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AWACSooner
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:52 pm

briguychau wrote:
"As part of the strategy to simplify its fleet, American agreed with Airbus today to terminate its order for 22 A350s, which was originally placed by US Airways." - from AA's press release

Best news I've heard in a long time...
 
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N328KF
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:52 pm

Runway28L wrote:
Seems like AA is going for a nearly all-Boeing widebody fleet with the exception of the A332s of course. I'm really surprised they went with the 788 and not the 78J.


With 89 787s, the writing is on the wall for the A330-200. It's just a matter of time. But perhaps they're not replaced directly, but with NMA/MoM and/or 777X, allowing 787s to displace the A330-200s at that time.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
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william
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's)

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:54 pm

AA321T wrote:
Internal email just posted:

I wanted to share some exciting news with you about the future of our widebody fleet. Today American announced we’re ordering a total of 47 new Boeing 787s: 22 B787-8s and 25 B787-9s. The B787-8s will start to arrive in 2020 and we’ll continue taking deliveries, including the B787-9s, in later years.

The Boeing 767-300 has served us well over the past 30 years and, for a long time, was a mainstay of our international fleet. And while many of us have fond memories of the B767, in recent years we’ve experienced challenges with its reliability as well as an outdated appearance in terms of its interior when compared to our more modern widebody aircraft. All this to say it’s time to firm up plans for its replacement and our order today helps us do that. As the new B787-8s arrive, the plan is to start retiring the B767-300s.

In connection with this news, I also wanted to put to bed the rumors many of you have heard about the status of our Airbus A350 order – which we have agreed with Airbus to cancel. This order made sense for US Airways, however now that we’re building one American Airlines fleet, it makes more sense to invest in the B787 – which allows us to swap aircraft more easily as well as simplify both pilot and flight attendant training.

On another note, we also announced we’ll defer the delivery of 40 B737 MAX aircraft. Originally scheduled for delivery between 2020 and 2022, by deferring them to the 2025-2026 timeframe we can avoid having more narrowbody aircraft than we need at one time. We remain committed to our order of 100 B737 MAXes, and this decision allows us to better line up their delivery with the retirement of our older B737-800s.

Finally, we continue to have 100 Airbus A321neos scheduled to begin arriving in 2019.

These decisions help ensure we’ll receive the right aircraft at the right time. And at the same time will simplify our operation – helping improve our customer experience as well as yours. I encourage you to check out all the details on Jetnet.



Would not be suprised to see a follow up on the A321NEOs order to absorb any A350 cancellation penalties. Remember the "blockbuster" 500 aircraft order years ago? I would love to know where AA stands on reaching that 500.
 
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O530CarrisPT
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's)

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:56 pm

Stitch wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
A350 is dead at AA.


Well never say never, since there will be eventual 777-200ER and 777-300ER replacements to deal with, but if I was a betting man, I would be putting money down on additional 787 purchases and eventual 777-9s at this point.


Is very likely that AA may never order the Airbus A350XWB for replacing their Boeing 777s - because their 777-300ERs are still relatively young (and I'm not rulling out a potential 777-9 order to replace them), and I think for some of the AA's routes, the 787-10 may be a better replacement for their 777-200ERs in comparison with the A350-900XWB (although I really wanted AA to keep part of the A350-900XWB for replacing a portion of the 772s!).
Last edited by O530CarrisPT on Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)
 
texl1649
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:57 pm

It is going to be amusing to read the ‘Airbus blogs’ write this up, and not note how they had indicated the formerly US management at AA favored the A350 and NEO lines.
 
mhkansan
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:59 pm

Why do we all think AA is placing an order to replace new-build A332s and 77Ws? This is clearly an order for some limited expansion, and for the 767s and 777s. The 333s will be gone before these planes ever come on AA property.
 
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keesje
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:00 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Big win for Boeing and a huge blow for Airbus. This positions AA to be an all-Boeing widebody airline. I'm not shocked that the 788 was on the order list. It's the best 763 replacement on the market today, and if 787 costs have been decreased as believed, the 788 might have gained in that area as well. In a way I see this as a strike against the 797. Either AA doesn't believe in it, and/or it's too far away. Losing AA isn't good for the program either way.


