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jfklganyc
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AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:50 pm

Looks like they are going to give B6 a run for their money.
[quote][/quote]
https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2018-04- ... tle-flight
 
tphuang
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:01 pm

A couple of interesting things here.
1) no reduction in other services from what I can see and the times don't appear to be really off peak hours, so either JFK slots are really easy to obtain or they got it from someone.
2) strong move on JFK-SEA. The 3rd daily appears to be only for summer, but they have at least comparable schedule to B6 and better one than AA. My guess is AA is going to get pushed out in a year.
3) I have no idea how JFK-SJC is going to work. EWR-SJC is one of their worst TCON routes. B6 was probably loosing money on JFK-SJC when they were the only one on it and now there are 3 airlines. This is going to be a huge money loosing route for everyone.
4) If they really could get slot for SJC, why didn't they first add JFK-SAN? That's a much higher yielding route historically.
 
commavia
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:05 pm

tphuang wrote:
2) strong move on JFK-SEA. The 3rd daily appears to be only for summer, but they have at least comparable schedule to B6 and better one than AA. My guess is AA is going to get pushed out in a year.


Not sure how, objectively, we can say that Alaska's schedule between JFK and SEA is "better" than AA's - both schedules seem competitive, and better than JetBlue.

I highly doubt AA will be "pushed out" of the JFK-SEA market in "a year." But then, of course, I do recognize that doom and gloom regarding AA in NYC is pretty much de rigueur here on A.net these days. :roll:
 
iyerhari
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:06 pm

JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

B6 BOS-SJC LF: 81.30% (it's pretty good and they have been flying solo on this route. Knock knock DL :))
B6 JFK-SJC LF: 84.56% (this is not a Mint route). AS sees an opportunity here and comparatively a standard B6 product to poach and chase.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:21 pm

iyerhari wrote:
JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

If onboard food & bev are elevated from standard F fare on AS and the price is right, I know that I would be only too happy to give them a try.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:36 pm

AS has expanded so much out of SJC that I'm sure the growing Mileage Plan/AS Visa customer base is there to support this new route. I think they're both sustainable...great connection opportunities out of either as well as point-to-point. And would love to see SAN added...maybe in the fall?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:45 pm

The SJC and the additional SEA flight provides the optimal connection opportunities to many TATL routes out of JFK, including being right next to BA. It will be interesting to see what happens. SJC-EWR is most likely O&D. I wouldn't be too surprised if SJC-EWR discontinues if LF's on that route continue to suffer.
 
DDR
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:47 pm

iyerhari wrote:
JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

B6 BOS-SJC LF: 81.30% (it's pretty good and they have been flying solo on this route. Knock knock DL :))
B6 JFK-SJC LF: 84.56% (this is not a Mint route). AS sees an opportunity here and comparatively a standard B6 product to poach and chase.


So how long until JFK-SJC does become a Mint route?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:49 pm

I’m surprised that the SEA flight is on Airbus metal rather than a B739 that their red eye runs on. Also surprised to see SJC before SAN, although SAN is available from Newark. With the timing of flights though, it’s clear that they’re targeting connections at T7 at JFK and not just O&D, especially with a higher yield SJC flight. There, I suspect that an SFO flight could move to SJC.
Last edited by aemoreira1981 on Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:50 pm

tphuang wrote:
I have no idea how JFK-SJC is going to work.


JFKSJC is really more about locking down the Bay Area as a whole, complementing SFO, not competing with it. I'd imagine we'll see JFKSAN in the not-too-distant future as well.
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FA9295
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:02 pm

Didn't Delta just recently add JFK-SJC?
 
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FA9295
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:05 pm

DDR wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

B6 BOS-SJC LF: 81.30% (it's pretty good and they have been flying solo on this route. Knock knock DL :))
B6 JFK-SJC LF: 84.56% (this is not a Mint route). AS sees an opportunity here and comparatively a standard B6 product to poach and chase.


So how long until JFK-SJC does become a Mint route?

I'm pretty sure that's in B6's near future. With that being said, some people on this thread have stated that B6 has not been performing very well on their JFK-SJC route. I'm not really sure as to why they would think that, though. If the route was under-performing, they would not be operating it (would have ended it a long time ago).
 
