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LTC8K6
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:31 pm

ojjunior wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:


Not even a single drop of blood for my eyes...
Sorry apocalypse announcers, try again later...


Look on the side of the plane, trailing back from the window...
I may be imagining the blood stain...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbCuLshWkAASDNq.jpg

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/ ... ge-169.jpg
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:35 pm

I'm certainly no expert or even a novice on such matters, but the photo's seem to indicate that the fan stayed in place on the aircraft while the front part of the engine cowling did not. Most of the time when I think of an uncontained failure, I picture a fairly intact front cowling with holes punched in it - most holes or other damage would be further back near the compression or combustion section. Does anyone have any idea's as to how this front cowling suffered all this damage without the fan having been severely damaged - it appears intact except for one blade. I appreciate all knowledgeable responses from you guys on this. I kind of picture the type of failure you had on the Qantas A-380 when I think of something like this. Did the manged middle part of the engine occur first and then the front cowling tore away?
Last edited by ILNFlyer on Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LTC8K6
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:35 pm

heyjoojoo wrote:
D L X wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
Really? “I just saw a human being fly out of a plane 40,000 feet above”? Hardly accurate.

Multiple reports say that the deceased woman was sucked out the window to her waist. Are you really saying that saying she flew out the window is inaccurate?

Or, are you criticizing the 40,000 feet part? We all know the passengers are not altimeters, so what exact harm are you decrying?

Looks like this woman was bullied into taking down her post by hypercritical and emotional posters.


social media emotions generally offer nothing in a way of intellectual discourse.

Was the "missing fan blade" recovered?

And is this the actual window where the victim was seated? How in the world did they clean it up so well. No hint of any bio material or anything...

https://twitter.com/SweeneyABC/status/9 ... 3868005376


Well, there was a strong suction effect, and she might have had her head out the window for a bit.

Do you see a blood stain on the plane behind the window?

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/ ... ge-169.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbCuLshWkAASDNq.jpg
 
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Moose135
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:47 pm

indcwby wrote:
Am I wrong for not liking the reports in the media/social media that 'a pilot' helped saved the lives of flight WN 1380. That pilot. the Captain was former NAVY pilot and is a woman. But no mention of the FO and the Cabin Crew? Maybe I'm just being crabby.

No, it's just like everyone knows that Sully saved US1549 single-handedly...
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
flybucky
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:49 pm

fly4ever78 wrote:
He also stated several times that instead of putting the mask on he pulled out his laptop in an effort to purchase inflight internet "as the plane was going down". I guess I just can't relate to that mind set in general.


ok, well, that is not too wise. I had assumed that he only did that after the plane descended to comfortable breathing altitude and the situation was stable.
 
JesseCasserly
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:01 pm

jetero wrote:
KBUF wrote:
jetero wrote:

Emergency landing was at ABQ.

Aircraft name was ... Barbara.


And eerily, both flights had a final destination of SFO and a final stopover at LAS.


I hadn’t made that connection yet.

Prior failure MSY-MCO, emergency landing PNS. Three airports familiar to NA.

And now I’m remembering DL disaster was at PNS.

Sorry ... way too superstitious.



Oh my God. The DC-10 incident the guy was sitting in 17H. In this incident the lady was in 17A. How can the row numbers be the same too?!?! This is getting crazy weird!!!
 
smokeybandit
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:01 pm

Moose135 wrote:
indcwby wrote:
Am I wrong for not liking the reports in the media/social media that 'a pilot' helped saved the lives of flight WN 1380. That pilot. the Captain was former NAVY pilot and is a woman. But no mention of the FO and the Cabin Crew? Maybe I'm just being crabby.

No, it's just like everyone knows that Sully saved US1549 single-handedly...


I'd argue that the flight attendants had a much more difficult job than the pilots. Pilots knew exactly what they had to do, and for most of the incident, the plane wasn't in any danger and they have practiced scenarios like that.

