ltbewr
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Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:15 am

The FBI has put up a $10,000 reward and has renewed the search 22 years after the horrible fire and crash of Valujet Flight 592, for a fugitive mechanic for SaberTech, the company that obscenely mishandled the packaging of O2 Generators that caused that loss. It is possible that the mechanic, Ociel Valenzuela-Reyas was charged in 1999 for his alleged part in the crash but apparently fled, possibly to his country of birth, Chile. It is sad that one of the people that may have caused this horrible loss has evaded justice. Here is a link http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 10759.html
 
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neomax
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:21 am

ltbewr wrote:
The FBI has put up a $10,000 reward and has renewed the search 22 years after the horrible fire and crash of Valujet Flight 592, for a fugitive mechanic for SaberTech, the company that obscenely mishandled the packaging of O2 Generators that caused that loss. It is possible that the mechanic, Ociel Valenzuela-Reyas was charged in 1999 for his alleged part in the crash but apparently fled, possibly to his country of birth, Chile. It is sad that one of the people that may have caused this horrible loss has evaded justice. Here is a link http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 10759.html


Is there any evidence of malicious intent? Why is the FBI prosecuting him for a procedural mistake? IIRC, the issue was due to a screw up loading some cargo that was prohibited. It's the result of unsafe company policy, they guy listened to his bosses. It's SaberTech that should be prosecuted, not this guy.
 
travelhound
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:37 am

Criminal negligence!
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:52 am

ltbewr wrote:
The FBI has put up a $10,000 reward and has renewed the search 22 years after the horrible fire and crash of Valujet Flight 592, for a fugitive mechanic for SaberTech, the company that obscenely mishandled the packaging of O2 Generators that caused that loss. It is possible that the mechanic, Ociel Valenzuela-Reyas was charged in 1999 for his alleged part in the crash but apparently fled, possibly to his country of birth, Chile. It is sad that one of the people that may have caused this horrible loss has evaded justice. Here is a link http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/c ... 10759.html


Seems no person got convicted. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/553363.stm
Any reason why this mechanic on the loose would have a different outcome?
 
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PPVLC
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:05 am

Scapegoat?
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neomax
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:12 am

PPVLC wrote:
Scapegoat?


Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

Sometimes, they just want to prosecute someone for the sake of prosecuting someone in the name of "accountability" when there's no single person who can actually be held accountable. I hate to say it, but there's no silver bullet here. Toxic corporate culture is a collective evil, and it's created over time. The only way you get rid of it is through collective punishment, which is pretty much what happened when they nuked Sabre Tech and got rid of the entire company. Sometimes, the culture is so bad/unsafe/unethical that you have to burn the entire thing which they did. You can't do much more than that. Going after one guy who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time isn't just beating a dead horse, it's idiotic and makes no sense.
 
toneale
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:47 am

Going after one guy who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time isn't just beating a dead horse, it's idiotic and makes no sense.


You just lost all credibility here. I've read much about this investigation and there were certainly criminal mistakes made. This guy wasn't a victim of circumstance - and he fled the jurisdiction to avoid prosecution.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:31 am

I believe there were required procedures for the shipment of O2 canisters on airplanes that SaberTech and their employees were required to follow and didn't. Valujet failed to check the shipment and allowed it and has blood on their hands too. Yes, this fugitive should face trial. It is possible that after so many years witnesses have died and documents may have disappeared so he may be acquitted, but with so many killed and the terrifying way they died, some resolution needs to be done including the trial of this fugitive.
 
727200
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:50 pm

Isn't there a statute of limitations on this? After 22 years unless its murder, he is a free man.
 
Jetty
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:56 pm

727200 wrote:
Isn't there a statute of limitations on this? After 22 years unless its murder, he is a free man.

That applies to the time when charges have to be filed. According to the OP that happened a long time ago.
 
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neomax
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:03 pm

toneale wrote:
Going after one guy who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time isn't just beating a dead horse, it's idiotic and makes no sense.


You just lost all credibility here. I've read much about this investigation and there were certainly criminal mistakes made. This guy wasn't a victim of circumstance - and he fled the jurisdiction to avoid prosecution.