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:06 pm

All my yacking for the last week or 2 about JFK and a new nonstop transcon.... What a shock; call me baffled and disappointed with Alaska. But that's just me.

Plus, both of these new flights are prime (west coast) timing -- early morning w/c departures and evening returns, using valuable JFK slots I assume. No red-eye nonsense.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

bb
 
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FA9295
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:07 pm

I wonder if AS will soon make their PDX-JFK route a early morning departure. The red-eye flight is a pain to have to deal with, and a early morning flight schedule would be much preferred in my opinion. Plus B6 and DL both already operate red-eye PDX-JFK flights.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:09 pm

GSPSPOT wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

If onboard food & bev are elevated from standard F fare on AS and the price is right, I know that I would be only too happy to give them a try.


Does AS differentiate catering on JFK transcons the way AA/DL//B6/UA(EWR) do?
 
stlgph
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:20 pm

Nice add on Seattle! Been looking at a trip out there - easy to snag a ticket between $200 to $250 out of JFK and happy to see that Alaska is stepping up the departure options.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:39 pm

Gotta pay for that new sign somehow. Lol.

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wedgetail737
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:46 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I wonder if AS will soon make their PDX-JFK route a early morning departure. The red-eye flight is a pain to have to deal with, and a early morning flight schedule would be much preferred in my opinion. Plus B6 and DL both already operate red-eye PDX-JFK flights.


I'm sure that would happen if AS can get the slots. The same would be true for SAN. But it's good to see AS make moves to the NYC area.

A little off the subject but I'm hoping AS will also jump on SAN-DCA if and when beyond-perimeter slots open up.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:54 pm

B6 has been sitting on OAK/SJC-JFK monopolies for a decade+, never doing anything other than red eyes. Nice to see they're getting some competition.
 
iflykpdx
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:01 pm

Surprised we didn't see AS launch SJC-BOS before JFK. At least then they'd only have B6 as competition vs DL/B6. A non-redeye to BOS would be welcome.
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PlanesNTrains
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:02 pm

iflykpdx wrote:
Surprised we didn't see AS launch SJC-BOS before JFK. At least then they'd only have B6 as competition vs DL/B6. A non-redeye to BOS would be welcome.


I’m sure as more planes come online that may happen. For now, they look to be growing New York.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:19 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Didn't Delta just recently add JFK-SJC?


Yes, begins June 8th.
 
vadodara
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:19 pm

How much is the incremental transfer traffic to international partners?
 
OKCDCA
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:23 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I’m surprised that the SEA flight is on Airbus metal rather than a B739 that their red eye runs on. Also surprised to see SJC before SAN, although SAN is available from Newark. With the timing of flights though, it’s clear that they’re targeting connections at T7 at JFK and not just O&D, especially with a higher yield SJC flight. There, I suspect that an SFO flight could move to SJC.

I agree this is interesting. They've made it very clear the Airbus fleet would be moving off the transcons and doing more North/South flights. Maybe somebody with some more knowledge on the situation can explain...
 
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:30 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
They've made it very clear the Airbus fleet would be moving off the transcons and doing more North/South flights. Maybe somebody with some more knowledge on the situation can explain...

It strikes me that the VX first class seats would be absurd on the short N/S flights, perhaps the change will be more pronounced once Airbus interiors start getting swapped out this fall.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:32 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
I’m surprised that the SEA flight is on Airbus metal rather than a B739 that their red eye runs on. Also surprised to see SJC before SAN, although SAN is available from Newark. With the timing of flights though, it’s clear that they’re targeting connections at T7 at JFK and not just O&D, especially with a higher yield SJC flight. There, I suspect that an SFO flight could move to SJC.

I agree this is interesting. They've made it very clear the Airbus fleet would be moving off the transcons and doing more North/South flights. Maybe somebody with some more knowledge on the situation can explain...


Well we have some schedule reductions and discontinuations out of SFO and some out of LAX. Maybe that's going to free up some VX flying resources for these new flights.
 
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:38 pm

As a side note, is there a way of forcing the forum search mechanism to look for capitalization? I look for AS, and get every instance of "as," which makes for a useless search.
 
AirFiero
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:48 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
AS has expanded so much out of SJC that I'm sure the growing Mileage Plan/AS Visa customer base is there to support this new route. I think they're both sustainable...great connection opportunities out of either as well as point-to-point. And would love to see SAN added...maybe in the fall?