Flight attendants dealing with a fatally injured passenger and 140-some other passengers freaking out on various levels. You really can't practice for that.
 
ubeema
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:04 pm

NTSB live update:
Blown Southwest Jet Engine Showed 'Metal Fatigue': NTSB http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Blown- ... 96933.html
 
smokeybandit
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:07 pm

Sounds like the fan blade broke in two pieces. I don't know if that's been discussed yet. The crack was on the inside of the blade, and wouldn't have been seen from a visual inspection
 
smokeybandit
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:08 pm

I love reporters trying to bait an NTSB spokesman into saying the entire 737 fleet is at risk. The spokesman would have none of it.

Now a reporter trying to make it a concern of every engine.

"Would you still fly a 737 home?"

Now the poor guy is getting annoyed.
 
flybucky
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:33 pm

Statements from the NTSB update Wed Apr 18, 2018 afternoon

41 degree left roll for a few seconds.
Flaps 5 instead of 30 or 40.
Touchdown speed 165 knots / 190 mph. Normal is around 135 knots.
22 minutes from incident to touchdown.

Residents are finding additional pieces of engine cowling.

Pilot and flight attendant interviews being conducted.

Documenting window frame. Row 14. Found no acrylic window pieces inside the airplane. Removed the plastic sidewall to inspect the fuselage there.

Received good information, photos, videos from passengers. Send to [email protected]

This is the last on-scene press briefing.

Thanks to American Airlines for use of their hangar.

Questions:

Where did the fan blade separate? Separated in 2 places. Fatigue fracture at the hub. Also secondary fracture further up the blade. Crack was on the interior of the fan blade, not visible from the exterior.

Cause of death? No official statement from NTSB. Leave up to medical examiner.

Why did window break? Don't know.
 
flybucky
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:34 pm

Photos of engine cowling pieces that were found on the ground:

https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/statu ... 8401567746
 
BobbyPSP
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:46 pm

D L X wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
D L X wrote:
Never mind that it looks like her account is pretty god damn accurate so far.

Really? “I just saw a human being fly out of a plane 40,000 feet above”? Hardly accurate.

Multiple reports say that the deceased woman was sucked out the window to her waist. Are you really saying that saying she flew out the window is inaccurate?

Or, are you criticizing the 40,000 feet part? We all know the passengers are not altimeters, so what exact harm are you decrying?

Looks like this woman was bullied into taking down her post by hypercritical and emotional posters.



Agree. With what we know now, theory, what she thought was a person flying by was part of the cowling immediately after it hit the window followed by the blood along the outside window. When you think how fast things happened, folks relaxing etc, it's easier to see how a 'lay person' could interpret things. Plus in this day an age, an 'explosion' along with loss of cabin pressure would strike fear in all of us until we had a sense the aircraft was under control.

Didn't help that the guy who went on FB live was so far off base: re plane was crashing. Didn't realize landing was on a runway etc. I know some said they couldn't hear announcements, but isn' that why they have bullhorns? Surely the FA's did further emergency briefings?
 
ikramerica
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm

Would be very sad/concerning if the window failure was a result of a different fatigue/cracking issue that was only accelerated by the explosion. Similar to an earthquake causing buildings or roads with other unseen problems to fail, or a plane hitting a tall building exposing a fatal design flaw leading to complete catastrophic collapse...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ikramerica
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:36 pm

BobbyPSP wrote:
D L X wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
Really? “I just saw a human being fly out of a plane 40,000 feet above”? Hardly accurate.

Multiple reports say that the deceased woman was sucked out the window to her waist. Are you really saying that saying she flew out the window is inaccurate?

Or, are you criticizing the 40,000 feet part? We all know the passengers are not altimeters, so what exact harm are you decrying?

Looks like this woman was bullied into taking down her post by hypercritical and emotional posters.



