F9Animal
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 pm

I am surprised at how poorly this was handled, especially the 2 Mexico flights. I know weather is beyond their control. But! The right thing to do would have been to get those passengers home. Even if it meant signing over the tickets to other carriers and taking a hit financially. I have a feeling a few exec's will take some major heat for this.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 pm

FlyHappy wrote:

Your principles are great, but these ideas wouldn't even get a low-level congressional committee hearing. Structurally, the US legislative process is so lop-sidely pro-business as to be laughable. Particularly this Congress, Administration and Judiciary.


I wouldn't be so sure, an American airline that is still in operation strands 300-400 Americans in a foreign country is going to act as someones political capital for the upcoming elections in November, are any of the Minnesota seats up for election on this cycle ?

klakzky123 wrote:
SY actually had very strong positive brand recognition in Minnesota. You could guarantee that the old SY would charter a flight back to Mexico (either on their own metal or someone else's). SY's brand is arguably its most important asset (at least in Minnesota). Outside of Minnesota, perhaps lower prices will be enough to keep planes filled.


Yep, I only have a few friends up in the MSP area, but SY was one of those brands (like 3M) that the people of MSP held dear, it will be interesting to see how this plays out for them.

In the long run they can shift away from MSP if need be and get through this with charter flights for the Caesars group, but that's going to be a painful experience.
 
jchaase
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:24 pm

As a MSP flyer, I’ve used SY in the past for leisure travel only. Safe to say I won’t be in the future. But whomever posted the “save $10 over DL” comment is exactly right - aside from the Minneapolis populace, no one will likely care a week from now.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3332
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:37 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
This is the kind of experience that invites government mandates. Apart from standard duty of care (meals, phone calls, and a hotel room) I can outline three options from Wash DC:

1. The carrier sends one of its planes there to depart within 24 hours

2. The carrier can charter an aircraft to depart within 24 hours

3. The carrier can book passengers over to other scheduled carriers, paying up to full published (J, Y) fares, with departures within 24 hours

Carriers that fail to do that pay a significant fine, on the order of 3x the cost of walk-up fares. Carriers that fail twice to do that within one year get their license to fly yanked. They will find adequate staff and aircraft to rebook passengers under those conditions. You'll need to find your own way home is not an acceptable treatment of U.S. passengers.

Minnesota SY passengers, write to your Congressman.


And airlines will happily pass on the cost of such overreaching legislation to their passengers. Spirit is the most blatant about this with their “regulatory compliance charge”.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
That’s the danger of not being in IATA. Ironically if the ticket had been booked on Volaris or Interjet, they’re IATA members and thus rebooking can be done. SY isn’t an IATA member. In the USA, the IATA members in passenger operations are the Big 3, Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue only. I suspect that tour operators will deal with someone like Volaris going forward.


IATA membership is not a requirement for airlines to reaccommodate on other carriers. Spirit, for example, simply buys tickets on other airlines at whatever the lowest available fare is if they can’t get a passenger to their destination within a reasonable time frame.

Flydude1063 wrote:
Exactly. A week from now if the consumer sees a fare $10 cheaper than DL, they won't hesitate to book with SY. People are quick to forget if they save a few bucks. I just don't see this being the SY killer than so many are making it out to be.


There’s only so much you can alienate your customers before they stop considering you regardless of the cost. Even Ryanair and Spirit had to start focusing on improving the customer experience after years of counting on low fares to keep the planes full.
 
F27500
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:44 pm

What a sleazy, trashy way to handle your passengers. "Sorry .. end of season .. no more flights scheduled" ..... what ??

You don't just strand a plane load (2, really) of your own pax in a foreign country and tell them to pay their own way back.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3046
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:35 pm

jchaase wrote:
As a MSP flyer, I’ve used SY in the past for leisure travel only. Safe to say I won’t be in the future. But whomever posted the “save $10 over DL” comment is exactly right - aside from the Minneapolis populace, no one will likely care a week from now.


Who flies SY besides the "Minneapolis populace" ? They are alienating their ONLY customer base with this nonsense...
 
User avatar
NeBaNi
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:45 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:22 am

P1aneMad wrote:
You pay peanuts, you buy monkeys.

I would love to pay peanuts and be able to buy monkeys to be honest :rotfl:
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 554
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:08 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

as others have said, Then you charter a plane. Pretty simple.


Couldn’t they just have arranged with other carriers to get people home? There were no seats on AS through SEA, or AA through DFW, for example?


That’s the danger of not being in IATA. Ironically if the ticket had been booked on Volaris or Interjet, they’re IATA members and thus rebooking can be done. SY isn’t an IATA member. In the USA, the IATA members in passenger operations are the Big 3, Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue only. I suspect that tour operators will deal with someone like Volaris going forward.