People have been driving past SJC to get to SFO for decades. Maybe just enough will take the First Street exit to fill a few flights at SJC?
 
AirFiero
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:51 pm

SANFan wrote:
All my yacking for the last week or 2 about JFK and a new nonstop transcon.... What a shock; call me baffled and disappointed with Alaska. But that's just me.

Plus, both of these new flights are prime (west coast) timing -- early morning w/c departures and evening returns, using valuable JFK slots I assume. No red-eye nonsense.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

bb


How many flights and airlines currently on SAN-JFK?

How many flights on how many airlines fly SFO-JFK? How many people are closer to SJC?

Also, the bay area is a different market from SAN. It is probably not realistic to try to compare them directly.
 
tphuang
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:54 pm

FA9295 wrote:
DDR wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

B6 BOS-SJC LF: 81.30% (it's pretty good and they have been flying solo on this route. Knock knock DL :))
B6 JFK-SJC LF: 84.56% (this is not a Mint route). AS sees an opportunity here and comparatively a standard B6 product to poach and chase.


So how long until JFK-SJC does become a Mint route?

I'm pretty sure that's in B6's near future. With that being said, some people on this thread have stated that B6 has not been performing very well on their JFK-SJC route. I'm not really sure as to why they would think that, though. If the route was under-performing, they would not be operating it (would have ended it a long time ago).


JFK-SJC has about the second lowest fare numbers amongst B6 transcon out of JFK (with only SEA worse) and that was before there was any competition. Now there are 3 carriers. There are going to be some terrible numbers coming out later this year. Not getting mint imo.

EWR-SJC is AS's lowest yielding EWR transcon (one of the worst system wide). You can see why I think this JFK-SJC flight isn't going to do well.

JFK-SAN even with the flat bed competition should be a higher yielding route.

AS has expanded so much out of SJC that I'm sure the growing Mileage Plan/AS Visa customer base is there to support this new route. I think they're both sustainable...great connection opportunities out of either as well as point-to-point. And would love to see SAN added...maybe in the fall?

you do realize SJC is a very low yielding station for AS, right?

GSPSPOT wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

If onboard food & bev are elevated from standard F fare on AS and the price is right, I know that I would be only too happy to give them a try.


Here is thing. On most routes, mint and AS F pricing are about the same unless you are an AS elite ff.
 
SonaSounds
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:12 pm

AirFiero wrote:
SANFan wrote:
All my yacking for the last week or 2 about JFK and a new nonstop transcon.... What a shock; call me baffled and disappointed with Alaska. But that's just me.

Plus, both of these new flights are prime (west coast) timing -- early morning w/c departures and evening returns, using valuable JFK slots I assume. No red-eye nonsense.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

bb


How many flights and airlines currently on SAN-JFK?

How many flights on how many airlines fly SFO-JFK? How many people are closer to SJC?

Also, the bay area is a different market from SAN. It is probably not realistic to try to compare them directly.


For July 2018...

SFO has ~41 flights a day to JFK/EWR

SAN has ~14 flights a day to JFK/EWR

SJC has ~4 flights a day to JFK/EWR


SJC should easily be able to support more than 4 flights a day if they can convince the millions of people that live closer to SJC than SFO to fly SJC.
 
AirFiero
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:13 pm

SonaSounds wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
SANFan wrote:
All my yacking for the last week or 2 about JFK and a new nonstop transcon.... What a shock; call me baffled and disappointed with Alaska. But that's just me.

Plus, both of these new flights are prime (west coast) timing -- early morning w/c departures and evening returns, using valuable JFK slots I assume. No red-eye nonsense.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

bb


How many flights and airlines currently on SAN-JFK?

How many flights on how many airlines fly SFO-JFK? How many people are closer to SJC?

Also, the bay area is a different market from SAN. It is probably not realistic to try to compare them directly.


For July 2018...

SFO has ~41 flights a day to JFK/EWR

SAN has ~14 flights a day to JFK/EWR

SJC has ~4 flights a day to JFK/EWR


SJC should easily be able to support more than 4 flights a day if they can convince the millions of people that live closer to SJC than SFO to fly SJC.