Well then, by that logic, every aviation accident ever was a victim of criminal mistakes. I don't see your point. If the mistake wasn't made, we wouldn't even be talking about this. The reason all aviation accidents happen in the first place is because someone made a mistake. Tragic? Yes. But criminal? No. If the original ruling acquitted them, going after a second time only solidifies the theory that they had no reason to prosecute him other than to blame someone for it. The FBI was under pressure to hold someone accountable, but there wasn't a true target, so they ended up picking this guy. The FBI went after him because while the judicial ruling was fair, public backlash would have been fierce if someone wasn't held accountable. There is a toxic idea in this country that whenever something goes wrong, someone must always be blamed for it, regardless of it was even their fault just so they can say that accountability exists when they are merely searching for a scapegoat.

If you had actually bothered to read the BBC link, you would realize that the company was indeed found guilty and punished, but individuals were not, because they were not at fault. Justice was served, but of course, if it doesn't suit you agenda, let's try to prosecute someone anyway so it makes us look good, right?
 
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N328KF
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:17 pm

neomax wrote:
toneale wrote:
Going after one guy who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time isn't just beating a dead horse, it's idiotic and makes no sense.


You just lost all credibility here. I've read much about this investigation and there were certainly criminal mistakes made. This guy wasn't a victim of circumstance - and he fled the jurisdiction to avoid prosecution.


Well then, by that logic, every aviation accident ever was a victim of criminal mistakes. I don't see your point. If the mistake wasn't made, we wouldn't even be talking about this. The reason all aviation accidents happen in the first place is because someone made a mistake. Tragic? Yes. But criminal? No. If the original ruling acquitted them, going after a second time only solidifies the theory that they had no reason to prosecute him other than to blame someone for it. The FBI was under pressure to hold someone accountable, but there wasn't a true target, so they ended up picking this guy. The FBI went after him because while the judicial ruling was fair, public backlash would have been fierce if someone wasn't held accountable. There is a toxic idea in this country that whenever something goes wrong, someone must always be blamed for it, regardless of it was even their fault just so they can say that accountability exists when they are merely searching for a scapegoat.

If you had actually bothered to read the BBC link, you would realize that the company was indeed found guilty and punished, but individuals were not, because they were not at fault. Justice was served, but of course, if it doesn't suit you agenda, let's try to prosecute someone anyway so it makes us look good, right?


The main problem is that not what he did in performing his duties, but that he fled (and thus hampered) the investigation. He didn't wait around to try to prove his innocence - he just took off.
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flyingcat
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:22 pm

If he had never fled he likely would have avoided incarceration like the other employees but he choose to run and made a bad decision worse.

Usually the FBI watches the family, I'm surprised they have not tracked him that way. Either he has totally abandoned his kids, or they are frequently on ATL-SCL and use whatsapp to chat
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:38 pm

N328KF wrote:
neomax wrote:
toneale wrote:

You just lost all credibility here. I've read much about this investigation and there were certainly criminal mistakes made. This guy wasn't a victim of circumstance - and he fled the jurisdiction to avoid prosecution.


Well then, by that logic, every aviation accident ever was a victim of criminal mistakes. I don't see your point. If the mistake wasn't made, we wouldn't even be talking about this. The reason all aviation accidents happen in the first place is because someone made a mistake. Tragic? Yes. But criminal? No. If the original ruling acquitted them, going after a second time only solidifies the theory that they had no reason to prosecute him other than to blame someone for it. The FBI was under pressure to hold someone accountable, but there wasn't a true target, so they ended up picking this guy. The FBI went after him because while the judicial ruling was fair, public backlash would have been fierce if someone wasn't held accountable. There is a toxic idea in this country that whenever something goes wrong, someone must always be blamed for it, regardless of it was even their fault just so they can say that accountability exists when they are merely searching for a scapegoat.

If you had actually bothered to read the BBC link, you would realize that the company was indeed found guilty and punished, but individuals were not, because they were not at fault. Justice was served, but of course, if it doesn't suit you agenda, let's try to prosecute someone anyway so it makes us look good, right?


The main problem is that not what he did in performing his duties, but that he fled (and thus hampered) the investigation. He didn't wait around to try to prove his innocence - he just took off.


Which apparently one person here thinks is justice.
-Dave


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spacecadet
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:18 pm

neomax wrote:
toneale wrote:
Going after one guy who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time isn't just beating a dead horse, it's idiotic and makes no sense.


You just lost all credibility here. I've read much about this investigation and there were certainly criminal mistakes made. This guy wasn't a victim of circumstance - and he fled the jurisdiction to avoid prosecution.


Well then, by that logic, every aviation accident ever was a victim of criminal mistakes.


