WS have announced "limited addition" service this summer on YQB-YYC 3-4x weekly and YXU-YVR 3x weekly.

This will be YQB's first-ever nonstop service to anywhere in Canada west of YYZ.

WS did one of these limited addition YXU-YVR services a few years back.

Evidently they're testing the waters to see whether they'll become permanent summer-seasonal routes.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/w ... 85373.html

WS operated YVR-YXU last year. I believe it’s 3 weekly eastbound and 4 weekly westbound.

From what I can see there will be no summer in Canada this year.

Skywatcher wrote:

From what I can see there will be no summer in Canada this year.

That should make both routes truly limited additions.

When will Sherbrooke, QC see commercial air service?

Noise wrote:

When will Sherbrooke, QC see commercial air service?

It’s what, an hour and a half from YUL? Seems a little close for a city of its size to get service

Noise wrote:

When will Sherbrooke, QC see commercial air service?

I do remember them announcing that they were looking for someone to operate flights to Toronto. It's something I could see Pascan flying. I feel it may be a bit small for a 74 seater.

What ever happened to Sunwing wanting to start flights out of Trois Rivieres? I think it was about 10 years ago now, but they had announced flights but then they never started.

yhu wrote:

Noise wrote:

When will Sherbrooke, QC see commercial air service?

I do remember them announcing that they were looking for someone to operate flights to Toronto. It's something I could see Pascan flying. I feel it may be a bit small for a 74 seater.

What ever happened to Sunwing wanting to start flights out of Trois Rivieres? I think it was about 10 years ago now, but they had announced flights but then they never started.

About a decade ago Sherbrooke had a M-F J31 service with someone...might have even been contracted by Pascan. It lasted a couple of years and ended in 2009.

The problem with Trois-Rivières and Sherbrooke is they're close, but not too close, to YUL and/or YQB, but they're too close to warrant having Dash 8 feeder service to either of those places. Having said that, AC did a few years back add Red Deer to YYC on BEHs, which is in a similar situation to these Quebec cities. The difference though is Red Deer would have much closer ties with the rest of Canada and more demand for air travel.

Their ties to Toronto aren't strong enough (nor with the rest of Canada for that matter for onward connections). While their ties to Ottawa are probably somewhat stronger than those with Toronto, at around 3.5 hours driving time, both are slightly too short distance wise to have viable air service there either.

As for Trois-Rivières and Sunwing, I think the problem was and still is inadequate terminal facilities, especially for CBSA.

WestJet’s “Limited Addition” program was initiated by Bill Lamberton, their first VP of Sales and Marketing, 20 years ago with some flying to YMM and YBR as a result of aircraft being ready for service in advance of projected into service dates.

YMM quickly became permanent, YBR probably should have too, but there were bigger markets to tend to at the time. YBR finally became permanent about 15 years later.

Bill was keen on summer seasonal 2-3x weekly YQB-YYC in the late 90’s as well, but the airline did not have the equipment to do it.

Maybe we’ll see YTR-YYC as a “limited addition” summer seasonal flight one day.....

As a bit of a tie-in to this post...

Is there any sort of need to make London a regional hub with something like C-Series? How robust are the airport's services now?

Jayce wrote:

WS operated YVR-YXU last year. I believe it’s 3 weekly eastbound and 4 weekly westbound.

According to YXU's website, that is true. I wonder what it'll take to make it 'permanently seasonal'?

jimbo737 wrote:

Maybe we’ll see YTR-YYC as a “limited addition” summer seasonal flight one day.....

YTR as in Trenton? While the Quinte area's population is around 100k, that would be really out of the box.

MapleLeaf789 wrote:

As a bit of a tie-in to this post...

Is there any sort of need to make London a regional hub with something like C-Series? How robust are the airport's services now?

Regional hub as in aircraft feeding a connection bank of flights or regional hub as in it's the biggest airport in SW Ontario? Maybe AC will try YYC-YXU again at some point, but that seems more like a Rouge 319 route candidate than a mainline CS3.