Congratulations to Boeing! While expected, it has now become clear Boeing is upgrading the 787-8 to become more common with the 787-9 and -10 production standards. It seems this order is mainly aimed at aging 767 and A330 fleet. Expanding the 787 fleet was to expected. It seems a some stage another 40 aircraft must be ordered to replace the 777 fleet on longer heavier flights.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
kevin5345179
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:00 am

the only question that really bothers me is who is that idiot PR at Boeing
apparently AA is planning to announce on Monday and some dude decided to put it up first
same story happened on HA 787 order as well ......

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... a4a7143442
 
INFINITI329
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:02 am

seabosdca wrote:
Wow. "The reports of the 788's death have been greatly exaggerated."

This also looks like AA is betting against the 797. If the bet doesn't work out, and a decade down the road AA is trying to use 788s to compete with Delta 797s on TATL routes, that's going to hurt.


I don't believe AA really had a choice.. it was either the 330neo or the 788. Their 330s and 767s arent exactly spring chickens. But like others have stated AA will likely have the ability to have to move some 788s over to the 797.
 
tofur
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:04 am

Great news for American Airlines and the Boeing 787 program. I really enjoy working on the 787.

As well as the obvious fuel savings and operational advantages, there are crew cost savings as well. The faster flying times equate to having to do another trip per month for crew members just to meet minimum block hours. For example a Toronto to Los Angeles turn around on the Boeing 767 or Airbus 330 is worth a flying time credit of 10 hours and 10 minutes, the Boeing 787 is blocked for a credit of 9 hours and 30 minutes. A savings of 40 minutes per trip for each flight deck and cabin crew member, add that up over time and it equals a large sum of money. Of course the same also applies to Transpacific and Transatlantic routes, a huge saving for the airlines.
Last edited by tofur on Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
frank1991
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:06 am

a330-200 are too young to be retired. They came in 10 years later than the a330-300, so AA is keeping them.
 
AirLawyer
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:08 am

I am a bit confused. Isnt the 788 (or A338) the perfect replacement for the 763? I thought the 797 was the replacement for the 757...
 
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aeromoe
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:08 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
konrad wrote:

It would be strange if they ordered them from AIRBUS.


Or Amazon.


Wonder is AA subscribes to Amazon Prime? They could get them by Sunday.


:checkmark: :checkmark:
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
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keesje
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:10 am

kevin5345179 wrote:
the only question that really bothers me is who is that idiot PR at Boeing
apparently AA is planning to announce on Monday and some dude decided to put it up first
same story happened on HA 787 order as well ......

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... a4a7143442


Besides taking the 787s, American will defer delivery of 40 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft until 2025 and 2026. Those aircraft had been scheduled to arrive between 2020 and 2022.


Wow 2025, that is a long time. It will make the 60 737 MAX on order an orphan fleet next to the 400-500 Airbus NB’s. However it will take along time before the 737NG’s will all be gone. Its a give and take for Boeing.
Last edited by keesje on Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
bigjku
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:18 am

lightsaber wrote:
Revelation wrote:
A lot of long a.net threads are now officially null and void.

:rotfl:

I wish. ;)

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
How does this all factor in with the recent announcement of AA retiring their pre-9/11 738s?

And looking to buy used A319s? It sounds like sound rational fleet planning. Each fleet and even sub-fleet has different optimizations. AA isn't anti-airbus, they are making business decisions based on what their analysis, base on AA's assumptions, is best for them.

Arion640 wrote:
Airliners.net had said the -8 wouldn't get any further orders. Looks like that has changed.

It looks like something has changed. I'm not sure just the price. Did I miss a 788 PIP? Say getting the 789 tail?

Lightsaber


The 8 is getting the 9’s tail.

https://www.postandcourier.com/business ... 3d09e.html
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:21 am

keesje wrote:
kevin5345179 wrote:
the only question that really bothers me is who is that idiot PR at Boeing
apparently AA is planning to announce on Monday and some dude decided to put it up first
same story happened on HA 787 order as well ......

