PIEAvantiP180
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Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:21 pm

Found this article on cnbc that details the last decade since DL and NW merged and all the mergers that followed. Deff worth the read, its got some great stats on pax numbers, share of US air traffic per airline before and after, and talks about difficulties of mergers and the current streak of airline profitability. In my opinion one of the better researched and written articles about the airline industry that ive read in resent time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/07/a-decad ... ustry.html

Great image of DL family Tree
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.c ... 1522699877
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:43 pm

Congratulations to Delta. For a merger this size, well executed. Curious to see where the next 10 years growth will be. Likely all DTW ::-)
 
Cunard
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:06 pm

That Delta family tree image is really cool it's a shame that other similar airlines don't have them.
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HI442ct
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:09 pm

Definitely a merger I hated, I miss the NW brand, hated how DL never even had any appreciation of NW, UA combined their name and at least left the CO colors, AA had heritage planes etc..., DL, just got rid of everything NW, seems like such a me, me ,me airline.
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PIEAvantiP180
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:23 pm

HI442ct wrote:
Definitely a merger I hated, I miss the NW brand, hated how DL never even had any appreciation of NW, UA combined their name and at least left the CO colors, AA had heritage planes etc..., DL, just got rid of everything NW, seems like such a me, me ,me airline.


The article mentions that exact issue and both Anderson and Steenland share the opinion that one airline had to emerge as a dominant airline/brand. If we look at DL/NW merger and UA/CO merger the one brand take over of both airlines so far has proven to be the better option. And you newer know if in due time DL might have heritage planes from airlines past that they have absorbed thru the decades.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Good article. It does show how necessary and inevitable consolidation was and how ultimately it hasn't hurt the consumers. A stable profitable industry benefits everyone.
Last edited by UpNAWAy on Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:30 pm

PIEAvantiP180 wrote:
HI442ct wrote:
Definitely a merger I hated, I miss the NW brand, hated how DL never even had any appreciation of NW, UA combined their name and at least left the CO colors, AA had heritage planes etc..., DL, just got rid of everything NW, seems like such a me, me ,me airline.


The article mentions that exact issue and both Anderson and Steenland share the opinion that one airline had to emerge as a dominant airline/brand. If we look at DL/NW merger and UA/CO merger the one brand take over of both airlines so far has proven to be the better option. And you newer know if in due time DL might have heritage planes from airlines past that they have absorbed thru the decades.


UA was slammed both publicly and on Anet for suffering through an identity crisis. Most people and critics did not want the CO logo on the tail of the UA planes. DL did the merger right, UA did not.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/gullive ... tal-merger
 
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BroadwayLimited
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:35 pm

The DL/NWmerger was a text book case on how to successfully do a merger. One of the best mergers in any industry. (I think the Delta/Western merger was another text book study, but that was a different era).

I listened weekly to Richard Anderson’s “Right from Richard” weekly employee news line. I followed step by step how and what he had to do to make this merger a success. And I very well remember when he got DOJ approval, the merger closed an hour or so later. Brilliant strategy.

Don’t get me wrong, we are all only human, and yes there were missteps along the way, but as far as mergers go, it was executed pretty darn well. Like I said a text book study.

Now Richard Anderson is trying to revitalize Amtrak. That might be the biggest challenge of his career. Hope he succeeds.
Signed up for Delta and Eastern Frequent Flyer Programs August 30, 1981.
 
WWads
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:51 pm

BroadwayLimited wrote:
The DL/NWmerger was a text book case on how to successfully do a merger. One of the best mergers in any industry. (I think the Delta/Western merger was another text book study, but that was a different era).

I listened weekly to Richard Anderson’s “Right from Richard” weekly employee news line. I followed step by step how and what he had to do to make this merger a success. And I very well remember when he got DOJ approval, the merger closed an hour or so later. Brilliant strategy.

Don’t get me wrong, we are all only human, and yes there were missteps along the way, but as far as mergers go, it was executed pretty darn well. Like I said a text book study.

Now Richard Anderson is trying to revitalize Amtrak. That might be the biggest challenge of his career. Hope he succeeds.


