intothinair
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Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:07 pm

Interesting read:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-447192/

Outside of the destinations mentioned in the article, i can also imagine the following destinations:
- Ho Chi Minh
- Kuala Lumpur
- Manila
- Bali (Eurowings)
- Penang (Eurowings)

Let the discussions begin.
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:29 pm

Guangzhou, Kuala Lumpur and Manila must return! and another route that should return is Munich - Bangkok is another route with high demand, Lufthansa must regain its leadership in Southeast Asia
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
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vhtje
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:42 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Lufthansa must regain its leadership in Southeast Asia


What does that even mean? LH will never be the leading airline in SE Asia there are simply too many local airlines. Do you mean leading European airline in the region? Or the leading German airline?

But how are you defining “leading”? The number of destinations served? The number of passengers carried? Having industry-beating service standards in the region? Winning the most awards?

???
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SANFan
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 pm

I believe this is already under discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1390281

bb
 
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wolfsburg
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:53 am

For Lufthansa group as a whole, there is a lot of possibility as they have a few airlines with the capabilities in their hand.
Plenty of opportunities for Vienna / Zurich into Asia as well as Berlin. Berlin and Vienna are both having limited direct flight into Asia Pacific, and of course for other Germany cities other than FRA and MUC.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:58 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Guangzhou, Kuala Lumpur and Manila must return! and another route that should return is Munich - Bangkok is another route with high demand, Lufthansa must regain its leadership in Southeast Asia


Why “must”, if you’re comparing against European airlines then Finnair would have a few things to say about LH being the leading airline to Asia
 
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:02 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Guangzhou, Kuala Lumpur and Manila must return! and another route that should return is Munich - Bangkok is another route with high demand, Lufthansa must regain its leadership in Southeast Asia

...since when was LH the "leading" anything, to SE Asia??
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
stylo777
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:53 am

The economics of scales compared to the times all mentioned destinations were still served have surely improved, but is it to the level that a return will be profitable?
All flights make only sense as nonstops. Very long flights indeed, adding the need of additional aircraft to the equation. Btw. Which aircraft and do they have this aircraft available? I strongly doubt that.
The last what all saw was an 340.
OTOH we see destinations like CUN, MRU,PTY, SJO, CMB and one is wondering how CAN or KUL is not working out - really puzzling to me...
 
bunumuring
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:13 am

Hey guys,
If Qantas publicly feels it can make a go of nonstop Australia-Germany flights at some point in the next few years (probably with the second tranche of Dreamliners arriving), I'm sure that Lufthansa would be looking closely at their business case for flights likewise. Perhaps some of their A350 order could be -ULRs (or whatever Airbus are planning for the Project Sunrise submission to QF) or the 777-9 order modified to include some -8s (or whatever Boeing has in mind for Project Sunrise) specifically for flights to Australia.
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flee
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:16 am

stylo777 wrote:
one is wondering how CAN or KUL is not working out - really puzzling to me...

When LH last operated into KUL, it did not have the right equipment - A343/346 were used. They mentioned that once they have the A350, they will study the possibilities again.

Do note that another airline, Condor, are planning a thrice-weekly Frankfurt-Kuala Lumpur route from 5 November 2018. So I am not sure how this will pan out for LH as demand on this route is lukewarm, at best. From KUL, the routes with the most traffic would appear to be KUL-LHR and KUL-AMS.
 
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:29 am

Equipment aside, still, it's hard to believe that atleast CAN and KUL (somehow power-cities in Asia) can't sustain a daily nonstop to Europe with plenty of connection options compares to the likes of San Jose, Costa Rica or Panama City.

LH is in a stronger position now compared to the times those cities were served. A350 is surely an option, but all are based in MUC ufn. The 333's from FRA won't make it for range issues. 346's are almost gone, narrowing it down to 343's - depreciated old birds with small business, rather good premium eco and something around 180-220 eco seats.
On a negative side I have to admit that multiple daily 777to380s by ME3 as well as the strict nightcurfew in FRA don't help to drive a positive business case.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:10 am

Grapevine, KUL will return as EW's operation. It has been in plan for some time, but has not materilised yet. Operation is just too high to justify KUL using mainline service, previously yanked due to tag-on to CGK.
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idp5601
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:30 am

I could see LH to MNL in the near future; it was mentioned last year that they were interested in restarting FRA-MNL.

http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php ... &id=147807
 
columba
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:08 am

Maybe with the A350 they have finally the right airplane to serve these destinations.........not too big, enough range and very efficient.
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AirbusA322
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:01 am

BA’s SYD tag on must be fairly marginal as I thought LH would have done the same. Even Finnair and there are others too. The SYD-SIN market is fairly busy obviously not wanting to take part in Australia-Europe fare wars.
 
