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Irehdna
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Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:43 pm

LH has just announced several changes to its long haul routes, per:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-03apr18/

Some interesting changes:
    FRA-BKK back up to A380 for W18
    FRA-IAH B748 will replace A380. (Surprised they are not using A346).
    FRA-JFK LH404/403 will use A343. (Interesting that they would put A343 on JFK, considering this would result in loss of first class versus A333 and A346)
    FRA-PHL A333 will replace A343 (So this means first class will be added. Very interesting that they are shifting some F capacity from JFK to PHL.)
    FRA-SEA A333 will replace B748 (SEA is doing well economically, and should sustain some F traffic, but FRA-SEA is quite long for a non-HGW A333.)

Feel free to share your thoughts on these changes. Keep in mind that LH is shifting much of its A380 traffic to MUC.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:46 pm

Thanks for the information Irehdna. What is the rationale for moving one A343 to one of the JFK rotations? Is this particular flight the less desirable in terms of schedule? Is this flight the one with less premium demand? Is this flight statistically chosen more by connecting passengers than O&D.

Thanks!!
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:03 pm

EddieDude wrote:
Thanks for the information Irehdna. What is the rationale for moving one A343 to one of the JFK rotations? Is this particular flight the less desirable in terms of schedule? Is this flight the one with less premium demand? Is this flight statistically chosen more by connecting passengers than O&D.

Thanks!!


Good point! LH400 leaves relatively early in the morning, before connections from within Europe as well as places like India/Middle East arrive.
 
stylo777
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:31 pm

With shifting of planes between FRA and MUC (380-346); planes entering and leaving the fleet (350-346); "jump" planes operated by CityLine finding new tasks within LHGroup (343); we will certainly see many more of those interesting changes.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:01 pm

When will MUC-MEX switch from the A346 to the A359? October?
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
FSDan
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:42 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Keep in mind that LH is shifting much of its A380 traffic to MUC.


I wouldn't say "much". They are essentially moving 3 A380 routes from FRA to MUC (LAX, PEK, and HKG in the summer; SFO, MIA, and PVG in the winter).
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ua900
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:16 pm

EddieDude wrote:
Thanks for the information Irehdna. What is the rationale for moving one A343 to one of the JFK rotations? Is this particular flight the less desirable in terms of schedule? Is this flight the one with less premium demand? Is this flight statistically chosen more by connecting passengers than O&D.

Thanks!!


More tourists than 333, enough business class passengers, but relatively little F demand during that time.

stylo777 wrote:
With shifting of planes between FRA and MUC (380-346); planes entering and leaving the fleet (350-346); "jump" planes operated by CityLine finding new tasks within LHGroup (343); we will certainly see many more of those interesting changes.


Something for everyone. LH Group does a great job at being able to operate lots of types and variants profitably by offering the right plane for every route they operate.

FSDan wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
Keep in mind that LH is shifting much of its A380 traffic to MUC.


I wouldn't say "much". They are essentially moving 3 A380 routes from FRA to MUC (LAX, PEK, and HKG in the summer; SFO, MIA, and PVG in the winter).


And that move is purely political. LH must have given Fraport a guarantee that it would never withdraw A380s (still a prestige plane) from FRA in return for FRA keeping out the FR riff-raff. When FRA allowed FR in, LH made their announcement.
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Sooner787
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:50 pm

Looking forward to seeing LH's B748 in Houston ,

makes up for KLM withdrawing their 744 service from IAH :)
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:18 pm

Irehdna wrote:
FRA-PHL A333 will replace A343 (So this means first class will be added. Very interesting that they are shifting some F capacity from JFK to PHL.)


Very interesting indeed. AA won't even fly the route. PHL-FRA is seasonal.
 
stylo777
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:25 pm

Might be jeopardizing this thread a little bit, but for some reasons I find the 343 so versatile and LH really puts it to the right place.
Just draw a map with their current 343 routes:

Image
(credit to gcmap)

This network of 18 destinations is operated by 16 aircraft with 3-7 frequencies per week.
Amazing usage in my opinion!
 
speedbird52
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:26 pm

I cannot begin to stress enough how disappointed I am to be loosing the 747 at Seattle. BA are now the only airline flying in the Summer, and in the Winter we will have no 747 service. But I cannot lie that I saw this coming a mile away: The 747s were always flying to Seattle slightly more then half full. Oh well, I enjoyed it while it lasted, and managed to get three flights on her out of KSEA. But it just won't be the same.
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:46 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Looking forward to seeing LH's B748 in Houston ,

makes up for KLM withdrawing their 744 service from IAH :)

