vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:31 pm

sand26391 wrote:
unrave wrote:
Surat Airport has reached 42 ATM a day this month. WWAWAS should probably stop spamming airline social media pages now.


Next they want non stop EU flights, just imagine them spamming all those EU airline social media pages.


I am not from Surat nor hold anything WWAWAS clowns in high esteem. However they seem to have a pulse on how India’s political class operates.

Back to business, STV could easily support 3 ME3 plus a Brussels/AMS and Tel Aviv flights. Will come at the cost of BOM.

Now waiting for the Bombay hub guys to come out of the woodwork.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:39 pm

lightsaber wrote:
zionite wrote:
binayak wrote:
Didn't have to imagine when I saw one of their tweets tagging British Airways!!

They should tag brussels airlines. Considering Surat and Antwerp are closely connected due to diamond industry, they should find some good O&D traffic and valuable cargo.

Surat, Antwerp, Dubai (trade) and Mumbai. I happen to know the individual who moved the diamond industry (mostly) from Israel to India (I can claim to be his first employee! He just needed someone to trust with $250,000 as a courier... It was a learning experience.


So there is the issue, Dubai is a major trading hub, so it will naturally be a lucrative stop for those in the industry.
I'm fascinated by how much the industry has changed and is now software rather than skill. It is not the industry I worked in decades ago.

Lightsaber


Dubai offered great advantages for money laundering. The liberal air treaties had more to do with wealthy Indians finding a short hop to manage bijnes.

As you move towards a ‘rules-based’ regime, these advantages decline. Nevertheless DXB has reached a critical mass that will extend its presence for a long time in the future. If anything BOM will look more like CCU unless the state steps in to unleash Bombay.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:11 pm

vadodara wrote:

As you move towards a ‘rules-based’ regime, these advantages decline. Nevertheless DXB has reached a critical mass that will extend its presence for a long time in the future. If anything BOM will look more like CCU unless the state steps in to unleash Bombay.

Really ??? :lol: First of all your reasoning that "major chunk of BOM traffic comes from Surat, Rajkot, Bhuj, AMD, Nashik etc" is the latest gibberish being spread on A.net and has no kind of justification. So it will be nice if you enter the real world soon mate.

vadodara wrote:

I am not from Surat nor hold anything WWAWAS clowns in high esteem. However they seem to have a pulse on how India’s political class operates.

Back to business, STV could easily support 3 ME3 plus a Brussels/AMS and Tel Aviv flights. Will come at the cost of BOM.

Now waiting for the Bombay hub guys to come out of the woodwork.


Wow . What is the PDEW b/w STV and AMS ? Any numbers? The matter of fact is Surat produces pax for these places but they are not enough to justify a flight b/w the 2. I can bet you even IndiGo/Spicejet won't try STV-AMS/BRU anytime. And BOM does not depend on STV for its AMS flights at all.
Having 100% growth in domestic market has NOTHING to do with long haul potential.

Next time while making any kind of such claims , work with logic and not emotions . And if possible show some numbers too.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:17 pm

binayak wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
binayak wrote:
Then is SFO a 77W now?


Occasionally yes, however the subs are only every couple days.


Then that means AI's 77Ws can do DEL SFO non stop. Then their fleet can be better utilized by flying the idle 77Ws in DEL - US flights and use the 77Ls to start BOM - ORD / SFO.

Yes they can. Ever since AI started flying the easterly route, they have now and then sent the 77W to SFO so that's not new per say. But they also send the 77L to IAD. So BOM - ORD/SFO will require both AI173 and AI183 to go 77W.

vadodara wrote:
If anything BOM will look more like CCU unless the state steps in to unleash Bombay.

The state has taken the step in the right direction recently. The word "Maharaj" has been officially added to name of the airport. :lol:
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:04 pm

VTORD wrote:
binayak wrote:
Irehdna wrote:

Occasionally yes, however the subs are only every couple days.


Then that means AI's 77Ws can do DEL SFO non stop. Then their fleet can be better utilized by flying the idle 77Ws in DEL - US flights and use the 77Ls to start BOM - ORD / SFO.

Yes they can. Ever since AI started flying the easterly route, they have now and then sent the 77W to SFO so that's not new per say. But they also send the 77L to IAD. So BOM - ORD/SFO will require both AI173 and AI183 to go 77W.
:


If the news about 5 77Ws of AI lying idle are true then IMO this might be a better utilization of fleet. Let the 77Ws do the DEL flights and make the 77Ls do ULH from BOM probably to ORD/SFO. In fact after the massive widebody order in 2005, the immediate plan was to make the 77Ls fly BOM/BLR to US west coast .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:05 pm

vadodara wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
unrave wrote:
Surat Airport has reached 42 ATM a day this month. WWAWAS should probably stop spamming airline social media pages now.