Are you sure about that? I think you're referring to the situation when a carrier is NON-ARC, which to the best of my knowledge and I'm a Travel Agent, SY is both affiliated with the IATA (likely heavily and for a long time being so charter and package centric), and they also are now ARC, meaning they can interline to other carriers. Carriers that are totally out of the mix, meaning you can't even sell them in a GDS are basically only G4 now in the U.S. but does include Volaris in Mexico. Carriers like F9/NK & PD can be sold but are more difficult to sell requiring more labor intensive steps.
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3046
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:18 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Couldn’t they just have arranged with other carriers to get people home? There were no seats on AS through SEA, or AA through DFW, for example?


That’s the danger of not being in IATA. Ironically if the ticket had been booked on Volaris or Interjet, they’re IATA members and thus rebooking can be done. SY isn’t an IATA member. In the USA, the IATA members in passenger operations are the Big 3, Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue only. I suspect that tour operators will deal with someone like Volaris going forward.



Are you sure about that? I think you're referring to the situation when a carrier is NON-ARC, which to the best of my knowledge and I'm a Travel Agent, SY is both affiliated with the IATA (likely heavily and for a long time being so charter and package centric), and they also are now ARC, meaning they can interline to other carriers. Carriers that are totally out of the mix, meaning you can't even sell them in a GDS are basically only G4 now in the U.S. but does include Volaris in Mexico. Carriers like F9/NK & PD can be sold but are more difficult to sell requiring more labor intensive steps.


Sun Country is a part of the IATA - you cannot have an IATA code (SY) with being a part of it. SY does have a few interline agreements - most notably with EK, CI, FI, DE, AS, and VX -- but I have never heard of SY booking a passenger on another carriier during IRRPOS, even in the good old semi-full service Sun Country days...
 
ltbewr
Posts: 13493
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:36 am

Many of these passengers have jobs they have to go back to, family to be home for, have to take unpaid leave, kids may be out of school for more days, $100's of dollars a day for a hotel, meals and getting around, may have health conditions or need for medicines that cannot be met in Mexico. I bet there are several victim chasing MN based attorneys seeking these left behind people to be clients to sue Sun Country in a large civil lawsuit to make the cut (1/3+ of damage settlements/Judgments).
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:47 am

usflyer msp wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

That’s the danger of not being in IATA. Ironically if the ticket had been booked on Volaris or Interjet, they’re IATA members and thus rebooking can be done. SY isn’t an IATA member. In the USA, the IATA members in passenger operations are the Big 3, Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue only. I suspect that tour operators will deal with someone like Volaris going forward.



Are you sure about that? I think you're referring to the situation when a carrier is NON-ARC, which to the best of my knowledge and I'm a Travel Agent, SY is both affiliated with the IATA (likely heavily and for a long time being so charter and package centric), and they also are now ARC, meaning they can interline to other carriers. Carriers that are totally out of the mix, meaning you can't even sell them in a GDS are basically only G4 now in the U.S. but does include Volaris in Mexico. Carriers like F9/NK & PD can be sold but are more difficult to sell requiring more labor intensive steps.


Sun Country is a part of the IATA - you cannot have an IATA code (SY) with being a part of it. SY does have a few interline agreements - most notably with EK, CI, FI, DE, AS, and VX -- but I have never heard of SY booking a passenger on another carriier during IRRPOS, even in the good old semi-full service Sun Country days...

The one time I was on SY was because AS put me on their flight when a late AS flight caused me to miss a DL connection.
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:07 am

jordanh wrote:
I believe the original poster, along with the vast majority of the rest of us, consider the "big 3" in the USA, possibly along with WN, as the "legacies" we were comparing this to. Both AB and Westjet were or are considered to be LCC's; even your own post points out that they are not "standard legacies"

Right, but you did catch that my last example was of a United flight, stranding pax about 200 pax headed to LHR, FRA, even remember one going to Kuwait back then! It happens, unfortunately. Even at the legacies.
 
jordanh
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:13 am

Chasensfo wrote:
jordanh wrote:
I believe the original poster, along with the vast majority of the rest of us, consider the "big 3" in the USA, possibly along with WN, as the "legacies" we were comparing this to. Both AB and Westjet were or are considered to be LCC's; even your own post points out that they are not "standard legacies"

Right, but you did catch that my last example was of a United flight, stranding pax about 200 pax headed to LHR, FRA, even remember one going to Kuwait back then! It happens, unfortunately. Even at the legacies.


But they didn't strand you in London, Frankfurt, or Kuwait - or some other foreign land - with no way home - right?

That is the difference.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1645
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:31 am

sunking737 wrote:
I think this issue has been beaten to death. They made a mistake. Move on to bigger and better things. They are already gearing up for summer flights, with less aircraft in their fleet until next winter. Live and learn.


Well, this is a discussion forum. When the discussion dies down then we can conclude it's beaten to death. Until then, it's interesting conversation for many. I, for one, am blown away at the decision making at the executive level and am VERY interested to see what observable impact this has on their business.

I have employees who have used them for travel. I will advise them not to if there's a choice (and there is). So... there's that.
 
travaz
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:39 am

As someone that has no opinion of SY, I am in PHX and see their planes once in awhile, I think it is unconscionable to just drop out on all those passengers. I never flew on them because there was never a convent connection anywhere from PHX to XXX on SY. This is just another example of how unimportant the passenger has become. SY wins the race to the bottom!
 
gators312
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:56 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:58 am

MSPNWA wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
.


