Aeromexico resumes Barcelona service

bcn92 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:43 am

Aeromexico have announced that will resume Barcelona service from October 31st four times a week. The route will be operated by B787.

http://enelaire.mx/aeromexico-anuncia-v ... na-espana/

FatCat · Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:50 am

Nice but I still prefer IB A346 :-)

MalevTU134 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:10 am

Means Mexican authorities will never approve EK's DXB-BCN-MEX.

RainerBoeing777 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:40 am

Congratulations ! finally return to Barcelona was a very important route to return, I hope new routes such as Frankfurt, Rome, pity that Aeromexico did not add the route Mexico City - Beijing

abrelosojos · Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:43 pm

Good to see AM being aggressive. As I have said before in this forum, their new commercial team is very good and smart. I am not surprised that they went and stole EK's thunder.

Saludos,
Alex

Tailwinds13 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:47 pm

Beat Level to the punch! Congrats to AM for returning to BCN. Another nice wide body to admire there. I wonder what’s next on the docket for European expansion for them.

aemoreira1981 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:28 pm

Tailwinds13 wrote:
Beat Level to the punch! Congrats to AM for returning to BCN. Another nice wide body to admire there. I wonder what’s next on the docket for European expansion for them.

All of it so far appears to be to Spain or within the large TATL JV. I’d look to Asia-Pacific...might making one of the Asia destinations daily be in the offing? What about serving PEK, 3x weekly? They can offer TPAC without needing US or Canadian customs.

dodgers702 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:58 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
Good to see AM being aggressive. As I have said before in this forum, their new commercial team is very good and smart. I am not surprised that they went and stole EK's thunder.

Saludos,
Alex

Wonder if they indeed resumed services to compete with EK. Does anybody know now that AM is going to start and have announded start date does that mean Mexican Authorities now can stop EK from starting DXB-BCN-MEX? I know the Spanish goverment had granted 5th freedom rights but was never clear if they needed approval from the Mexican Civil Aviation.

dodgers702 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:00 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Congratulations ! finally return to Barcelona was a very important route to return, I hope new routes such as Frankfurt, Rome, pity that Aeromexico did not add the route Mexico City - Beijing

I agree, I was so hoping to hear AM announce that route by now. Not sure they want to see how Hainan does first even though they only fly 3x weekly at the moment. Still glad to see AM return to BCN also.

abrelosojos · Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:01 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Tailwinds13 wrote:
Beat Level to the punch! Congrats to AM for returning to BCN. Another nice wide body to admire there. I wonder what’s next on the docket for European expansion for them.

All of it so far appears to be to Spain or within the large TATL JV. I’d look to Asia-Pacific...might making one of the Asia destinations daily be in the offing? What about serving PEK, 3x weekly? They can offer TPAC without needing US or Canadian customs.

= I do not believe AM is part of the TATL JV. Why chase PEK when there is already HU service? I still think there is so much growth they can go after, and with the new team, am sure they will get there. What I am surprised by is that they will commence operation on October 31. This is the beginning of the low season in BCN, and so AM either knows something of the market we do not, or they are being bold.

Wonder what next 787 would be? FCO? FRA? GIG? Something different?

Saludos,
Alex

dodgers702 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:22 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Tailwinds13 wrote:
Beat Level to the punch! Congrats to AM for returning to BCN. Another nice wide body to admire there. I wonder what’s next on the docket for European expansion for them.

All of it so far appears to be to Spain or within the large TATL JV. I’d look to Asia-Pacific...might making one of the Asia destinations daily be in the offing? What about serving PEK, 3x weekly? They can offer TPAC without needing US or Canadian customs.

= I do not believe AM is part of the TATL JV. Why chase PEK when there is already HU service? I still think there is so much growth they can go after, and with the new team, am sure they will get there. What I am surprised by is that they will commence operation on October 31. This is the beginning of the low season in BCN, and so AM either knows something of the market we do not, or they are being bold.

Maybe that's when EK may start their route or around that time so they wanna beat them to the punch...

Wonder what next 787 would be? FCO? FRA? GIG? Something different?

I would love for them to order some more 787 or even 777X and really expand globally. Especially knowing the new airport is going to benefit the whole country economically i think.

Saludos,
Alex

aemoreira1981 · Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:46 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Tailwinds13 wrote:
Beat Level to the punch! Congrats to AM for returning to BCN. Another nice wide body to admire there. I wonder what’s next on the docket for European expansion for them.

All of it so far appears to be to Spain or within the large TATL JV. I’d look to Asia-Pacific...might making one of the Asia destinations daily be in the offing? What about serving PEK, 3x weekly? They can offer TPAC without needing US or Canadian customs.

= I do not believe AM is part of the TATL JV. Why chase PEK when there is already HU service? I still think there is so much growth they can go after, and with the new team, am sure they will get there. What I am surprised by is that they will commence operation on October 31. This is the beginning of the low season in BCN, and so AM either knows something of the market we do not, or they are being bold.