Next they want non stop EU flights, just imagine them spamming all those EU airline social media pages.


I am not from Surat nor hold anything WWAWAS clowns in high esteem. However they seem to have a pulse on how India’s political class operates.

Back to business, STV could easily support 3 ME3 plus a Brussels/AMS and Tel Aviv flights. Will come at the cost of BOM.

Now waiting for the Bombay hub guys to come out of the woodwork.


Any proof to your factless statements??
To DXB/AUH any city can support a non stop flight. Other than that all your statements are juat claims.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:12 pm

I'm thinking DEL-SFO will become 77W to allow BOM-JFK/ORD to be on 77L. BOM-JFK is longer than DEL-SFO by about 160km, btw. ORD is even longer.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:45 pm

sand26391 wrote:
vadodara wrote:
sand26391 wrote:

Next they want non stop EU flights, just imagine them spamming all those EU airline social media pages.


I am not from Surat nor hold anything WWAWAS clowns in high esteem. However they seem to have a pulse on how India’s political class operates.

Back to business, STV could easily support 3 ME3 plus a Brussels/AMS and Tel Aviv flights. Will come at the cost of BOM.

Now waiting for the Bombay hub guys to come out of the woodwork.


Any proof to your factless statements??
To DXB/AUH any city can support a non stop flight. Other than that all your statements are juat claims.


Hmmm! Wouldnt this be a chicken and egg situation. How would you gather 'actual' proof without a flight to actually land?

Btw, if you want data please check the growth #'s for AMD.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:46 pm

binayak wrote:
Next time while making any kind of such claims , work with logic and not emotions . And if possible show some numbers too.


Did Jet Airways pay your salary today?
 
mayank28
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:05 pm

vadodara wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
vadodara wrote:

I am not from Surat nor hold anything WWAWAS clowns in high esteem. However they seem to have a pulse on how India’s political class operates.

Back to business, STV could easily support 3 ME3 plus a Brussels/AMS and Tel Aviv flights. Will come at the cost of BOM.

Now waiting for the Bombay hub guys to come out of the woodwork.


Any proof to your factless statements??
To DXB/AUH any city can support a non stop flight. Other than that all your statements are juat claims.


Hmmm! Wouldnt this be a chicken and egg situation. How would you gather 'actual' proof without a flight to actually land?

Btw, if you want data please check the growth #'s for AMD.

Growth numbers for FY 17-18: AMD (+23.9), HYD (+20.2), PNQ(+20.6), CCU(25.7)

Growth numbers for FY16-17:AMD (+14.3), HYD (+21.3), PNQ(+25.3), CCU(+24.0)

AMD numbers seem to be at par with other metros of close size. So what's your point?
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:09 pm

vadodara wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
vadodara wrote:

I am not from Surat nor hold anything WWAWAS clowns in high esteem. However they seem to have a pulse on how India’s political class operates.

Back to business, STV could easily support 3 ME3 plus a Brussels/AMS and Tel Aviv flights. Will come at the cost of BOM.

Now waiting for the Bombay hub guys to come out of the woodwork.


Any proof to your factless statements??
To DXB/AUH any city can support a non stop flight. Other than that all your statements are juat claims.


Hmmm! Wouldnt this be a chicken and egg situation. How would you gather 'actual' proof without a flight to actually land?

Btw, if you want data please check the growth #'s for AMD.


Uhmmm.. this is not about AMD. Please show some proof that Atleast 100 STV pax fly to AMS/TLV on a daily basis. Try to get the unserved cities from STV in 2017-18 (Int'l) or O&D numbers from STV-AMS/TLV.... till then this discussion will go on. If you cannot, then its all claims you hear from various forums & none of it is true.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:23 pm

vadodara wrote:
binayak wrote:
Next time while making any kind of such claims , work with logic and not emotions . And if possible show some numbers too.


Did Jet Airways pay your salary today?


I am not their employee and I was never . Nice idea. You had no answer to my question and so tried trolling .So sorry your troll didn't work . Better luck next time mate.

And if you are taking growth % as a benchmark , let me tell you that those % are for domestic and have NOTHING to do with long haul.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:26 pm

sand26391 wrote:

Uhmmm.. this is not about AMD. Please show some proof that Atleast 100 STV pax fly to AMS/TLV on a daily basis. Try to get the unserved cities from STV in 2017-18 (Int'l) or O&D numbers from STV-AMS/TLV.... till then this discussion will go on. If you cannot, then its all claims you hear from various forums & none of it is true.


