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yeogeo
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Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:19 am

Lazare in the Chicago Business Journal has an article quoting the UA president at an MRO convention:
DEN, IAH and ORD are where the growth is focused.

“If you plot it out by hub, it’s almost a straight line — the higher the connectivity, the more profitable the hub.”

Kirby emphasized that... O’Hare, Denver International Airport and George Bush Houston Intercontinental Airport — are where United intends to grow most aggressively in order to be more competitive.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=81022161
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:28 am

Those are 6-month old comments. Kirby simply giving a canned speech at MRO conference.
Nothing new
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yeogeo
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:00 am

I hadn't heard the strategy put so succinctly, LAX, that's all - you've probably heard it all before.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:04 am

How much more can UA grow in Denver? Plus thinking about Salt Lake City expanding airport, they can compete more successfully against Denver.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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janders
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:15 am

Yeah same story line United has been pitching now at investor events over last many months and during Q4 earnings call.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
748iDEN
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:07 am

dc10lover wrote:
How much more can UA grow in Denver? Plus thinking about Salt Lake City expanding airport, they can compete more successfully against Denver.


They can grow DEN by quite a bit especially for TATL and TPAC. I've always found it odd that until now UA hasn't flown to Europe and only now do we get a 3x weekly seasonal flight to LHR on UA. Comparatively we have a daily 744 on BA and the 2X weekly 789 on DY as well as to CDG so surely there is demand to Europe from DEN. The flight to NRT seems to be doing well but again I would have thought that for a hub the size of DEN one more TPAC would be in order.

Regardless I hope that UA continues to grow my hometown airport!
 
RJNUT
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:32 pm

of all the US3's , it appears UA and AA will retrench to fortify their hubs and let only DL dabble in PTP flying?
 
77H
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:47 pm

dc10lover wrote:
How much more can UA grow in Denver? Plus thinking about Salt Lake City expanding airport, they can compete more successfully against Denver.


SLC expansion or not, the DEN metro area is 2 times larger than SLC. That means, at a minimum double the O&D potential. Not to mention that COS, a city of nearly 500,000 is within the DEN catchment area which increases O&D potential. DL primarily uses SLC is a connecting hub. UA does the same but DEN has the added bonus of being a large O&D market.

While skeptical that UA can grow to the degree Kirby has stated I do think there is room for appreciable growth. Beyond upgauges and opening new markets, UA can also look to eat into F9's or WN's marketshare. F9 most likely.

I agree that UA could look to expand its international offerings from/to DEN nonstop. The unknown question would be what impact it would have, if any on other existing routes. For example, previous to DEN getting a NRT nonstop, most customers were probably routed over SFO and LAX. The nonstop invetiably changed traffic flows over each routing pair (DEN-SFO-NRT // DEN-LAX-NRT). Before pulling the trigger on a TPAC/TALT nonstop exDEN, UA would certainly need understand what impact it would have on existing services, and if adding a nonstop would have negative impact on exisiting service.

77H
 
mn2018
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:08 pm

When will United announce it's next round of new Express routes from ORD? They talk about adding new routes but I don't see any expansion lately. I would guess Toledo, Bloomington, and Dubuque as possible new stations. Any other places to add to the list?
 
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STT757
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:22 pm

Denver recently approved a major expansion of DEN, UA will have additional Gates for growth.
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32andBelow
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:41 pm

77H wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
How much more can UA grow in Denver? Plus thinking about Salt Lake City expanding airport, they can compete more successfully against Denver.


SLC expansion or not, the DEN metro area is 2 times larger than SLC. That means, at a minimum double the O&D potential. Not to mention that COS, a city of nearly 500,000 is within the DEN catchment area which increases O&D potential. DL primarily uses SLC is a connecting hub. UA does the same but DEN has the added bonus of being a large O&D market.

While skeptical that UA can grow to the degree Kirby has stated I do think there is room for appreciable growth. Beyond upgauges and opening new markets, UA can also look to eat into F9's or WN's marketshare. F9 most likely.

I agree that UA could look to expand its international offerings from/to DEN nonstop. The unknown question would be what impact it would have, if any on other existing routes. For example, previous to DEN getting a NRT nonstop, most customers were probably routed over SFO and LAX. The nonstop invetiably changed traffic flows over each routing pair (DEN-SFO-NRT // DEN-LAX-NRT). Before pulling the trigger on a TPAC/TALT nonstop exDEN, UA would certainly need understand what impact it would have on existing services, and if adding a nonstop would have negative impact on exisiting service.