Wonder what next 787 would be? FCO? FRA? GIG? Something different?

Saludos,
Alex

Actually that changes this year thanks to Delta. If Europe, I say MXP or FCO, maybe FRA or MUC.

abrelosojos · Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:57 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Actually that changes this year thanks to Delta. If Europe, I say MXP or FCO, maybe FRA or MUC.

= What changes due to Delta this year?

Saludos,
Alex

LatinPlane · Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:14 am

Preemptive move to convince Mexican authorities to deny 5th freedom rights to EK. Spain - Mexico market is booming and competition with IB is fierce. AM is also going almost 3x daily to MAD.

MEX - MAD 20x per week
MEX - BCN 4x per week
MEX - CDG 7x per week
MEX - AMS 7x per week
MEX - LHR 7x per week

MAD increase comes at the price of CDG staying at only daily service. Previously plan was to increase CDG to almost double daily. Resumption of BCN comes at the price of slashing service to PVG. MEX - PVG goes down to 4x per week. Perhaps increased competition from Hainan Airlines and China Southern service to Mexico.

AM last flew into BCN in 2012. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzcWIukIVxY

Next destinations in Europe should be Milan and resumption of Frankfurt as more 787s arrive.

pzurita1 · Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:21 am

LatinPlane wrote:
Resumption of BCN comes at the price of slashing service to PVG. MEX - PVG goes down to 4x per week. Perhaps increased competition from Hainan Airlines and China Southern service to Mexico.

Sad to read that. Thought Chinese market was boomimg and could support daily to PVG and services to PEK and CAN by Hainan and China Southern.

I still wonder why TP has not eyed MEX. LIS is a perfect position to hub to all Europe and more specially to Spain and France, Mexico´s top destinations. I bet TP entry to EZE is largely supported on the connecting chances to MAD, BCN, SCQ, FCO, MXP

jfk777 · Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:24 am

LatinPlane wrote:
Preemptive move to convince Mexican authorities to deny 5th freedom rights to EK. Spain - Mexico market is booming and competition with IB is fierce. AM is also going almost 3x daily to MAD.

MEX - MAD 20x per week
MEX - BCN 4x per week
MEX - CDG 7x per week
MEX - AMS 7x per week
MEX - LHR 7x per week

MAD increase comes at the price of CDG staying at only daily service. Previously plan was to increase CDG to almost double daily. Resumption of BCN comes at the price of slashing service to PVG. MEX - PVG goes down to 4x per week. Perhaps increased competition from Hainan Airlines and China Southern service to Mexico.

AM last flew into BCN in 2012. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzcWIukIVxY

Next destinations in Europe should be Milan and resumption of Frankfurt as more 787s arrive.

Does AM have enough 787 for all their requirements to EZE & GRU plus Asia and all the flights to Europe listed above ? Flying to Barcelona sounds like a great thing but it shouldn't come at the price of cancelling existing flights to other cities. Better to serve CDG at the proper level then congradulating themselves for flying to another European city.

LatinPlane · Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:47 am

Does AM have enough 787 for all their requirements to EZE & GRU plus Asia and all the flights to Europe listed above ? Flying to Barcelona sounds like a great thing but it shouldn't come at the price of cancelling existing flights to other cities. Better to serve CDG at the proper level then congradulating themselves for flying to another European city.

There's enough 787s to fulfill all long-haul flying to South America, Europe, and Asia without adding a new plane. Apparently, the 5th frequency to Shanghai wasn't giving great results so the plane that was freed from the 5th frequency allowed for 2 frequencies to open and thus with the imminent thread of EK on the horizon it was decided to return to BCN. The 2 other extra probably come at the expense of having spares sitting around. AM had to react quickly before EK encroached on its turf. BCN is a low-yielding route, and perhaps the cost advantages a 787 produces can make the difference when compared to when it flew their 767s, which operated penalized from hot and high MEX.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/cartera/negocios/aeromexico-compensa-incremento-de-costos-con-tarifas-mas-altas

Jojandro27 · Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:05 pm

I’m excited for AM’s return to Barcelona. I think this will only strengthen their European catalogue and make them more attractive to European travelers. Hopefully they have Frankfurt in the works. It’s probably their biggest whole in their Euro network.
Besides that, I think Milan would be a good option, since Rome is already being served by Alitalia.

ghost77 · Mon May 07, 2018 6:00 am

Flights have been published and opened for sales:

https://twitter.com/flyAPM/status/993361447345360896

abrelosojos wrote:
Wonder what next 787 would be? FCO? FRA? GIG? Something different?

Certainly the return to FRA should be considered anytime soon. As well returning for the 3rd and last time to FCO with the right plane, the Boeing 787.

FRA as just AM has done with BA and KL, if they go 7X like LHR and AMS, they will get a good or at least a 25 to 35% market share.