He won't . He'll throw baseless remarks out of emotion in this aviation forums and when he'll reach a dead end , he'll try trolling you in every way he can just like this

vadodara wrote:
Did Jet Airways pay your salary today?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
yashk
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:28 pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vt-alr

Does anyone know why this 77W did DEL-FRA-ORD-FRA-DEL as AI1A?
 
CHIMAA
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:54 pm

yashk wrote:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vt-alr

Does anyone know why this 77W did DEL-FRA-ORD-FRA-DEL as AI1A?

Vice president of India- Venkaiah Naidu's Trip for World Hindu Congress Meeting,
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:05 pm

mayank28 wrote:
vadodara wrote:
sand26391 wrote:

Any proof to your factless statements??
To DXB/AUH any city can support a non stop flight. Other than that all your statements are juat claims.


Hmmm! Wouldnt this be a chicken and egg situation. How would you gather 'actual' proof without a flight to actually land?

Btw, if you want data please check the growth #'s for AMD.

Growth numbers for FY 17-18: AMD (+23.9), HYD (+20.2), PNQ(+20.6), CCU(25.7)

Growth numbers for FY16-17:AMD (+14.3), HYD (+21.3), PNQ(+25.3), CCU(+24.0)

AMD numbers seem to be at par with other metros of close size. So what's your point?


Thanks for proving my point. Pl. read what the previous poster had stated. Right now, STV is showing some crazy growth #'s. Obviously, they are from a smaller base. However, once they stabilize and reach around 20-25%, it goes to prove my point that STV can sustain demand.

Same hold's true for other secondary airports. I used AMD as an example to prove a point to some Bombay hub wallah's here.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:09 pm

binayak wrote:

He won't . He'll throw baseless remarks out of emotion in this aviation forums and when he'll reach a dead end , he'll try trolling you in every way he can just like this

vadodara wrote:
Did Jet Airways pay your salary today?


Instead of begging the govt. to give you a LHR slot, why not go to the open market and purchase one? After all, Jet Airways is the Emirates killer.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:22 pm

vadodara wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
unrave wrote:
Surat Airport has reached 42 ATM a day this month. WWAWAS should probably stop spamming airline social media pages now.


Next they want non stop EU flights, just imagine them spamming all those EU airline social media pages.


I am not from Surat nor hold anything WWAWAS clowns in high esteem. However they seem to have a pulse on how India’s political class operates.

Back to business, STV could easily support 3 ME3 plus a Brussels/AMS and Tel Aviv flights. Will come at the cost of BOM.

Now waiting for the Bombay hub guys to come out of the woodwork.


As others of said, you need to look at how many pax actually fly every day between STV and AMS, TLV, BRU. I think you will be surprised how low those numbers are. Also as STV builds a solid middle class (meaning wealth by western standards), all airlines will fight to push STV pax through their hubs. This in turn will make long haul flights that much harder. Finally, I am willing to bet many STV merchants flying to TLV, AMS, BRU etc stop in BOM on the outbound or inbound. BOM is basically a Gujarati city with many Gujarati business families maintaining either their primary residence or a strong pretense in BOM (be it family wise or business).
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:56 am

Seems that all AI USA flights other than JFK were delayed to 0700 IST today. Perhaps there were issues with multiple 77W's and they had one spare 77L aircraft, which they chose to put on JFK since that is their most important US route.

Additionally, VT-ALQ has been stuck at EWR for nearly 2 days now, after diverting from JFK. There was a similar instance a couple weeks last year where AI127 was diverted to RFD, but the plane flew RFD-ORD a couple hours latter. It does not seem that VT-ALQ has flown EWR-JFK to disembark passengers or prepare for the day's AI102. What I would imagine is that AI chartered some type of bus from EWR-JFK since the drive time is only 1-1.5 hours in regular traffic.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:13 am

vadodara wrote:
binayak wrote:

He won't . He'll throw baseless remarks out of emotion in this aviation forums and when he'll reach a dead end , he'll try trolling you in every way he can just like this

vadodara wrote:
Did Jet Airways pay your salary today?


Instead of begging the govt. to give you a LHR slot, why not go to the open market and purchase one? After all, Jet Airways is the Emirates killer.

Baseless troll once again. Factually incorrect. Show some sources that they needed LHR slots from govt.
And finally get a life.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
mayank28
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:29 am

vadodara wrote:
mayank28 wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Hmmm! Wouldnt this be a chicken and egg situation. How would you gather 'actual' proof without a flight to actually land?