Agree. With what we know now, theory, what she thought was a person flying by was part of the cowling immediately after it hit the window followed by the blood along the outside window. When you think how fast things happened, folks relaxing etc, it's easier to see how a 'lay person' could interpret things. Plus in this day an age, an 'explosion' along with loss of cabin pressure would strike fear in all of us until we had a sense the aircraft was under control.

Didn't help that the guy who went on FB live was so far off base: re plane was crashing. Didn't realize landing was on a runway etc. I know some said they couldn't hear announcements, but isn' that why they have bullhorns? Surely the FA's did further emergency briefings?

There was an uncommanded roll and then after recovery a fast descent to 10000 but with 22 minutes from incident to landing (at high speed but not something you’d notice) it’s kind of unvelievable that the guy wouldn’t know/have been told they were landing. Maybe the noise was so deafening he couldn’t process what was happening.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ikramerica
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:38 pm

stratclub wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The pilots aren't going to say anything; I wonder if it would be helpful for the f/as to be trained perhaps to announce something about the rapid descent. There may be a million reasons not to have them do this, but there are at least a few reasons that it would be helpful.

Because they were in the middle of a dire emergency maybe? Open letter to the Flight Crew: "If you are in the middle of an emergency with the possibility of injury, death or loss of the aircraft, as a passenger, you have my permission to devote 100% of your efforts and resources to that emergency.

Besides that, with an explosive decompression no one would have heard an announcement because of the noise. The cabin crew was very busy as well with ensuring everyone donned there Oxygen masks and other tasks they are trained to do in an emergency.

Well, they dropped the ball in making sure everyone had them on RIGHT, but maybe there wasn’t time?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
stratclub
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:38 pm

wjcandee wrote:
The pilots aren't going to say anything; I wonder if it would be helpful for the f/as to be trained perhaps to announce something about the rapid descent. There may be a million reasons not to have them do this, but there are at least a few reasons that it would be helpful.

Because they were in the middle of a dire emergency maybe? Open letter to the Flight Crew: "If you are in the middle of an emergency with the possibility of injury, death or loss of the aircraft, as a passenger, you have my permission to devote 100% of your efforts and resources to that emergency.

Besides that, with an explosive decompression no one would have heard an announcement because of the noise. The cabin crew was very busy as well with ensuring everyone donned there Oxygen masks and other tasks they are trained to do in an emergency.
 
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litz
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:52 pm

You can plainly hear on the in-cabin videos that the noise level was huge. Think about it ... the slowest they were going was 190mph at landing.

That's faster winds than a Category 5 hurricane.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:57 pm

stratclub wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The pilots aren't going to say anything; I wonder if it would be helpful for the f/as to be trained perhaps to announce something about the rapid descent. There may be a million reasons not to have them do this, but there are at least a few reasons that it would be helpful.

Because they were in the middle of a dire emergency maybe? Open letter to the Flight Crew: "If you are in the middle of an emergency with the possibility of injury, death or loss of the aircraft, as a passenger, you have my permission to devote 100% of your efforts and resources to that emergency.

Besides that, with an explosive decompression no one would have heard an announcement because of the noise. The cabin crew was very busy as well with ensuring everyone donned there Oxygen masks and other tasks they are trained to do in an emergency.

I would add stratclub that flying at 160knts+ with a missing window is LOUD.

I would further add, in an emergency, there just isn't time for announcements. That is what that supper boring preflight video is for with a f/a in the isle with the life vest.

I'm trained at a professional level to evacuate aircraft (prototypes). I know where the ropes are hidden, how to open doors and deploy slides... and yet I still pay attention to the briefings!
Sigh... /rantoff

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
THS214
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:02 pm

stratclub wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The pilots aren't going to say anything; I wonder if it would be helpful for the f/as to be trained perhaps to announce something about the rapid descent. There may be a million reasons not to have them do this, but there are at least a few reasons that it would be helpful.

