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Austin787
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:49 am

Swadian wrote:
What ideas do y'all have for Asia expansion? Secondary China? NGO/KIX? LAX-SIN? DFW-TPE? More ICN?

Maybe start routes to hubs that currently have no service to Asia, such as PHX-NRT or PHL-NRT. 787 would be ideal aircraft for those routes.
 
QXAS
Posts: 368
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:18 am

Austin787 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
What ideas do y'all have for Asia expansion? Secondary China? NGO/KIX? LAX-SIN? DFW-TPE? More ICN?

Maybe start routes to hubs that currently have no service to Asia, such as PHX-NRT or PHL-NRT. 787 would be ideal aircraft for those routes.

I don’t see PHX happening. There’s currently one intercontinental and it’s on Oneworld partner British Airways. If AA was going to operate intercontinentals from PHX I think thy already would be. Interestingly, PHX has a DC-10 parking line still painted on its international gates, as well as a 727 parking line. Regardless, I’d be thrilled to see international service from PHX to Asia on AA 787s, but that’s what AA uses LAX for.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:31 am

Swadian wrote:
fightforlove wrote:
william wrote:
Not sure why we are suprised the 787-8s will be replacing the 767-300s when thats kind of what it was designed to be.


I'm not surprised either. Most carriers are leaning towards the economics and upgraded capacity of the -9, but AA are a frequencies carrier and need more -8s for their South America and Europe routes, plus further long-thin Asia route expansion. The only question now is when will they exercise the large number of remaining options (39 in total if my math serves me correct) and what variants will they be? Does the 787-10 have a future in AA's fleet?


What ideas do y'all have for Asia expansion? Secondary China? NGO/KIX? LAX-SIN? DFW-TPE? More ICN?


I don’t see any secondary cities. More frequency HKG maybe ICN.

Has far has SIN well they have UA also along with Singapore airlines I say no way no need.

I’d like to see Malaysia flight LAX KUL I Know MA has been beat up but I’ve used them quite a bit up front and if the the NRT fuel stop could be eliminated, (not sure) I think all the options from there big hub (one world) would Could work.

Really I don’t see Any real expansion won’t come until we know the fate of Qantas Airlines JV.
 
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Rookie87
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:30 am

Swadian wrote:
fightforlove wrote:
william wrote:
Not sure why we are suprised the 787-8s will be replacing the 767-300s when thats kind of what it was designed to be.


I'm not surprised either. Most carriers are leaning towards the economics and upgraded capacity of the -9, but AA are a frequencies carrier and need more -8s for their South America and Europe routes, plus further long-thin Asia route expansion. The only question now is when will they exercise the large number of remaining options (39 in total if my math serves me correct) and what variants will they be? Does the 787-10 have a future in AA's fleet?


What ideas do y'all have for Asia expansion? Secondary China? NGO/KIX? LAX-SIN? DFW-TPE? More ICN?



I have a feeling we maybe could see some Tokyo expansion or frequency increase out of DFW. Speculation of course due to Toyota.
The 787s will replace all 767 flying from what it looks like and rumors are flying around that the 777 will also move to PHX so we shall see what the new year will bring. Exciting times ahead! I’m still shocked AA is letting go of the 767 so fast.
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3642
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:37 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
777PHX wrote:
The oldest 77E isn't quite 20 years old yet. I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon.



Then again, after 1998 Boeing gave up with the 767, so it makes sense these early 2000's junks are facing a nearly death.



Where do get this? I’d say that is not correct at all. Boeing made a lot of improvements to the 767 after 1998. Those 2003 built 767s came with the New Look Interior, Pegasus FMCs with GPS and RNP capability, other avionics upgrades.

amazingly, they have non-FADEC engines for commonality with their older 767s, but Boeing probably wouldn’t have done that for almost anyone other than AA.


I had no idea they were non FADEC. That must drop interest in them on the used market
 
sagechan
Posts: 362
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:56 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
What ideas do y'all have for Asia expansion? Secondary China? NGO/KIX? LAX-SIN? DFW-TPE? More ICN?