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... a4a7143442


Besides taking the 787s, American will defer delivery of 40 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft until 2025 and 2026. Those aircraft had been scheduled to arrive between 2020 and 2022.


Wow 2025, that is a long time. It will make the 60 737 MAX on order an orphan fleet next to the 400-500 Airbus NB’s. However it will take along time before the 737NG’s will all be gone. Its a give and take for Boeing.


There are over 300 737-800s in the American fleet. It is the most common airplane in the entire American Airlines fleet with over 200 being less than 10 years old, so it is strange calling a fleet of 737-8s an orphan fleet. Those 737-800s will still be around in 2025. With all that said, it is noteworthy that the 737-8 were deferred. I suspect as a part of the 787 order, Boeing was probably willing to be flexible with narrowbody deferrals. Airbus would not have had the same incentive to be flexible to allow deferrals. Those 737-8s could also turn into a different order... like a MOM or A321 derivative.
Last edited by Newbiepilot on Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
airzona11
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:23 am

keesje wrote:
kevin5345179 wrote:
the only question that really bothers me is who is that idiot PR at Boeing
apparently AA is planning to announce on Monday and some dude decided to put it up first
same story happened on HA 787 order as well ......

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... a4a7143442


Besides taking the 787s, American will defer delivery of 40 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft until 2025 and 2026. Those aircraft had been scheduled to arrive between 2020 and 2022.


Wow 2025, that is a long time. It will make the 60 737 MAX on order an orphan fleet next to the 400-500 Airbus NB’s. However it will take along time before the 737NG’s will all be gone. Its a give and take for Boeing.


60 Max+100s of 738s still in fleet. From your previous posts on the MoM /A321+, I wonder if that deferral opens up the door for those frames for a 2025 delivery? The A321NEOs and Max should have them well covered in near term. Will be interesting to see. What do you think?
 
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MoKa777
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:26 am

qf789 wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
Congrats to AA and Boeing! Nice order. Reasonable and sensible decision.

Were the A350s deferred? If so, to when were they deferred?


No the A350 order has been cancelled


My apologies, I was not clear.

I mean to ask, before the cancellation, was that order initially deferred? If it was deferred at some point before being cancelled today, for when were deliveries tentatively planned?
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
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Erebus
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's)

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:28 am

Congratulations to Boeing and AA.

This is a setback for Airbus obviously, but not something that has never happened before. Ironically, this is of a similar magnitude to the Airbus order that essentially displaced the 787 at Delta. Win some, lose some.

Stitch wrote:

Well never say never, since there will be eventual 777-200ER and 777-300ER replacements to deal with, but if I was a betting man, I would be putting money down on additional 787 purchases and eventual 777-9s at this point.


Well, the 777-9 seems like the only game in town, but it will be a very long time before the 77Ws need replacing. That's plenty of time for Airbus to come up with the new technologies to make that oft-talked about A350-1000 stretch a strong contender.
 
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N62NA
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:34 am

I hope those backward/forward J seats are no longer available and AA will use the same J seats on the 789 on the new 788s.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:38 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Big win for Boeing and a huge blow for Airbus. This positions AA to be an all-Boeing widebody airline. I'm not shocked that the 788 was on the order list. It's the best 763 replacement on the market today, and if 787 costs have been decreased as believed, the 788 might have gained in that area as well. In a way I see this as a strike against the 797. Either AA doesn't believe in it, and/or it's too far away. Losing AA isn't good for the program either way.


The 797, if launched, will EIS in about 2025. I hardly think this 787 order means Boeing lost AA for the 797. I really don’t follow that logic.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:40 am

keesje wrote:
Congratulations to Boeing! While expected, it has now become clear Boeing is upgrading the 787-8 to become more common with the 787-9 and -10 production standards. It seems this order is mainly aimed at aging 767 and A330 fleet. Expanding the 787 fleet was to expected. It seems a some stage another 40 aircraft must be ordered to replace the 777 fleet on longer heavier flights.