Because they were in the middle of a dire emergency maybe? Open letter to the Flight Crew: "If you are in the middle of an emergency with the possibility of injury, death or loss of the aircraft, as a passenger, you have my permission to devote 100% of your efforts and resources to that emergency.

Besides that, with an explosive decompression no one would have heard an announcement because of the noise. The cabin crew was very busy as well with ensuring everyone donned there Oxygen masks and other tasks they are trained to do in an emergency.


Why not just say "the airspace is all yours."
 
XBOOR
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:14 pm

Someone knows if the subject engine was recently overhauled, if yes. Where and when?
Regards

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 
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litz
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:16 pm

THS214 wrote:
stratclub wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The pilots aren't going to say anything; I wonder if it would be helpful for the f/as to be trained perhaps to announce something about the rapid descent. There may be a million reasons not to have them do this, but there are at least a few reasons that it would be helpful.

Because they were in the middle of a dire emergency maybe? Open letter to the Flight Crew: "If you are in the middle of an emergency with the possibility of injury, death or loss of the aircraft, as a passenger, you have my permission to devote 100% of your efforts and resources to that emergency.

Besides that, with an explosive decompression no one would have heard an announcement because of the noise. The cabin crew was very busy as well with ensuring everyone donned there Oxygen masks and other tasks they are trained to do in an emergency.


Why not just say "the airspace is all yours."


Because it really wasn't ... there were airplanes all over the place around the stricken aircraft.

The controller basically told them do what you need to and I'll keep the traffic out of your way.

That's way long from empty airspace.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:18 pm

THS214 wrote:
stratclub wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The pilots aren't going to say anything; I wonder if it would be helpful for the f/as to be trained perhaps to announce something about the rapid descent. There may be a million reasons not to have them do this, but there are at least a few reasons that it would be helpful.

Because they were in the middle of a dire emergency maybe? Open letter to the Flight Crew: "If you are in the middle of an emergency with the possibility of injury, death or loss of the aircraft, as a passenger, you have my permission to devote 100% of your efforts and resources to that emergency.

Besides that, with an explosive decompression no one would have heard an announcement because of the noise. The cabin crew was very busy as well with ensuring everyone donned there Oxygen masks and other tasks they are trained to do in an emergency.


Why not just say "the airspace is all yours."

Impossible. You cannot just clear airspace with so many aircraft approaching a major airport.
Pilots need to convey information on the ground. The airport is scrambling to clear a runway and fire fighting zone. ATC is trying to get aircraft on the ground as eventually they will run out of fuel and create another emergency. Getting ground aircraft airborne might clear more safe space on the ground. There are processes to clear enough safe space for the distressed flight while still working to land a majority of the pattern's aircraft. You do realize PHL is a multi-runway airport? You do realize other aircraft must be diverted into approved (safe) travel lanes? One aircraft cannot be given the whole airspace. That would have disrupted the entire East Coast economy and done nothing to get the plane on the ground. Aircraft must use set "offramps" to get out of the approach or other flight patterns.

That is the equivalent of saying one ambulance gets the whole 405 freeway cleared with cars just driving over the landscaping to get off the road. Clearing a freeway is simpler than clearing airspace as aircraft cannot stop except on the ground. ;) Aircraft must be put into patterns to circle out of the way while the pattern continues to accept new arriving aircraft. And yea, its a racetrack, not a circle... I simplified.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
flybucky
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:19 pm

"Philadelphia’s medical examiner says that a woman killed when she was partially blown out of a Southwest Airlines plane died of blunt impact trauma to her head, neck and torso."

So not asphyxiation. Hopefully she was knocked unconscious immediately and didn't suffer at all. :(

"Sumwalt says that the woman was wearing a seatbelt and sitting next to the window."

https://apnews.com/5dc6f818204c4c299eef8764e826e0ba
 
heyjoojoo
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:28 pm

litz wrote:
THS214 wrote:
stratclub wrote:
Because they were in the middle of a dire emergency maybe? Open letter to the Flight Crew: "If you are in the middle of an emergency with the possibility of injury, death or loss of the aircraft, as a passenger, you have my permission to devote 100% of your efforts and resources to that emergency.