Thank you for the numbers. There seems to be plenty of opportunity at SJC to fill the few flights in question.
 
berari
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:16 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Looks like they are going to give B6 a run for their money.

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2018-04- ... tle-flight


Much ado about nothing. Why pick on the one airline that has the lowest number of frequency on the route when AA flies 3x and DL flies 6x per day?

B6 still provides a boutique service on the SEA-JFK run, granted not the best performing route for B6 (it has maintained a single daily rotation since forever.) It does offer a better product than AS, and if flying overnight out of SEA, and if fares are similar, the choice is clear.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
DDR wrote:

So how long until JFK-SJC does become a Mint route?

I'm pretty sure that's in B6's near future. With that being said, some people on this thread have stated that B6 has not been performing very well on their JFK-SJC route. I'm not really sure as to why they would think that, though. If the route was under-performing, they would not be operating it (would have ended it a long time ago).


JFK-SJC has about the second lowest fare numbers amongst B6 transcon out of JFK (with only SEA worse) and that was before there was any competition. Now there are 3 carriers. There are going to be some terrible numbers coming out later this year. Not getting mint imo.

EWR-SJC is AS's lowest yielding EWR transcon (one of the worst system wide). You can see why I think this JFK-SJC flight isn't going to do well.

JFK-SAN even with the flat bed competition should be a higher yielding route.

AS has expanded so much out of SJC that I'm sure the growing Mileage Plan/AS Visa customer base is there to support this new route. I think they're both sustainable...great connection opportunities out of either as well as point-to-point. And would love to see SAN added...maybe in the fall?

you do realize SJC is a very low yielding station for AS, right?

GSPSPOT wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

If onboard food & bev are elevated from standard F fare on AS and the price is right, I know that I would be only too happy to give them a try.


Here is thing. On most routes, mint and AS F pricing are about the same unless you are an AS elite ff.


Such a doom-n-gloom post. But it's probably realistic. I think SJC-JFK, especially when it's timed, will do better than SJC-EWR. If AS can make $5 on the route, they'll probably stay. AS has been in SJC forever and probably already has a clientele...that'll help some. This route, again, will support the huge bank of international flights through JFK. I'm at a wait-and-see mindset. We'll see what happens. If the SJC-JFK route fails, it will probably get transferred to either PDX or SAN.
 
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Polot
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:44 pm

berari wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Looks like they are going to give B6 a run for their money.

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2018-04- ... tle-flight


Much ado about nothing. Why pick on the one airline that has the lowest number of frequency on the route when AA flies 3x and DL flies 6x per day?

B6 still provides a boutique service on the SEA-JFK run, granted not the best performing route for B6 (it has maintained a single daily rotation since forever.) It does offer a better product than AS, and if flying overnight out of SEA, and if fares are similar, the choice is clear.

The lowest frequency operator is generally the most vulnerable (you yourself admit it is probably not the best performing route for B6), that is why he was “picking” on B6 (although is AA really 3x daily?). If AS’s frequency increase lowers profitably the airlines with the lowest frequencies are the ones most likely to leave first.
 
scoping2008
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:45 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
I’m surprised that the SEA flight is on Airbus metal rather than a B739 that their red eye runs on. Also surprised to see SJC before SAN, although SAN is available from Newark. With the timing of flights though, it’s clear that they’re targeting connections at T7 at JFK and not just O&D, especially with a higher yield SJC flight. There, I suspect that an SFO flight could move to SJC.

I agree this is interesting. They've made it very clear the Airbus fleet would be moving off the transcons and doing more North/South flights. Maybe somebody with some more knowledge on the situation can explain...


AS management never said ALL Airbus aircraft would be removed from transcon and Hawaii flying. Over the course of the next two years, the Boeing fleet will account for about 80% of transcon and Hawaii flying, but 20% will still remain Airbus. Right now the mix is about 60% Boeing versus 40% Airbus.
 
727LOVER
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:46 pm

LOL....so that's why they put that sign up. :lol:
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:48 pm

SonaSounds wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
SANFan wrote:
All my yacking for the last week or 2 about JFK and a new nonstop transcon.... What a shock; call me baffled and disappointed with Alaska. But that's just me.

Plus, both of these new flights are prime (west coast) timing -- early morning w/c departures and evening returns, using valuable JFK slots I assume. No red-eye nonsense.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

bb


How many flights and airlines currently on SAN-JFK?