As for FCO, it's a shame AM has few widebodies, but now that Alitalia 777 started the route and dropped it for a few months, we can see, the market is there and the right size and plane is the Boeing 787. If AZ drops it again, IMHO, AM should step in with the Dreamliner.

LatinPlane wrote:
AM is also going almost 3x daily to MAD.

MEX - MAD 20x per week
MEX - BCN 4x per week
MEX - CDG 7x per week
MEX - AMS 7x per week
MEX - LHR 7x per week

MAD increase comes at the price of CDG staying at only daily service. Previously plan was to increase CDG to almost double daily. Resumption of BCN comes at the price of slashing service to PVG. MEX - PVG goes down to 4x per week. Perhaps increased competition from Hainan Airlines and China Southern service to Mexico.

I don't think this plan has changed. Even I think it will be great to see the original 2pm departure return with a Boeing 787-8 run. But AF serves well the route with Airbus 380 and both Skyteam airlines are strong. Probably it's time to stop a little more Iberia as well try to crash EK planes to get into Mexico and I don't know if this is also a Delta move to stop expansion.

Everything will eventually be and will go in hand of more Dreamliners deliveries. So far, it will 21 frames. 17th B787s is arriving this May - June 2018. The 18th will get here in November of 2018. The 19th will be here by April 2019. The 20th planed for 2020 and 21st in early 2021. So, the 19th, 20th and 21st might bring more surprises. With the 18th and 19th hopefully AM can fly:

MEX-MAD 21X
MEX-BCN 6X
MEX-CDG 9X
MEX-AMS 7X
MEX-LHR 7X
MEX-FRA 3X

g77

ghost77 · Mon May 07, 2018 6:02 am

pzurita1 wrote:
LatinPlane wrote:
Resumption of BCN comes at the price of slashing service to PVG. MEX - PVG goes down to 4x per week. Perhaps increased competition from Hainan Airlines and China Southern service to Mexico.

Sad to read that. Thought Chinese market was boomimg and could support daily to PVG and services to PEK and CAN by Hainan and China Southern.

I still wonder why TP has not eyed MEX. LIS is a perfect position to hub to all Europe and more specially to Spain and France, Mexico´s top destinations. I bet TP entry to EZE is largely supported on the connecting chances to MAD, BCN, SCQ, FCO, MXP

http://www.flyapm.com/foro/viewtopic.ph ... =17#p21428

La nueva ruta a Barcelona se abrió al cancelar la quinta frecuencia que teníamos hacia Shangai. En un mismo día de la semana teníamos dos vuelos a Shangai y el segundo no estaba funcionando, así que cancelamos ese slot y eso nos permitió abrir dos frecuencias a Barcelona, sin agregar más aviones a la flota”, explicó Conesa.

g77

AR385 · Mon May 07, 2018 6:20 am

LatinPlane wrote:
Preemptive move to convince Mexican authorities to deny 5th freedom rights to EK. Spain - Mexico market is booming and competition with IB is fierce. AM is also going almost 3x daily to MAD.

MEX - MAD 20x per week
MEX - BCN 4x per week
MEX - CDG 7x per week
MEX - AMS 7x per week
MEX - LHR 7x per week

MAD increase comes at the price of CDG staying at only daily service. Previously plan was to increase CDG to almost double daily. Resumption of BCN comes at the price of slashing service to PVG. MEX - PVG goes down to 4x per week. Perhaps increased competition from Hainan Airlines and China Southern service to Mexico.

AM last flew into BCN in 2012. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzcWIukIVxY

Next destinations in Europe should be Milan and resumption of Frankfurt as more 787s arrive.

I doubt they will start Milan before they start FCO.

ghost77 · Mon May 07, 2018 6:49 am

ghost77 wrote:
The 18th will get here in November of 2018. The 19th will be here by April 2019. The 20th planed for 2020 and 21st in early 2021. So, the 19th, 20th and 21st might bring more surprises. With the 18th and 19th hopefully AM can fly:

MEX-MAD 21X
MEX-BCN 6X
MEX-CDG 9X
MEX-AMS 7X
MEX-LHR 7X
MEX-FRA 3X

I'm sorry, I just double checked, the 18th B787 will be here by June of 2019. The 19th by late 2019, the 20th in 2020 and 21st in 2021. If things go well... this plans might change and maybe more Boeing 787s could be secured and in anticipated.

In other news... Aerolitoral dba. Aeromexico Connect is getting 4 more frames, fleet will be 64 Embraer aircraft by late this year. The Embraer 170's will start going as early as next year, March 2019 the first will leave. Only 3 more MAX Boeing 737s are due for this year. 6 more MAX -8s will get here in 2019 and 2 MAX -9s by November and December of 2019!

g77

Mex87 · Mon May 07, 2018 7:40 am

I believe some 4x 787-10s sitting around 300-320 pax. could be useful on the South America (EZE,GRU) and Europe (MAD, CDG) routes. That could free some 787-8/9s for Asia, upgrading AMS or LHR (a success, or so I´ve heard) and opening a new Asian or European destination.
Don´t you think?