Btw, if you want data please check the growth #'s for AMD.

Growth numbers for FY 17-18: AMD (+23.9), HYD (+20.2), PNQ(+20.6), CCU(25.7)

Growth numbers for FY16-17:AMD (+14.3), HYD (+21.3), PNQ(+25.3), CCU(+24.0)

AMD numbers seem to be at par with other metros of close size. So what's your point?


Thanks for proving my point. Pl. read what the previous poster had stated. Right now, STV is showing some crazy growth #'s. Obviously, they are from a smaller base. However, once they stabilize and reach around 20-25%, it goes to prove my point that STV can sustain demand.

Same hold's true for other secondary airports. I used AMD as an example to prove a point to some Bombay hub wallah's here.

How does any of this prove demand for AMS or TLV from Surat?

As you said STV growth numbers are from a smaller base and the numbers are anyway for domestic traffic. Can STV sustain domestic flights? Sure. AMS or TLV? I would think unlikely.
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:15 am

mayank28 wrote:
vadodara wrote:
mayank28 wrote:
Growth numbers for FY 17-18: AMD (+23.9), HYD (+20.2), PNQ(+20.6), CCU(25.7)

Growth numbers for FY16-17:AMD (+14.3), HYD (+21.3), PNQ(+25.3), CCU(+24.0)

AMD numbers seem to be at par with other metros of close size. So what's your point?


Thanks for proving my point. Pl. read what the previous poster had stated. Right now, STV is showing some crazy growth #'s. Obviously, they are from a smaller base. However, once they stabilize and reach around 20-25%, it goes to prove my point that STV can sustain demand.

Same hold's true for other secondary airports. I used AMD as an example to prove a point to some Bombay hub wallah's here.

How does any of this prove demand for AMS or TLV from Surat?

As you said STV growth numbers are from a smaller base and the numbers are anyway for domestic traffic. Can STV sustain domestic flights? Sure. AMS or TLV? I would think unlikely.


Exactly! This person has shown no proof of any sort to tell us that there is enough demand to TLV,AMS,BRU from Surat. All he keeps talking about is domestic growth rates & all that witch is of no use on this context. Till you show proof that there is enough demand from STV to these destinations... it's all claims. You keep saying that BOM would become like CCU if the likes if STV folks get intl ops. Any proof of this? Do you have the % share of the Surti pax flying from BOM in 2017-18? Please go ask STV APD about the O&D numbers btw STV & TLV/AMS/BRU in FY 2017-18. Please don't reply saying "AMD % growth rates are higher and all the nonsense which has no context. We need proof like this:-

Q2 2018
BLR-LHR O&D pax (PDEW on BLR LHR in Q2= ~296)
Image
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:50 am

To conclude :
Someone is disgruntled by the fact that his state doesn't have a city like BOM and might have even forgotten which is the financial hub of the country and thus keeps on saying that all the small cities of his state can sustain demand to any la la land by posting some (domestic) growth numbers. The same person has also said that only because of AI & 9W those small cities are not having more "khakra long hauls" but indigo/spice has led to the growth of those cities . So let me ask 6E and SG are not limited by any means to which cities they can start long hauls from. Then if according to that poster market from STV is so good , then why doesn't 6E start the routes he wants. They've already started pan India service from STV. They can start long hauls to satisfy these people more.

My word : If 6E/SG even takes over the AMD- LHR route , leave aside long haul from STV ,I'll take back everything I said . But if the reverse happens then I hope he'll open his eyes to see the truth and leaves aside his posts ( which are written out of emotion ).
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:03 am

^^ AFAIK Air India Express is interested to start STV-SHJ in the Winter Schedule 2018/19. Other than SHJ, .... GCC routes from STV (ME3) are viable. I dont see anyother EU routes possible from STV anytime soon. Maybe 6E/SG cud start STV-SIN in the near future. But not sure if there is a strong O&D market btw STV & SIN. End of the day there's been no intrest from any airline other than AIX to start Int'l ops from STV. I have seen no EU or GCC airline wanting to fly to STV even from news reports (not WWWAS representative quotes from ToI). Domestic growth at STV has been growing and thats good enough for the short-mid term, but I don't see any long haul intl ops from STV anytime soon (unless some1 shows the PDEW numbers or something relatable on STV-AMS/BRU/TLV sectors)
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:40 am

More than Surat, places like Pune and Kolkata need more international flights, more so long haul.

There are so many more bigger, vibrant and promising cities that need more international ops like MAA, COK, PNQ, CCU, JAI.