How many flights on how many airlines fly SFO-JFK? How many people are closer to SJC?

Also, the bay area is a different market from SAN. It is probably not realistic to try to compare them directly.


For July 2018...

SFO has ~41 flights a day to JFK/EWR

SAN has ~14 flights a day to JFK/EWR

SJC has ~4 flights a day to JFK/EWR


SJC should easily be able to support more than 4 flights a day if they can convince the millions of people that live closer to SJC than SFO to fly SJC.


SJC is 5. AS/UA to EWR, AS/B6/DL to JFK.

OAK is 2 (WN to EWR, B6 to JFK)
 
jetbluefan1
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Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:48 pm

FA9295 wrote:
DDR wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
JFK-SEA is a B6 Mint route plus a DL Delta One Route. The core premium passengers have options to choose with these two good products vs. AS which is the standard product for this route.

B6 BOS-SJC LF: 81.30% (it's pretty good and they have been flying solo on this route. Knock knock DL :))
B6 JFK-SJC LF: 84.56% (this is not a Mint route). AS sees an opportunity here and comparatively a standard B6 product to poach and chase.


So how long until JFK-SJC does become a Mint route?

I'm pretty sure that's in B6's near future. With that being said, some people on this thread have stated that B6 has not been performing very well on their JFK-SJC route. I'm not really sure as to why they would think that, though. If the route was under-performing, they would not be operating it (would have ended it a long time ago).


The thing about JFK-SJC (and other markets like OAK, SMF) is that they are evening departures from the East Coast with a redeye return, thus allowing for greater utilization of B6's most expensive capital asset (airplanes). So if B6 has an aircraft available at 7PM, it can fly out to the West Coast and be back at JFK or BOS in time for a morning departure to Florida or to the Islands. If that same aircraft was sent to Florida instead, it would land too late to squeeze in another segment. So I suspect B6 management effectively looks at these markets from a different lens, in that the extra utilization helps spread out costs over more segments/ASM's, thus keeping unit costs down for the airline as a whole.

If these were daytime flights, then I suspect the hurdle would be much higher, as alternative uses for the aircraft are far greater.
 
Austin787
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 pm

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:54 pm

Polot wrote:
berari wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Looks like they are going to give B6 a run for their money.

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2018-04- ... tle-flight


Much ado about nothing. Why pick on the one airline that has the lowest number of frequency on the route when AA flies 3x and DL flies 6x per day?

B6 still provides a boutique service on the SEA-JFK run, granted not the best performing route for B6 (it has maintained a single daily rotation since forever.) It does offer a better product than AS, and if flying overnight out of SEA, and if fares are similar, the choice is clear.

The lowest frequency operator is generally the most vulnerable (you yourself admit it is probably not the best performing route for B6), that is why he was “picking” on B6 (although is AA really 3x daily?). If AS’s frequency increase lowers profitably the airlines with the lowest frequencies are the ones most likely to leave first.

I think AA is more vulnerable than B6 on JFK-SEA. AA is up to 3 daily during the summer season, though drops to just 1 daily after summer which is lowest frequency of the airlines flying JFK-SEA.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2982
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:08 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Polot wrote:
berari wrote:

Much ado about nothing. Why pick on the one airline that has the lowest number of frequency on the route when AA flies 3x and DL flies 6x per day?

B6 still provides a boutique service on the SEA-JFK run, granted not the best performing route for B6 (it has maintained a single daily rotation since forever.) It does offer a better product than AS, and if flying overnight out of SEA, and if fares are similar, the choice is clear.

The lowest frequency operator is generally the most vulnerable (you yourself admit it is probably not the best performing route for B6), that is why he was “picking” on B6 (although is AA really 3x daily?). If AS’s frequency increase lowers profitably the airlines with the lowest frequencies are the ones most likely to leave first.

I think AA is more vulnerable than B6 on JFK-SEA. AA is up to 3 daily during the summer season, though drops to just 1 daily after summer which is lowest frequency of the airlines flying JFK-SEA.

That’s right, if we consider year round, aa is mostly a once daily carrier on this route. And my guess is they will trim July and August to 2 daily since that’s what they did for June. They typically finalize schedule 3 months away.