LatinPlane · Thu May 10, 2018 7:59 pm

In effect, as expected, EK was denied 5th freedom rights from BCN to MEX with AM's resumption of service to BCN.

Spanish only:

http://noticaribe.com.mx/2018/05/09/el-vuelo-mexico-dubai-se-estanca-por-boicot-de-aeromexico/

While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier. Cancun tourism authorities are displeased as they had hoped to convince EK to start service to CUN once MEX had proven itself for EK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

yellowtail · Thu May 10, 2018 9:34 pm

LatinPlane wrote:
In effect, as expected, EK was denied 5th freedom rights from BCN to MEX with AM's resumption of service to BCN.

Spanish only:

http://noticaribe.com.mx/2018/05/09/el-vuelo-mexico-dubai-se-estanca-por-boicot-de-aeromexico/

While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier. Cancun tourism authorities are displeased as they had hoped to convince EK to start service to CUN once MEX had proven itself for EK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Can't EK still do DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB with the 77L?

dodgers702 · Thu May 10, 2018 9:39 pm

LatinPlane wrote:
In effect, as expected, EK was denied 5th freedom rights from BCN to MEX with AM's resumption of service to BCN.

Spanish only:

http://noticaribe.com.mx/2018/05/09/el-vuelo-mexico-dubai-se-estanca-por-boicot-de-aeromexico/

While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier. Cancun tourism authorities are displeased as they had hoped to convince EK to start service to CUN once MEX had proven itself for EK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Obviously not surprised. I just assumed the bilateral air agreement between the UAE and Mexico allowed their national carriers 5th freedom rights between both countries using certain european cities as connecting points. Wonder if this is officially dead or somehow an agreement can be reached were both airlines would get a piece of the cake? maybe a codeshare agreement between EK and AM? Just sad that we all know EK had worked hard to get 5th freedom rights from Spain only to have Mexico shut it down. But like you said, that is how the cookie crumbles...

dodgers702 · Thu May 10, 2018 9:42 pm

yellowtail wrote:
LatinPlane wrote:
In effect, as expected, EK was denied 5th freedom rights from BCN to MEX with AM's resumption of service to BCN.

Spanish only:

http://noticaribe.com.mx/2018/05/09/el-vuelo-mexico-dubai-se-estanca-por-boicot-de-aeromexico/

While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier. Cancun tourism authorities are displeased as they had hoped to convince EK to start service to CUN once MEX had proven itself for EK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Can't EK still do DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB with the 77L?

I think it can happen as long as there is no traffic rights on the MEX-CUN leg. But is there is enough traffic from DXB to MEX( and CUN) to warrant a daily flight is the question?

kiramakora · Thu May 10, 2018 10:08 pm

I think AM played it brilliantly with amazing speed to market. To be honest, did not think AM could pull something like this off. More and more, I am impressed with what their commercial team is doing.

dcajet · Thu May 10, 2018 10:11 pm

LatinPlane wrote:
In effect, as expected, EK was denied 5th freedom rights from BCN to MEX with AM's resumption of service to BCN.

Spanish only:

http://noticaribe.com.mx/2018/05/09/el-vuelo-mexico-dubai-se-estanca-por-boicot-de-aeromexico/

While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier. Cancun tourism authorities are displeased as they had hoped to convince EK to start service to CUN once MEX had proven itself for EK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Did Cristina Kirchner move to Mexico and started working at the Ministry of Aviation (or some similar dept.?)

Not good.

dodgers702 · Thu May 10, 2018 10:21 pm

kiramakora wrote:
I think AM played it brilliantly with amazing speed to market. To be honest, did not think AM could pull something like this off. More and more, I am impressed with what their commercial team is doing.

Smart move by AM but hopefully they keep this route indifintely. Would be sad to see them suspend service again.

dodgers702 · Thu May 10, 2018 10:25 pm

dcajet wrote:
LatinPlane wrote:
In effect, as expected, EK was denied 5th freedom rights from BCN to MEX with AM's resumption of service to BCN.

Spanish only:

http://noticaribe.com.mx/2018/05/09/el-vuelo-mexico-dubai-se-estanca-por-boicot-de-aeromexico/

While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier. Cancun tourism authorities are displeased as they had hoped to convince EK to start service to CUN once MEX had proven itself for EK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Did Cristina Kirchner move to Mexico and started working at the Ministry of Aviation (or some similar dept.?)

Not good.

Reading the article and trying to understand it seems they can still change their mind and grant EK rights. This is more benefiting AM than the country itself i think. I feel this would bring in good revenue and boost the Mexican economy with tourist and business feed from Dubai and other middle east/far east visitors. But it is mexicos national carrier so completely understan why they would side with AM at the moment.

MalevTU134 · Thu May 10, 2018 10:45 pm

yellowtail wrote:
LatinPlane wrote:
In effect, as expected, EK was denied 5th freedom rights from BCN to MEX with AM's resumption of service to BCN.