Maybe start routes to hubs that currently have no service to Asia, such as PHX-NRT or PHL-NRT. 787 would be ideal aircraft for those routes.


I dont think AA has a lot of Asian expansion left, at this point i think AA is playing the let our routes mature game. Having said that Id guess if any expansion were to happen to Asia, LAX-ICN as then AA will have eveey major business segment frim LAX sans SIN. Then DFW-KIX if Toyota wants to pay something to get it started, though JAL could potentially run it as well. NRT-PHL/PHX/MIA are all remotely possible but unlikely beyond maybe some one off Olympic routes.

CAN is a possibility if 1) China Southern enters One World and 2) more frequencies open up, otherwise wont happen.

For TPAC, MEL and BNE probably both likely of JV approved.
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Boof02671
Posts: 2491
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:47 pm

777 to PHX?

AA only send the occasional 330 from CLT to there.
 
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Momo1435
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Tue May 08, 2018 3:52 pm

Boeing has revealed it's monthly orders for April, the AA order turns out to be rather interesting.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

American Airlines - 25x 787-9
Boeing Capital Corporation - 22x 787-8

So AA will lease 22 787-8s from Boeing.

Could this be a stopgap measure before Boeing launches the 797 with AA as launch customer? With the 787-8 leases expiring when the 797 will be joining AA's fleet from the mid 2020s?
 
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Jayafe
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Tue May 08, 2018 4:00 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing has revealed it's monthly orders for April, the AA order turns out to be rather interesting.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

American Airlines - 25x 787-9
Boeing Capital Corporation - 22x 787-8

So AA will lease 22 787-8s from Boeing.

Could this be a stopgap measure before Boeing launches the 797 with AA as launch customer?


It's more a bribe to offer discounts and better financial conditions than competitors, jumping off market rules. All good, nothing to see here...

Momo1435 wrote:
With the 787-8 leases expiring when the 797 will be joining AA's fleet from the mid 2020s?


Unrealistic as long as long as it's still a paper plane, with no defined specifications.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2626
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Tue May 08, 2018 4:08 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing has revealed it's monthly orders for April, the AA order turns out to be rather interesting.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

American Airlines - 25x 787-9
Boeing Capital Corporation - 22x 787-8

So AA will lease 22 787-8s from Boeing.

Could this be a stopgap measure before Boeing launches the 797 with AA as launch customer?


It's more a bribe to offer discounts and better financial conditions than competitors, jumping off market rules. All good, nothing to see here...

Momo1435 wrote:
With the 787-8 leases expiring when the 797 will be joining AA's fleet from the mid 2020s?


Unrealistic as long as long as it's still a paper plane, with no defined specifications.


A "bribe" seems a bit aggressive. For one, AA seems to want 788s, which Boeing hasn't apparently wanted to sell given the higher margin on the 789. As for why Boeing offered to lease the 788s, it is unclear, perhaps AA is concerned about resale value (which seems less of an issue for the US3 that generally fly an aircraft for its useful life). Perhaps it is a measure for the MOM, which no is not "unrealistic" given that Boeing and airlines have confirmed the existence of conversations and research. It is not far fetched to imagine a clause in the lease agreement permitting early returns if a new aircraft within certain parameters is offered - I'm sure AA would define those parameters to meet what it wants, not just any MOM.
 
CX747
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Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Tue May 08, 2018 4:13 pm

The leasing of the 787-8s makes perfect sense. They want/need new fuel efficient lift now BUT want the option to switch to potentially newer technology (797), should that become available sooner rather than later.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2297
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Tue May 08, 2018 4:15 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing has revealed it's monthly orders for April, the AA order turns out to be rather interesting.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

American Airlines - 25x 787-9
Boeing Capital Corporation - 22x 787-8

So AA will lease 22 787-8s from Boeing.

Could this be a stopgap measure before Boeing launches the 797 with AA as launch customer? With the 787-8 leases expiring when the 797 will be joining AA's fleet from the mid 2020s?