Besides that, with an explosive decompression no one would have heard an announcement because of the noise. The cabin crew was very busy as well with ensuring everyone donned there Oxygen masks and other tasks they are trained to do in an emergency.


Why not just say "the airspace is all yours."


Because it really wasn't ... there were airplanes all over the place around the stricken aircraft.

The controller basically told them do what you need to and I'll keep the traffic out of your way.

That's way long from empty airspace.


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Kinda figured that there was so much traffic out there. After she declared the emergency, it was interesting to hear all the other flights continuing to get their vectors. And there were quite a few.
 
WkndWanderer
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:30 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Moose135 wrote:
indcwby wrote:
Am I wrong for not liking the reports in the media/social media that 'a pilot' helped saved the lives of flight WN 1380. That pilot. the Captain was former NAVY pilot and is a woman. But no mention of the FO and the Cabin Crew? Maybe I'm just being crabby.

No, it's just like everyone knows that Sully saved US1549 single-handedly...


I'd argue that the flight attendants had a much more difficult job than the pilots. Pilots knew exactly what they had to do, and for most of the incident, the plane wasn't in any danger and they have practiced scenarios like that.

Flight attendants dealing with a fatally injured passenger and 140-some other passengers freaking out on various levels. You really can't practice for that.


It's not really different than Sullenberger, Al Haynes, de Crespigny, Finch, etc, one person, sometimes two, tend to become the crewmember of focus in stories of all of these events and it's usually the Captain. The facts that condescending "lady pilot" talk still isn't all that uncommon and this particular Captain had a compelling history even before this incident are certainly going to cause the focus to concentrate on her even more.
 
heyjoojoo
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:31 pm

Is it normal to only lower flaps at 5 on landing following some sort of engine or wing related issue?

Also, did she use reverse thrusters at touchdown?
 
D L X
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:32 pm

ikramerica wrote:
BobbyPSP wrote:
D L X wrote:
Multiple reports say that the deceased woman was sucked out the window to her waist. Are you really saying that saying she flew out the window is inaccurate?

Or, are you criticizing the 40,000 feet part? We all know the passengers are not altimeters, so what exact harm are you decrying?

Looks like this woman was bullied into taking down her post by hypercritical and emotional posters.



Agree. With what we know now, theory, what she thought was a person flying by was part of the cowling immediately after it hit the window followed by the blood along the outside window. When you think how fast things happened, folks relaxing etc, it's easier to see how a 'lay person' could interpret things. Plus in this day an age, an 'explosion' along with loss of cabin pressure would strike fear in all of us until we had a sense the aircraft was under control.

Didn't help that the guy who went on FB live was so far off base: re plane was crashing. Didn't realize landing was on a runway etc. I know some said they couldn't hear announcements, but isn' that why they have bullhorns? Surely the FA's did further emergency briefings?

There was an uncommanded roll and then after recovery a fast descent to 10000 but with 22 minutes from incident to landing (at high speed but not something you’d notice) it’s kind of unvelievable that the guy wouldn’t know/have been told they were landing. Maybe the noise was so deafening he couldn’t process what was happening.


He did say on CNN that the noise was so loud that he didn't have a chance at hearing any P/A announcement.
 
D L X
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:36 pm

flybucky wrote:
"Philadelphia’s medical examiner says that a woman killed when she was partially blown out of a Southwest Airlines plane died of blunt impact trauma to her head, neck and torso."