Spanish only:

http://noticaribe.com.mx/2018/05/09/el-vuelo-mexico-dubai-se-estanca-por-boicot-de-aeromexico/

While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier. Cancun tourism authorities are displeased as they had hoped to convince EK to start service to CUN once MEX had proven itself for EK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Can't EK still do DXB-MEX-CUN-DXB with the 77L?

Sure, but for whom? Where is the market for such a flight?

abrelosojos · Fri May 11, 2018 1:34 am

dcajet wrote:
Did Cristina Kirchner move to Mexico and started working at the Ministry of Aviation (or some similar dept.?)

Not good.

= Man, here we go again with your anti-Mexico rant? Didn't Mexico open up to it's most important link the US with an open skies agreement? I find it amusing your call given all Mexico has done is prevent a 5th freedom carrier to come in when another airline is interested. Emirates gets enough subsidies of its own. Besides, AM seem to have done pretty good despite all the competition - from my understanding, only consistently profitable airline in Mexico.

Saludos,
Alex

LatinPlane · Fri May 11, 2018 1:41 am

dcajet wrote:
LatinPlane wrote:
In effect, as expected, EK was denied 5th freedom rights from BCN to MEX with AM's resumption of service to BCN.

Spanish only:

http://noticaribe.com.mx/2018/05/09/el-vuelo-mexico-dubai-se-estanca-por-boicot-de-aeromexico/

While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier. Cancun tourism authorities are displeased as they had hoped to convince EK to start service to CUN once MEX had proven itself for EK. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Did Cristina Kirchner move to Mexico and started working at the Ministry of Aviation (or some similar dept.?)

Not good.

No, but the status quo for AM may not be the reality for too long. If the the left-wing presidential candidate Manuel Lopez Obrador wins in Mexico this year, he is certainly not going to do AM any favors. He tends to hold grudges and AM recently sent out a letter to its employees to vote with a level head and not with an impulsive state of mind. He argues that the new airport is nothing but a waste of money and a corruption scandal and his followers are just loving it. If he wins he'll staff Mexico's Secretariat of Tourism and Communications with people who do not have any sentiment for AM as a flag carrier.

I have my doubts about BCN working for AM. Even AR with a large Argentine immigrant community in the eastern part of Spain, cannot make it work. It's mostly a low yielding destination. AR's president, in a recent conference, stated that BCN was the route that lost the most money for the airline even before Level arrived on the scene and thus the only option was to let it go. AM has also experienced this in the past. AM had no problem filling the plane with load factors in the mid-80s percentile, but business passengers from Spain to Latin America go to/from Madrid.

In the same conference AR's president said that his company looks up to AM for being a flag carrier that is profitable and tries to model itself to that standard as far as how a national flag carrier should be run. While AM is average in some aspects, it has a great business strategy and is now a force to be reckoned with. For example, this year AM is now flying more passengers than LATAM on the MEX-SCL route. In the 20+ years that these two have competed, this was never the case and LAN was always the dominant carrier on the route - not anymore. Same thing with BA on the LHR-MEX route where AM has forced BA to retreat. About the only market where AM is overpowered is to PTY, but who can compete with Copa's hub of the Americas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z2A14fRPsE

For one, I don't feel sorry for EK. Great company and great business model from a big picture perspective, but once they arrive there is no level playing field. They were granted 5th freedom rights from GVA to MEX when they originally requested Zurich and they declined. They could have landed at MEX already if they really wanted. Turkish will probably land at MEX sooner.

Nothing to do with this, but I hire pilots and cabin crews for a living and just this week I hired an ex-FA from EK that returned home after her 2 year contract was up. People just don't want to go work in the sand dunes anymore. The stories of them parking planes at Dubai World are not unreal.

abrelosojos · Fri May 11, 2018 1:51 am

LatinPlane wrote:
No, but the status quo for AM may not be the reality for too long. If the the left-wing presidential candidate Manuel Lopez Obrador wins in Mexico this year, he is certainly not going to do AM any favors. He tends to hold grudges and AM recently sent out a letter to its employees to vote with a level head and not with an impulsive state of mind. He argues that the new airport is nothing but a waste of money and a corruption scandal and his followers are just loving it. If he wins he'll staff Mexico's Secretariat of Tourism and Communications with people who do not have any sentiment for AM as a flag carrier.

I have my doubts about BCN working for AM. Even AR with a large Argentine immigrant community in the eastern part of Spain, cannot make it work. It's mostly a low yielding destination. AR's president, in a recent conference, stated that BCN was the route that lost the most money for the airline even before Level arrived on the scene and thus the only option was to let it go. AM has also experienced this in the past. AM had no problem filling the plane with load factors in the mid-80s percentile, but business passengers from Spain to Latin America go to/from Madrid.