The point is it wasn't a mistake. There were federal requirements that were deliberately ignored.
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kiowa
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:43 pm

Didn’t Valujet change its name to AirTran?
 
USAirKid
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:03 pm

kiowa wrote:
Didn’t Valujet change its name to AirTran?


Almost.. Valujet's parent bought AirTran Airways an existing 737-200 operator, and merged with it, and took its name.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:55 pm

I'm really curious about Valenzuela-Reyes' cultural and ethnic background. Depending how he was acculturated I could very much see that he wouldn't have an expectation of a fair trial, thus that could be the reason why he fled.

That being said, as arcticcruiser mentioned, his co-workers were found not-guilty, why bother putting forth the money, time, and effort to prosecute this? He most likely is guilty of fleeing and failing to appear at his trial, but if others who were similarly situated as him were found not-guilty, its likely he would have been found not-guilty as well. This just screams of a prosecutor wanting to drum up their conviction rate, nothing more.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:38 pm

Depending how he was acculturated I could very much see that he wouldn't have an expectation of a fair trial, thus that could be the reason why he fled.


It shouldn't matter, though. When one immigrates to a new country, as this gentleman apparently did, one agrees to obey the laws of his new country. However one was acculturated, one has the legal and ethical responsibility to obey the laws of the (new) land, and fleeing only made him look guilty. If there's one thing that I know about the justice system, it isn't always what you do wrong that's the issue, its what you do afterwards. Its something that politicians need to learn - its always the coverup that occurs after the fact that eventually brings them down, not the original crime.
 
USAirKid
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:31 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Depending how he was acculturated I could very much see that he wouldn't have an expectation of a fair trial, thus that could be the reason why he fled.


It shouldn't matter, though. When one immigrates to a new country, as this gentleman apparently did, one agrees to obey the laws of his new country. However one was acculturated, one has the legal and ethical responsibility to obey the laws of the (new) land, and fleeing only made him look guilty. If there's one thing that I know about the justice system, it isn't always what you do wrong that's the issue, its what you do afterwards. Its something that politicians need to learn - its always the coverup that occurs after the fact that eventually brings them down, not the original crime.


Becoming reacculturated to a new country takes time. If you expect that courts aren't fair given your experience being acculturated in a different country, its going to take a lot of time and perhaps some experience to change that. Starting with a criminal trial related to an accident where 110 people were killed is asking a lot of someone.

I'm not sure about your background. I am a white American Cis-Male, who has an expectation that courts are mostly fair, but I could see this not being the case for someone with a different ethnic background.

A really extreme fictional example of an immigrant/visitor not following the laws of the new land is an early Star Trek: The Next Generation episode, "Justice". Where Wesley Crusher trips over a barrier and falls into a garden, and then per the customs of that land is sentenced to death. I'm sure there are less extreme and real world examples, but that was the first one that came to mind.

So if you forgive Valenzuela-Reyes for fleeing justice given his background, you're left with a case where every one of what would've been his co-defendants has been found guilty.
 
zanl188
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:04 pm

For trained and certified hazardous materials handlers the consequences of a mistake can be rather large. Not so much that it's worth being on the run for 22 years though.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:09 pm

USAirKid wrote:
A really extreme fictional example of an immigrant/visitor not following the laws of the new land is an early Star Trek: The Next Generation episode, "Justice". Where Wesley Crusher trips over a barrier and falls into a garden, and then per the customs of that land is sentenced to death. I'm sure there are less extreme and real world examples, but that was the first one that came to mind.

You are not helping the mechanic's cause.

I would be ok with Wesley Crusher having been eliminated. ;)

Seriously, he fled. The FBI renewed (or just reiterated) the reward.

Lightsaber
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zanl188
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:15 pm

Quick run down on penalties from CFR 49 107.333:

CRIMINAL PENALTIES
§ 107.333 Criminal penalties generally.
A person who knowingly violates §171.2(l) of this title or willfully or recklessly violates a requirement of the Federal hazardous material trans- portation law or a regulation, order, special permit, or approval issued thereunder shall be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, except the maximum amount of imprisonment shall be 10 years in any case in which the violation involves the release of a hazardous material which results in death or bodily injury to any person.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:51 pm

I don't think they should pay him a reward. If anything, they should punish the guy.
 
buzzard302
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:20 am

$10,000 reward is not big in terms of FBI rewards. This guy is a scapegoat and an effort to provide some form of finalization. Lots of mistakes happen in Miami. Just look at the bridge that collapsed a few weeks ago at FIU. Typical Miami incompetence.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:58 am

Becoming reacculturated to a new country takes time. If you expect that courts aren't fair given your experience being acculturated in a different country, its going to take a lot of time and perhaps some experience to change that. Starting with a criminal trial related to an accident where 110 people were killed is asking a lot of someone.