YXU's current service offering is:
AC Express to YYZ and YOW
WS Encore to YYZ and WS mainline year-round to YYC, plus summer-seasonal to YWG and YVR
Winter seasonal sun flying by TS, WG, Celebrity Cruises and a weekly WS to MCO.

http://flylondon.ca/flight-information/ ... ons-we-fly

Regional hub as in aircraft feeding a connection bank of flights or regional hub as in it's the biggest airport in SW Ontario? Maybe AC will try YYC-YXU again at some point, but that seems more like a Rouge 319 route candidate than a mainline CS3.

YXU's current service offering is:
AC Express to YYZ and YOW
WS Encore to YYZ and WS mainline year-round to YYC, plus summer-seasonal to YWG and YVR
Winter seasonal sun flying by TS, WG, Celebrity Cruises and a weekly WS to MCO.

http://flylondon.ca/flight-information/ ... ons-we-fly[/quote]

I guess I was thinking more of a hub unto itself for the southwest region, away from Toronto. Guelph, London, Kitchener/Waterloo are growing - and Windsor is down the road. I was thinking maybe it's more attractive to depart locally than from Toronto. But if the high speed train becomes a reality it mutes the conversation.

MapleLeaf789 wrote:

As a bit of a tie-in to this post...

Is there any sort of need to make London a regional hub with something like C-Series? How robust are the airport's services now?

A decent number of London, ON, travelers drive (or shuttle bus) to DTW for Florida flights. It saves on immigration taxes and fees on both directions. DTW has scheduled buses to London but not around metro Detroit.

WJ was on the verge of announcing YTR in roughly 2002.

Details on terminal usage and fueling issues had been worked out.

WJ’s PR people, including SV, were driving from YYZ up the 401 to make the announcement when word came down that, in spite of approvals of the base commander, Ottawa kayboshed the idea.

Someone in Ottawa, likely with some meddling, wasn’t happy with what had already occurred at YQQ, another military / civilian type operation. Naturally, there’s much more to this story.

The PR team did a u-turn and drove to YXU and the rest is history.

Adding service at YTR to points west would have been and continues to be a no brainer. It’s a huge cachement area, far bigger than many other markets that already have service.

Dominion301 wrote:

yhu wrote:

Noise wrote:

When will Sherbrooke, QC see commercial air service?

I do remember them announcing that they were looking for someone to operate flights to Toronto. It's something I could see Pascan flying. I feel it may be a bit small for a 74 seater.

What ever happened to Sunwing wanting to start flights out of Trois Rivieres? I think it was about 10 years ago now, but they had announced flights but then they never started.

About a decade ago Sherbrooke had a M-F J31 service with someone...might have even been contracted by Pascan. It lasted a couple of years and ended in 2009.

The problem with Trois-Rivières and Sherbrooke is they're close, but not too close, to YUL and/or YQB, but they're too close to warrant having Dash 8 feeder service to either of those places. Having said that, AC did a few years back add Red Deer to YYC on BEHs, which is in a similar situation to these Quebec cities. The difference though is Red Deer would have much closer ties with the rest of Canada and more demand for air travel.

Their ties to Toronto aren't strong enough (nor with the rest of Canada for that matter for onward connections). While their ties to Ottawa are probably somewhat stronger than those with Toronto, at around 3.5 hours driving time, both are slightly too short distance wise to have viable air service there either.

As for Trois-Rivières and Sunwing, I think the problem was and still is inadequate terminal facilities, especially for CBSA.

A drive from Sherbrooke to Montreal can take over 2.5 hours in traffic. With "shorter" routes like YYZ-YXU, YUL-YQB, YUL-YOW a reality, I wonder if Sherbrooke to Montreal or Toronto can work.

MIflyer12 wrote:

MapleLeaf789 wrote:

As a bit of a tie-in to this post...

Is there any sort of need to make London a regional hub with something like C-Series? How robust are the airport's services now?

A decent number of London, ON, travelers drive (or shuttle bus) to DTW for Florida flights. It saves on immigration taxes and fees on both directions. DTW has scheduled buses to London but not around metro Detroit.