And by the way, in the same conference AR's president said that his company looks up to AM for being a flag carrier that is profitable and tries to model itself to that standard as far as how a national flag carrier should be run. While AM is average in some aspects, it has a great business strategy and is now a force to be reckoned with. For example, this year AM is now flying more passengers than LATAM on the MEX-SCL route. In the 20+ years that these two have competed, this was never the case and LAN was always the dominant carrier on the route - not anymore. Same thing with BA on the LHR-MEX route where AM has forced BA to retreat. About the only market where AM is overpowered is to PTY, but who can compete with Copa's hub of the Americas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z2A14fRPsE

For one, I don't feel sorry for EK. Great company and great business model from a big picture perspective, but once they arrive there is no level playing field. They were granted 5th freedom rights from GVA to MEX when they originally requested Zurich and they declined. They could have landed at MEX already if they really wanted. Turkish will probably land at MEX sooner.

Nothing to do with this, but I hire pilots and cabin crews for a living and just this week I hired an ex-FA from EK that returned home after her 2 year contract was up. People just don't want to go work in the sand dunes anymore. The stories of them parking planes at Dubai World are not unreal.

= Really well written and balanced and I agree with you. I am not convinced BCN would work for them as well, but the new team at AM seems to be very good at making changes quickly when something does not work. I was surprised that YYC and ONT came and went so fast. That is a good thing that they don't seem to be bogged down by emotions, but by profit drivers. I was more complimenting AM for the fact that they moved so fast on BCN and I am sure that if numbers do not add up, BCN will be shown the boot. It really is also interesting to see that anything they deem not in the core, they leave. This is the mark of a well run airline and the profit numbers in Mexico say that story.

I was at a conference in Europe where their SVP of Global Sales was saying that they have the best management team - CCO from Qatar/KLM, Marketing Head some hotshot Mexican who has won Cannes awards, Ancillary Head from Ryanair, Revenue Head from Delta, and Planning and Strategy Heads from Qatar/Delta/Air Asia/West Jet.

Let's see if BCN sticks, but I agree 100% that AM is a force to reckon with. As for PTY, it is an unfair comparison. An airline that colludes with the airport and the government and helped by the sea level runway and geography. Honestly, if Latin countries had the ****nes, they would just block CM and see how the airline retreated to it's local market.

Saludos,
Alex

Gbass21 · Fri May 11, 2018 2:48 am

Can an A380 make DXB-MEX-DXB? I think it can, EK flies it to AKL which is a longer flight and maybe with some little tweaks, the A380 can take off at maximum fuel from MEX, especially at night. I think that a 3x weekly flight with an A380 can be completely doable.

flyingqueen · Fri May 11, 2018 4:53 am

I agree with people who comment Aeromexico is a bold airline and probably the most changed in the world. Look at their new TV commercial. Can you imagine a Mexican airline having such a bold commercial even 5 years ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0nXsdOvW6A

kiramakora · Fri May 11, 2018 1:41 pm

flyingqueen wrote:
I agree with people who comment Aeromexico is a bold airline and probably the most changed in the world. Look at their new TV commercial. Can you imagine a Mexican airline having such a bold commercial even 5 years ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0nXsdOvW6A

Wow. That is a cool commercial.

jmmadrid · Fri May 11, 2018 2:11 pm

That is one great commercial. I hope more companies (not just airlines) follow with a similar approach.

dcajet · Fri May 11, 2018 2:46 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Did Cristina Kirchner move to Mexico and started working at the Ministry of Aviation (or some similar dept.?)

Not good.

= Man, here we go again with your anti-Mexico rant? Didn't Mexico open up to it's most important link the US with an open skies agreement? I find it amusing your call given all Mexico has done is prevent a 5th freedom carrier to come in when another airline is interested. Emirates gets enough subsidies of its own. Besides, AM seem to have done pretty good despite all the competition - from my understanding, only consistently profitable airline in Mexico.

Saludos,
Alex

What is anti Mexico about my comment exactly? Anti Mexico, at the end of the day, is preventing more competition that ultimately would benefit the Mexican traveler and the Mexican economy. Their loss and a world class city like Mexico City will end up with no direct link to Dubai.

I could turn the tables around and ask you why exactly do you get a bee in your bonnet when someone may express an opinion detrimental to Aeromexico? You have been consistently singing the praises of AM on this board for some time now, including calling it the best airline in Latin America. Which is fine. Just that some others may not agree.

dcajet · Fri May 11, 2018 3:05 pm

LatinPlane wrote:
No, but the status quo for AM may not be the reality for too long. If the the left-wing presidential candidate Manuel Lopez Obrador wins in Mexico this year, he is certainly not going to do AM any favors. He tends to hold grudges and AM recently sent out a letter to its employees to vote with a level head and not with an impulsive state of mind. He argues that the new airport is nothing but a waste of money and a corruption scandal and his followers are just loving it. If he wins he'll staff Mexico's Secretariat of Tourism and Communications with people who do not have any sentiment for AM as a flag carrier.