Yes, the 797. That'll bump the 788s up to 789 routes, displacing the 789s to 77E routes. I'd think 40 797s should just about do it.

kevin5345179 wrote:
the only question that really bothers me is who is that idiot PR at Boeing
apparently AA is planning to announce on Monday and some dude decided to put it up first
same story happened on HA 787 order as well ......

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... a4a7143442


Agreed 100%. The Boeing PR team has been like a barrel of monkeys for years.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:43 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Big win for Boeing and a huge blow for Airbus. This positions AA to be an all-Boeing widebody airline. I'm not shocked that the 788 was on the order list. It's the best 763 replacement on the market today, and if 787 costs have been decreased as believed, the 788 might have gained in that area as well. In a way I see this as a strike against the 797. Either AA doesn't believe in it, and/or it's too far away. Losing AA isn't good for the program either way.


The 797, if launched, will EIS in about 2025. I hardly think this 787 order means Boeing lost AA for the 797. I really don’t follow that logic.


The 788 seems like a bit more capable than needed for a lot of the routes being replaced. Were the 797 looking very attractive - and likely - to AA, they might not have gone for the 788. In reality, though, selling the 788 (on Boeing's part) does in its own way put pressure on the A330neo, which was the only other viable alternative for this order.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
texl1649
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:44 am

Let’s not forget any NMA launch will also be the basis for a NSA. AA is likely to be an early user of both. Their max needs are pretty limited since they’ve basically finished off the md80 series at this point.
 
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Erebus
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:49 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Big win for Boeing and a huge blow for Airbus. This positions AA to be an all-Boeing widebody airline. I'm not shocked that the 788 was on the order list. It's the best 763 replacement on the market today, and if 787 costs have been decreased as believed, the 788 might have gained in that area as well. In a way I see this as a strike against the 797. Either AA doesn't believe in it, and/or it's too far away. Losing AA isn't good for the program either way.


The 797, if launched, will EIS in about 2025. I hardly think this 787 order means Boeing lost AA for the 797. I really don’t follow that logic.


One thing that is obvious with today's news is that AA is on a fleet simplification drive. They have the option of going with the A321LR for routes that might be excessive for the 788 should they stick to keeping their fleet simple.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:51 am

soflaflyer wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
In addition to replacing older 772s and 763s, we may see more routes similar to RDU-LHR, such as PIT/CLE/CVG-LHR.

While that would be great to see, AA has already said their strategy does not include flights that do not touch a hub. As of "today" LHR is not considered a hub. But as we all have learned in this business, "never" doesn't exist.


The last time I checked, RDU isn't an AA hub, either. But, they still operate RDU-LHR.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
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1989worstyear
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:51 am

777PHX wrote:
The oldest 77E isn't quite 20 years old yet. I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon.


Their newest 9 767's are only 15 but will be gone in less than two years - so the 77E's could soon follow.

Then again, after 1998 Boeing gave up with the 767, so it makes sense these early 2000's junks are facing a nearly death.

On another note, should we assume the recent 2018-2020 fleet plan is out the window regarding the 763's and A333's, or are the A333's still going to be replaced by the remaining 789's on order? :confused:
Last edited by 1989worstyear on Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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Stitch
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:51 am

MoKa777 wrote:
I mean to ask, before the cancellation, was that order initially deferred? If it was deferred at some point before being cancelled today, for when were deliveries tentatively planned?


It was deferred multiple times, the most recent to Q4 2020.
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:52 am

Congrats to AA for the order, although I kinda wish I would have got to see their livery in the A350 or A330neo.
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:54 am

Stitch wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
I mean to ask, before the cancellation, was that order initially deferred? If it was deferred at some point before being cancelled today, for when were deliveries tentatively planned?


It was deferred multiple times, the most recent to Q4 2020.