It could also be a way to avoid owning these -8's if they turn out to be the unwanted sibling of the 787 family, eclipsed on long-haul by the 787-9 and on medium haul by the yet-to-be-launched MoM. Much like the 767-200 ended up getting squished between the 757 (and later A321) from below and the 767-300ER from above.
 
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Polot
Posts: 11191
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Tue May 08, 2018 4:21 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing has revealed it's monthly orders for April, the AA order turns out to be rather interesting.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

American Airlines - 25x 787-9
Boeing Capital Corporation - 22x 787-8

So AA will lease 22 787-8s from Boeing.

Could this be a stopgap measure before Boeing launches the 797 with AA as launch customer?


It's more a bribe to offer discounts and better financial conditions than competitors, jumping off market rules. All good, nothing to see here...

Airbus is free to provide their own financing for orders as well...which is something they do.

Jayafe wrote:
...

Momo1435 wrote:
With the 787-8 leases expiring when the 797 will be joining AA's fleet from the mid 2020s?


Unrealistic as long as long as it's still a paper plane, with no defined specifications.

Let’s hope Boeing doesn’t launch a 797 this year, or this forum would be filled with threads from people questioning how Boeing could already have commitments for a plane lined up before launch.
 
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Revelation
Posts: 25224
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Tue May 08, 2018 4:25 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
A "bribe" seems a bit aggressive.

But it fits a narrative popular here on a.net, so one can use words like "bribe" without any substantiation at all.

Meanwhile Airbus just paid $99M to settle one allegation of bribery, and still is being denied access to ex-im due to other pending investigations ( ref: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1FT2GB ).

Ironic, isn't it?

jbs2886 wrote:
For one, AA seems to want 788s, which Boeing hasn't apparently wanted to sell given the higher margin on the 789. As for why Boeing offered to lease the 788s, it is unclear, perhaps AA is concerned about resale value (which seems less of an issue for the US3 that generally fly an aircraft for its useful life). Perhaps it is a measure for the MOM, which no is not "unrealistic" given that Boeing and airlines have confirmed the existence of conversations and research. It is not far fetched to imagine a clause in the lease agreement permitting early returns if a new aircraft within certain parameters is offered - I'm sure AA would define those parameters to meet what it wants, not just any MOM.

Yes, and like most leases should have a buy-out clause in case AA wants to keep them at the end of the lease.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Momo1435
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Tue May 08, 2018 10:17 pm

The reason why I mentioned the 787 was because Leehamnews had an article last year concerning the fate of the fate of the A350 order and the replacement of the 767 at AA where they said the following:

https://leehamnews.com/2017/09/28/ameri ... ix-months/

"Boeing is pitching a re-order of the 787-8 and the New Midrange Aircraft (NMA), which Kerr says that as presented is of great interest."


And indeed there will most likely be a buy-out clause, maybe even in both directions. Although if Boeing doesn't launch the 797 and the 787-8s will remain in AA's fleet for a longer period Boeing could always sell them to an actual leasing company or an investor. All in all It's a smart way to have more flexibility.
 
Swadian
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: American Airlines orders 47 additional 787's (22 788's and 25 789's), cancels A350 order

Thu May 17, 2018 7:44 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
The reason why I mentioned the 787 was because Leehamnews had an article last year concerning the fate of the fate of the A350 order and the replacement of the 767 at AA where they said the following:

https://leehamnews.com/2017/09/28/ameri ... ix-months/

"Boeing is pitching a re-order of the 787-8 and the New Midrange Aircraft (NMA), which Kerr says that as presented is of great interest."


And indeed there will most likely be a buy-out clause, maybe even in both directions. Although if Boeing doesn't launch the 797 and the 787-8s will remain in AA's fleet for a longer period Boeing could always sell them to an actual leasing company or an investor. All in all It's a smart way to have more flexibility.


Can't Boeing just sell those 788 to AA if the 797 tanks?

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