I think Surat has a long way to go in that regard. They barely started out in the domestic front and need to prove if they can sustain that before moving on to short haul Int'l like DXB.
Long haul seems like decades away for them. They sure do contribute to some of the traffic at bigger airports albeit in smaller numbers compared to the large chunk of O&D traffic at those airports, but again most such towns/villages do feed, not just one. That however doesn't justify long haul ops from those places.
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:09 pm

Indeed STV has a very long way to go b4 any EU carrier arrives. For now they shud be happy and look forward to the GCC connections like SHJ/AUH/DXB. Maybe 9W can do 3x or 5x weekly STV-AUH to help Surtis connect to the rest of the world.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:22 pm

mayank28 wrote:
vadodara wrote:
mayank28 wrote:
Growth numbers for FY 17-18: AMD (+23.9), HYD (+20.2), PNQ(+20.6), CCU(25.7)

Growth numbers for FY16-17:AMD (+14.3), HYD (+21.3), PNQ(+25.3), CCU(+24.0)

AMD numbers seem to be at par with other metros of close size. So what's your point?


Thanks for proving my point. Pl. read what the previous poster had stated. Right now, STV is showing some crazy growth #'s. Obviously, they are from a smaller base. However, once they stabilize and reach around 20-25%, it goes to prove my point that STV can sustain demand.

Same hold's true for other secondary airports. I used AMD as an example to prove a point to some Bombay hub wallah's here.

How does any of this prove demand for AMS or TLV from Surat?

As you said STV growth numbers are from a smaller base and the numbers are anyway for domestic traffic. Can STV sustain domestic flights? Sure. AMS or TLV? I would think unlikely.


You are entitled to your opinion. However I was responding to Lightsaber who seems to have an inside knowledge of how diamond industry works.

I used AMD as a reference point, similar demography. If anything Surat/Bardoli/Navasari/Valsad/Vapi is a very wealthy market. Take the total traffic and assume a fraction to be international. Diverting that traffic away from BOM should put a dent in someone’s top line.

Yes if I were a Jet Airways employee, starting international service at Surat might be the last straw that breaks my ‘hub’. Get over with it, it will happen.
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:24 pm

avier wrote:
More than Surat, places like Pune and Kolkata need more international flights, more so long haul.

There are so many more bigger, vibrant and promising cities that need more international ops like MAA, COK, PNQ, CCU, JAI.

I think Surat has a long way to go in that regard. They barely started out in the domestic front and need to prove if they can sustain that before moving on to short haul Int'l like DXB.
Long haul seems like decades away for them. They sure do contribute to some of the traffic at bigger airports albeit in smaller numbers compared to the large chunk of O&D traffic at those airports, but again most such towns/villages do feed, not just one. That however doesn't justify long haul ops from those places.


Isn’t this the point of the WWAS or whatever? Why are we ‘blocked’ from getting service!
 
vadodara
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:26 pm

sand26391 wrote:
Indeed STV has a very long way to go b4 any EU carrier arrives. For now they shud be happy and look forward to the GCC connections like SHJ/AUH/DXB. Maybe 9W can do 3x or 5x weekly STV-AUH to help Surtis connect to the rest of the world.


Indeed, Jet Airways employees, travel agents etc have their own personal interest here.

Why should the Surti’s be beholden to that?
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:33 pm

Just did the math, created the following hypothetical winter BOM-USA schedule that would allow daily JFK/ORD on 3 77L:

AI141 2330 BOM - JFK 0545+1 77L D
AI140 0900 JFK - BOM 1020+1 77L D

AI129 1230 BOM - ORD 1700 77L D
AI128 1900 ORD - BOM 2130+1 77L D

Would 2 hour stops at each airport be enough?
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:48 pm

vadodara wrote:

Isn’t this the point of the WWAS or whatever? Why are we ‘blocked’ from getting service!


No city is "blocked" from such services. STV has instead even got an international tag now. Its the question of viability on an all year-round basis for international flights.

Even Pune, being a bigger city than Surat, doesn't have proper long haul flights yet (they lost they only Europe connection on the BBJ) , so yes I doubt STV will be able to sustain them. It can follow the model being used at places like COK,TRV,CCJ,IXE,ATQ,JAI,GOI,PNQ of having connections to ME3 hubs or south-east asian hubs like SIN/BKK and from there connect virtually to the rest of the world. Thats the only model that will work for Surat's Int'l ops and nothing more at least for the foreseaable future. Long-haul has barely reached all of India's major metro's beyond BOM/DEL, so thats really wishful thinking for the non-metro's.
 
binayak
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:03 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Just did the math, created the following hypothetical winter BOM-USA schedule that would allow daily JFK/ORD on 3 77L:

AI141 2330 BOM - JFK 0545+1 77L D
AI140 0900 JFK - BOM 1020+1 77L D

AI129 1230 BOM - ORD 1700 77L D
AI128 1900 ORD - BOM 2130+1 77L D

Would 2 hour stops at each airport be enough?

Just one issue .. with the JFK and ORD flights departing BOM at different timings , will both of them be able to have proper domestic feed ? I doubt whether there is any bank of AI to feed a 1230 departing long haul flight.

sand26391 wrote:
Indeed STV has a very long way to go b4 any EU carrier arrives. For now they shud be happy and look forward to the GCC connections like SHJ/AUH/DXB. Maybe 9W can do 3x or 5x weekly STV-AUH to help Surtis connect to the rest of the world.


avier wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Isn’t this the point of the WWAS or whatever? Why are we ‘blocked’ from getting service!


No city is "blocked" from such services. STV has instead even got an international tag now. Its the question of viability on an all year-round basis for international flights.

Even Pune, being a bigger city than Surat, doesn't have proper long haul flights yet (they lost they only Europe connection on the BBJ) , so yes I doubt STV will be able to sustain them. It can follow the model being used at places like COK,TRV,CCJ,IXE,ATQ,JAI,GOI,PNQ of having connections to ME3 hubs or south-east asian hubs like SIN/BKK and from there connect virtually to the rest of the world. Thats the only model that will work for Surat's Int'l ops and nothing more at least for the foreseaable future. Long-haul has barely reached all of India's major metro's beyond BOM/DEL, so thats really wishful thinking for the non-metro's.


I think we should now stop explaining these things. Same things were told to him earlier multiple times but he is too stubborn currently and will quote anyone as a 9W/AI employee . Well he should now confess who he works for . The discussion in this page has been on a simple gibberish spread out by one person and in spite of all of us trying different ways to explain him, he's stuck there

.
vadodara wrote:

I used AMD as a reference point, similar demography. If anything Surat/Bardoli/Navasari/Valsad/Vapi is a very wealthy market. Take the total traffic and assume a fraction to be international. Diverting that traffic away from BOM should put a dent in someone’s top line.

Right there . BOM (richest city in India) is very poor you know!!

vadodara wrote:
Yes if I were a Jet Airways employee, starting international service at Surat might be the last straw that breaks my ‘hub’. Get over with it, it will happen.

Yes waiting for your favorite airlines to start long hauls you want. Go fast and contact them .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
VTORD
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:08 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Just did the math, created the following hypothetical winter BOM-USA schedule that would allow daily JFK/ORD on 3 77L:

AI141 2330 BOM - JFK 0545+1 77L D
AI140 0900 JFK - BOM 1020+1 77L D

AI129 1230 BOM - ORD 1700 77L D
AI128 1900 ORD - BOM 2130+1 77L D

Would 2 hour stops at each airport be enough?


Can't comment on JFK but 5 PM arrival at ORD would be a tough turnaround in 2 hours.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1912
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:18 pm

Jet to launch direct Mumbai-Manchester service from Nov 5; to operate five flights every week

Jet AirwaysNSE -1.82 % will start direct services between Mumbai and Manchester from November 5, with five flights every week. A wide-body A330-200 aircraft, having 254 seats, would be deployed for the direct flight to Manchester in the UK, the airline said Wednesday.

It would operate the flight "five days a week including Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. ...

 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:30 pm

vadodara wrote:
mayank28 wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Thanks for proving my point. Pl. read what the previous poster had stated. Right now, STV is showing some crazy growth #'s. Obviously, they are from a smaller base. However, once they stabilize and reach around 20-25%, it goes to prove my point that STV can sustain demand.

Same hold's true for other secondary airports. I used AMD as an example to prove a point to some Bombay hub wallah's here.

How does any of this prove demand for AMS or TLV from Surat?

As you said STV growth numbers are from a smaller base and the numbers are anyway for domestic traffic. Can STV sustain domestic flights? Sure. AMS or TLV? I would think unlikely.


You are entitled to your opinion. However I was responding to Lightsaber who seems to have an inside knowledge of how diamond industry works.

I used AMD as a reference point, similar demography. If anything Surat/Bardoli/Navasari/Valsad/Vapi is a very wealthy market. Take the total traffic and assume a fraction to be international. Diverting that traffic away from BOM should put a dent in someone’s top line.