Certainly DL has become better as a result of the merger. AA and UA? Not so much. Sure they have bigger networks, and can serve more people, but both of those airlines have a lot of internal problems, along with fleet issues. I recently gave UA and AA another go, on both long and short segments, and they are clearly behind DL in almost every way. I did find AA to be better than UA, and closer to DL, but that's only if you're lucky enough to get LAA equipment. As an East Coast flyer I'd be stuck with LUS, and DL blows them out of the water completely.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:59 pm

Listen up, mergers aren't pretty. There are feelings that are bound to be hurt. But you cant have it both ways like United tried to do. Its all in or nothing and if you don't like the ride, nothing forced the NW people to stay. And before people accuse me of hating NW, I have met some of the best flight attendants on DL flights that are EX-NW employees.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:13 pm

AA has improved in most if not all measurable metrics since the merger. They are certianly not Delta yet but DL has 5+ years head start. Lets see where AA is in 2023.
UA is more a mixed bag all around so far.
 
WWads
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:50 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Listen up, mergers aren't pretty. There are feelings that are bound to be hurt. But you cant have it both ways like United tried to do. Its all in or nothing and if you don't like the ride, nothing forced the NW people to stay. And before people accuse me of hating NW, I have met some of the best flight attendants on DL flights that are EX-NW employees.


For intercontinental flights I go out of my way to avoid ATL. I've found the old NWA crews to be vastly superior by all measures.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:13 pm

HI442ct wrote:
Definitely a merger I hated, I miss the NW brand, hated how DL never even had any appreciation of NW, UA combined their name and at least left the CO colors, AA had heritage planes etc..., DL, just got rid of everything NW, seems like such a me, me ,me airline.


The UA/CO merger has been a disaster. From the recycled livery (which will always mean CO to me), labor issues, etc.

Delta's mergers have gone off quite well. The assimilated WA well, then NW.
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klm617
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:17 pm

HI442ct wrote:
Definitely a merger I hated, I miss the NW brand, hated how DL never even had any appreciation of NW, UA combined their name and at least left the CO colors, AA had heritage planes etc..., DL, just got rid of everything NW, seems like such a me, me ,me airline.


And no appreciation for the Northwest customer base because of their everything Atlanta attitude since the merger.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:19 pm

WWads wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Listen up, mergers aren't pretty. There are feelings that are bound to be hurt. But you cant have it both ways like United tried to do. Its all in or nothing and if you don't like the ride, nothing forced the NW people to stay. And before people accuse me of hating NW, I have met some of the best flight attendants on DL flights that are EX-NW employees.


For intercontinental flights I go out of my way to avoid ATL. I've found the old NWA crews to be vastly superior by all measures.


I avoid Atlanta for all connections it's the hub from hell. You better be ready to be a misplaced passenger if you are transiting the Atlanta hub.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:27 pm

Most of the Northwest network did not fair well through this merger. MEM cut DTW and MSP shrunk while the Delta network faired much better JFK, ATL and SLC all grew the only Delta casualty was CVG out of the merger. MSP and DTW will never see the days again when they were both 10 hub airports in the USA now they are both struggling to stay in the top 20 with MSP holding it's own so to speak while DTW keeps falling lower and lower in the rankings.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
WWads
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:29 pm

klm617 wrote:
WWads wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Listen up, mergers aren't pretty. There are feelings that are bound to be hurt. But you cant have it both ways like United tried to do. Its all in or nothing and if you don't like the ride, nothing forced the NW people to stay. And before people accuse me of hating NW, I have met some of the best flight attendants on DL flights that are EX-NW employees.


For intercontinental flights I go out of my way to avoid ATL. I've found the old NWA crews to be vastly superior by all measures.


I avoid Atlanta for all connections it's the hub from hell. You better be ready to be a misplaced passenger if you are transiting the Atlanta hub.


I love ATL as a connection point, but the crews assigned to the long-haul flights are generally terrible.
 
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BroadwayLimited
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:47 pm

klm617 wrote:
I avoid Atlanta for all connections it's the hub from hell. You better be ready to be a misplaced passenger if you are transiting the Atlanta hub.

I guess I am doing something wrong. I have been transistioning through the Atlanta airport for over 48 years. Both on Eastern and Delta, both the current terminal, and the old pre-1980 terminal. I have never had the first problem in the least.