Since you're clearly going to ignore reality of what every airline has done, then there's no point debating it with you. No wonder we rarely get meaningful discussions or action about airline practices. It's not about the sin in this case. It's about the attitude of the sinner. When the same end results aren't treated equally, nothing positive is accomplished, and it means this "outrage" is at best misplaced. Thank goodness our legal system doesn't work this way.


As a longtime lurker, I had to post to ask if you are just a troll or that much of an SY or MSP fan?? This outrage is not misplaced, and in my opinion it is absurd to think that the SY and UA comparisons are apples to apples.

We rarely get meaningful discussions because so many posters allow their feelings, fandom (A vs B, DL vs AA vs etc.) or employment history cloud the discussion.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 14843
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:16 am

If these were zero-value, consolidator (vacation package) tickets, it's unlikely any carrier with whom SY has an interline agreement would take them as Rule 120.20 since the settlement rate is face value of the coupon, and as those typically show zero, well, you get the idea. Best thing would have been to have SY arrange a charter or reach out to their counterparts at AS/DL/AA/UA/WN and arrange to buy blocks of seats for these customers.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
thaiflyer
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:55 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:32 am

sunking737 wrote:
I think this issue has been beaten to death. They made a mistake. Move on to bigger and better things. They are already gearing up for summer flights, with less aircraft in their fleet until next winter. Live and learn.


Tell that to the people who are stranded are can't afford a walk up ticket. (if they are available in the first place)
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1251
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:38 am

This is even worse than UA has been of late. I wish there was a way to just shut SY down. To leave those passengers stranded is just unconscionable.
 
User avatar
Door4Right
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:10 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:46 am

[/quote]That "all-white MD80" might have been from a charter operator I think was called "Av Atlantique"; I wound up on one of their flights from PVR back in the late 80's. I tried to Google that name, but didn't find anything; maybe someone can help.[/quote]

It was AvAtlantic and they flew MD-80s and (I think) a B727. Got in trouble with FAA while flying Bob Dole around during his presidential campaign. Shut down soon thereafter.
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:50 am

jordanh wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
jordanh wrote:
I believe the original poster, along with the vast majority of the rest of us, consider the "big 3" in the USA, possibly along with WN, as the "legacies" we were comparing this to. Both AB and Westjet were or are considered to be LCC's; even your own post points out that they are not "standard legacies"

Right, but you did catch that my last example was of a United flight, stranding pax about 200 pax headed to LHR, FRA, even remember one going to Kuwait back then! It happens, unfortunately. Even at the legacies.


But they didn't strand you in London, Frankfurt, or Kuwait - or some other foreign land - with no way home - right?

That is the difference.

LOL! If you're stuck in Mammoth Lakes, CA and going to Kuwait, is that NOT a foreign land with no way home? Not everyone is fromt he US. Some of these people got stuck for a week in this example IIRC(and some of them got no hotels, UA usually protects INTL connections with hotels even when it is wx related, but there was a conference in town and UA had very few rooms, most of which were given to mechanical/crew disrupted pax), most of those were international going to places that did not have daily service...and after having to find their way by land to FAT just to get to SFO, no easy task. While technically they were accommodated on other flights, UA still screwed them.
 
jordanh
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:04 am

Chasensfo wrote:
jordanh wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
Right, but you did catch that my last example was of a United flight, stranding pax about 200 pax headed to LHR, FRA, even remember one going to Kuwait back then! It happens, unfortunately. Even at the legacies.

But they didn't strand you in London, Frankfurt, or Kuwait - or some other foreign land - with no way home - right?
That is the difference.

LOL! If you're stuck in Mammoth Lakes, CA and going to Kuwait, is that NOT a foreign land with no way home? Not everyone is fromt he US. Some of these people got stuck for a week in this example IIRC(and some of them got no hotels, UA usually protects INTL connections with hotels even when it is wx related, but there was a conference in town and UA had very few rooms, most of which were given to mechanical/crew disrupted pax), most of those were international going to places that did not have daily service...and after having to find their way by land to FAT just to get to SFO, no easy task. While technically they were accommodated on other flights, UA still screwed them.


And what was UA supposed to do, if the weather prevented planes from flying? Defy the FAA and take off anyway? Face the wrath of god? Rent snowplows for everybody?

It looks like UA did the best it could, given your story. Are you contending SY did the best it could? :roll:
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3950
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:11 am

Sun country had to have known this was going to be a PR disaster. They could have been cheap and figured something out. This is going to cost them alot more than a charter flight, remember these people paid money. They would not loose the $100,000 or whatever for a charter flight it's that cost minus what everyone has paid. They are getting millions of negative publicity to saving chicken feed. Dumb move on their part. They are a small local image matters airline especially in the msp area.