Yes if I were a Jet Airways employee, starting international service at Surat might be the last straw that breaks my ‘hub’. Get over with it, it will happen.


Even if Surat gets more long haul flights, pax will still connect in BOM & DEL. That is just the way aviation works. BOM/DEL/BLR will always have an advantage or other Indian cities because premium business class pax in essence subsidize coach seats in the back. Indian companies are already very stingy in allowing their employees to fly business (relative to the West). This is really what hurts long haul from India. Anyway - one thing I can say for sure - if the ME3 build their presence in Surat, you won't get EU nonstops anytime soon. And you can hate on BOM all you want, the fact remains a good chunk of your area's most affluent people live in BOM (at least part time) and spend a ton of their money (both black and white) fueling Bombay's economy (including bars and non veg restaurants!). This will not stop anytime soon.
 
sand26391
Posts: 536
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:33 pm

vadodara wrote:
avier wrote:
More than Surat, places like Pune and Kolkata need more international flights, more so long haul.

There are so many more bigger, vibrant and promising cities that need more international ops like MAA, COK, PNQ, CCU, JAI.

I think Surat has a long way to go in that regard. They barely started out in the domestic front and need to prove if they can sustain that before moving on to short haul Int'l like DXB.
Long haul seems like decades away for them. They sure do contribute to some of the traffic at bigger airports albeit in smaller numbers compared to the large chunk of O&D traffic at those airports, but again most such towns/villages do feed, not just one. That however doesn't justify long haul ops from those places.


Isn’t this the point of the WWAS or whatever? Why are we ‘blocked’ from getting service!


As usual talking without any facts and figures. Please if you want to talk about STV wanting Long haul ops, respond with facts and figures. If You want to fly STV/BDQ-AMS/BRU then go to talk to the state govt/BDQ or STV APDs to start respective flights to these EU cities and support them. Have facts? Have O&D numbers? Have PDEW numbers to support ur claims? If YES then we would love to sit and talk here, but as of now you have shown absolutely NOTHING regarding this. Yes there are a lot of diamond traders in STV/BDQ and AMS/Rotterdam/BRU. But is there more than 120+ ppl traveling to AMS everyday from STV to support a flight? Can WB aircraft land at STV? Does the airport support widebody ops? Dont come here and post claims from that joke of a group WWWAS. I'm ending this here. Have a good day! :-)
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:47 pm

blrsea wrote:
Jet to launch direct Mumbai-Manchester service from Nov 5; to operate five flights every week

Jet AirwaysNSE -1.82 % will start direct services between Mumbai and Manchester from November 5, with five flights every week. A wide-body A330-200 aircraft, having 254 seats, would be deployed for the direct flight to Manchester in the UK, the airline said Wednesday.

It would operate the flight "five days a week including Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. ...



Just a small correction in the article. The aircraft has 274 seats ( 18 J 256 Y).
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
freqflyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:15 pm

binayak wrote:

all the small cities of his state can sustain demand..............those small cities are not having more "khakra long hauls" ...........


I really didn't want to wade into your muck but STV city and its contiguous areas are 95% the size of AMD city and almost entirely a business hub. Add Hazira into the mix and you have a huge untapped potential. Which went untapped till a couple of years ago only due to politics. (Whether or not there is enough to fill a 787 to BRU/AMS is not the point here)

As for the references to Gujarati food, I really see no purpose which these gratuitous insults serve. Wish they were avoided.
 
JOYA380B747
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:38 pm

avier wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Even Pune, being a bigger city than Surat, doesn't have proper long haul flights yet (they lost they only Europe connection on the BBJ) , so yes I doubt STV will be able to sustain them.


FYI the PNQ-FRA flights resume on October 29th. It was never a permanent cancellation of that route to begin with.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
avier
Posts: 898
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:34 pm

^^ Ok, I didn't see that come up again. However ,cities like Pune still need more such int'l ops before smaller cities like Surat can have, that was the point I was trying to make to another user.

avier wrote:

More than Surat, places like Pune and Kolkata need more international flights, more so long haul.