B6 at twice daily year round with mint will be fine. And now as will be at least twice daily year round. I think they are making the right moves here. This is going To be a bit of bloodbath.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:11 pm

berari wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Looks like they are going to give B6 a run for their money.

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2018-04- ... tle-flight


Much ado about nothing. Why pick on the one airline that has the lowest number of frequency on the route when AA flies 3x and DL flies 6x per day?

B6 still provides a boutique service on the SEA-JFK run, granted not the best performing route for B6 (it has maintained a single daily rotation since forever.) It does offer a better product than AS, and if flying overnight out of SEA, and if fares are similar, the choice is clear.

I agree about choosing B6. Them and AS have 2 flights a day on SEA-JFK with similar timings (early afternoon departure and redeye) and on some sample dates I checked (even though this isn't always the case), Mint and first class on AS are the same price, give or take a few dollars. Although I'm usually loyal to AS, if I were to fly in a premium product on SEA-NYC, I certainly know what my choice of airline would be, and if more people knew about Mint, they'd feel the same way. IMO, AS is in between a rock and a hard place on SEA-JFK with Mint being so cheap that they can't lower their F fares very much without having to lower their already-cheap Y fares.
Long live the Boeing 757!
 
Abeam79
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:15 pm

Good luck to AS, they have gotten quite a shellacking from B6 on transcon that makes AS not able to compete as well especially how B6's Mint is very popular. If B6 decides to put Mint on SJC, like they did with SEA, it will put pressure even more on an already loss making launch for AS.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/03/ ... d-its.aspx
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4365
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:24 pm

Seems like a decent try for AS.

I think AA might retract. It's nothing against AA at all it's more they are small in SEA and are shrinking JFK. It's a very competitive market now. This changed recently, just a few years ago AA was a much larger player in the market the number of seats has skyrocketed between nyc-sea. Additionally beside huge Increase in numbers of seats the quality of the premium cabin has gone up alot on many flights. I do think AA will bow out but it's nothing against AA it's just too competitive and the other carriers all have more of a reason to stay or absorb a loss.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4975
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:34 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Seems like a decent try for AS.

I think AA might retract. It's nothing against AA at all it's more they are small in SEA and are shrinking JFK. It's a very competitive market now. This changed recently, just a few years ago AA was a much larger player in the market the number of seats has skyrocketed between nyc-sea. Additionally beside huge Increase in numbers of seats the quality of the premium cabin has gone up alot on many flights. I do think AA will bow out but it's nothing against AA it's just too competitive and the other carriers all have more of a reason to stay or absorb a loss.


It's hard to say. AA is not as small as your think at SEA. But they only serve their hubs, i.e. PHX, LAX, DFW, ORD, PHL, JFK, CLT and MIA. B6's presence at SEA is small by comparison.
 
snowzilla
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
A couple of interesting things here.
1) no reduction in other services from what I can see and the times don't appear to be really off peak hours, so either JFK slots are really easy to obtain or they got it from someone.

They are reducing LAX/SFO-JFK by one each so they can free up an Airbus to do these new flights.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:42 pm

SEA airline market share from 2017:
AS: 49.57% (includes Horizon air and Virgin America)
AA: 5.86% (includes AAE)
DL: 19.73% (includes DLC)
JetBlue: 1.18%

AS is miles ahead of the game!
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4975
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:55 pm

iyerhari wrote:
SEA airline market share from 2017:
AS: 49.57% (includes Horizon air and Virgin America)
AA: 5.86% (includes AAE)
DL: 19.73% (includes DLC)
JetBlue: 1.18%

AS is miles ahead of the game!


I would have thought DL's market-share at SEA would be higher...like 25+% consider how many flights and destinations they have so far. But AS is staying well ahead of the game.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:00 pm

SJC airline market share:
WN: 48.40%
AS: 11.39%
AA: 8.96%

JFK airline market share:
DL: 26.81%
B6: 23.01%
AA: 11.69%

AS does not even show up in JFK top 20 airline reports.
 
User avatar
NameOmitted
Posts: 653
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Re: AS Begins JFK-SJC; Adds 3 daily SEA

Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:21 pm

I know that there are specific AA/AS restrictions after the VX merger. Is there a stipulation as to how long AA and AS need to not compete on a route before they can code-share it?

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