Thank you.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:57 am

boxeebox wrote:
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-04-06-Boeing-American-Airlines-Sign-Major-Order-for-47-787-Dreamliners


Interesting how the press release made reference to AA accepting the first delivery of a DC-10 in 1971. I get that Boeing acquired McDonnell Douglas within the past 10-15 years, but did Boeing have any connection to the DC-10/MD-11 project in any way post-acquisition?
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
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B764er
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:59 am

I guess A^A is living up to its name.
Good day for people with American Airlines related handles here in A.net.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:05 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
boxeebox wrote:
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-04-06-Boeing-American-Airlines-Sign-Major-Order-for-47-787-Dreamliners


Interesting how the press release made reference to AA accepting the first delivery of a DC-10 in 1971. I get that Boeing acquired McDonnell Douglas within the past 10-15 years, but did Boeing have any connection to the DC-10/MD-11 project in any way post-acquisition?


No, just using MD's history.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:08 am

OA940 wrote:
Why would AA not be interested in the 797, which was originally conceived as a 757 replacement? Last time I checked they have 757's that need replacing on international routes, and I'm sure the 797 would be much better than a 787 on many TATL routes from PHL and CLT


This order doesn't preclude AA from coming back and ordering fifty 797s, in two years or ten.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:09 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
MoM and A321LR could replace the 757s and some of the 767s
787-8 could replace some the 767s and the A332s
787-9 could replace the 772s and the A333s (which need to go soon)
A350-1000 could replace the 77Ws.

The "possible" AA MoM order would make up the difference in planes they for widebody replacements, but they need planes for growth too, so expect more widebodies unless they order a boatload of MoMs.


There will be NO A350-1000 at AA.

The 777-300ERs are brand new, and if anything is gonna replace them, it's gonna be the 777-9.

797 for 757 replacements, 787s replacing 767s, A330-300s, and perhaps even a few 77Es, and the the 777-9 perhaps.

The A330-200s will probably be phased out at some point. An all-Boeing widebody fleet with 15x A332s? I don't think so.

Anyways, congrats to Boeing and AA!
Last edited by Boeing778X on Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6360
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:13 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Big win for Boeing and a huge blow for Airbus. This positions AA to be an all-Boeing widebody airline. I'm not shocked that the 788 was on the order list. It's the best 763 replacement on the market today, and if 787 costs have been decreased as believed, the 788 might have gained in that area as well. In a way I see this as a strike against the 797. Either AA doesn't believe in it, and/or it's too far away. Losing AA isn't good for the program either way.


The 797, if launched, will EIS in about 2025. I hardly think this 787 order means Boeing lost AA for the 797. I really don’t follow that logic.


The 788 seems like a bit more capable than needed for a lot of the routes being replaced. Were the 797 looking very attractive - and likely - to AA, they might not have gone for the 788. In reality, though, selling the 788 (on Boeing's part) does in its own way put pressure on the A330neo, which was the only other viable alternative for this order.


The 797 isn’t even defined yet. Has nothing to do with today’s 787 order. How does AA know if it’s attractive when it isn’t even finalized or launched yet. You guys are reading too much into this. It’s been oft posted on A.net how their 767s need replacing. What, are they going to wait until 2025?
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:14 am

Continental767 wrote:
89 787s at one airline. Wow.


Yeah, who do they think they are, Emirates?? :biggrin:

It seems to me that, if you are flying AA in the future there is a very good chance you will wind up on a 787!
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3690
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:19 am

I see this as meaning the end of the line for the 777-200ERs at American, with the newest ones sold and the older ones scrapped. The B77Ws can then be all concentrated at DFW and LAX, with JFK finally seeing B789s. What happens with the mid-life B763s could be interesting, but they have value for freighter conversion and they could go too.

As for the 15 A332s, I see them as too new to replace and they can remain domiciled out of Philadelphia. This basically leaves only the 757s as needing replacement.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:25 am

It’s a move that makes sense for AA, but not the end of the world for Airbus.

They still have DL with the A359 and soon enough the A359 will be in the UA fleet. Having them at 2 of the US3 is still a good overall result.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1770
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:35 am

I'm really surprised AA didn't order any 787-10s. Perfect for TATL and South America I thought. But maybe too much capacity.

