairly easily, and I'd imagine the duration of deployment would be pretty flexible too.

PS: Yes, we have had a ThomsonFly 737-300 in NZ service back in 2007 - apparently to cover for heavy maintenance and delayed deliveries of two further acquisitions, presumably NGP and NGR which were delivered in 2008 - but keep in mind that ThomsonFly (now Tui Airways) is also a charter operator, so they'd be more like Hi Fly than, say, SQ.



Hmm. We will see, yes there are obstacles but not insurmountable slot of them. An SQ 777 wouldn’t be based in AKL it would shuttle between AKL-SIN daily so even if it was SQ crew they would be SIN based still.



aerorobnz wrote:
SQ A359s have been on the cards for CHC for ages, they were already supposed to have started on the original plan.


I guess CHC doesn’t have the competition, and they launched routes like SIN-SFO with the A359 which originally they planned for the ULH birds until UA came in with a 789, they have also replaced several 77W flights. The A359 does seem like the most suitable aircraft SQ have to replace the 772 to CHC.
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2018

Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:14 am

New Zealand Aviation Thread May 2018 is now open for discussion, please continue to add your comments there

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