77H

Yea but DEN is also a large WN hub, and DL has SLC almost to themselves.
 
gwrudolph
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:49 pm

[quote][/quote]

What happened to all the talk about growth at LAX?!?!?!
 
SESGDL
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:50 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Lazare in the Chicago Business Journal has an article quoting the UA president at an MRO convention:
DEN, IAH and ORD are where the growth is focused.

“If you plot it out by hub, it’s almost a straight line — the higher the connectivity, the more profitable the hub.”

Kirby emphasized that... O’Hare, Denver International Airport and George Bush Houston Intercontinental Airport — are where United intends to grow most aggressively in order to be more competitive.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=81022161


Certainly supported by DL’s focus on ATL and AA’s statements about CLT being the most profitable hub. What’s changed so much since consolidation that suddenly the largest connecting markets are now the most profitable? Is competition driving down fares at larger O&D markets?

Jeremy
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:05 pm

SESGDL wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
Lazare in the Chicago Business Journal has an article quoting the UA president at an MRO convention:
DEN, IAH and ORD are where the growth is focused.

“If you plot it out by hub, it’s almost a straight line — the higher the connectivity, the more profitable the hub.”

Kirby emphasized that... O’Hare, Denver International Airport and George Bush Houston Intercontinental Airport — are where United intends to grow most aggressively in order to be more competitive.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=81022161


Certainly supported by DL’s focus on ATL and AA’s statements about CLT being the most profitable hub. What’s changed so much since consolidation that suddenly the largest connecting markets are now the most profitable? Is competition driving down fares at larger O&D markets?

Jeremy


I can answer that.

Its because, right now, domestic flying is a lot more profitable than International flying. DEN is UA's most profitable hub despite, overwhelmingly, being its least international. Airlines grow where the money is. DEN, ORD, and IAH carry the bulk of their domestic flying. As such, thats where they need to grow. I doubt UA makes much money at LAX and IAD. Why the would grow them right now when they could grow a market like DEN, ORD, or IAH doesn't make sense.

Less competition = more money and higher fares. Thats why a market like MSP has always been profitable. NW/DL always had a stranglehold. Same with CLT.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:16 pm

gwrudolph wrote:


What happened to all the talk about growth at LAX?!?!?!


Too much competition. It's a four-way slugfest; five if you count AS on the West Coast flying.
 
fry530
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:02 pm

748iDEN wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
How much more can UA grow in Denver? Plus thinking about Salt Lake City expanding airport, they can compete more successfully against Denver.


They can grow DEN by quite a bit especially for TATL and TPAC. I've always found it odd that until now UA hasn't flown to Europe and only now do we get a 3x weekly seasonal flight to LHR on UA. Comparatively we have a daily 744 on BA and the 2X weekly 789 on DY as well as to CDG so surely there is demand to Europe from DEN. The flight to NRT seems to be doing well but again I would have thought that for a hub the size of DEN one more TPAC would be in order.

Regardless I hope that UA continues to grow my hometown airport!


UA's LHR flight is seasonal, but it's daily. And DY is 3x weekly to LGW so there's a lot of capacity. I would love to see more TATL from DEN, but the only thing I think will happen is the LHR flight going year round. LH has tons of DEN capacity covered with daily FRA/MUC flights.

If there is any growth from UA, it seems like it will be on the domestic end with upguages and such.
319 320 32N 321 332 333 722 733 735 73G 738 739 744 752 763 772 77W CR2 CR7 Q400 E145 E170 DC10 MD80
AA BA BD CO DL EI F9 HP NW NZ UA U2 WN Y4
 
masseybrown
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:07 pm

yeogeo wrote:
Kirby emphasized that... O’Hare, Denver International Airport and George Bush Houston Intercontinental Airport — are where United intends to grow most aggressively in order to be more competitive.


That's what Parker said at the last AA session with analysts. Hubs, hubs, hubs. The analysts love hubs. The airlines love hubs. It's only the passengers who don't.
 
gwrudolph
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:22 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:


What happened to all the talk about growth at LAX?!?!?!


Too much competition. It's a four-way slugfest; five if you count AS on the West Coast flying.