Up until the merger with Delta, Northwest Airlink also had daily service to DTW.

When I took a JetBlue flight from BTV (Burlington VT) a few years ago many of the passengers were from the Sherbrooke area. It is my impression that there is some traffic flow to Ft.Lauderdale from Sherbrooke but other than that they drive rather than fly. There is also very limited interaction between the Sherbrooke area and the rest of Canada. I highly doubt we'll ever see service from Sherbrooke even though it has a healthy economy and a population of around 150k. It's cultural/habit.

Skywatcher wrote:

When I took a JetBlue flight from BTV (Burlington VT) a few years ago many of the passengers were from the Sherbrooke area. It is my impression that there is some traffic flow to Ft.Lauderdale from Sherbrooke but other than that they drive rather than fly. There is also very limited interaction between the Sherbrooke area and the rest of Canada. I highly doubt we'll ever see service from Sherbrooke even though it has a healthy economy and a population of around 150k. It's cultural/habit.

Exactly and ditto Trois-Rivières in terms of the lack of ties to the RoC. Neither airport's "terminals" are designed to handle anything bigger than a J31/BEH. Given the lack of interest by even Pascan, that speaks volumes about their future prospects.

DayFreighter wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

MapleLeaf789 wrote:

As a bit of a tie-in to this post...

Is there any sort of need to make London a regional hub with something like C-Series? How robust are the airport's services now?

A decent number of London, ON, travelers drive (or shuttle bus) to DTW for Florida flights. It saves on immigration taxes and fees on both directions. DTW has scheduled buses to London but not around metro Detroit.

Up until the merger with Delta, Northwest Airlink also had daily service to DTW.

They then had UA to ORD for a couple of years until the US carriers' massive transborder cutbacks.

Out of subject but what happened to their new livery ?

OGLOBAL wrote:

Out of subject but what happened to their new livery ?

According to the thread about it it's been pushed to May 8, but no one seems to know for sure.

yhu wrote:

Noise wrote:

When will Sherbrooke, QC see commercial air service?

I do remember them announcing that they were looking for someone to operate flights to Toronto. It's something I could see Pascan flying. I feel it may be a bit small for a 74 seater.

What ever happened to Sunwing wanting to start flights out of Trois Rivieres? I think it was about 10 years ago now, but they had announced flights but then they never started.

Strange as Sherbrooke has a pretty strong economy and has a growing population. I would expect to at least see nonstop service to YYZ or YUL.

In general Canadians fly less than Americans (domestically at least) and Quebeckers fly the least in Canada (particularly outside of Montreal).

Skywatcher wrote:

In general Canadians fly less than Americans (domestically at least) and Quebeckers fly the least in Canada (particularly outside of Montreal).

True, likely due in large part to the much higher domestic fares Canadians pay. However, internationally Canadians travel vastly more frequently than Americans do.

Dominion301 wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

In general Canadians fly less than Americans (domestically at least) and Quebeckers fly the least in Canada (particularly outside of Montreal).

True, likely due in large part to the much higher domestic fares Canadians pay. However, internationally Canadians travel vastly more frequently than Americans do.

As far as I know, there are three airports in Canada that see intercontinental flights to Europe and Asia: YUL (Montreal), YYZ (Toronto Pearson) and YVR (Vancouver). Of course, besides these three that I mention, there are more Canadian airports that see nonstop flights to the US. I know a lot of Canadians fly to Miami/Fort Lauderdale, whether just to enjoy the sun down there or take a cruise in the Caribbean.

I believe that West Jet is based in Calgary, although Toronto Pearson is a hub too.

American 767 wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

In general Canadians fly less than Americans (domestically at least) and Quebeckers fly the least in Canada (particularly outside of Montreal).

True, likely due in large part to the much higher domestic fares Canadians pay. However, internationally Canadians travel vastly more frequently than Americans do.