Also the thread title is giving me a migraine.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9755
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:42 am

As someone who has been following the 767 conversion market, this is great news. A good number of age-appropriate, well-maintained 767s will continue to drop out of AA's fleet. The last 8 or so 767 conversions by Cargo Aircraft Management for the Amazon Prime Air account and for leasing to other carriers worldwide have been of AA retired 767s. The AA stuff that's still in the desert (other than a few recent retirees that CAM has already locked up) is probably too long in the tooth to think about converting, but the ones that will be replaced by 787s are of workable age and cycles. So as the demand for these mid-sized freighters picks up, there should be a good potential stream of new-build freighters (for folks like FedEx and UPS) and conversions (for folks who aren't going to put the hours on them that would tilt the scales towards new-build).
 
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Revelation
Posts: 25012
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:42 am

bigjku wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
It looks like something has changed. I'm not sure just the price. Did I miss a 788 PIP? Say getting the 789 tail?

Lightsaber


The 8 is getting the 9’s tail.

https://www.postandcourier.com/business ... 3d09e.html

Seems then that no HTPs will be coming from Italy any more?

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Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
redwingspilot
Posts: 136
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:47 am

Per company email

Today, we announced an aircraft order for 47 new Boeing 787s to be delivered beginning in 2020: among these are 22 B787-8s and 25 B787-9s all with GE engines. Initially, the B787-8s will replace B767-300s. The B787-9s will replace the A330-300s and the early-generation 777-200s as we work to consolidate and simplify aircraft across our network.

Why did we make this decision?
Not only will the 47 new B787s result in the simplification of our fleet and a more streamlined crew training experience, but the B787 has proven to be a comfortable, reliable and all-around excellent aircraft for us and we decided we wanted more of that kind of consistency. In short: this is about a modern widebody fleet with more interchangeable aircraft.

While this is big news in terms of specific aircraft on order, it doesn’t change the direction of our widebody fleet plan. In other words, these new aircraft are consistent with our previous plans for the size of our widebody fleet.

We also announced today that we will seek to cancel the order for 22 A350s placed by US Airways in 2005. By removing the A350 from our plan, we avoid the complexities associated with adding another aircraft type to our fleet. As for the A350 simulator on property, it has not sat idly by; in fact, we’ve been able to leverage valuable training time over the past many months by renting to other airlines whose demand exceeds their internal training capacity. We expect to have a plan in place for its exit soon.

Regarding narrowbody aircraft, we are deferring delivery on 40 B737 MAX aircraft scheduled to arrive between 2020 and 2022 to 2025/26. We still have our order for 100 B737 MAXes on the books, we’ll just be getting them a little later to avoid having more narrowbodies than we need arriving in such a tight timeframe. We are committed to this aircraft, which is already flying for American today. Also, there is no change to our order of 100 Airbus A321neos, which are due to begin arriving in 2019.



We are very excited about working with Boeing on the new 787s and will keep you up to date once we have more information about specific timing of delivery, configuration and basing.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
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Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:48 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
soflaflyer wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
In addition to replacing older 772s and 763s, we may see more routes similar to RDU-LHR, such as PIT/CLE/CVG-LHR.

While that would be great to see, AA has already said their strategy does not include flights that do not touch a hub. As of "today" LHR is not considered a hub. But as we all have learned in this business, "never" doesn't exist.


The last time I checked, RDU isn't an AA hub, either. But, they still operate RDU-LHR.


That is a special circumstance due to RDU's former status as a AA hub and the seat guarantees companies made for years that allowed AA to keep that route. I could see one of these new 788/9's being used on RDU-LHR, as it seems the 772 used on there now may be a bit too much for that route.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:02 am

It really is a shame that AA will not be taking the 350s. They look like they are very comfortable planes given their width, and they feature the higher humidity levels and big windows. They could have made those birds a flagship experience for longer international flights.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 25001
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:08 am

Per Derek Kerr (AA CFO) employee PR interview the A350 order would have been gone regardless. While a good airplane, it simply did not make sense to absorb another fleet type.