So not asphyxiation. Hopefully she was knocked unconscious immediately and didn't suffer at all. :(

"Sumwalt says that the woman was wearing a seatbelt and sitting next to the window."

https://apnews.com/5dc6f818204c4c299eef8764e826e0ba


Think about the stupid weathermen that go on camera during hurricanes to show how they get knocked around by 100mph winds. Now imagine 300mph wind. This poor woman was probably slammed against the side of the fuselage by the wind, and killed instantly. :(
 
VeeCee
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:41 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Moose135 wrote:
indcwby wrote:
Am I wrong for not liking the reports in the media/social media that 'a pilot' helped saved the lives of flight WN 1380. That pilot. the Captain was former NAVY pilot and is a woman. But no mention of the FO and the Cabin Crew? Maybe I'm just being crabby.

No, it's just like everyone knows that Sully saved US1549 single-handedly...


I'd argue that the flight attendants had a much more difficult job than the pilots. Pilots knew exactly what they had to do, and for most of the incident, the plane wasn't in any danger and they have practiced scenarios like that.

Flight attendants dealing with a fatally injured passenger and 140-some other passengers freaking out on various levels. You really can't practice for that.


Flight Attendants ABSOLUTELY train and practice for in flight medical emergencies, fatalities and accidents/incidents.
 
stratclub
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:47 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Looking at carefully placed statements on this thread, this one will be swept under the "contained" rug. Once it fits into contained definition whole lot of wiggle room for the airline with the investigation.

If someone MRO offers BOGO free engine overhaul deal with a 15-day turnaround, bean counters should just say no.


Southwest ran afoul of the FAA a few years ago for not complying with proper repairs on the skin lap joints of the classics. They were hit with a hefty 12 million dollar fine back then. If this goes down the same path in the investigation Southwest will have a lot of explaining to do about their maintenance. Two events for them in close proximity is a trend.


Is there any 121 carrier who has not been fined by FAA for a maintenance issue at some point? Perhaps the investigation will point to WN maintenance practices and perhaps it will not, but this post seemingly jumps the gun a bit (not that that is a big surprise given your irrational disdain for all things non-UA).

Completely different issue. There are no skin laps in the vicinity of the windows. The window frame forgings and support structure to the best of my knowledge have never had fatigue or corrosion failure issues. From the pics there was no damage or failure to the window frame forging. The failure was because an object knocked the window loose from its mountings from the outside and into the cabin allowing rapid decompression of the aircraft.

Also from the pics, the failure was not contained. If it were contained, it would have been contained by the fan case which had mostly departed the aircraft when the fan disintegrated.
 
77H
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Re: WN emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:48 pm

jco613 wrote:
jco613 wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Holy cow
Image

Lot's of damage to the engine and some to the wing.


Nah, they can still fly!

"For those passengers continuing to Dallas this is your aircraft...stay in your seats so we can get an accurate thru count."

Want to apologize for this joke now that we know the severity of the incident and express my condolences to the family of the dead passenger.


Mighty big of you to come back and apologize. A very rare thing to see on the internet these days. Hat off to you.

77H
 
alasizon
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:49 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I would add stratclub that flying at 160knts+ with a missing window is LOUD.


As someone who has been inside of an aircraft when it lost a window, I can tell you that its the loudest wind you've ever heard and mine was only at about 115 knots. It was near impossible to hear my co-pilot until we were down around the 80 knot mark.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
FlyHappy
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:55 pm

VeeCee wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:
Moose135 wrote:
No, it's just like everyone knows that Sully saved US1549 single-handedly...


I'd argue that the flight attendants had a much more difficult job than the pilots. Pilots knew exactly what they had to do, and for most of the incident, the plane wasn't in any danger and they have practiced scenarios like that.

Flight attendants dealing with a fatally injured passenger and 140-some other passengers freaking out on various levels. You really can't practice for that.


Flight Attendants ABSOLUTELY train and practice for in flight medical emergencies, fatalities and accidents/incidents.


"You really can't practice for that" was meant to convey that the cabin situation was so much more unpredictable and fluid, whereas the cockpit/pilot situation is something that is more or less accurately modeled in simulation on a regular basis (engine failure, aviate, descend, checklists, etc....) .
We all recognize that F/A's train for all these things, but that they actually have a more stressful situation, as it involves 140 untrained, panicked, (some) injured pax. Add in the unknown of a fuselage hole, minimal communications.