Looking online their meltdown appears to be all over too. People just can't get a hold of them and can't rebook. Airlines are operating with zero slack more and more anything sets off massive delays and no where to rebook.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:56 am

Oh wow, this is so bad. I am hoping they seriously get ripped by the media. They fully deserve this.
Time to shut the business maybe for SY?
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:36 am

jordanh wrote:
And what was UA supposed to do, if the weather prevented planes from flying? Defy the FAA and take off anyway? Face the wrath of god? Rent snowplows for everybody?

It looks like UA did the best it could, given your story. Are you contending SY did the best it could? :roll:

Send in a rescue flight or two when the weather cleared up, maybe? Isn't that what everyone is saying Sun Country should have done? If you read my posts that you quoted, you would not be asking if I think SY did the best they could.

You're silly.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:32 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

as others have said, Then you charter a plane. Pretty simple.


Couldn’t they just have arranged with other carriers to get people home? There were no seats on AS through SEA, or AA through DFW, for example?


That’s the danger of not being in IATA. Ironically if the ticket had been booked on Volaris or Interjet, they’re IATA members and thus rebooking can be done. SY isn’t an IATA member. In the USA, the IATA members in passenger operations are the Big 3, Hawaiian, Alaska, and JetBlue only. I suspect that tour operators will deal with someone like Volaris going forward.


derr, what on earth are you talking about? MITA membership (NOT IATA) is what governs most interline agreements, and just because someone is in MITA doesn't mean you can transfer that ticket to anyone else. If SY doesn't have an e-ticket agreement in place (IET), then those folks aren't going anywhere. Southwest has been able to work out some reprotection agreements with a few carriers, but that was before Amadeus came online and WN having access to a legit e-ticket database.
xx
 
TheOldDude
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:02 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:37 pm

Interesting thread with interesting opinions.

After all is said and done it's not about our opinions. It's all about the Benjamins. Like with any business, the airline's customers vote with their dollars. If the votes do not noticeably change revenues, nothing will change. If revenues do change, the airline might change. Stay tuned.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:39 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
If these were zero-value, consolidator (vacation package) tickets, it's unlikely any carrier with whom SY has an interline agreement would take them as Rule 120.20 since the settlement rate is face value of the coupon, and as those typically show zero, well, you get the idea. Best thing would have been to have SY arrange a charter or reach out to their counterparts at AS/DL/AA/UA/WN and arrange to buy blocks of seats for these customers.


the latest prorate from MITA was like 12.8% of the high Y fare for billing minimums when an SPA/prorate agreement isn't in place. So they *could* push over a bulk ticket as a reroute/invol to AS, but AS will bill them for the highest value.

(this was one of the reasons DL/AA got into a tiff a while back, if you remember... DL wanted a higher % than what MITA and others had agreed upon).
xx
 
flyfresno
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:46 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
jordanh wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
Right, but you did catch that my last example was of a United flight, stranding pax about 200 pax headed to LHR, FRA, even remember one going to Kuwait back then! It happens, unfortunately. Even at the legacies.


But they didn't strand you in London, Frankfurt, or Kuwait - or some other foreign land - with no way home - right?

That is the difference.

LOL! If you're stuck in Mammoth Lakes, CA and going to Kuwait, is that NOT a foreign land with no way home? Not everyone is fromt he US. Some of these people got stuck for a week in this example IIRC(and some of them got no hotels, UA usually protects INTL connections with hotels even when it is wx related, but there was a conference in town and UA had very few rooms, most of which were given to mechanical/crew disrupted pax), most of those were international going to places that did not have daily service...and after having to find their way by land to FAT just to get to SFO, no easy task. While technically they were accommodated on other flights, UA still screwed them.


This doesn't make sense...FAT, while significantly closer by air, is about the same drive time as SFO, and a much longer drive than airports in RNO, BFL, BUR, ONT, and (depending on traffic) even LAX. I don't think anyone would drive to FAT to then fly to SFO from MMH...
 
lowfareair
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:57 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
jordanh wrote:
And what was UA supposed to do, if the weather prevented planes from flying? Defy the FAA and take off anyway? Face the wrath of god? Rent snowplows for everybody?

It looks like UA did the best it could, given your story. Are you contending SY did the best it could? :roll:

Send in a rescue flight or two when the weather cleared up, maybe? Isn't that what everyone is saying Sun Country should have done? If you read my posts that you quoted, you would not be asking if I think SY did the best they could.

You're silly.


Did United actually cancel 13 flights in a row and then end service, not providing any assistance to passengers beyond a refund, or did they provide/compensate the cost of travel to FAT/RNO and then still got them to their final destinations? Also, when was this? I can't find any evidence that this string of cancellations even occurred, let alone United refusing to assist these passengers in any way beyond a refund of their one-way ticket price.
 
Elementalism
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:04 pm

sunking737 wrote:
I think this issue has been beaten to death. They made a mistake. Move on to bigger and better things. They are already gearing up for summer flights, with less aircraft in their fleet until next winter. Live and learn.



I noticed you took off your Sun Country avatar :)
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:42 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
jchaase wrote:
As a MSP flyer, I’ve used SY in the past for leisure travel only. Safe to say I won’t be in the future. But whomever posted the “save $10 over DL” comment is exactly right - aside from the Minneapolis populace, no one will likely care a week from now.