I have my doubts about BCN working for AM. Even AR with a large Argentine immigrant community in the eastern part of Spain, cannot make it work. It's mostly a low yielding destination. AR's president, in a recent conference, stated that BCN was the route that lost the most money for the airline even before Level arrived on the scene and thus the only option was to let it go. AM has also experienced this in the past. AM had no problem filling the plane with load factors in the mid-80s percentile, but business passengers from Spain to Latin America go to/from Madrid.

In the same conference AR's president said that his company looks up to AM for being a flag carrier that is profitable and tries to model itself to that standard as far as how a national flag carrier should be run. While AM is average in some aspects, it has a great business strategy and is now a force to be reckoned with. For example, this year AM is now flying more passengers than LATAM on the MEX-SCL route. In the 20+ years that these two have competed, this was never the case and LAN was always the dominant carrier on the route - not anymore. Same thing with BA on the LHR-MEX route where AM has forced BA to retreat. About the only market where AM is overpowered is to PTY, but who can compete with Copa's hub of the Americas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z2A14fRPsE

For one, I don't feel sorry for EK. Great company and great business model from a big picture perspective, but once they arrive there is no level playing field. They were granted 5th freedom rights from GVA to MEX when they originally requested Zurich and they declined. They could have landed at MEX already if they really wanted. Turkish will probably land at MEX sooner.

Nothing to do with this, but I hire pilots and cabin crews for a living and just this week I hired an ex-FA from EK that returned home after her 2 year contract was up. People just don't want to go work in the sand dunes anymore. The stories of them parking planes at Dubai World are not unreal.

For the sake of Mexico, not just AM, I hope voters stay clear of demagogues and populism.

Barcelona has never been a high yielding destination; and it has now become low cost central. The current Catalunyan crisis has done the region no favors either and it will be years before Barcelona can begin to look somewhat attractive to business over Madrid. The harm done by the independence movement has a long tail. I hope AM can make it work; AV seems to be doing fine - or perhaps it has a higher tolerance for losses than the newly energized AR? If there was any good money to be made flying long haul out of BCN Iberia would have done it long time ago.

I hear you about Emirates. I am of the opinion that its arrival at any airport ultimately benefits the traveler and as such, they get my support. The whole subsidies story is for the most part, kettles calling the pots black, with some honorable exceptions.

And yes, living in the UAE is not for everyone and on top of that, the semi-nomadic lifestyle that a crew member career oftentimes entails takes its toll on folks. To your point: was told that not a insignificant number of Argentinian nationals flying for the ME3 have been applying (and getting hired) at Flybondi's COR and EPA bases and some others are being interviewed F2F this coming week @ Buenos Aires for the 2018 class for American's EZE base. People seem to prefer living at their home country over flying and layovers at a global scale.

EddieDude · Fri May 11, 2018 4:06 pm

Tailwinds13 wrote:
Beat Level to the punch! Congrats to AM for returning to BCN. Another nice wide body to admire there. I wonder what’s next on the docket for European expansion for them.

In my humble opinion, the next step in Europe will be the return of MTY-MAD with a 788. Perhaps GDL-MTY-MAD. Or perhaps there will only be a revenue repositioning flight from MEX to MTY and back.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
All of it so far appears to be to Spain or within the large TATL JV. I’d look to Asia-Pacific...might making one of the Asia destinations daily be in the offing? What about serving PEK, 3x weekly? They can offer TPAC without needing US or Canadian customs.

AM was considering PEK. HU moved faster. Who knows if they will wait for Daxing to open.

abrelosojos wrote:
I do not believe AM is part of the TATL JV.

It is not.

LatinPlane wrote:
MAD increase comes at the price of CDG staying at only daily service. Previously plan was to increase CDG to almost double daily.

Oh wow! Maybe AM needs more Dreamliners.

jfk777 wrote:
lying to Barcelona sounds like a great thing but it shouldn't come at the price of cancelling existing flights to other cities

No flight was cancelled. Simply additional frequencies to CDG did not materialize.

Jojandro27 wrote:
Hopefully they have Frankfurt in the works. It’s probably their biggest whole in their Euro network.
Besides that, I think Milan would be a good option, since Rome is already being served by Alitalia.

I think Germany is a difficult market for a non-Star Alliance carrier. AM is just not going to be able to compete with LH. I see LH launching additional FRA-MEX flights just to preserve its dominance if AM would attempt to land at FRA.

ghost77 wrote:
I just double checked, the 18th B787 will be here by June of 2019. The 19th by late 2019, the 20th in 2020 and 21st in 2021

21? The original orders were for nine -8s and ten -9s for a total of 19. When were these two additional aircraft ordered? Leases? -9s?

LatinPlane wrote:
While Catalan authorities cleared the way for EK to start service, on the other side of the pond, Mexican authorities have officially informed EK that it does not grant 5th freedom rights as the route will now be covered by a local carrier.

Can someone provide the bilateral agreement? I recall the same granted automatic 5th freedom rights via certain European airports. Perhaps it is not automatic? Perhaps BCN was not one of those airports?