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:02 am

To the return to SE Asia to cities like CGK, KUL etc in the future. I wish one of them will be operated by Eurowings or other Lufthansa Group airline.
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RainerBoeing777
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:02 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Guangzhou, Kuala Lumpur and Manila must return! and another route that should return is Munich - Bangkok is another route with high demand, Lufthansa must regain its leadership in Southeast Asia

...since when was LH the "leading" anything, to SE Asia??


Lufthansa had a strong network of destinations in Southeast Asia, Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi, Jakarta, Manila, Kuala Lumpur from Frankfurt and from Munich to Bangkok and Singapore, and most of these routes were operated by Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A340 -600 had more destinations than any other airline in Europe, of course they were the leading airline of Southeast Asia in Europe, Lufthansa is a very strong airline in North America, Latin America, India, China, North Asia, Africa, even strong in the Middle East, because they neglected so much that region having two great companions like Thai Airways and Singapore Airlines
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:15 pm

Obzerva wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Guangzhou, Kuala Lumpur and Manila must return! and another route that should return is Munich - Bangkok is another route with high demand, Lufthansa must regain its leadership in Southeast Asia


Why “must”, if you’re comparing against European airlines then Finnair would have a few things to say about LH being the leading airline to Asia


Guangzhou is the third largest financial center of all China -.- and both China and Germany have a pretty strong economy, Lufthansa flies from PVG and PEK with Airbus A380 and Boeing 747, and Air China with Boeing 747 and Boeing 777, plus Air China flies from secondary cities such as Shenzhen and Chengdu, obviously they must return to Guangzhou! , Kuala Lumpur the same way the KUL-FRA route became one of the most profitable routes of Malaysia Airlines, both leisure and business are considerable on this route and since the events of the MH370 and MH17 many airlines were leaving KUL, Manila with the economic growth that Philippines has until the same Philippines Airlines is looking for new destinations in Europe such as Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt clear that you can return to these markets, the serious problem that Lufthansa had in this area was the use of the deficient A340 in most of its routes, at least KLM in most of its Southeast Asian routes are operated by Boeing 777-200ER / 300ER aircraft more efficient to have a higher profitability
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
dcajet
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:37 pm

Most of the cities named here that have lost LH service are from a time when aircraft did not have the range to offer non stop service from Germany, so the airlines took advantage of a number of traffic rights freedoms to serve these cities. Fast forward to today, when aircraft have a much greater range that afford airlines the opportunity to offer their clients what they want: fast, non stop service. Most of the cities named here: SGN, MNL, KUL, etc. simply do not have enough high yielding traffic for LH to consider flying to them. The same happened in South America: in the 70s LH used to serve SCL, LIM, LPB, UIO, MVD, etc. All gone. Only the ones that can support profitable non stop flying from Germany remain: BOG, EZE, GIG & GRU.
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klakzky123
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:59 pm

dcajet wrote:
Most of the cities named here that have lost LH service are from a time when aircraft did not have the range to offer non stop service from Germany, so the airlines took advantage of a number of traffic rights freedoms to serve these cities. Fast forward to today, when aircraft have a much greater range that afford airlines the opportunity to offer their clients what they want: fast, non stop service. Most of the cities named here: SGN, MNL, KUL, etc. simply do not have enough high yielding traffic for LH to consider flying to them. The same happened in South America: in the 70s LH used to serve SCL, LIM, LPB, UIO, MVD, etc. All gone. Only the ones that can support profitable non stop flying from Germany remain: BOG, EZE, GIG & GRU.


The other thing to note is that airlines didn't have joint ventures back then. Today, LH has a JV with Air China, ANA and Singapore Airlines. They have solid partnerships in the region that alleviate the need to fly to all of those cities. The partnerships provide coverage to most of East and Southeast Asia.
 
dcajet
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:13 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Most of the cities named here that have lost LH service are from a time when aircraft did not have the range to offer non stop service from Germany, so the airlines took advantage of a number of traffic rights freedoms to serve these cities. Fast forward to today, when aircraft have a much greater range that afford airlines the opportunity to offer their clients what they want: fast, non stop service. Most of the cities named here: SGN, MNL, KUL, etc. simply do not have enough high yielding traffic for LH to consider flying to them. The same happened in South America: in the 70s LH used to serve SCL, LIM, LPB, UIO, MVD, etc. All gone. Only the ones that can support profitable non stop flying from Germany remain: BOG, EZE, GIG & GRU.