AA tasked manufacturers to come up with a strategy that would both cover 763 replacements and outstanding A350 order. Airbus came back with an A338-A339 offering while Boeing came up with a 788-789 offer.

Regarding the 737MAX deferral, AA did not believe it needed 200 new narrowbodies (100 NEO + 100 MAX) arriving within a very short period, and to better manage capital expenditure felt pushing back 40 frames was prudent. Existing fleets were still young enough to continue in service and the deferral provides better fleet planning timing and cash management.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
wenders825
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:10 am

ADrum23 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
soflaflyer wrote:
While that would be great to see, AA has already said their strategy does not include flights that do not touch a hub. As of "today" LHR is not considered a hub. But as we all have learned in this business, "never" doesn't exist.


The last time I checked, RDU isn't an AA hub, either. But, they still operate RDU-LHR.


That is a special circumstance due to RDU's former status as a AA hub and the seat guarantees companies made for years that allowed AA to keep that route. I could see one of these new 788/9's being used on RDU-LHR, as it seems the 772 used on there now may be a bit too much for that route.


the flight checks in near full (with all 44 business class seats accounted for - by paying pax, not upgraders) on most days. I think the 772 is here to stay.
 
lifecomm
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:29 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:12 am

Congrats to Boeing. Ten years ago I would have bet Delta would be buying mostly Boeing and American Airbus widebodies. Go figure. I guess we will soon be seeing comparison posts about who made the right choice!

I also think that these 788s will be getting the 789 updates: Dash 8 changes
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:14 am

redwingspilot wrote:
Per company email

Today, we announced an aircraft order for 47 new Boeing 787s to be delivered beginning in 2020: among these are 22 B787-8s and 25 B787-9s all with GE engines. Initially, the B787-8s will replace B767-300s. The B787-9s will replace the A330-300s and the early-generation 777-200s as we work to consolidate and simplify aircraft across our network.

Why did we make this decision?
Not only will the 47 new B787s result in the simplification of our fleet and a more streamlined crew training experience, but the B787 has proven to be a comfortable, reliable and all-around excellent aircraft for us and we decided we wanted more of that kind of consistency. In short: this is about a modern widebody fleet with more interchangeable aircraft.

While this is big news in terms of specific aircraft on order, it doesn’t change the direction of our widebody fleet plan. In other words, these new aircraft are consistent with our previous plans for the size of our widebody fleet.

We also announced today that we will seek to cancel the order for 22 A350s placed by US Airways in 2005. By removing the A350 from our plan, we avoid the complexities associated with adding another aircraft type to our fleet. As for the A350 simulator on property, it has not sat idly by; in fact, we’ve been able to leverage valuable training time over the past many months by renting to other airlines whose demand exceeds their internal training capacity. We expect to have a plan in place for its exit soon.

Regarding narrowbody aircraft, we are deferring delivery on 40 B737 MAX aircraft scheduled to arrive between 2020 and 2022 to 2025/26. We still have our order for 100 B737 MAXes on the books, we’ll just be getting them a little later to avoid having more narrowbodies than we need arriving in such a tight timeframe. We are committed to this aircraft, which is already flying for American today. Also, there is no change to our order of 100 Airbus A321neos, which are due to begin arriving in 2019.



We are very excited about working with Boeing on the new 787s and will keep you up to date once we have more information about specific timing of delivery, configuration and basing.


Why did they do an about face with the A333's? I thought those were supposed to be retired in 2020?

Also, why the he'll did they order those last 763's so recently? Their fleet planning blows my mind sometimes.
Last edited by 1989worstyear on Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: AA ORDERS 47 787 FROM BOEING????

Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:15 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
soflaflyer wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
In addition to replacing older 772s and 763s, we may see more routes similar to RDU-LHR, such as PIT/CLE/CVG-LHR.

While that would be great to see, AA has already said their strategy does not include flights that do not touch a hub. As of "today" LHR is not considered a hub. But as we all have learned in this business, "never" doesn't exist.


The last time I checked, RDU isn't an AA hub, either. But, they still operate RDU-LHR.


I believe the statement from AA was related to new routes.
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