Again, I guess I am doing something wrong to never have a problem, and enjoying the airport.
Last edited by BroadwayLimited on Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Signed up for Delta and Eastern Frequent Flyer Programs August 30, 1981.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:48 pm

Great job by DL. Out of the US3 it is currently by far the best.
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JackMeahoff
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:00 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
Curious to see where the next 10 years growth will be. Likely all DTW ::-)


Hopefully that future involves a new batch of four engine widebodies produced in Washington. :smile:
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:11 pm

klm617 wrote:
because of their everything Atlanta attitude since the merger.

...ya know, OTHER than:
  • the first built-from-ground-up domestic+international hub by an Legacy in decades
  • building LAX to a larger state than it's ever been for the combined DL/NW pax flows
  • offering more P2P service than any other US3
  • beginning more service to Europe from a stateside non-hub destination than any other US3
  • etc

:roll: :roll:


JackMeahoff wrote:
Hopefully that future involves a new batch of four engine widebodies produced in Washington.

You mean, the one that its own manufacturer said "has no future" as a pax carrier?

If you're holding your breath for that, then now would be a good time to exhale. ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:23 pm

I would rather connect in ATL than in ICN, SIN, HKG, or any other hub in the world. That's different than saying I would rather be in Atlanta than in Incheon, Singapore, or the Fragrant Harbor, but as far as domestic or international connections, the "heavenly" (look up the hanzi / kanji / hanza for "heaven") rail between concourses works better than any other system. If only there were transverse lines the length of A to F at ATL.
 
HI442ct
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:29 pm

I agree the merger seemed very smooth, i simply stated that i personally felt as another poster had mentioned, I wish they had showed some more appreciation for NW, something like a NW painted jet, it's that simple, my feelings aren't hurt it was just my opinion, but maybe they will do something like that in the future, I've seen the aviation industry change so much since I first started, and from an enthusiast point of view, the old days were so much more interesting, but I know and understand that it all about money these days, and even that is dictated by the consumer.
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capejet
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:55 pm

Wondering, did DL/NW have to give up any slots at any airports in order for their merger to be approved?
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:57 pm

Cunard wrote:
That Delta family tree image is really cool it's a shame that other similar airlines don't have them.


I've seen the same thing for AA and UA.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
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spinotter
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:05 pm

PIEAvantiP180 wrote:
Found this article on cnbc that details the last decade since DL and NW merged and all the mergers that followed. Deff worth the read, its got some great stats on pax numbers, share of US air traffic per airline before and after, and talks about difficulties of mergers and the current streak of airline profitability. In my opinion one of the better researched and written articles about the airline industry that ive read in resent time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/07/a-decad ... ustry.html

Great image of DL family Tree
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.c ... 1522699877


That is a great family tree, but IMHO they really erred in leaving out Northwest Orient (gong!) Airlines with the iconic logo - http://airlinetimetables.blogspot.com/2013/07/northwest-orient-airlines-june-1985.html. (Notice in 1985 they served Kuala Lumpur, Okinawa, and their initial European network of B747's to Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Dublin, and Glasgow, all of which destinations were later dropped by NW, as well as London Gatwick and Frankfurt). My mother worked as a receptionist for Northwest at the Rainbow Hotel in Great Falls, Montana, in 1944 and 1945, when airlines had a downtown office even in GTF, and that's where she met my father, who was in the Army Air Corps at Malmstrom AFB (East Base in those days). So NW was always my airline. I flew NW from Bangkok to Paris and everywhere in between, so the merger with DL was a bit of a downer for me. But I have recovered in these ten years and now I'm somewhat of a Delta fanboy now, although very moderate in that respect.
Last edited by spinotter on Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jubguy3
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:05 pm

The reason that Delta doesn't celebrate northwest's heritage is that they began removing special liveries (other than SkyTeam) to try to begin a brand turnaround following the merger. You need to take a look at what Delta was to consumers 10 years ago. Delta had a horrible reputation as an airline. Fast forward ten years, and anybody who follows the US aviation industry will tell you that Delta's brand strategy is the most elegant, best-regarded image of any US3. Ed Bastian and those before him spent a ton of time working to turn around what Delta meant to consumers, and it paid off. Part of that was a fully unified brand strategy, and Northwest wasn't part of that. The most significant remnant of Northwest remains in how Delta is managed. Why do people here have such a tough time seeing beyond what matters to enthusiasts? Why would anybody flying out of Atlanta or Salt Lake City or JFK want to step onto a special northwest livery aircraft? Delta has honored NW by executing the plan for what NW executives wanted the company to become. Delta has preserved DTW-Asia and operates the most capacity to the EU of any airline by preserving relationships with Air France - KLM. DTW and MSP are the 2nd and 3rd largest hubs for Delta. I'd say that they've done a good job of preserving what NW was by cutting the shit out and keeping it's best parts. They could have very well consolidated in CVG and MSP but chose to create a fully integrated corporation.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:08 pm