The other thing to note is that airlines didn't have joint ventures back then. Today, LH has a JV with Air China, ANA and Singapore Airlines. They have solid partnerships in the region that alleviate the need to fly to all of those cities. The partnerships provide coverage to most of East and Southeast Asia.


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Jetty
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:35 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Lufthansa had a strong network of destinations in Southeast Asia, Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi, Jakarta, Manila, Kuala Lumpur from Frankfurt and from Munich to Bangkok and Singapore, and most of these routes were operated by Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A340 -600 had more destinations than any other airline in Europe, of course they were the leading airline of Southeast Asia in Europe

There hasn't been that much difference with BA/AF/KL in that regard. All of them once flew to the destinations you mentioned, and more. A strong network, definitely. But not 'leading' by any means.
 
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DominikR83
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:38 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
another route that should return is Munich - Bangkok is another route with high demand

TG has already daily service MUC-BKK on B747. I`m nut sure wether there is enough demand for second daily flight on LH.
 
330lover
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:12 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Guangzhou, Kuala Lumpur and Manila must return! and another route that should return is Munich - Bangkok is another route with high demand, Lufthansa must regain its leadership in Southeast Asia


Why “must”, if you’re comparing against European airlines then Finnair would have a few things to say about LH being the leading airline to Asia


Guangzhou is the third largest financial center of all China -.- and both China and Germany have a pretty strong economy, Lufthansa flies from PVG and PEK with Airbus A380 and Boeing 747, and Air China with Boeing 747 and Boeing 777, plus Air China flies from secondary cities such as Shenzhen and Chengdu, obviously they must return to Guangzhou! , Kuala Lumpur the same way the KUL-FRA route became one of the most profitable routes of Malaysia Airlines, both leisure and business are considerable on this route and since the events of the MH370 and MH17 many airlines were leaving KUL, Manila with the economic growth that Philippines has until the same Philippines Airlines is looking for new destinations in Europe such as Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt clear that you can return to these markets, the serious problem that Lufthansa had in this area was the use of the deficient A340 in most of its routes, at least KLM in most of its Southeast Asian routes are operated by Boeing 777-200ER / 300ER aircraft more efficient to have a higher profitability


The discussion of flying to both CAN and HKG...
Those destinations are close to each other, with efficient land and water connections, and both also serve the big business area of Shenzhen in between.
I think that, if LH would launch CAN flights, this would take away lucrative business from their HKG operations.
Just my idea...
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bzcat
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:52 pm

Surely TPE is on their radar?

VIE-TPE has plenty of capacity but FRA could probably use more seats and MUC probably can sustain service as well. Additional service can only be added from the German side as the flight allocation from the Taiwan side is already used by CI.
 
Cunard
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:29 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Guangzhou, Kuala Lumpur and Manila must return! and another route that should return is Munich - Bangkok is another route with high demand, Lufthansa must regain its leadership in Southeast Asia

...since when was LH the "leading" anything, to SE Asia??


Lufthansa had a strong network of destinations in Southeast Asia, Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi, Jakarta, Manila, Kuala Lumpur from Frankfurt and from Munich to Bangkok and Singapore, and most of these routes were operated by Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A340 -600 had more destinations than any other airline in Europe, of course they were the leading airline of Southeast Asia in Europe, Lufthansa is a very strong airline in North America, Latin America, India, China, North Asia, Africa, even strong in the Middle East, because they neglected so much that region having two great companions like Thai Airways and Singapore Airlines


With regards to the airports in SE Asia that you have mentioned that were previously served by Lufthansa I think that in the past British Airways had flights to more destinations in SE Asia.

Previously British Airways flew to Bandar Seri Begawan, Jakarta, Manila, Nagoya, Osaka, Sapporo, Taipei and until recently Chengdu.

Currently British Airways fly to Bangkok, Beijing, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumper, Seoul, Shanghai, Singapore, Tokyo.
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ryu2
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:10 am

330lover wrote:
The discussion of flying to both CAN and HKG...
Those destinations are close to each other, with efficient land and water connections, and both also serve the big business area of Shenzhen in between.
I think that, if LH would launch CAN flights, this would take away lucrative business from their HKG operations.
Just my idea...