LatinPlane wrote:
For example, this year AM is now flying more passengers than LATAM on the MEX-SCL route. In the 20+ years that these two have competed, this was never the case and LAN was always the dominant carrier on the route - not anymore.

That is very remarkable. Seems Latam has lost some of its groove???

Gbass21 wrote:
Can an A380 make DXB-MEX-DXB? I think it can, EK flies it to AKL which is a longer flight and maybe with some little tweaks, the A380 can take off at maximum fuel from MEX, especially at night. I think that a 3x weekly flight with an A380 can be completely doable.

Nope. EY at some point studied whether AUH-MEX-AUH was feasible on the A340-500 and the answer was no. I wonder how much the 77L would be penalized. Maybe this is a task for the A359ULR or the 778???

abrelosojos · Sat May 12, 2018 3:11 pm

dcajet wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Did Cristina Kirchner move to Mexico and started working at the Ministry of Aviation (or some similar dept.?)

Not good.

= Man, here we go again with your anti-Mexico rant? Didn't Mexico open up to it's most important link the US with an open skies agreement? I find it amusing your call given all Mexico has done is prevent a 5th freedom carrier to come in when another airline is interested. Emirates gets enough subsidies of its own. Besides, AM seem to have done pretty good despite all the competition - from my understanding, only consistently profitable airline in Mexico.

Saludos,
Alex

What is anti Mexico about my comment exactly? Anti Mexico, at the end of the day, is preventing more competition that ultimately would benefit the Mexican traveler and the Mexican economy. Their loss and a world class city like Mexico City will end up with no direct link to Dubai.

I could turn the tables around and ask you why exactly do you get a bee in your bonnet when someone may express an opinion detrimental to Aeromexico? You have been consistently singing the praises of AM on this board for some time now, including calling it the best airline in Latin America. Which is fine. Just that some others may not agree.

= I only make it a point to comment on your anti-AM and anti-Mexico rants scattered around the forum. I have been here long enough and people know me and recognize that I have been equally critical of Mexico and AM where it warrants. Objectivity is a lost art.

Saludos,
Alex

abrelosojos · Sat May 12, 2018 3:13 pm

flyingqueen wrote:
I agree with people who comment Aeromexico is a bold airline and probably the most changed in the world. Look at their new TV commercial. Can you imagine a Mexican airline having such a bold commercial even 5 years ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0nXsdOvW6A

= Great commercial! I am surprised they got away with it given how conservative the country can be.

Saludos,
Alex

santi319 · Sat May 12, 2018 10:24 pm

AeroMexico is simply amazing. So proud of them being my hometown airline.

dcajet · Wed May 16, 2018 11:39 pm

According to news coming out of Mexico, AM will not resume flying to BCN as the government of Mexico has approved 5th freedom rights for Emirates on the BCN-MEX route. Temper tantrum?

https://a21.com.mx/aerolineas/2018/05/1 ... -barcelona

abrelosojos · Thu May 17, 2018 1:38 am

dcajet wrote:
According to news coming out of Mexico, AM will not resume flying to BCN as the government of Mexico has approved 5th freedom rights for Emirates on the BCN-MEX route. Temper tantrum?

https://a21.com.mx/aerolineas/2018/05/1 ... -barcelona

= Here we go again, anti-AM and anti-MX rant

. Or, you can see AM as being on top of their game, and immediately being able to respond to a market condition. I think they have made a strong point using other NAFTA countries being the same way.

Saludos,
Alex

kiramakora · Thu May 17, 2018 1:49 am

Sad how corrupt Mexican officials are. No wonder the ruling party is losing all votes.

dcajet · Thu May 17, 2018 2:04 am

abrelosojos wrote:
dcajet wrote:
According to news coming out of Mexico, AM will not resume flying to BCN as the government of Mexico has approved 5th freedom rights for Emirates on the BCN-MEX route. Temper tantrum?

https://a21.com.mx/aerolineas/2018/05/1 ... -barcelona

= Here we go again, anti-AM and anti-MX rant . Or, you can see AM as being on top of their game, and immediately being able to respond to a market condition. I think they have made a strong point using other NAFTA countries being the same way.

Saludos,
Alex

Listen Alex, there is nothing anti Mexico there; Anti MX would be me making disparaging comments about Mexico as a country and its people So cut it out. And lets leave it there, shall we?

I don't see an airline at the top of its game. I see an airline aping what another airline out of ATL would have done. Funny isn't it? They can't deal with certain competition and they throw a berrinche.

Or maybe they have realized that flying to BCN is not a gold mine after all (it's leisure & low cost central) and the EK entry in the market gives them an elegant way out. They should increase flying to MAD where the corporate high yielding market is, IMO.

usdcaguy · Thu May 17, 2018 2:30 am

What took them so long? Barcelona has been a hot market for at least the past 20 years. Kudos to them, though, for spreading their wings. They at least have a government that supports them and has their back. Much better for the employees of AM.

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