As far as I know, there are three airports in Canada that see intercontinental flights to Europe and Asia: YUL (Montreal), YYZ (Toronto Pearson) and YVR (Vancouver). Of course, besides these three that I mention, there are more Canadian airports that see nonstop flights to the US. I know a lot of Canadians fly to Miami/Fort Lauderdale, whether just to enjoy the sun down there or take a cruise in the Caribbean.

I believe that West Jet is based in Calgary, although Toronto Pearson is a hub too.

YYC also has service to PEK (HU) and seasonal NRT (AC) as well as AMS (KL), LHR (BA, AC), FRA (AC) and LGW (WS).

WS lists YVR, YYZ and YYC as hubs. There should be growth at these three (especially YYZ and YVR) with the 787s coming.

American 767 wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

In general Canadians fly less than Americans (domestically at least) and Quebeckers fly the least in Canada (particularly outside of Montreal).

True, likely due in large part to the much higher domestic fares Canadians pay. However, internationally Canadians travel vastly more frequently than Americans do.

As far as I know, there are three airports in Canada that see intercontinental flights to Europe and Asia: YUL (Montreal), YYZ (Toronto Pearson) and YVR (Vancouver). Of course, besides these three that I mention, there are more Canadian airports that see nonstop flights to the US. I know a lot of Canadians fly to Miami/Fort Lauderdale, whether just to enjoy the sun down there or take a cruise in the Caribbean.

I believe that West Jet is based in Calgary, although Toronto Pearson is a hub too.

There's also quite a few Canadian airports with nonstop service to Europe, but not Asia (excluding freighters), namely YYT, YHZ, YQB, YOW, YWG, YEG and YXY.

American 767 wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

In general Canadians fly less than Americans (domestically at least) and Quebeckers fly the least in Canada (particularly outside of Montreal).

True, likely due in large part to the much higher domestic fares Canadians pay. However, internationally Canadians travel vastly more frequently than Americans do.

As far as I know, there are three airports in Canada that see intercontinental flights to Europe and Asia: YUL (Montreal), YYZ (Toronto Pearson) and YVR (Vancouver). Of course, besides these three that I mention, there are more Canadian airports that see nonstop flights to the US. I know a lot of Canadians fly to Miami/Fort Lauderdale, whether just to enjoy the sun down there or take a cruise in the Caribbean.

I believe that West Jet is based in Calgary, although Toronto Pearson is a hub too.

Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Halifax, anD Quebec also gets TATL. Calgary has service to PEK.

At least theyre not running a Dash 8 from Canada to Florida ... like Porter. Who in their right mind ..... ???

It would take you 2h53m from YYZ-MCO on a WS 738.
It would take you 3h15m from YTZ-MLB on a PD DH4.

That's a difference of 22 minutes flying time. So, depending on where you live in the GTA and where you are heading to in the Orlando area - the block time is nominal. That, and you are getting complimentary beverages and snacks on PD AND 2x2 seating vs WS or AC. Only complaint would be battling the WX fronts as you head south.

PD weight restricts the Q400 on this route due runway length at YTZ, but with a premium markup they barely have to touch 40% LF to break even. Remember, PD isn't trying to be WS, AC or anyone else for that matter. They've held their own quite well for 12 years. Yes, jimbo, the terminal sale did help but that was always part of the business plan. As a scheduled carrier, they've lasted almost as long as Canadian Airlines did. In this country, that speaks volumes.

F27500 wrote:

At least theyre not running a Dash 8 from Canada to Florida ... like Porter. Who in their right mind ..... ???

Well considering they expanded MLB flying to YOW and YQG, clearly they’re attracting enough business.

jimbo737 wrote:

WestJet’s “Limited Addition” program was initiated by Bill Lamberton, their first VP of Sales and Marketing, 20 years ago with some flying to YMM and YBR as a result of aircraft being ready for service in advance of projected into service dates.

YMM quickly became permanent, YBR probably should have too, but there were bigger markets to tend to at the time. YBR finally became permanent about 15 years later.

Bill was keen on summer seasonal 2-3x weekly YQB-YYC in the late 90’s as well, but the airline did not have the equipment to do it.

Maybe we’ll see YTR-YYC as a “limited addition” summer seasonal flight one day.....