This is a huge geographical area that can support multiple airports. Just like LH serve both JFK and EWR, or SFO and SJC or LHR, LCY, and LGW.
 
69bug
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:28 am

LH has usually been the choice for business travellers, sad to say there is not much demand to/from Kuala Lumpur.. at least not enough to fill a 4x weekly flights.

The ME3 is also a big factor. Take Emirates as an example.. they fly 3x a day ex-KUL and they fly to 4 cites in Germany.. FRA (3x day), MUC(3x day), DUS(2x day) and HAM(2x day). Apart from pricing.. this gives a lot of flexibility to the business traveller compared to LH which used to fly 4 x week!

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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:38 am

330lover wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Obzerva wrote:

Why “must”, if you’re comparing against European airlines then Finnair would have a few things to say about LH being the leading airline to Asia


Guangzhou is the third largest financial center of all China -.- and both China and Germany have a pretty strong economy, Lufthansa flies from PVG and PEK with Airbus A380 and Boeing 747, and Air China with Boeing 747 and Boeing 777, plus Air China flies from secondary cities such as Shenzhen and Chengdu, obviously they must return to Guangzhou! , Kuala Lumpur the same way the KUL-FRA route became one of the most profitable routes of Malaysia Airlines, both leisure and business are considerable on this route and since the events of the MH370 and MH17 many airlines were leaving KUL, Manila with the economic growth that Philippines has until the same Philippines Airlines is looking for new destinations in Europe such as Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt clear that you can return to these markets, the serious problem that Lufthansa had in this area was the use of the deficient A340 in most of its routes, at least KLM in most of its Southeast Asian routes are operated by Boeing 777-200ER / 300ER aircraft more efficient to have a higher profitability


The discussion of flying to both CAN and HKG...
Those destinations are close to each other, with efficient land and water connections, and both also serve the big business area of Shenzhen in between.
I think that, if LH would launch CAN flights, this would take away lucrative business from their HKG operations.
Just my idea...


CAN and HKG do not overlap!
 
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 am

LH Group will test the waters to SGN with Edelweiss starting ops in the Winter Timetable ex ZRH. I don't expect any of the mainline affiliates to open up shop in SGN until WK has succeeded to operate more than just profitable... ;)
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planemanofnz
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:40 am

LH to PER on a MUC-based 359 (via FRA) would be an interesting proposition, particularly if they could beat QF to it (who are considering it).

There are huge business ties between Australia and Germany, as well as tourism ties involving New Zealand too. NZ (and VA) feed may help.

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trent768
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:33 am

I think that if LH wants to return to Asean, they should do it with their own metal (or Jump) instead of using EW brand. LH is a pretty well known brand in Asean, especially amongst the higher yielding market (e.g businessman, academia, expats, government officials, etc.). Keep in mind that LH still counts as a 'prestigious' airlines for us and many people will spend money exclusively on these 'prestigious' airlines just to keep their social status, which somehow is a real thing for the wealthy older generation and it is also the reason why SQ is so popular amongst the wealthy in Asean. Tons of Indonesians fly exclusively on SQ's F, that's why CGK is the only Asean destinations with regular F service. So the market is definitely there.
 
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:37 am

I wonder if LH might look at FRA - FUK and operate it 4 times a week on the days AY don't so to provide a daily connection from western Japan to Europe.
 
330lover
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:54 am

ryu2 wrote:
330lover wrote:
The discussion of flying to both CAN and HKG...
Those destinations are close to each other, with efficient land and water connections, and both also serve the big business area of Shenzhen in between.
I think that, if LH would launch CAN flights, this would take away lucrative business from their HKG operations.
Just my idea...


This is a huge geographical area that can support multiple airports. Just like LH serve both JFK and EWR, or SFO and SJC or LHR, LCY, and LGW.



Good point!
But didn't LH serve CAN in the past and IIRC they withdraw it just becaust it took away too much from their HKG flights.
Or was that another airline?

But then again, that was some years ago, maybe now, it could sustain both...
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Flying Belgian
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:40 am

Cunard wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
...since when was LH the "leading" anything, to SE Asia??


Previously British Airways flew to Bandar Seri Begawan, Jakarta, Manila, Nagoya, Osaka, Sapporo, Taipei and until recently Chengdu.