F/A's have to improvise under stress in front of terrified audience (not exactly condusive to anyones work). Pilots are behind a door in a much more controlled environment. Both performed well.
Smokeybandit was absolutely tipping his or her hat to the F/A's .
 
SPREE34
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:59 pm

heyjoojoo wrote:
Is it normal to only lower flaps at 5 on landing following some sort of engine or wing related issue?

Also, did she use reverse thrusters at touchdown?


They may have had indications in the cockpit that other flap settings weren't available. Normal is generally 25-30. Tremendous added drag may have called for a higher approach speed as well, thus a reduced flap setting.

The #2 reverser may have been deployed, and some thrust used. That would require rudder and steering inputs to counter the asymmetrical thrust. We'll know in time.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
stratclub
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:05 am

lightsaber wrote:
stratclub wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The pilots aren't going to say anything; I wonder if it would be helpful for the f/as to be trained perhaps to announce something about the rapid descent. There may be a million reasons not to have them do this, but there are at least a few reasons that it would be helpful.

Because they were in the middle of a dire emergency maybe? Open letter to the Flight Crew: "If you are in the middle of an emergency with the possibility of injury, death or loss of the aircraft, as a passenger, you have my permission to devote 100% of your efforts and resources to that emergency.

Besides that, with an explosive decompression no one would have heard an announcement because of the noise. The cabin crew was very busy as well with ensuring everyone donned there Oxygen masks and other tasks they are trained to do in an emergency.

I would add stratclub that flying at 160knts+ with a missing window is LOUD.

I would further add, in an emergency, there just isn't time for announcements. That is what that supper boring preflight video is for with a f/a in the isle with the life vest.

I'm trained at a professional level to evacuate aircraft (prototypes). I know where the ropes are hidden, how to open doors and deploy slides... and yet I still pay attention to the briefings!
Sigh... /rantoff

Lightsaber
I did cover the noise issue, or so I thought..........
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:12 am

The SS Enterprise has reverse thrusters, we mortals have reverse thrust. Probably some reverse thrust, but being assymetric controllability might be an issue.

GF
 
KBUF
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:25 am

FAA to announce an airworthiness directive regarding CFM56-7B fan blade inspections within the next 2 weeks: https://twitter.com/FAANews/status/986760204586012672
 
BobbyPSP
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:28 am

I have a question regarding the ATC recording after landing when the Captain was in communication with ARFF.

He (ARFF) brought up moving to a gate. Captain was adamant not moving and to paraphrase said something to the effect of 'putting the flaps down'. Is this a signal that the aircraft will not be moving or preparing for a possible evacuation ?
 
dragon6172
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:32 am

BobbyPSP wrote:
I have a question regarding the ATC recording after landing when the Captain was in communication with ARFF.

He (ARFF) brought up moving to a gate. Captain was adamant not moving and to paraphrase said something to the effect of 'putting the flaps down'. Is this a signal that the aircraft will not be moving or preparing for a possible evacuation ?

My guess is evacuation, but not certain
Phrogs Phorever
 
RogerMurdock
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:44 am

It was to prepare for the possibility of an evacuation, if conditions deteriorate. The full quote is "We are putting our flaps down, just in case, because we did have some smoke initially up here."
 
smokeybandit
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:03 am

So what happens to the crew after something like this? Obviously they're going to be interviewed a ton by the various groups trying to figure out what happened.

But do they get some sort of admin leave or something to clear their heads of things?
 