I don't disagree. My point isn't why no LAX growth. My point is what happened to all their talk about LAX growth.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:26 pm

masseybrown wrote:
That's what Parker said at the last AA session with analysts. Hubs, hubs, hubs. The analysts love hubs. The airlines love hubs. It's only the passengers who don't.


This passenger loves a hub - wouldn't hardly be flying anywhere without.

yeogeo
small market USA
 
Bald1983
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:31 pm

Denver has a lot of room to grow.
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:45 pm

IAH does have a lot of potential of expansion as well, with the energy sector on the recovery, I think we can see IAH recovering lost ground quickly.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
CX747
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:35 pm

So as a consistent customer out of EWR I’m left out in the cold? I see UA 787s only at other airports and learned that the 737-9s are going to IAH. Tell me again what I’m getting at EWR?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Begues
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:46 pm

yeogeo wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
That's what Parker said at the last AA session with analysts. Hubs, hubs, hubs. The analysts love hubs. The airlines love hubs. It's only the passengers who don't.


This passenger loves a hub - wouldn't hardly be flying anywhere without.

yeogeo
small market USA


You can't be flying much then I guess, because I can think of much better things to do with my time than wasting it being cattled around in cramped terminals and flown in the wrong direction for hours just becuase airline x has no ptp on my route.
 
flyguy84
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:54 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:

What happened to all the talk about growth at LAX?!?!?!


Too much competition. It's a four-way slugfest; five if you count AS on the West Coast flying.


I don't disagree. My point isn't why no LAX growth. My point is what happened to all their talk about LAX growth.

Thanks to Smi/J there is no room for growth at LAX. Kirby is working to fix that.
SFO
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:09 pm

Begues wrote:
You can't be flying much then I guess, because I can think of much better things to do with my time than wasting it being cattled around in cramped terminals and flown in the wrong direction for hours just becuase airline x has no ptp on my route.


Yes, you are guessing - I've gone 75000miles + /year for more than 10 years running. Last major trip in Feb: GRB-ORD-SFO-ICN-CXR-HAN-HND-ORD-GRB, along with three domestic runs since.

What are you thinking? That only people who live within a couple of hour's drive of a major airport fly extensively? Get real.
 
Flighty
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:22 pm

Nothing substantive to add but yes, domestic flying has kept the industry’s bills paid for years. In the past, the majority of global civil aviation and airline miles occurred within the USA itself. It is still the largest economy and does not use railroads very much. So there is a domestic passenger airline industry of perhaps $160 Billion per year. What fraction is that of the global passenger market, less than half now, but still a pretty big fraction. The passengers are loyal. Various forms of entrenchment have allowed the companies to earn a good rate of return.
 
drdisque
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:30 pm

possible UAX adds at ORD would be: TOL, DBQ, MQT, BMI, TRI, MHK, YXU (resumption) or YKF. Those are pretty slim pickings.

Everything else within 800 miles is either EAS or have very entrenched other carriers and and are far away (DHN, VLD, SBY, LYH, OAJ, ABY, AGS, FAY, EWN, FLO) or are much better served through IAH (small East Texas and Louisiana airports - I really doubt SPS, MLU, or LFT have much demand to ORD or its unique connecting points).
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:53 pm

drdisque wrote:
possible UAX adds at ORD would be: TOL, DBQ, MQT, BMI, TRI, MHK, YXU (resumption) or YKF. Those are pretty slim pickings.


Upguaging routes seems to me where much of the growth Kirby is talking about will come from - not all in new routes, surely.
 
UALifer
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:24 am

flyguy84 wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Too much competition. It's a four-way slugfest; five if you count AS on the West Coast flying.


I don't disagree. My point isn't why no LAX growth. My point is what happened to all their talk about LAX growth.

Thanks to Smi/J there is no room for growth at LAX. Kirby is working to fix that.


Not sure why you all think LAX isn’t growing. UA is growing at LAX something like 10% this year. This summer they have more than 20 additional departures than last summer.
 
kimbra
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Re: Kirby: 3 UA Mid-Continent Hubs are Where the Growth Is

Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:05 am

CX747 wrote:
So as a consistent customer out of EWR I’m left out in the cold? I see UA 787s only at other airports and learned that the 737-9s are going to IAH. Tell me again what I’m getting at EWR?

You are getting similar old airplanes we have out of IAH in particular Europe/NRT & deep Sout America .

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