jubguy3 wrote:
The reason that Delta doesn't celebrate northwest's heritage is that they began removing special liveries (other than SkyTeam) to try to begin a brand turnaround following the merger. You need to take a look at what Delta was to consumers 10 years ago. Delta had a horrible reputation as an airline. Fast forward ten years, and anybody who follows the US aviation industry will tell you that Delta's brand strategy is the most elegant, best-regarded image of any US3. Ed Bastian and those before him spent a ton of time working to turn around what Delta meant to consumers, and it paid off. Part of that was a fully unified brand strategy, and Northwest wasn't part of that. The most significant remnant of Northwest remains in how Delta is managed. Why do people here have such a tough time seeing beyond what matters to enthusiasts? Why would anybody flying out of Atlanta or Salt Lake City or JFK want to step onto a special northwest livery aircraft? Delta has honored NW by executing the plan for what NW executives wanted the company to become. Delta has preserved DTW-Asia and operates the most capacity to the EU of any airline by preserving relationships with Air France - KLM. DTW and MSP are the 2nd and 3rd largest hubs for Delta. I'd say that they've done a good job of preserving what NW was by cutting the shit out and keeping it's best parts. They could have very well consolidated in CVG and MSP but chose to create a fully integrated corporation.


I don't know what other people think, but I wonder if the orientation of the Delta widget on the tail, toward the NW or NE depending on which side of the tail, isn't a discreet nod to Northwest Airlines - somewhat comparable to the United name and the Continental livery on current UA planes.
 
klm617
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:15 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
I would rather connect in ATL than in ICN, SIN, HKG, or any other hub in the world. That's different than saying I would rather be in Atlanta than in Incheon, Singapore, or the Fragrant Harbor, but as far as domestic or international connections, the "heavenly" (look up the hanzi / kanji / hanza for "heaven") rail between concourses works better than any other system. If only there were transverse lines the length of A to F at ATL.


Obviously you haven't connected a DTW or AMS which is leaps and bounds ahead
of the Atlanta experience. The train in Atlanta is a joke.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:17 pm

BroadwayLimited wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I avoid Atlanta for all connections it's the hub from hell. You better be ready to be a misplaced passenger if you are transiting the Atlanta hub.

I guess I am doing something wrong. I have been transistioning through the Atlanta airport for over 48 years. Both on Eastern and Delta, both the current terminal, and the old pre-1980 terminal. I have never had the first problem in the least.

Again, I guess I am doing something wrong to never have a problem, and enjoying the airport.


You never in 48 years had a missed connection there ?
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:20 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
klm617 wrote:
because of their everything Atlanta attitude since the merger.

...ya know, OTHER than:
  • the first built-from-ground-up domestic+international hub by an Legacy in decades
  • building LAX to a larger state than it's ever been for the combined DL/NW pax flows
  • offering more P2P service than any other US3
  • beginning more service to Europe from a stateside non-hub destination than any other US3
  • etc

:roll: :roll:


JackMeahoff wrote:
Hopefully that future involves a new batch of four engine widebodies produced in Washington.

You mean, the one that its own manufacturer said "has no future" as a pax carrier?

If you're holding your breath for that, then now would be a good time to exhale. ;)



None of those things you mentioned have the potential to impact Atlanta in a negative way but have impacted DTW and MSP in a very negative way.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
diverted
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:23 pm

spinotter wrote:
jubguy3 wrote:
The reason that Delta doesn't celebrate northwest's heritage is that they began removing special liveries (other than SkyTeam) to try to begin a brand turnaround following the merger. You need to take a look at what Delta was to consumers 10 years ago. Delta had a horrible reputation as an airline. Fast forward ten years, and anybody who follows the US aviation industry will tell you that Delta's brand strategy is the most elegant, best-regarded image of any US3. Ed Bastian and those before him spent a ton of time working to turn around what Delta meant to consumers, and it paid off. Part of that was a fully unified brand strategy, and Northwest wasn't part of that. The most significant remnant of Northwest remains in how Delta is managed. Why do people here have such a tough time seeing beyond what matters to enthusiasts? Why would anybody flying out of Atlanta or Salt Lake City or JFK want to step onto a special northwest livery aircraft? Delta has honored NW by executing the plan for what NW executives wanted the company to become. Delta has preserved DTW-Asia and operates the most capacity to the EU of any airline by preserving relationships with Air France - KLM. DTW and MSP are the 2nd and 3rd largest hubs for Delta. I'd say that they've done a good job of preserving what NW was by cutting the shit out and keeping it's best parts. They could have very well consolidated in CVG and MSP but chose to create a fully integrated corporation.


I don't know what other people think, but I wonder if the orientation of the Delta widget on the tail, toward the NW or NE depending on which side of the tail, isn't a discreet nod to Northwest Airlines - somewhat comparable to the United name and the Continental livery on current UA planes.


That's been brought up before, but DL's new livery was introduced 04/30/07, so unless they preemptively oriented the widget like that in anticipation of the merger, then odds are that's not the case. Mind you....
Image
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:23 pm

klm617 wrote:
None of those things you mentioned have the potential to impact Atlanta in a negative way but have impacted DTW and MSP in a very negative way.

Do you ever intend to make a post that's actually based in fact?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:25 pm

klm617 wrote:
HI442ct wrote:
Definitely a merger I hated, I miss the NW brand, hated how DL never even had any appreciation of NW, UA combined their name and at least left the CO colors, AA had heritage planes etc..., DL, just got rid of everything NW, seems like such a me, me ,me airline.


And no appreciation for the Northwest customer base because of their everything Atlanta attitude since the merger.


And here we go again....if DL had no regard for the NW customer base, they would close DTW and MSP. Maybe even reopen a hub in Texas. Rebuild CVG. Build another couple of concourses at ATL. See how silly you sound?

Your hatred of DL and ATL is an unhealthy obsession. :banghead:
Last edited by EvanWSFO on Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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spinotter
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:31 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
klm617 wrote:
HI442ct wrote:
Definitely a merger I hated, I miss the NW brand, hated how DL never even had any appreciation of NW, UA combined their name and at least left the CO colors, AA had heritage planes etc..., DL, just got rid of everything NW, seems like such a me, me ,me airline.


And no appreciation for the Northwest customer base because of their everything Atlanta attitude since the merger.


And here we go again....if DL had no regard for the NW customer base, they would close DTW and MSP. Maybe even reopen a hub in Texas. Rebuild CVG. Build another couple of concourses at ATL.

Your hatred of DL and ATL is an unhealthy obsession. :banghead:


It is definitely an unhealthy obsession, DTW and MSP are no longer the crown jewels of any airline, but they are healthy and profitable hubs in the DL system. Even as a NW fanboy, I knew that DTW, MSP, and MEM could never be the foundation for a world-significant airline. Now with JFK/LGA, ATL, SLC, LAX, and SEA, as well as AMS and CDG and even NRT in its faded glory, you show them Delta! Earnings for 1Q2018 will be coming out next week, right? A money-making machine!
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:34 pm

When I joined this site, I wanted to have an avatar of the hometown airline that I flew the most as a kid, starting back in the 1970's. I've been an airline/airplane junkie since my first plane ride, many years ago. I was quite happy to see that no one else had already chosen it before me.

spinotter wrote:
PIEAvantiP180 wrote:
Found this article on cnbc that details the last decade since DL and NW merged and all the mergers that followed. Deff worth the read, its got some great stats on pax numbers, share of US air traffic per airline before and after, and talks about difficulties of mergers and the current streak of airline profitability. In my opinion one of the better researched and written articles about the airline industry that ive read in resent time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/07/a-decad ... ustry.html

Great image of DL family Tree
https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.c ... 1522699877


That is a great family tree, but IMHO they really erred in leaving out Northwest Orient (gong!) Airlines with the iconic logo - http://airlinetimetables.blogspot.com/2013/07/northwest-orient-airlines-june-1985.html. My mother worked as a receptionist for Northwest at the Rainbow Hotel in Great Falls, Montana, in 1944 and 1945, and that's where she met my father, who was in the Army Air Corps at Malmstrom AFB (East Base in those days). So NW was always my airline. I flew NW from Bangkok to Paris and everywhere in between, so the merger with DL was a bit of a downer for me. But now I'm somewhat of a Delta fanboy, alas.
 
H3w1tt
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:39 pm

spinotter wrote:
jubguy3 wrote:
The reason that Delta doesn't celebrate northwest's heritage is that they began removing special liveries (other than SkyTeam) to try to begin a brand turnaround following the merger. You need to take a look at what Delta was to consumers 10 years ago. Delta had a horrible reputation as an airline. Fast forward ten years, and anybody who follows the US aviation industry will tell you that Delta's brand strategy is the most elegant, best-regarded image of any US3. Ed Bastian and those before him spent a ton of time working to turn around what Delta meant to consumers, and it paid off. Part of that was a fully unified brand strategy, and Northwest wasn't part of that. The most significant remnant of Northwest remains in how Delta is managed. Why do people here have such a tough time seeing beyond what matters to enthusiasts? Why would anybody flying out of Atlanta or Salt Lake City or JFK want to step onto a special northwest livery aircraft? Delta has honored NW by executing the plan for what NW executives wanted the company to become. Delta has preserved DTW-Asia and operates the most capacity to the EU of any airline by preserving relationships with Air France - KLM. DTW and MSP are the 2nd and 3rd largest hubs for Delta. I'd say that they've done a good job of preserving what NW was by cutting the shit out and keeping it's best parts. They could have very well consolidated in CVG and MSP but chose to create a fully integrated corporation.


I don't know what other people think, but I wonder if the orientation of the Delta widget on the tail, toward the NW or NE depending on which side of the tail, isn't a discreet nod to Northwest Airlines - somewhat comparable to the United name and the Continental livery on current UA planes.

I've always wondered that as well... certainly seems feasible
 
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:50 pm

Miss seeing the Red Tail. There's so many things that could be said, but probably the toughest part for me is having your hometown airline being gobbled up by an airline that is borderline hostile to your history and past existence. When you see UA and AA embrace public display of their history, it stings even more.

PIEAvantiP180 wrote:
Found this article on cnbc that details the last decade since DL and NW merged and all the mergers that followed. Deff worth the read, its got some great stats on pax numbers, share of US air traffic per airline before and after, and talks about difficulties of mergers and the current streak of airline profitability. In my opinion one of the better researched and written articles about the airline industry that ive read in resent time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/07/a-decad ... ustry.html


Not a bad article, but it's misleading at best to say that NW FAs voted to leave their union.

diverted wrote:
That's been brought up before, but DL's new livery was introduced 04/30/07, so unless they preemptively oriented the widget like that in anticipation of the merger, then odds are that's not the case. Mind you....
Image


People have speculated that from time to time for years, but I've yet to hear one person from the NW side think that way. Personally I see no connection. The DL livery was announced a year prior, so that would mean it was planned for even longer for a tie-up that was no guarantee. Ironically NW took some criticism for its last livery because the logo pointed NE on the right side of the aircraft. Would be strange to try throw a bone towards something that wasn't liked by all.
 
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treebeard787
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:57 pm

I too miss Northwest, they were one of the first airlines I flew on as a kid, and I got to fly on a DC-10 for the first time with them. Lot of memories of making connections in MSP, and seeing the endless sea of red tails, and all the old classic DC-9s, and DC-10s.

As much as I miss NW, I understand sometimes consolidation has to happen, and DL has done a good job with the merger. They really are doing the right things.
Allons-y!
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:55 am

klm617 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
klm617 wrote:
because of their everything Atlanta attitude since the merger.

...ya know, OTHER than:
  • the first built-from-ground-up domestic+international hub by an Legacy in decades
  • building LAX to a larger state than it's ever been for the combined DL/NW pax flows
  • offering more P2P service than any other US3
  • beginning more service to Europe from a stateside non-hub destination than any other US3
  • etc

:roll: :roll:


JackMeahoff wrote:
Hopefully that future involves a new batch of four engine widebodies produced in Washington.

You mean, the one that its own manufacturer said "has no future" as a pax carrier?

If you're holding your breath for that, then now would be a good time to exhale. ;)



None of those things you mentioned have the potential to impact Atlanta in a negative way but have impacted DTW and MSP in a very negative way.