Who flies SY besides the "Minneapolis populace" ? They are alienating their ONLY customer base with this nonsense...


Not so much. We live in the world of Expedia now. Anyone in any market going from Point A to Point B in or out of Minneapolis will see a price they want slam right up in their faces during their next dump and jump on it.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:43 pm

sunking737 wrote:
I think this issue has been beaten to death. They made a mistake. Move on to bigger and better things. They are already gearing up for summer flights, with less aircraft in their fleet until next winter. Live and learn.


Pretty much.

Look at the bright side .... 300 or so people will be taken more seriously on their applications for "The Amazing Race."
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:08 pm

stlgph wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
jchaase wrote:
As a MSP flyer, I’ve used SY in the past for leisure travel only. Safe to say I won’t be in the future. But whomever posted the “save $10 over DL” comment is exactly right - aside from the Minneapolis populace, no one will likely care a week from now.


Who flies SY besides the "Minneapolis populace" ? They are alienating their ONLY customer base with this nonsense...


Not so much. We live in the world of Expedia now. Anyone in any market going from Point A to Point B in or out of Minneapolis will see a price they want slam right up in their faces during their next dump and jump on it.


Sure but that's not where much of SY's flying and profits come from.
It comes from Winter getaways Oct-April originating from MSP (I'm pretty sure you know this better than I). All that talk of Transavia seasonal planes from AMS, etc, etc. Profits further enhanced by serving as tour operator (forgive semantics) for many of these longer sector beach destinations.

So sure, they get a few pax in the summer months in LA, NYC, SEA who might choose to fly SY into MSP, but not a lot. Anecdotally, I know people in a fair number of cities served by SY, who have never, ever heard of SY...... despite the fact that fly alot, and occasionally come to see me!

I don't know how to find any statistics on their customer base, but it's hard to believe they've got squat for outside MN sales (newer services from Dallas, Portland notwithstanding).

Another factor - as you say, pax in a market who Expedia a low SY fare into MSP, if so cost conscious, is likely to be a VFR type, ya? What do you suppose they are likely to do if unfamiliar with SY? Answer: "Hey Uncle Joe, should I book this cheap Sun Country ticket?" What do you suppose Uncle Joe of Lakeville is likely to say?
 
BC77008
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:11 pm

Flydude1063 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Flighty wrote:
SY is going to be rattled harder than they've ever experienced by this. A nationwide PR firestorm is not a pretty thing. I hope they survive it. Right now I put their odds at 60% and the CEO's odds at 25%.


$69 to Vegas and no one will care.



Exactly. A week from now if the consumer sees a fare $10 cheaper than DL, they won't hesitate to book with SY. People are quick to forget if they save a few bucks. I just don't see this being the SY killer than so many are making it out to be.

:checkmark: :checkmark: I'm certainly no Sun Country expert (I'm actually very unfamiliar) but I imagine with them being a leisure-oriented airline that they likely already have most of the bookings for the busy summer season that they're going to get. Leisure-oriented travelers typically book many weeks if not months in advance. By the time many people start booking for Thanksgiving and the winter holidays or even spring break and next summer this will have long blown over and some other airline somewhere will be dealing with their own public relations issue du jour.
MY favorite airline and hub is bigger and/or better than YOUR favorite airline and hub!
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:12 pm

BC77008 wrote:
:checkmark: :checkmark: I'm certainly no Sun Country expert (I'm actually very unfamiliar) but I imagine with them being a leisure-oriented airline that they likely already have most of the bookings for the busy summer season that they're going to get. Leisure-oriented travelers typically book many weeks if not months in advance. By the time many people start booking for Thanksgiving and the winter holidays or even spring break and next summer this will have long blown over and some other airline somewhere will be dealing with their own public relations issue du jour.


You'd be surprised..... leisure travelers in MN will be commonly booking next winters getaways in the next two months.
You don't wait to November to book a spring break trip coming from MN. That's an expensive way to go, and choices (like flight times) greatly reduced.
Loads of people book this stuff 6-11 months in advance.

This will hurt SY for next winter.
 
BC77008
Posts: 427
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:31 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
BC77008 wrote:
:checkmark: :checkmark: I'm certainly no Sun Country expert (I'm actually very unfamiliar) but I imagine with them being a leisure-oriented airline that they likely already have most of the bookings for the busy summer season that they're going to get. Leisure-oriented travelers typically book many weeks if not months in advance. By the time many people start booking for Thanksgiving and the winter holidays or even spring break and next summer this will have long blown over and some other airline somewhere will be dealing with their own public relations issue du jour.


You'd be surprised..... leisure travelers in MN will be commonly booking next winters getaways in the next two months.
You don't wait to November to book a spring break trip coming from MN. That's an expensive way to go, and choices (like flight times) greatly reduced.
Loads of people book this stuff 6-11 months in advance.

This will hurt SY for next winter.