I truly hope you're not saying that there should be different rules for different people depending upon where they're from? I hope you're not? Because, well, it sounds like you are. Or, at a minimum you're saying that we should expect less from people placed in positions of importance - you know, like handling hazardous materials - if they're from someplace else? Especially since, you know, no one put a gun to their heads and made them undergo the training for said job, and then accept said job? As another poster said, you're not helping the mechanic's case.

Of course, it could simply be that he's a scumbag who didn't want to face the music, so he ran like a yellow dog. It could be that... :twisted:
 
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Erebus
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:20 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
I don't think they should pay him a reward. If anything, they should punish the guy.


lol, right. Maybe "Reward for information leading to capture and arrest of Valujet mechanic" would sound better?
 
strfyr51
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:55 am

travelhound wrote:
Criminal negligence!

Up tp that time? NOBODY knew the O2 Generators were a Hazard!
 
PanHAM
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:56 am

strfyr51 wrote:
travelhound wrote:
Criminal negligence!

Up tp that time? NOBODY knew the O2 Generators were a Hazard!


You are joking. Every Person in the industry that was and is responsible forhandling air cargo HAS to know that. Oxygen Generators have been and still are Dangerous Gds, or, in American Hazmat.

The IATA DGR rules and packing instructions have been ignored . The freight should never have been loaded anmd from a "mechanic" that Basic knowledge of what canhappen if These Generators are packed loose in a cartn, can be expected.

Criminal negligence is the correct term, but not only from that Person but the Management mut puton Trial as well.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
toneale
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:02 pm

Up to that time? NOBODY knew the O2 Generators were a Hazard!


Really? You have zero clue - they were considered HAZMAT at the time they were shipped. Safety caps were required for shipment. Sabretech crews instead used duct tape to tie down the activation cables or cut the cables altogether.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:45 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
travelhound wrote:
Criminal negligence!

Up tp that time? NOBODY knew the O2 Generators were a Hazard!


That isn't even the slightest bit true.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
Elementalism
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:56 pm

N328KF wrote:
neomax wrote:
toneale wrote:

You just lost all credibility here. I've read much about this investigation and there were certainly criminal mistakes made. This guy wasn't a victim of circumstance - and he fled the jurisdiction to avoid prosecution.


Well then, by that logic, every aviation accident ever was a victim of criminal mistakes. I don't see your point. If the mistake wasn't made, we wouldn't even be talking about this. The reason all aviation accidents happen in the first place is because someone made a mistake. Tragic? Yes. But criminal? No. If the original ruling acquitted them, going after a second time only solidifies the theory that they had no reason to prosecute him other than to blame someone for it. The FBI was under pressure to hold someone accountable, but there wasn't a true target, so they ended up picking this guy. The FBI went after him because while the judicial ruling was fair, public backlash would have been fierce if someone wasn't held accountable. There is a toxic idea in this country that whenever something goes wrong, someone must always be blamed for it, regardless of it was even their fault just so they can say that accountability exists when they are merely searching for a scapegoat.

If you had actually bothered to read the BBC link, you would realize that the company was indeed found guilty and punished, but individuals were not, because they were not at fault. Justice was served, but of course, if it doesn't suit you agenda, let's try to prosecute someone anyway so it makes us look good, right?


The main problem is that not what he did in performing his duties, but that he fled (and thus hampered) the investigation. He didn't wait around to try to prove his innocence - he just took off.


Eh maybe he saw what a sham the trial would had been and didnt want to risk it? People dont prove their innocence anyways. The states proves their guilt.
 
ltbewr
Topic Author
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Re: Reward for fugitive mechanic in Valujet 592 crash

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:27 pm

One big issue as to criminal charges and trials in the USA is that many cannot afford decent lawyers and if poor enough, few of those lawyers provided are decent either. He likely feared getting convicted or pushed into a plea deal and go to some brutal jail.
Perhaps too there were records of Valenzuela-Reyas at Saber Tech certifying that he was trained in handling the O2 canisters and strong evidence that could have convicted him.

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