It’s amazing you’re the ONLY person that sees any of this...
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
ImperialEagle
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:58 am

jubguy3 wrote:
The reason that Delta doesn't celebrate northwest's heritage is that they began removing special liveries (other than SkyTeam) to try to begin a brand turnaround following the merger. You need to take a look at what Delta was to consumers 10 years ago. Delta had a horrible reputation as an airline. Fast forward ten years, and anybody who follows the US aviation industry will tell you that Delta's brand strategy is the most elegant, best-regarded image of any US3. Ed Bastian and those before him spent a ton of time working to turn around what Delta meant to consumers, and it paid off. Part of that was a fully unified brand strategy, and Northwest wasn't part of that. The most significant remnant of Northwest remains in how Delta is managed. Why do people here have such a tough time seeing beyond what matters to enthusiasts? Why would anybody flying out of Atlanta or Salt Lake City or JFK want to step onto a special northwest livery aircraft? Delta has honored NW by executing the plan for what NW executives wanted the company to become. Delta has preserved DTW-Asia and operates the most capacity to the EU of any airline by preserving relationships with Air France - KLM. DTW and MSP are the 2nd and 3rd largest hubs for Delta. I'd say that they've done a good job of preserving what NW was by cutting the shit out and keeping it's best parts. They could have very well consolidated in CVG and MSP but chose to create a fully integrated corporation.


"Delta had a "horrible" reputation as an airline".
Could you be less vague?

I never had a "horrible" trip on any of the company's planes, and I never had a "horrible" trip on NW.
I never heard a frequent-flyer or business person refer to either carrier as "horrible". My history with both of these carriers goes back a ways. Today's company is the result of enrichment from all of the carriers merged over the years. Every time I book a trip on today's DL I know I am benefitting from all of that experience. Just 'sayin. Oh, and I miss the red-tails, too.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
HI442ct
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:11 am

[quote="MSPNWA"]Miss seeing the Red Tail. There's so many things that could be said, but probably the toughest part for me is having your hometown airline being gobbled up by an airline that is borderline hostile to your history and past existence. When you see UA and AA embrace public display of their history, it stings

Basically what I meant to say, but obviously, you can't even remotely give an opinion on here without having a truckload of DL fanboys get all defensive, no need to, as I'm not bashing The beloved Delta, I mean you are where you are partly because of the merger.
Worked with
B707/727/737/747/757/767
DC8/DC10/MD11/MD80/
A300/L1011/A320/ATR42
 
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admanager
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:35 am

BroadwayLimited wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I avoid Atlanta for all connections it's the hub from hell. You better be ready to be a misplaced passenger if you are transiting the Atlanta hub.

I guess I am doing something wrong. I have been transistioning through the Atlanta airport for over 48 years. Both on Eastern and Delta, both the current terminal, and the old pre-1980 terminal. I have never had the first problem in the least.

Again, I guess I am doing something wrong to never have a problem, and enjoying the airport.

38 years for me as a Platinum Million Miler. Had 1 missed connection about 15 years ago. I remember well going out to tour the "new" airport the weekend before it opened back n 1980, during the public openhouse.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:36 am

ImperialEagle wrote:
jubguy3 wrote:
The reason that Delta doesn't celebrate northwest's heritage is that they began removing special liveries (other than SkyTeam) to try to begin a brand turnaround following the merger. You need to take a look at what Delta was to consumers 10 years ago. Delta had a horrible reputation as an airline. Fast forward ten years, and anybody who follows the US aviation industry will tell you that Delta's brand strategy is the most elegant, best-regarded image of any US3. Ed Bastian and those before him spent a ton of time working to turn around what Delta meant to consumers, and it paid off. Part of that was a fully unified brand strategy, and Northwest wasn't part of that. The most significant remnant of Northwest remains in how Delta is managed. Why do people here have such a tough time seeing beyond what matters to enthusiasts? Why would anybody flying out of Atlanta or Salt Lake City or JFK want to step onto a special northwest livery aircraft? Delta has honored NW by executing the plan for what NW executives wanted the company to become. Delta has preserved DTW-Asia and operates the most capacity to the EU of any airline by preserving relationships with Air France - KLM. DTW and MSP are the 2nd and 3rd largest hubs for Delta. I'd say that they've done a good job of preserving what NW was by cutting the shit out and keeping it's best parts. They could have very well consolidated in CVG and MSP but chose to create a fully integrated corporation.