There are so many more bigger, vibrant and promising cities that need more international ops like MAA, COK, PNQ, CCU, JAI.
 
killswitch13
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:08 am

Looks like AI flights to Italy are just breaking even based on this

"Our flights to Milan and Rome are currently doing average. The occupancy on these flights could be improved further. The flight to Copenhagen has completed one year and we are analysing its performance. We are doing our best to increase aircraft utilisation and plan to add some flights to Europe. London is definitely an option for increasing frequency"

http://www.asianage.com/business/companies/130918/air-india-to-sell-land-flats-worth-rs-300-crore.html


Not sure why there is so much capacity between India and Italy considering Air Italy will launch flights from BOM and DEL
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:43 am

killswitch13 wrote:
Looks like AI flights to Italy are just breaking even based on this

"Our flights to Milan and Rome are currently doing average. The occupancy on these flights could be improved further. The flight to Copenhagen has completed one year and we are analysing its performance. We are doing our best to increase aircraft utilisation and plan to add some flights to Europe. London is definitely an option for increasing frequency"

http://www.asianage.com/business/companies/130918/air-india-to-sell-land-flats-worth-rs-300-crore.html


Not sure why there is so much capacity between India and Italy considering Air Italy will launch flights from BOM and DEL

Any more updates on the upcoming JFK flight ?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
killswitch13
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:02 pm

binayak wrote:
killswitch13 wrote:
Looks like AI flights to Italy are just breaking even based on this

"Our flights to Milan and Rome are currently doing average. The occupancy on these flights could be improved further. The flight to Copenhagen has completed one year and we are analysing its performance. We are doing our best to increase aircraft utilisation and plan to add some flights to Europe. London is definitely an option for increasing frequency"

http://www.asianage.com/business/companies/130918/air-india-to-sell-land-flats-worth-rs-300-crore.html


Not sure why there is so much capacity between India and Italy considering Air Italy will launch flights from BOM and DEL

Any more updates on the upcoming JFK flight ?


Yet to receive permissions.
 
yashk
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:14 am

Irehdna wrote:
Just did the math, created the following hypothetical winter BOM-USA schedule that would allow daily JFK/ORD on 3 77L:

AI141 2330 BOM - JFK 0545+1 77L D
AI140 0900 JFK - BOM 1020+1 77L D

AI129 1230 BOM - ORD 1700 77L D
AI128 1900 ORD - BOM 2130+1 77L D

Would 2 hour stops at each airport be enough?

AI should do something like this from DEL instead.

AI103 0115 DEL - IAD 0715 77W D
AI104 1030 IAD - DEL 1000+1 77W D

AI105 1315 DEL - EWR 1900 77W D
AI106 2200 EWR - DEL 2140+1 77W D

Afternoon departure to ewr will align very well with AI’s European hub. This will increase aircraft utilization significantly and offer a convenient departure time as well. I fly Del - NYC once every few months and despite the convencine of a direct flight, I prefer the 10 am flight on Ba via London just because of a day time departure. For those who prefer a night flight, there would be United/ AI s JFK flight.
 
User avatar
VarunSolanki747
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:41 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:23 am

Air India Boeing 777-300ER incident at New York's JFK Airport due to failure of ILS.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bd8a3c1&opt=0

A YouTube video of ATC transcript can be found here
https://youtu.be/5FTw9TQtw38
Planespotter / FlightSimmer / Traveller=136000km
 
sand26391
Posts: 536
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:32 pm

Top Unserved Intl routes from BLR in FY 2017-18

1) SFO
2) JFK
3) SYD
4) MEL
5) ORD
6) DFW
7) PVG
8) NRT
9) YYZ
10) LAX

Top O&D routes from BLR in Q2 2018 with PDEW (Passengers Daily Each Way)

1) SIN 521
2) DXB= 441
3) LHR= 297
4) CMB= 249
5) JED= 187
6) BKK= 180
7) SFO= 170
8) KUL= 157
9) MCT= 143
10) CDG= 117
11) MLE= 115-116
12) HKG= 114
13) AMS= 107
14) FRA= 106
 
CHIMAA
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:41 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:51 pm

Good Suggestions YashK and Irehdna , But will AI will ever listen to Good suggestions. :-(
 
BHXRunway15
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:11 pm

BHX News.

VT-GHK B73H Air India is night-stopping BHX have been delivered from BFI via YYZ earlier today and is due out tomorrow.

Less than a month before Air India reduce BHX from daily to 3 x ATQ and 3 x DEL with the Friday Delhi stopping and not showing again in most booking engines. This reduction I doubt is based on loads, as they have picked up (July 13012 average 210 -82% load factor) after the low season although of course it could be yields but unconfirmed reports suggest aircraft issues - maybe they have been reading a.net :biggrin:
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:53 am

Brussels airline to end the only Belgium India route BRU BOM by January 7 , 2019 .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
killswitch13
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - 2018 (2)

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:54 am

binayak wrote:
Brussels airline to end the only Belgium India route BRU BOM by January 7 , 2019 .


STV will ask for direct connection :lol:

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