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:24 am

It was on the news a couple hours ago that the last time the failed engine was overhauled was in 2012. That means the engine could of been back on the wing of an aircraft for somewhere between five and six years. I do not know when the engine was manufactured and how many parts were only "reconditioned after inspection" when it was last overhauled? Some of the engine parts including blades and vanes could be twelve years or older. Just what is the life expectancy of these parts? There are a lot of questions that need to be answered. The engine is going to be torn down micorscopoly and every shred of paper involving this engines's history from day one is going to be thourghly examined to the smallest degree. There better not be any missing pages. The history of the nacelle is also going to be examined to the date of manufacture and any and all repairs and removals and installation are going to be thoroughly studied for for any potential problems that could have led to this engine's failure. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
CO953
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:36 am

So, to bring it back down to basics: There appears to be only one fan blade missing. Where did it go? Why weren't more fan blades missing? Did the fan blade's departure instigate a direct chain of events beginning from its location and ending with something impacting the fuselage, or an indirect one?
 
Okie
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:54 am

NWAROOSTER wrote:
It was on the news a couple hours ago that the last time the failed engine was overhauled was in 2012

The CFM56-7b is pretty robust. TUI (Thomson) Has put 50,000 hours on a CFM56-7b turbine on wing without a shop visit.
There are only 8,760 hours in a year. So 50,000 hours would be 5.7 years running 24 hours a day or roughly 11 years at 12 hours a day.


Okie
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:09 am

PW100 wrote:
There are about 300 billion birds on this planet. Assuming 3 million would be able to reach FL300+, that equates to 0.001% of the bird population. If then assuming that they be spending less than 10% of their life at these altitudes, the percentage goes further down a full order of magnitude.

I'd say that the qualification "pretty much a non-starter" (which btw does leave a very tiny bit of wiggling room) would be fairly accurate description of the subject in hand.

No disagreement with your first paragraph, though your second one ignores the very nature of fatal aviation accidents in general: they're based on exceptionally improbable events actually happening.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ubeema
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:17 am

Statement of Captain and FO of SW1380:
https://twitter.com/southwestair/status ... 51232?s=21
 
TSS
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:23 am

mtnwest1979 wrote:
Perhaps the cowling area material broke first, thus breaking off the fan blade.... Seeing as how so much of the damage is ahead of where the fan blade resides.
Seems if the blade broke off on its own, the blades adjacent would have been in a lot worse shape IMO.


I was thinking along the same lines with regard to the cowling breaking up, either as a result of or leading to the missing fan blade. My working hypothesis is that the engine cowling split into two or more pieces with one piece skating along the wing's leading edge causing obvious damage to the slats and a different piece hitting the passenger window, cracking the window and causing it to shatter under pressure.

I read that a piece of the engine cowling has been found, but I've not yet seen photos of that.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
boxeebox
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL, 1 fatality

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:38 am

Image
Image
 
dampfnudel
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Re: WN 1380 LGA-DAL emergency landing at PHL

Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:46 am

notaxonrotax wrote:
QXAS wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
You can always count on CNN and other media outlets for a quick laugh when it comes to their obvious lack of knowledge about aviation and the stupid, uninformed comments they often make.

I remember that CNN headline. Never taken them seriously since, for most people it’s political stuff that forces them to lose it for a network, for me it’s this sort of headline in such circumstances.


At least CNN was not wrong.
Yes, it`s pretty low level info; but I bet a lot of people don`t know where the fuel of an aircraft is carried.
Don`t forget, they report to the general public; not to the aviation world only.

CNN gets slammed when they get details wrong, and yet they get slammed if they state the truth; just because it`s too darn obvious to the aviation world.
Yes, I often chuckle with stuff I read and hear in the press with regards to aviation; but this was not a particularly bad example IMHO.
Interesting that you´d abandon a whole network only due to that.
It is my guess that you could catch most press outlets out; when it comes to lower quality articles or bulletins at times.

Fun fact: my 1st solo flight was in a plane that did NOT carry the fuel in the wings.

No Tax On Rotax

I’m not “abandoning” CNN, just giving them some mild criticism. Maybe I’m just too serious for my own good.
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