You're right, I forgot about the Minnesota winters and how people are almost desperate during that time for palm trees and sunshine. And then you have convenient Delta that doesn't tell their customers good luck getting home.
MY favorite airline and hub is bigger and/or better than YOUR favorite airline and hub!
 
Elementalism
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:39 pm

Booking Hawaii for next Feb very soon.
 
klakzky123
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:44 pm

I don't think you guys realize the pavlovian effect that SY created in MSP. People book through SY directly for packages. A lot of people flat out assume that SY has the cheapest package and they just go onto the SY website and book directly. SY makes the most money off of package sales. An online travel agency like Expedia just gives you low yielding non package travelers. There are plenty of people who go straight to SY to book an integrated package to Mexico or the Caribbean and these are the passengers you risk losing when you screw up this badly.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:59 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
I don't think you guys realize the pavlovian effect that SY created in MSP. People book through SY directly for packages. A lot of people flat out assume that SY has the cheapest package and they just go onto the SY website and book directly. SY makes the most money off of package sales. An online travel agency like Expedia just gives you low yielding non package travelers. There are plenty of people who go straight to SY to book an integrated package to Mexico or the Caribbean and these are the passengers you risk losing when you screw up this badly.


Completely.
And to add to that, reading the news accounts, I'm surprised to find little local travel agencies cited (who the heck is "Emilys Travel"?) who put pax on those SY flights..... clearly, they won't be super inclined to put clients on SY next winter!

I think its clear that non MSP folks don't understand the uniqueness of SY's legacy in MN, not having had local carriers like them in decades.
What's startling to me is that several of the contrarians who've posted ("it'll blow over", "other airlines do the same thing"), are MSP based themselves.

Elementalism wrote:
Booking Hawaii for next Feb very soon.


it will be interesting to see how SY performs on that LAX-HNL leg in the future. This is the kind of area where SY was clearly looking to capture some non-MSP revenue and diversify "on the cheap".
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 14843
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:30 pm

usxguy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
If these were zero-value, consolidator (vacation package) tickets, it's unlikely any carrier with whom SY has an interline agreement would take them as Rule 120.20 since the settlement rate is face value of the coupon, and as those typically show zero, well, you get the idea. Best thing would have been to have SY arrange a charter or reach out to their counterparts at AS/DL/AA/UA/WN and arrange to buy blocks of seats for these customers.


the latest prorate from MITA was like 12.8% of the high Y fare for billing minimums when an SPA/prorate agreement isn't in place. So they *could* push over a bulk ticket as a reroute/invol to AS, but AS will bill them for the highest value.

(this was one of the reasons DL/AA got into a tiff a while back, if you remember... DL wanted a higher % than what MITA and others had agreed upon).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought those agreements only mattered when a valid fare was shown on the coupon that was pulled? I know DL wanted higher settlement rates than the 120.20 rate due to what they perceived as being a disproportionately higher number of reprotects coming from AA, but we've seen how that played out when ATL was shut down from a power outage.

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the end result of this debacle for SY will cost far more than anything they would have done to make things right by their customers.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
sunking737
Posts: 1308
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:19 pm

Elementalism wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
I think this issue has been beaten to death. They made a mistake. Move on to bigger and better things. They are already gearing up for summer flights, with less aircraft in their fleet until next winter. Live and learn.



I noticed you took off your Sun Country avatar :)


As a former employee of Sun Country and knowing the founders of the company back in 1983, I am totally disgusted in how this was handled. SO many of us worked hard to build the company reputation, this idiot pissed on that in one canceled flight.
I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
Elementalism
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:24 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Elementalism wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
I think this issue has been beaten to death. They made a mistake. Move on to bigger and better things. They are already gearing up for summer flights, with less aircraft in their fleet until next winter. Live and learn.



I noticed you took off your Sun Country avatar :)


As a former employee of Sun Country and knowing the founders of the company back in 1983, I am totally disgusted in how this was handled. SO many of us worked hard to build the company reputation, this idiot pissed on that in one canceled flight.


:thumbsup:
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:04 pm

flyfresno wrote:
This doesn't make sense...FAT, while significantly closer by air, is about the same drive time as SFO, and a much longer drive than airports in RNO, BFL, BUR, ONT, and (depending on traffic) even LAX. I don't think anyone would drive to FAT to then fly to SFO from MMH...


LOL well that is what the Horizon Air CS agents(they had the ground handling contract) did for the UA pax in this case. Ask them, none of the pax questioned it, they were just livid when they got to SFO and the time it would take for their journey was way under-estimated so most of them arrived around 2100 to SFO missing most of the departures that night. You live in FAT right? Ask people who were around back then. This wasn't a 1 time deal that pax drove from MMH to FAT to resume travel. Horizon to LAX/SJC were the only back up option, and they had heavy loads in the winter season so they usually were not an option, they used to cancel fairly often too. Back then Alaska was unable to connect pax on to most of the UA destinations, their network was much smaller, and airlines usually avoided rebooking pax from 1 airline to another in LAX due to having to re-clear security in most cases and unpredictable times related to that adventure. But I'm sure QX carried plenty of pax out when it all went smoothly.

lowfareair wrote:
Did United actually cancel 13 flights in a row and then end service, not providing any assistance to passengers beyond a refund, or did they provide/compensate the cost of travel to FAT/RNO and then still got them to their final destinations? Also, when was this? I can't find any evidence that this string of cancellations even occurred, let alone United refusing to assist these passengers in any way beyond a refund of their one-way ticket price.