There was a small window back in '02/'03 I believe where there was some YYJ-YVR 732 service.. Can't remember the reason behind it.. Jimbo?

Dominion301 wrote:

F27500 wrote:

At least theyre not running a Dash 8 from Canada to Florida ... like Porter. Who in their right mind ..... ???

Well considering they expanded MLB flying to YOW and YQG, clearly they’re attracting enough business.

Well considering its a heavily weight restricted Dash .. operating at less than daily frequency, I wouldn't call this much of an accomplishment ... or a raging success.

F27500 wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

F27500 wrote:

At least theyre not running a Dash 8 from Canada to Florida ... like Porter. Who in their right mind ..... ???

Well considering they expanded MLB flying to YOW and YQG, clearly they’re attracting enough business.

Well considering its a heavily weight restricted Dash .. operating at less than daily frequency, I wouldn't call this much of an accomplishment ... or a raging success.

The Q is only weight restricted at YTZ due to the short runway. The fact they operate these at all instead of leaving 3 aircraft sitting idle all day on a Saturday in winter, for PD certainly indicates these routes, albeit small, contribute positively to PD’s bottom line.

OGLOBAL wrote:

Out of subject but what happened to their new livery ?

Recall what happened about 3 days after the planned rollout.

WS never operated YYJ - YVR in the 737-200, other than very rarely in an irop situation.

Even then, the economics of the -200 would make it impossible to operate profitably.

It’s a lot like trying to operate 200 mile sectors in 20+ year old 737-400’s today, with fuel 3x the price it was and then wondering why profit and reliability goes in the toilet

Perhaps the YYJ-YVR segments that I was thinking of were some cadet charters that had been "scheduled". Yes, a -200 (or any jet) would have been abysmal on that route, no doubt. I've flown J/S on that route a few times on various 737 equipment (all charters or positioning and on various carriers) and you pretty much need a 26L approach to get your ducks in a row.

Like Spirit, Flair should really market their "Bigger Seats" upfront and to a lesser extent, their extra legroom emergency exit seating. This could potentially bring in a few extra thousand $$ per flight - if marketed and executed properly. Sadly, it most likely will not be.

jimbo737 wrote:

WJ was on the verge of announcing YTR in roughly 2002.

Details on terminal usage and fueling issues had been worked out.

WJ’s PR people, including SV, were driving from YYZ up the 401 to make the announcement when word came down that, in spite of approvals of the base commander, Ottawa kayboshed the idea.

Someone in Ottawa, likely with some meddling, wasn’t happy with what had already occurred at YQQ, another military / civilian type operation. Naturally, there’s much more to this story.

The PR team did a u-turn and drove to YXU and the rest is history.

Adding service at YTR to points west would have been and continues to be a no brainer. It’s a huge cachement area, far bigger than many other markets that already have service.

Wow that’s something. With WS present day legacy-ish business model, I wonder whether they’d ever revisit YTR? YTR did have scheduled airline services up until the early 90s, with I believe Air Ontario Dash 8s 3x/day to YYZ.

CFWAD wrote:

jimbo737 wrote:

WestJet’s “Limited Addition” program was initiated by Bill Lamberton, their first VP of Sales and Marketing, 20 years ago with some flying to YMM and YBR as a result of aircraft being ready for service in advance of projected into service dates.

YMM quickly became permanent, YBR probably should have too, but there were bigger markets to tend to at the time. YBR finally became permanent about 15 years later.

Bill was keen on summer seasonal 2-3x weekly YQB-YYC in the late 90’s as well, but the airline did not have the equipment to do it.

Maybe we’ll see YTR-YYC as a “limited addition” summer seasonal flight one day.....

There was a small window back in '02/'03 I believe where there was some YYJ-YVR 732 service.. Can't remember the reason behind it.. Jimbo?

Just going from memory here, but I think they did for a couple of weeks during a BC Ferries strike in the pre-Q400 era.

Trois Rivieres had Air Canada viscount service when I was a kid in the late sixties (daily YUL-YTR-YQB). Crazy but true.