"Delta had a "horrible" reputation as an airline".
Could you be less vague?

I never had a "horrible" trip on any of the company's planes, and I never had a "horrible" trip on NW.
I never heard a frequent-flyer or business person refer to either carrier as "horrible". My history with both of these carriers goes back a ways. Today's company is the result of enrichment from all of the carriers merged over the years. Every time I book a trip on today's DL I know I am benefitting from all of that experience. Just 'sayin. Oh, and I miss the red-tails, too.



My experience in 20 years of flying both, as well.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:36 am

ImperialEagle wrote:
jubguy3 wrote:
The reason that Delta doesn't celebrate northwest's heritage is that they began removing special liveries (other than SkyTeam) to try to begin a brand turnaround following the merger. You need to take a look at what Delta was to consumers 10 years ago. Delta had a horrible reputation as an airline. Fast forward ten years, and anybody who follows the US aviation industry will tell you that Delta's brand strategy is the most elegant, best-regarded image of any US3. Ed Bastian and those before him spent a ton of time working to turn around what Delta meant to consumers, and it paid off. Part of that was a fully unified brand strategy, and Northwest wasn't part of that. The most significant remnant of Northwest remains in how Delta is managed. Why do people here have such a tough time seeing beyond what matters to enthusiasts? Why would anybody flying out of Atlanta or Salt Lake City or JFK want to step onto a special northwest livery aircraft? Delta has honored NW by executing the plan for what NW executives wanted the company to become. Delta has preserved DTW-Asia and operates the most capacity to the EU of any airline by preserving relationships with Air France - KLM. DTW and MSP are the 2nd and 3rd largest hubs for Delta. I'd say that they've done a good job of preserving what NW was by cutting the shit out and keeping it's best parts. They could have very well consolidated in CVG and MSP but chose to create a fully integrated corporation.


"Delta had a "horrible" reputation as an airline".
Could you be less vague?

I never had a "horrible" trip on any of the company's planes, and I never had a "horrible" trip on NW.
I never heard a frequent-flyer or business person refer to either carrier as "horrible". My history with both of these carriers goes back a ways. Today's company is the result of enrichment from all of the carriers merged over the years. Every time I book a trip on today's DL I know I am benefitting from all of that experience. Just 'sayin. Oh, and I miss the red-tails, too.


Horrible is a stretch IMHO, but Delta’s brand was very mediocre prior to the post-bankruptcy rebranding. Their aircraft were in three different liveries, faded navy blue abounded, aircraft cabins were boring at best and thread-bare at worse, and not a single product they offered was close to market leading. They were a “meh” airline.

The “change” marketing campaign, the move towards red and a bolder shade of blue as a central part of their corporate identity, along with investment in new cabins and products and classy new uniforms, completely changed the airline’s brand and was incredibly well executed.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:56 am

klm617 wrote:
Obviously you haven't connected a DTW or AMS which is leaps and bounds ahead
of the Atlanta experience. The train in Atlanta is a joke.


40+ years of connecting in SIN, ICN (and before that GMP), HND, NRT, SEA, SFO, LAX, ORD, ATL, IAD, JFK, LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA, FCO, to name a few. ATL would be better with transverse trains, like the train in DTW A concourse, running within A to F... but I said that already.
DTW ... quite a hike in the psycho-tunnel from A concourse to B concourse. No thanks.
AMS ... the "Big U". The walk from the end of B concourse to the end of D, E, F, G, or M concourses. No thanks.
Suum cuique.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 am

I can’t get into this thread for several discloses reasons, but I sure miss NW. Too bad I can’t say what I thought about the merger other than he fact that I miss Northwest Airlines.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:14 am

With the irony that from 2008 to the present, the "poster aircraft" for DL has been a repainted NW 744 (a model DL avoided, then "inherited").
 
Kno
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:15 am

As a kid I have great memories of NWs dc10s from bos-msp.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 511
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Re: Decade since Delta's merger with Northwest

Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:22 am

Flight attendants at Northwest were unionized and voted to leave their labor union — Delta's flight attendants were not and are still not unionized, unlike its other large U.S. legacy airline competitors.


Is it just me or did this line from the article seem wrong? AFAIK, there was a joint vote of DL and NW FAs and the DL side was just a bit bigger, so the lack of a union won.. Or something along those lines.

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