Nope. Reading comprehension, ameigo. What I said was, when the route STARTED, 13 flights in a row cancelled after the inaugural, then the LAST 3 cancelled months later. With a lot in between. We seriously used to staff the customer service counter with 1-2 agents every quiet day when this flight would approach boarding time, and a ramp crew would be at least "thought up" to handle the air-return that happened more often than not....seriously. It was that bad. The flight had a completion rate well over 20% in 2010(I think) when it started. One problem was only a few captains(all SFO based) at the whole airline were MMH checked-out, and if they misconnected due to IROPS working on another aircraft, that was usually a cancellation instead of a new crew. But the main problem was the flight was in the evening and operated at night, this lead the more problems and worse weather. UA learned, and the next season operated only morning flights(adding SNA and I think another city or 2 also), like QX had done all along, and the delays were minimal, but still more than most cities except maybe ACV(fog).

NEVER did I say UA didn't assist them in any way beyond a refund, not sure where you ready that, bud. I said regardless of this, the pax had to find their own way, by ground, in snow, to FAT, then were sent on to their destinations. I would guess many went thru LAX or DEN possibly from FAT, but plenty of connecting pax rolled into SFO the night of the last flight and some were screwed. There were a few I remember connecting onto Lufthansa onto airports in Europe that didn't have daily service, and the guy going to Kuwait City when the UA flight wasn't daily, was usually full, and required getting to IAD which was an issue if I remember due to all the IROPS. That guy got a hotel, despite it being a wx issue, since he was an international pax. But the time between his scheduled flight from MMH and stepping off the plane in Kuwait was about 7 days. He was actually more chill than a lot of the people who got out in a day or 2 connecting domestically. The most bizarre was a guy trying to fly MMH-SFO 2 days in a row, then drives to FAT, hops on a Brasilia for FAT-SFO-SAN(maybe LAX filled up?), then when he gets to the counter, CANCELS what is left of his last flight coupon, and drives. Um, OK? He could have got there by air at 10PM the next day and showed up to standby anytime, not sure why he didn't just drive from FAT...it wasn't like he almost even made the flight. If you want evidence, ask any random person who worked the 2010 winter at SFO for United Express. They'll probably laugh and tell you a lot of stories.

You guys picture the airlines a certain way, but when you work in the world of aviation, you see it runs ass backwards. It's all part of the magic.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:46 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
This doesn't make sense...FAT, while significantly closer by air, is about the same drive time as SFO, and a much longer drive than airports in RNO, BFL, BUR, ONT, and (depending on traffic) even LAX. I don't think anyone would drive to FAT to then fly to SFO from MMH...


LOL well that is what the Horizon Air CS agents(they had the ground handling contract) did for the UA pax in this case. Ask them, none of the pax questioned it, they were just livid when they got to SFO and the time it would take for their journey was way under-estimated so most of them arrived around 2100 to SFO missing most of the departures that night. You live in FAT right? Ask people who were around back then. This wasn't a 1 time deal that pax drove from MMH to FAT to resume travel. Horizon to LAX/SJC were the only back up option, and they had heavy loads in the winter season so they usually were not an option, they used to cancel fairly often too. Back then Alaska was unable to connect pax on to most of the UA destinations, their network was much smaller, and airlines usually avoided rebooking pax from 1 airline to another in LAX due to having to re-clear security in most cases and unpredictable times related to that adventure. But I'm sure QX carried plenty of pax out when it all went smoothly.

lowfareair wrote:
Did United actually cancel 13 flights in a row and then end service, not providing any assistance to passengers beyond a refund, or did they provide/compensate the cost of travel to FAT/RNO and then still got them to their final destinations? Also, when was this? I can't find any evidence that this string of cancellations even occurred, let alone United refusing to assist these passengers in any way beyond a refund of their one-way ticket price.


Nope. Reading comprehension, ameigo. What I said was, when the route STARTED, 13 flights in a row cancelled after the inaugural, then the LAST 3 cancelled months later. With a lot in between. We seriously used to staff the customer service counter with 1-2 agents every quiet day when this flight would approach boarding time, and a ramp crew would be at least "thought up" to handle the air-return that happened more often than not....seriously. It was that bad. The flight had a completion rate well over 20% in 2010(I think) when it started. One problem was only a few captains(all SFO based) at the whole airline were MMH checked-out, and if they misconnected due to IROPS working on another aircraft, that was usually a cancellation instead of a new crew. But the main problem was the flight was in the evening and operated at night, this lead the more problems and worse weather. UA learned, and the next season operated only morning flights(adding SNA and I think another city or 2 also), like QX had done all along, and the delays were minimal, but still more than most cities except maybe ACV(fog).