Currently British Airways fly to Bangkok, Beijing, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Seoul, Shanghai, Singapore, Tokyo.



That must be a pretty hard decision for LH. They've previously dropped cities like CGK, KUL, MNL due to poor yields at a time when ME3 littrealy attacked the German markets. ME3 have hardly hit carriers like BA, AF or LH on "secondary" asian destinations. I'm already surprised to see that BA can sustain a KUL flight. I assume it's purely 787 economics driven...

I only see EW starting soon KUL to attract tourists that will connect in Sepang to another destination in S-E Asia (Air Asia, Malindo, ...) or Australasia. It's a no-brainer for EW, like BKK. But I highly doubt that LH would venture again there.

The only carrier maintaining a good presence in secondary asian markets is KLM.
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B-HOP
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:54 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Equipment aside, still, it's hard to believe that atleast CAN and KUL (somehow power-cities in Asia) can't sustain a daily nonstop to Europe with plenty of connection options compares to the likes of San Jose, Costa Rica or Panama City.

LH is in a stronger position now compared to the times those cities were served. A350 is surely an option, but all are based in MUC ufn. The 333's from FRA won't make it for range issues. 346's are almost gone, narrowing it down to 343's - depreciated old birds with small business, rather good premium eco and something around 180-220 eco seats.
On a negative side I have to admit that multiple daily 777to380s by ME3 as well as the strict nightcurfew in FRA don't help to drive a positive business case.


I don't know what is the MTOW for LH's A333, CZ uses A333 every night CAN to AMS, I am sure the distance are similar if it is to FRA, alternatively, would CityLine type 340 operation be suitable. Meanwhile, BA manage to sustain KUL because there are traditional colonial link between UK and Malaysia, economies of 789 helps too.

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stylo777
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:28 pm

The current longest LH 333 flight is probably MUC-DEN which falls almost 500nm short of a FRA-CAN. KUL and CGK are even considerably longer; therefore, the 333 is not a real alternative whereas the refitted 343's surely are.
 
Cunard
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:53 am

ryu2 wrote:
330lover wrote:
The discussion of flying to both CAN and HKG...
Those destinations are close to each other, with efficient land and water connections, and both also serve the big business area of Shenzhen in between.
I think that, if LH would launch CAN flights, this would take away lucrative business from their HKG operations.
Just my idea...


This is a huge geographical area that can support multiple airports. Just like LH serve both JFK and EWR, or SFO and SJC or LHR, LCY, and LGW.


FYI LH don't fly to LGW, their FRA flight was discontinued over four years ago.
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:02 am

Flying Belgian wrote:
That must be a pretty hard decision for LH. They've previously dropped cities like CGK, KUL, MNL due to poor yields at a time when ME3 littrealy attacked the German markets. ME3 have hardly hit carriers like BA, AF or LH on "secondary" asian destinations. I'm already surprised to see that BA can sustain a KUL flight. I assume it's purely 787 economics driven...


It's also contributed by the high O&D traffic between KUL & LHR. There's a large Malaysian diaspora in the UK thanks to the old Commonwealth ties.

I'd think BA's yields might even be improved now that MH's withdrawn the A380s from that route.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
Jetter330
Posts: 39
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:15 am

Spohr recently also expressed that Africa was the next continent to be expanded upon. It was looking bright for SN to finally open new African destinations but the only expansion they received is long haul operations out of DUS. If they don’t watch out others will start filling the gaps out of BRU.
 
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idp5601
Posts: 196
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:27 am

trent768 wrote:
Tons of Indonesians fly exclusively on SQ's F, that's why CGK is the only Asean destinations with regular F service. So the market is definitely there.

Not exactly accurate. MNL gets regular F service daily, and if I'm not mistaken, BKK gets a few F-equipped planes a week as well, although not as frequent as MNL or CGK.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:32 am

Jetter330 wrote:
Spohr recently also expressed that Africa was the next continent to be expanded upon. It was looking bright for SN to finally open new African destinations but the only expansion they received is long haul operations out of DUS. If they don’t watch out others will start filling the gaps out of BRU.


The SN African destinations are separate from the DUS ops. LH recently added destinations like NBO, they separated or will do so, the FRA JED ADD flight, flying FRA ADD N/S which means that they will have additional capacity to connect with ET
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Jetter330
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:07 am

PanHAM wrote:
Jetter330 wrote:
Spohr recently also expressed that Africa was the next continent to be expanded upon. It was looking bright for SN to finally open new African destinations but the only expansion they received is long haul operations out of DUS. If they don’t watch out others will start filling the gaps out of BRU.


The SN African destinations are separate from the DUS ops. LH recently added destinations like NBO, they separated or will do so, the FRA JED ADD flight, flying FRA ADD N/S which means that they will have additional capacity to connect with ET


LH acquired SN for Africa but isn’t doing a lot with it. There are still a lot of unserved destinations compared to AF.
 
airbazar
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:05 pm

Jetty wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Lufthansa had a strong network of destinations in Southeast Asia, Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi, Jakarta, Manila, Kuala Lumpur from Frankfurt and from Munich to Bangkok and Singapore, and most of these routes were operated by Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A340 -600 had more destinations than any other airline in Europe, of course they were the leading airline of Southeast Asia in Europe

There hasn't been that much difference with BA/AF/KL in that regard. All of them once flew to the destinations you mentioned, and more. A strong network, definitely. But not 'leading' by any means.

Then what is your definition of "leading"?
I'd say the airline with the most routes and seats should be considered the leader in the market, no?
 
Jetty
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:26 pm

airbazar wrote:
Jetty wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:

There hasn't been that much difference with BA/AF/KL in that regard. All of them once flew to the destinations you mentioned, and more. A strong network, definitely. But not 'leading' by any means.

Then what is your definition of "leading"?
I'd say the airline with the most routes and seats should be considered the leader in the market, no?

When would you say that happened?

I’d say the leader of a market should clearly stand out. Thus there can be markets without a leader.
 
Jetty
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:28 pm

Jetter330 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
Jetter330 wrote:
Spohr recently also expressed that Africa was the next continent to be expanded upon. It was looking bright for SN to finally open new African destinations but the only expansion they received is long haul operations out of DUS. If they don’t watch out others will start filling the gaps out of BRU.


The SN African destinations are separate from the DUS ops. LH recently added destinations like NBO, they separated or will do so, the FRA JED ADD flight, flying FRA ADD N/S which means that they will have additional capacity to connect with ET


LH acquired SN for Africa but isn’t doing a lot with it. There are still a lot of unserved destinations compared to AF.

LH is astablishing a long haul center of excellence at SN, that’s quite a lot imo. Although they’ve still got to start with acquiring some excellent planes.
 
iadadd
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:02 pm

CAN seems like a glaring hole in their network, then KUL or SGN. MNL is notoriously low yielding, unless they plan on using for Eurowings for that service there is no way they can compete with the heavy ME3 service plus heavy VFR nature of the market.
 
Jetter330
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:04 pm

Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:52 pm

Jetty wrote:
Jetter330 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:

The SN African destinations are separate from the DUS ops. LH recently added destinations like NBO, they separated or will do so, the FRA JED ADD flight, flying FRA ADD N/S which means that they will have additional capacity to connect with ET


LH acquired SN for Africa but isn’t doing a lot with it. There are still a lot of unserved destinations compared to AF.

LH is astablishing a long haul center of excellence at SN, that’s quite a lot imo. Although they’ve still got to start with acquiring some excellent planes.


In your opinion, what do you understand under “long haul center of excellence”? By the way it’s for the EW-Group. I see it as a way to help out EW in their long haul ops by hiring German crew, offer them a Belgian contract where they earn less then by giving them a German contract. Or a way to bypass the German unions...
 
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idp5601
Posts: 196
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Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:26 pm

iadadd wrote:
CAN seems like a glaring hole in their network, then KUL or SGN. MNL is notoriously low yielding, unless they plan on using for Eurowings for that service there is no way they can compete with the heavy ME3 service plus heavy VFR nature of the market.

They could always use the Jump A343s for MNL/SGN, and then switch to LH mainline if the loads improve

And SGN is just as low-yielding and VFR-heavy as MNL. Let's not forget that LH pulled out of SGN fairly recently (right around the time the Vietnamese economy started picking up), unlike MNL, which last saw LH metal nine years ago (when the financial situation wasn't looking great for the Philippines).
 
stylo777
Posts: 2745
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Lufthansa looking to expand in Asia Pacific

Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:22 pm

What about TPE?
Non LHG carrier currently serves the Taiwanese capital and even more surprisingly their Star partner EVA Air does have only VIE in the network.
An ideal 350 route ex MUC with onward connections and cargo movement on both ends!

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