But LH did the same thing this last winter in 2017, they replaced the whale with the 748.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
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adambrau
Posts: 334
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:48 pm

Irehdna wrote:
LH has just announced several changes to its long haul routes, per:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-03apr18/

Some interesting changes:
    FRA-BKK back up to A380 for W18
    FRA-IAH B748 will replace A380. (Surprised they are not using A346).
    FRA-JFK LH404/403 will use A343. (Interesting that they would put A343 on JFK, considering this would result in loss of first class versus A333 and A346)
    FRA-PHL A333 will replace A343 (So this means first class will be added. Very interesting that they are shifting some F capacity from JFK to PHL.)
    FRA-SEA A333 will replace B748 (SEA is doing well economically, and should sustain some F traffic, but FRA-SEA is quite long for a non-HGW A333.)



Feel free to share your thoughts on these changes. Keep in mind that LH is shifting much of its A380 traffic to MUC.



Just a small nitpick but LH403 is EWR, LH405 is JFK!
JFK Friendly
 
LH707330
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:07 am

speedbird52 wrote:
I cannot begin to stress enough how disappointed I am to be loosing the 747 at Seattle. BA are now the only airline flying in the Summer, and in the Winter we will have no 747 service. But I cannot lie that I saw this coming a mile away: The 747s were always flying to Seattle slightly more then half full. Oh well, I enjoyed it while it lasted, and managed to get three flights on her out of KSEA. But it just won't be the same.

Yeah, same here. I've been on the 333, 343, and 744 into and out of SEA. Grabbed a nose seat and 2x upper deck while I still had the chance, those will be good memories. I'm bummed that I missed the 748, I had a trip get canceled last minute that would have put me on one of those.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:46 am

LH707330 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
I cannot begin to stress enough how disappointed I am to be loosing the 747 at Seattle. BA are now the only airline flying in the Summer, and in the Winter we will have no 747 service. But I cannot lie that I saw this coming a mile away: The 747s were always flying to Seattle slightly more then half full. Oh well, I enjoyed it while it lasted, and managed to get three flights on her out of KSEA. But it just won't be the same.

Yeah, same here. I've been on the 333, 343, and 744 into and out of SEA. Grabbed a nose seat and 2x upper deck while I still had the chance, those will be good memories. I'm bummed that I missed the 748, I had a trip get canceled last minute that would have put me on one of those.

Yep. I was scheduled to be on a 748, then connect to a 744 last December on my trip to Iran. I had a good chance of grabbing a 743 which means I would possibly be one of the few people in history to have flown all three generations of 747s in one trip. Unfortunately, Mahan Air took the 743 out of service just before I left, and a last minute equipment swap meant I was flying two 744s instead of a 748. (Still, despite no longer being able to fly in First Class Seats for a Business Class ticked, I can't complain about two back to back 747 flights, particularly in the nose and upper deck) If we had been getting an A346 this loss would have been easier to stomach.
 
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aviationfan12
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:52 am

Surprised that Seattle is downgraded to A333 considering it has been B744 and B748 for a few years..
 
Gbass21
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:30 am

BOG will also change to A346 from October 2018
 
NG263
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:05 am

The A330's of LH are currently getting refitted without the first class.
 
trijetsonly
Posts: 735
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:25 am

Irehdna wrote:
LH has just announced several changes to its long haul routes, per:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-03apr18/

Some interesting changes:
    FRA-BKK back up to A380 for W18
    FRA-IAH B748 will replace A380. (Surprised they are not using A346).
    FRA-JFK LH404/403 will use A343. (Interesting that they would put A343 on JFK, considering this would result in loss of first class versus A333 and A346)
    FRA-PHL A333 will replace A343 (So this means first class will be added. Very interesting that they are shifting some F capacity from JFK to PHL.)
    FRA-SEA A333 will replace B748 (SEA is doing well economically, and should sustain some F traffic, but FRA-SEA is quite long for a non-HGW A333.)

Feel free to share your thoughts on these changes. Keep in mind that LH is shifting much of its A380 traffic to MUC.


Are you sure about your assumptions regarding First Class?
As far as I know no A333 will have a F-Cabin remaining by middle of this year.
Happy Landings
 
Blerg
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:39 am

I am surprised Miami is being downgraded during winter season. I was under the impression that's when most Europeans go to Florida.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:42 am

ua900 wrote:

And that move is purely political. LH must have given Fraport a guarantee that it would never withdraw A380s (still a prestige plane) from FRA in return for FRA keeping out the FR riff-raff. When FRA allowed FR in, LH made their announcement.


I assume the discounts for FR did produce the anger.
 
Flyglobal
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:07 am

Note that US (Holiday) traffic is down and yields are as well.

Flyglobal
 
WingsOfLove
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:37 am

trijetsonly wrote:
As far as I know no A333 will have a F-Cabin remaining by middle of this year


That would explain why they're not selling F PHL-FRA.
 
Blerg
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:40 am

Flyglobal wrote:
Note that US (Holiday) traffic is down and yields are as well.

Flyglobal


Does this include Americans going abroad or foreigners visiting the US as well?
 
rta
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:56 pm

Blerg wrote:
I am surprised Miami is being downgraded during winter season. I was under the impression that's when most Europeans go to Florida.


Well MUC MIA, which was added recently (A333) will be going A380. So overall an increase in capacity to Miami.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:50 pm

I think the change from A380 to 748 on the FRA-IAH route will be winter only. It looks like UA intends to now keep their 77E on this route year-round. In past winters, UA has cut capacity down to a 788 or 763. Since there is a JV in place, it looks like LH will be the one to trim some seats this winter.
 
phllax
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:24 pm

[quote="Irehdna"]

Some interesting changes:
    FRA-PHL A333 will replace A343 (So this means first class will be added. Very interesting that they are shifting some F capacity from JFK to PHL.)

What is/was LH's internal name for the 2-class 343 service? I saw it on here once but cannot find it via search.
 
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ua900
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:37 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
ua900 wrote:

And that move is purely political. LH must have given Fraport a guarantee that it would never withdraw A380s (still a prestige plane) from FRA in return for FRA keeping out the FR riff-raff. When FRA allowed FR in, LH made their announcement.


I assume the discounts for FR did produce the anger.


Sure, why wouldn't it? LH is Fraport's bread and butter yet can't get discounts on grounds that Fraport absolutely needs every penny. Then FR comes along and gets what has been denied to LH Group for many years. I'd liken it to what's been going on between AgeCore and Nestle.

If the EU 3 were smarter, they'd bond together to ensure that FRA, MUC, ZRH, MAD, LHR, CDG and AMS stay free of FR and U2. Otherwise you'll see more and more Joon and Eurowings type outfits in Europe, even at places like FRA where it was supposed to be very limited. The race to the bottom needs to be stopped at some point.

Jump is a good example of how far things should go. If it goes beyond that point, it will lead to EW type outfits cancelling even more point to point flying than is already the case, thanks to airport cutting too much slack to FR and U2.
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FSDan
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:26 pm

phllax wrote:
What is/was LH's internal name for the 2-class 343 service? I saw it on here once but cannot find it via search.


I believe it was called "Jump".
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:44 am

aviationfan12 wrote:
Surprised that Seattle is downgraded to A333 considering it has been B744 and B748 for a few years..


I can't say I'm entirely surprised. I have flown LH490/491 a ton of times over the past few years and Y has always been rather empty (though J has been consistently full). Sad to see SEA lose a 747, though!

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Andy33
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:31 am

ua900 wrote:
If the EU 3 were smarter, they'd bond together to ensure that FRA, MUC, ZRH, MAD, LHR, CDG and AMS stay free of FR and U2. Otherwise you'll see more and more Joon and Eurowings type outfits in Europe, even at places like FRA where it was supposed to be very limited. The race to the bottom needs to be stopped at some point.

Far too late for that - U2 already fly to all of these airports except LHR, and in most cases have done so for years. Their business model has always involved serving major airports and doesn't rely on reduced landing fees, marketing incentives etc. Where slots are available, it would be illegal to discriminate against individual airlines. The main reason U2 and FR don't serve LHR is that there have never been sufficient slots available on the market at the same time to permit an economic scale of operation.
 
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ua900
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Re: Interesting LH Service Changes

Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:36 pm

Andy33 wrote:
ua900 wrote:
If the EU 3 were smarter, they'd bond together to ensure that FRA, MUC, ZRH, MAD, LHR, CDG and AMS stay free of FR and U2. Otherwise you'll see more and more Joon and Eurowings type outfits in Europe, even at places like FRA where it was supposed to be very limited. The race to the bottom needs to be stopped at some point.

Far too late for that - U2 already fly to all of these airports except LHR, and in most cases have done so for years. Their business model has always involved serving major airports and doesn't rely on reduced landing fees, marketing incentives etc. Where slots are available, it would be illegal to discriminate against individual airlines. The main reason U2 and FR don't serve LHR is that there have never been sufficient slots available on the market at the same time to permit an economic scale of operation.


Should have been more specific, limit as much as possible. IMO EW and JN are just as bad as U2 and FR. I prefer the higher fares in return for nicer service, even if it's just a 2-3 hour flight.
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