NEVER did I say UA didn't assist them in any way beyond a refund, not sure where you ready that, bud. I said regardless of this, the pax had to find their own way, by ground, in snow, to FAT, then were sent on to their destinations. I would guess many went thru LAX or DEN possibly from FAT, but plenty of connecting pax rolled into SFO the night of the last flight and some were screwed. There were a few I remember connecting onto Lufthansa onto airports in Europe that didn't have daily service, and the guy going to Kuwait City when the UA flight wasn't daily, was usually full, and required getting to IAD which was an issue if I remember due to all the IROPS. That guy got a hotel, despite it being a wx issue, since he was an international pax. But the time between his scheduled flight from MMH and stepping off the plane in Kuwait was about 7 days. He was actually more chill than a lot of the people who got out in a day or 2 connecting domestically. The most bizarre was a guy trying to fly MMH-SFO 2 days in a row, then drives to FAT, hops on a Brasilia for FAT-SFO-SAN(maybe LAX filled up?), then when he gets to the counter, CANCELS what is left of his last flight coupon, and drives. Um, OK? He could have got there by air at 10PM the next day and showed up to standby anytime, not sure why he didn't just drive from FAT...it wasn't like he almost even made the flight. If you want evidence, ask any random person who worked the 2010 winter at SFO for United Express. They'll probably laugh and tell you a lot of stories.

You guys picture the airlines a certain way, but when you work in the world of aviation, you see it runs ass backwards. It's all part of the magic.

What is your point here? UA is not known as the most customer friendly airline. This comparison is making SY look even worse. Look at all the things UA did that SY didn't. They actually provided alternative transportation. They even provided some hotels. It is unfortunate that some of the UA passengers had to make their way to FAT, but SY didn't offer transportation to an airport near MSP, they didn't offer transportation from a nearby Mexican airport, they didn't offer transportation 2 days or even 7 days latter, and they didn't offer anyone a hotel. There is a big difference between not doing as much as we would like and doing absolutely nothing.
 
pshifrin
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 10:02 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:50 pm

During a post major winter storm years ago, I flew a JetBlue flight operated by a North American Airlines 757 to Florida because they needed the extra lift. It can and has been done... if the airline wants to!
 
Flighty
Posts: 9554
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:51 pm

I think SY has survived this mistake! National media, Drudge, CNN, NYT did not pick up the story (much).

Today, obviously with the WN emergency engine frag, there is a new airline story that is even more... attention getting. SY lives to fly on.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10420
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:01 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Who flies SY besides the "Minneapolis populace" ? They are alienating their ONLY customer base with this nonsense...


Not so much. We live in the world of Expedia now. Anyone in any market going from Point A to Point B in or out of Minneapolis will see a price they want slam right up in their faces during their next dump and jump on it.


Sure but that's not where much of SY's flying and profits come from.
It comes from Winter getaways Oct-April originating from MSP (I'm pretty sure you know this better than I). All that talk of Transavia seasonal planes from AMS, etc, etc. Profits further enhanced by serving as tour operator (forgive semantics) for many of these longer sector beach destinations.

So sure, they get a few pax in the summer months in LA, NYC, SEA who might choose to fly SY into MSP, but not a lot. Anecdotally, I know people in a fair number of cities served by SY, who have never, ever heard of SY...... despite the fact that fly alot, and occasionally come to see me!

I don't know how to find any statistics on their customer base, but it's hard to believe they've got squat for outside MN sales (newer services from Dallas, Portland notwithstanding).

Another factor - as you say, pax in a market who Expedia a low SY fare into MSP, if so cost conscious, is likely to be a VFR type, ya? What do you suppose they are likely to do if unfamiliar with SY? Answer: "Hey Uncle Joe, should I book this cheap Sun Country ticket?" What do you suppose Uncle Joe of Lakeville is likely to say?


The belief that Sun Country's passengers are all Minneapolis-based is 5 years ago.

And for the record, Los Angeles to Honolulu has booked so well, they've added extra sections.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:03 pm

Flighty wrote:
I think SY has survived this mistake! National media, Drudge, CNN, NYT did not pick up the story (much).

Today, obviously with the WN emergency engine frag, there is a new airline story that is even more... attention getting. SY lives to fly on.


It was never about the national media. Its about MSP/local perception.
SY is trying to break out of a single market customer base, but are quite a ways from doing so. Until they are, they are highly vulnerable to an unhappy single Metro.
Doubtful the page will be turned quite this quickly.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 698
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Sun Country (SY) strands hundreds of passengers in Mexico and tells them to find their own way home

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:06 pm

stlgph wrote:

The belief that Sun Country's passengers are all Minneapolis-based is 5 years ago.


With pretty good reason.
Care to point to any stats that suggest otherwise? And particularly, that the more lucrative winter/beach package bookings are done by markets (how much is Dallas, etc)?

stlgph wrote:

And for the record, Los Angeles to Honolulu has booked so well, they've added extra sections.


I certainly wasn't questioning any past or present bookings.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos