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BA
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Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:09 am

Lebanon's national carrier, Middle East Airlines (MEA), will make a decision next month on an order for either four Airbus A330-900neo or four Boeing 787-9 aircraft according to this interview between the Lebanese Plane Spotters Facebook group and MEA's CEO Mohammed El-Hout.

https://www.facebook.com/LebanesePlaneS ... 0730900781
https://www.facebook.com/LebanesePlaneS ... 901330364/

LPS: Knowing that MEA maintains a young average fleet age of 6-7 years, will the current fleet be substituted by the new one?
MH: MEA sells or returns any plane that overlaps 13 years of service, regardless of the fact that planes are manufactured to fly for over 20-30 years. All our ODs that are older than 13 years will be sold, and all our T7s older than 13 years old as well will be returned back to the leaser. We are expecting 15 new planes, 11 Airbus A321neo and 4 wide-bodies. Either Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9. Deliveries will start from 2019 until 2021.

LPS: Is MEA leaning more towards the Airbus A330-900neo or the Boeing 787-9?
MH: To be honest the Airbus A330-900neo has an advantage over the Boeing 787-9 as our pilots and cabin crew are used and type rated on such an aircraft. However, the final decision will be taken next month!


I would love to see Boeing win this one, especially since MEA has a past history with Boeing operating 707s and 747-200s, but realistically I see this going to Airbus for the type rating advantage.

MEA currently has an order for 11 Airbus A321neo aircraft which they will start taking delivery of next year. They currently have 18 aircraft total, 13 Airbus A320-200s and 5 Airbus A330-200s as well as 2 Embraer Legacy 500 business jets operated under their VIP charter service, Cedar Executive.

https://www.mea.com.lb/
http://www.cedarexecutive.com/
 
jubguy3
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:23 am

My only wish is that they change their logo :/
 
BA
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:45 am

jubguy3 wrote:
My only wish is that they change their logo :/


They are introducing a new livery next year with the A321neos.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:54 am

Should be an easy win for the 330neo, but nothing is guaranteed. Most of MEA's A330s fly relatively short routes of only a few hours, so the 789's cruise fuel burn advantage won't be so noticeable.
 
Balloonchaser
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:07 am

I’ll be honest here.. I think they are gonna go for Airbus but then get a better offer by Boeing with extra options... The A330NEO is gonna die off with no buyers
 
jfk777
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:25 am

MEA needs seem to be too much for either plane as their longest flight is probably 5 hours. An 787-9 is silly unless they fly ti JFK, Montreal or Asia. AN A321neo may be the best replacement unless they fly lots of Cargo on their A330-200. The new Boring NMA could be a great plane for MEA.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:26 am

Balloonchaser wrote:
I’ll be honest here.. I think they are gonna go for Airbus but then get a better offer by Boeing with extra options... The A330NEO is gonna die off with no buyers

Normally, this order wouldn't interest me. However, this year is facinating. It is a great time to bid the A330NEO vs. 789!

If the A339 thrives, this will be every 789 bid...

Lightsaber
 
DDR
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:32 am

I don’t see an airline from Lebanon ordering American aircraft.
 
BA
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:38 am

Balloonchaser wrote:
I’ll be honest here.. I think they are gonna go for Airbus but then get a better offer by Boeing with extra options...


This in my opinion is the only way this will go to Boeing. We'll see what happens.

Boeing is increasing the 787 production rate from 12 to 14 airplanes per month starting next year and wants to be able to sustain that rate for as long as possible (and possibly go to a higher rate in the future), so it is aggressively trying to market the 787 as much as it can and as you alluded, made some nice wins against the A330neo recently (Hawaiian Airlines and American Airlines).

jfk777 wrote:
MEA needs seem to be too much for either plane as their longest flight is probably 5 hours. An 787-9 is silly unless they fly ti JFK, Montreal or Asia. AN A321neo may be the best replacement unless they fly lots of Cargo on their A330-200. The new Boring NMA could be a great plane for MEA.


MEA is utilizing its existing A330-200's capacity very well (both passenger and cargo) and added the 5th A330 only two years ago after having a four airplane widebody fleet for several years. Unless they buy several more A321neos and increase frequencies, they do currently need the capacity of a widebody on several of their key routes. But you're right, the range capability of the 787-9 will largely not be used, just as it isn't currently used on the A330-200 (except for the occasional government charter to the UN General Assembly in New York).

And I agree, the Boring NMA would be a good plane for MEA. ;)
 
jubguy3
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:02 am

BA wrote:
jubguy3 wrote:
My only wish is that they change their logo :/


They are introducing a new livery next year with the A321neos.


Is it just the livery or will the logo be updated? Their logo looks like it was made in Microsoft paint and pushed around on the internet for a few years before it came back pixelated and stretched out.

If the logo iis being updated, do you have a link to a picture?
 
Ruscoe
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:11 am

jfk777 wrote:
MEA needs seem to be too much for either plane as their longest flight is probably 5 hours. An 787-9 is silly unless they fly ti JFK, Montreal or Asia. AN A321neo may be the best replacement unless they fly lots of Cargo on their A330-200. The new Boring NMA could be a great plane for MEA.


One of the things which is forgotten about the 787 is that it is also a great mid range performer, because of its payload range characteristics at such a light weight.
Certainly agree about the NMA, if they can wait.

Ruscoe
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:24 am

Unless they’re planning to fly regularly to New York or China, I see this as an A339 order. What is the MTOW on their A332s? (Last year, the newest one flew out to JFK from BEY for UN Week.)
 
BA
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:24 am

jubguy3 wrote:
BA wrote:
jubguy3 wrote:
My only wish is that they change their logo :/


They are introducing a new livery next year with the A321neos.


Is it just the livery or will the logo be updated? Their logo looks like it was made in Microsoft paint and pushed around on the internet for a few years before it came back pixelated and stretched out.

If the logo iis being updated, do you have a link to a picture?


When you say logo, are you talking about this?

Image

The livery will be updated which means I imagine the logo will also be updated.

As for what it will look like, we don't know yet. There was a competition done among university student submissions two months ago, but it appears they won't be adopting any of their designs.

See below:
https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEastAirl ... 463737579/
 
Cedric13
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:34 am

jfk777 wrote:
MEA needs seem to be too much for either plane as their longest flight is probably 5 hours. An 787-9 is silly unless they fly ti JFK, Montreal or Asia. AN A321neo may be the best replacement unless they fly lots of Cargo on their A330-200. The new Boring NMA could be a great plane for MEA.

Their longest flights are around 6 to 8 hours long (Abidjian, Accra, Lagos) and they hinted about launching flights to the American continent.
 
Cedric13
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:36 am

DDR wrote:
I don’t see an airline from Lebanon ordering American aircraft.

Well you are wrong because wings of lebanon operates a couple of boeing 737s and MEA used to operate 707s and 747s...
 
BA
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:48 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Unless they’re planning to fly regularly to New York or China, I see this as an A339 order. What is the MTOW on their A332s? (Last year, the newest one flew out to JFK from BEY for UN Week.)


I don't know, but OD-MED was delivered in 2008, while OD-MEA, OD-MEB, OD-MEC were all delivered in 2009, while OD-MEE was delivered in 2016.

Not sure what MTOW ranges were offered by Airbus on the A332 during those years.

Cedric13 wrote:
DDR wrote:
I don’t see an airline from Lebanon ordering American aircraft.

Well you are wrong because wings of lebanon operates a couple of boeing 737s and MEA used to operate 707s and 747s...


Wings of Lebanon has one 737-300, but is about to add a 737-700.

Here it is in Hanover (HAJ) last month:


I'm not sure if this an addition or if it will replace their single 737-300.
 
imthedreamliner
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 am

Seems to be the next battleground for dreamliner against 330NEO. A tough one to win.
 
ME720
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:34 am

Unless they plan to expand into Brazil, Australia, and maybe a few destinations in Asia .. 787 might suddenly become interesting.. if it is to renew their fleet and expand the existing network the 330neo is definitly the option, I guess.
 
LifelinerOne
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:37 am

Balloonchaser wrote:
I’ll be honest here.. I think they are gonna go for Airbus but then get a better offer by Boeing with extra options... The A330NEO is gonna die off with no buyers


The deal from Boeing needs to be very good then as their crews are being cross-used on both the A320s and A330s. Adding a new type means also adding complexity in crewing these planes. And as we are only talking about four to five planes here, I'm not sure that is large enough to justify this as MEA's fleet is not that big.

But, stranger things happen in the aviation industry...

Cheers! :wave:
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Any reason why they need to use widebody aircraft on such short routes? Surely the airports don't have gate shortages?

I would have thought even a low density A321 would be cheaper per passenger on all of their routes. Added bonus of extra frequency.
 
Cedric13
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:14 pm

Mea fly double a330 daily to CDG and to LHR, they fly 8 hour long flights to Africa and are planning to launch plenty of new destinations in eastern Europe, they are launching a new Madrid service starting June and they are looking to the most demanded route, Montreal that MEA AND AIRCANADA are actively looking to launch...
Beirut airport is getting expanded to accomodate more than 20m passengers so there is no gate shortage...
Mea is actively expanding it’s network as are other airlines doing by actively launching new flights to Beirut so regardless of the decision it’s a step in the right direction for MEA
 
DDR
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:31 pm

BA wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Unless they’re planning to fly regularly to New York or China, I see this as an A339 order. What is the MTOW on their A332s? (Last year, the newest one flew out to JFK from BEY for UN Week.)


I don't know, but OD-MED was delivered in 2008, while OD-MEA, OD-MEB, OD-MEC were all delivered in 2009, while OD-MEE was delivered in 2016.

Not sure what MTOW ranges were offered by Airbus on the A332 during those years.

Cedric13 wrote:
DDR wrote:
I don’t see an airline from Lebanon ordering American aircraft.

Well you are wrong because wings of lebanon operates a couple of boeing 737s and MEA used to operate 707s and 747s...


Wings of Lebanon has one 737-300, but is about to add a 737-700.


I'm not sure if this an addition or if it will replace their single 737-300.


Thanks BA! I did not know this. Maybe Boeing does have a chance. Would like to see the Airbus flying for MEA though.
 
A388
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:49 pm

BA wrote:
jubguy3 wrote:
BA wrote:

There was a competition done among university student submissions two months ago, but it appears they won't be adopting any of their designs.

See below:
https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEastAirl ... 463737579/


Looking at that facebook link they don't show the winner of that competition but start with the second winner so it may well be that they will go for the winner of this competition. Just my hunge. But I agree, their livery needs to be updated even though I still like the current one.


A388
 
hisham
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:45 pm

It’s funny how stereotypes work. Lebanon and American airliners doesn’t fit the stereotype.

I bet two American universities and several American high schools will never happen either. And the US will never arm the Lebanese Army either.

Funny stuff if it wasn’t so ignorant.
 
Eyad89
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:56 pm

ME720 wrote:
Unless they plan to expand into Brazil, Australia, and maybe a few destinations in Asia .. 787 might suddenly become interesting.. if it is to renew their fleet and expand the existing network the 330neo is definitly the option, I guess.


If they were considering long haul routes, they would be comparing 787 against A350. The fact that they are considering A339 instead tells me this plane isn’t meant for 10+ hour flights.
 
yegbey01
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:14 pm

MEA may not fly to YUL, NYC, or SYD anytime soon....but I think their need for larger aircraft has to do with their dependency on flying slot restricted airports such as LHR and to CDG where they rely on connecting their pax onwards. It may not be feasible to fly multiple dailies where connections may not be suitable. They even started running the A332 on the FRA route.

Given that BEY is sandwiched between major hubs in Europe and the gulf, they have no chance in competing on long haul routes. I don't think the local market can sustain more than two or three true long haul destinations.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:23 pm

This is a smaller airline so leasing is probably likely. I would think 4 A330's in the 10-12 year age would be the best for them. They indicated the planes are needed in the 2019 to 2021 time frame. It is unlikely either will get slots that quick for the A330, very unlikely for the 787.
 
BA
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:31 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
This is a smaller airline so leasing is probably likely.


Their existing five A330-200s are all owned so I expect the same for this upcoming order.

JayinKitsap wrote:
I would think 4 A330's in the 10-12 year age would be the best for them.


That doesn't make any sense, why would they buy second hand 10-12 year old A330s to replace their existing A330s that are 9-10 years old?
 
raffik
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:48 pm

Interested at people thinking it's odd that MEA have wide bodied aircraft! :roll:

Some of the African routes are in excess of 7 1/2 hours- similar to London to New York, or London to Dubai..

MEA does not have an extensive route network but what came out of the reshuffle in the late 1990s is a shift to focus on routes which are very popular with high demand.
Beirut is a popular destination for people in the surrounding area- Cyprus, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf ( Emirates are seeking to bring the A380 a regular visitor on a 3 hour flight!!)
and doesn't just rely on European routes although it fills cargo and passenger seats on two double A330s to Paris, regular A330 service to Copenhagen, London (double daily) and even
fills the A330 on routes to Istanbul, Cairo, Larnaca and their Gulf routes.

As much as I would love to see the airline operate the 787, I see this going to Airbus. MEA had wanted to purchase the 767 in the 1980s/1990s but Boeing did not assist with a financial package and /or did not pursue the sale. Since then Airbus have seen all of MEA's passenger orders (apart from the Embraers)

I have met Hout, CEO of MEA and he told me directly that MEA would never serve any of their long haul destinations again to Asia or Australia because of the Gulf carriers and their lower cost operations.

Beirut passenger figures are up, the airport is stretched beyond capacity and the airline will need these larger wide bodied aircraft for the foreseeable future.
 
artofzen
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:23 pm

MEA used 720s as well.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:46 pm

I have a hunch they'll go for the Dreamliner, I'm sure Boeing will fight hard, as they have been.
 
N415XJ
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:24 pm

DDR wrote:
I don’t see an airline from Lebanon ordering American aircraft.


Lebanon and the US do not have any significant trade restrictions. In fact, the Lebanese Air Force is comprised entirely of western and American aircraft, and they bought a military version of the Cessna Caravan directly from the US only a few years ago. Whatever MEA chooses, it won't be mediated by the political relationship with the US, but rather only on what makes the most financial sense for the airline. If the 787 is the most sensible option, there would be nothing stopping the airline from buying them.
 
ramzi
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:22 pm

BA wrote:
Lebanon's national carrier, Middle East Airlines (MEA), will make a decision next month on an order for either four Airbus A330-900neo or four Boeing 787-9 aircraft according to this interview between the Lebanese Plane Spotters Facebook group and MEA's CEO Mohammed El-Hout.

https://www.facebook.com/LebanesePlaneS ... 0730900781
https://www.facebook.com/LebanesePlaneS ... 901330364/

LPS: Knowing that MEA maintains a young average fleet age of 6-7 years, will the current fleet be substituted by the new one?
MH: MEA sells or returns any plane that overlaps 13 years of service, regardless of the fact that planes are manufactured to fly for over 20-30 years. All our ODs that are older than 13 years will be sold, and all our T7s older than 13 years old as well will be returned back to the leaser. We are expecting 15 new planes, 11 Airbus A321neo and 4 wide-bodies. Either Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9. Deliveries will start from 2019 until 2021.

LPS: Is MEA leaning more towards the Airbus A330-900neo or the Boeing 787-9?
MH: To be honest the Airbus A330-900neo has an advantage over the Boeing 787-9 as our pilots and cabin crew are used and type rated on such an aircraft. However, the final decision will be taken next month!


I would love to see Boeing win this one, especially since MEA has a past history with Boeing operating 707s and 747-200s, but realistically I see this going to Airbus for the type rating advantage.

MEA currently has an order for 11 Airbus A321neo aircraft which they will start taking delivery of next year. They currently have 18 aircraft total, 13 Airbus A320-200s and 5 Airbus A330-200s as well as 2 Embraer Legacy 500 business jets operated under their VIP charter service, Cedar Executive.

https://www.mea.com.lb/
http://www.cedarexecutive.com/


They actually currently operate 14 A320s and 5 A330s. I may be slightly off, but I believe that 6 of the A320s are leased and all other aircraft are owned. The idea is that the 11 A321NEOs will replace the oldest A320s, keeping the most recent 3 frames, the ones with sharklets. I don't expect those will hang on much longer, so I would guess there are options with that order that would be converted pretty soon.

MEA switched from A321s (6 of them) to A320s (the current 14) and I have heard from several pilots that there was a little regret in that decision. They were able to fill A321s in the past, but used the A320 to open new routes and increase frequencies (LHR, DXB, JED, RUH, AMM are just a few destinations that get 2 or 3 flights per day). Added destinations turned out to be very popular, and despite the increased frequencies, they are still getting very high load factors. This seems to be true given they are switching back to A321, and seemingly not decreasing the amount of aircraft.

The Business Class on the A320s is quite dismal unfortunately, of course that's not a problem on the 20 minute hope to LCA or even the 3 hour trip to the Gulf but it is a deal breaker for many passengers flying to LHR, where you could end up sitting in the aircraft for 6 hours or more if you consider holding patterns and boarding time on a single aisle. BA, on the other hand, offers lie-flats on their mid-haul A321s, which are always full.

Regarding the A339 vs 789, as exciting as it would be to see Boeing return to the MEA fleet, I don't see it happening. The cost of training their crew of completely new type will complicate their operation, especially for an airline that small. I can imagine this would be just as complicated (if not more) in terms of maintenance. With a 330neo there is virtually no changes to be done, but a 787 would incur significant costs, which I doubt will be that easily balanced out by a difference in operating costs. Finally, they are replacing 4 of the A330s, the 5th and newest frame will be around for a while. Its not the craziest thing I've heard, but it would be pretty strange to operate 1 A330 and 4 787s. I was even under the impression that there was a 6th A330 expected to join the fleet in 2018, but that seems to have faded away.

I'm generally of the opinion that we will eventually see 14 A321neos and 6 A339s in the fleet, plus the 2 Legacy 500s. MEA has been pretty consistent, they leased their entire 2001 fleet, then replaced it with a little more purchased aircraft, then leased a few more for growth, which are now going to be replaced with purchased ones. That makes me wonder if also in the near future we will see leases for more A321s, even possibly A321LRs to be used for more frequency on the west African destinations.

To answer the question on using wide body aircraft on short routes, there are easy comparison points: EK with 3x 77W daily to Beirut, AF with daily 77W plus seasonal 332, even TK now flying the A333 once or twice daily. The traffic is there, and the timing is important. Most MEA flights leave BEY in the early morning on the first run, the airport is completely saturated at that time, there are take off queues through the morning rush hour. I don't think they are interested in having two narrow bodies go to the same destination two hours apart. Add to that restrictions that I know play a role at LHR, CDG, and even IST (bilaterals in this case) and you have your answer. I'm actually mildly surprised that we are not seeing a larger wide body order. I for one have never been on an A330 on MEA with less than a 90% load factor.
 
Cedric13
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:05 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
Any reason why they need to use widebody aircraft on such short routes? Surely the airports don't have gate shortages?

I would have thought even a low density A321 would be cheaper per passenger on all of their routes. Added bonus of extra frequency.

Emirates sends 3 daily 777-300er and are thinking of sending their a380 while AirFrance send their 777-300er on a 4h route with an additional 772 and a330 flight in the summmer in addition to flights to Marseille and Nice...
All the widebodys being used have a high load factor on these routes
 
Cedric13
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:07 pm

[list=][/list]
JayinKitsap wrote:
This is a smaller airline so leasing is probably likely. I would think 4 A330's in the 10-12 year age would be the best for them. They indicated the planes are needed in the 2019 to 2021 time frame. It is unlikely either will get slots that quick for the A330, very unlikely for the 787.

Mea retires or sell all aircraft that are 13+ years old immediatly so they will never get an aircraft that is more that 6 years old... They currently have 13 a320, 5 a330-200 and 11 a321 neo on order in addition to the 4 widebodys that are going to be ordered.
 
Cedric13
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:09 pm

N415XJ wrote:
DDR wrote:
I don’t see an airline from Lebanon ordering American aircraft.


Lebanon and the US do not have any significant trade restrictions. In fact, the Lebanese Air Force is comprised entirely of western and American aircraft, and they bought a military version of the Cessna Caravan directly from the US only a few years ago. Whatever MEA chooses, it won't be mediated by the political relationship with the US, but rather only on what makes the most financial sense for the airline. If the 787 is the most sensible option, there would be nothing stopping the airline from buying them.

Exactly... The US arms the Lebanese army and keep donating to improve it and “wings of lebanon” are already customers of boeing so no problem here.
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:29 am

Cedric13 wrote:
Mea fly double a330 daily to CDG and to LHR, they fly 8 hour long flights to Africa and are planning to launch plenty of new destinations in eastern Europe, they are launching a new Madrid service starting June and they are looking to the most demanded route, Montreal that MEA AND AIRCANADA are actively looking to launch...
Beirut airport is getting expanded to accomodate more than 20m passengers so there is no gate shortage...
Mea is actively expanding it’s network as are other airlines doing by actively launching new flights to Beirut so regardless of the decision it’s a step in the right direction for MEA

Looking at the route map I only see the LHR as an airport that might have slot restrictions.

I find it pretty crazy to go with a widebody on such routes. It's not like Emirates with Dubai airport and their long haul model. Emirates will use a 777 on a 2 hour flight if the plane has just done a 13 hour flight. It helps get 24 usage as the plane could have been sitting idle for 11 hours waiting for its next departure.

They should just add a few A321LR's to go with their current order. On new routes they open they could maintain much higher yields with a narrowbody. Busy high yield routes with a single daily A330 flight could probably upgauge to a pair of daily A321. Medium yield initially with similar profit and the added frequency could capture more market share.
 
Cedric13
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:26 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Cedric13 wrote:
Mea fly double a330 daily to CDG and to LHR, they fly 8 hour long flights to Africa and are planning to launch plenty of new destinations in eastern Europe, they are launching a new Madrid service starting June and they are looking to the most demanded route, Montreal that MEA AND AIRCANADA are actively looking to launch...
Beirut airport is getting expanded to accomodate more than 20m passengers so there is no gate shortage...
Mea is actively expanding it’s network as are other airlines doing by actively launching new flights to Beirut so regardless of the decision it’s a step in the right direction for MEA

Looking at the route map I only see the LHR as an airport that might have slot restrictions.

I find it pretty crazy to go with a widebody on such routes. It's not like Emirates with Dubai airport and their long haul model. Emirates will use a 777 on a 2 hour flight if the plane has just done a 13 hour flight. It helps get 24 usage as the plane could have been sitting idle for 11 hours waiting for its next departure.

They should just add a few A321LR's to go with their current order. On new routes they open they could maintain much higher yields with a narrowbody. Busy high yield routes with a single daily A330 flight could probably upgauge to a pair of daily A321. Medium yield initially with similar profit and the added frequency could capture more market share.

CDG flights are still packed with double daily a330 and AF 777 aswell as aigleazur a320 and transavia 737...
There is a high demand on some routes where mea needs to use bigger planes.
London, Frankfurt, Dubai, Abidjian, Accra are other examples.
 
ME720
Posts: 193
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:31 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Cedric13 wrote:
Mea fly double a330 daily to CDG and to LHR, they fly 8 hour long flights to Africa and are planning to launch plenty of new destinations in eastern Europe, they are launching a new Madrid service starting June and they are looking to the most demanded route, Montreal that MEA AND AIRCANADA are actively looking to launch...
Beirut airport is getting expanded to accomodate more than 20m passengers so there is no gate shortage...
Mea is actively expanding it’s network as are other airlines doing by actively launching new flights to Beirut so regardless of the decision it’s a step in the right direction for MEA

Looking at the route map I only see the LHR as an airport that might have slot restrictions.

I find it pretty crazy to go with a widebody on such routes. It's not like Emirates with Dubai airport and their long haul model. Emirates will use a 777 on a 2 hour flight if the plane has just done a 13 hour flight. It helps get 24 usage as the plane could have been sitting idle for 11 hours waiting for its next departure.

They should just add a few A321LR's to go with their current order. On new routes they open they could maintain much higher yields with a narrowbody. Busy high yield routes with a single daily A330 flight could probably upgauge to a pair of daily A321. Medium yield initially with similar profit and the added frequency could capture more market share.



LHR, IST, DXB, FRA have slot restrictions..MEA had tried for years to add a 3rd daily to DXB, finally succeeded but red eye service out of DXB. They have tried to get slots for a second daily to FRA apparently without success. They tried for years to increase service to IST finally they solved that issue by code sharing with TK
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:58 am

Cedric13 wrote:
DDR wrote:
I don’t see an airline from Lebanon ordering American aircraft.

Well you are wrong because wings of lebanon operates a couple of boeing 737s and MEA used to operate 707s and 747s...


And then there were those gorgeous "TMA of Lebanon" 707 freighters. These were frequent visitors to AMS during the 70s and 80s; I think these birds ignited my love for the 707 when I was a boy.



So yeah, Lebanon surely has a long history with Boeing jets. But back on topic: MEA has had an all-Airbus fleet for a long time now so I think the A339 would make more sense to them from a commonality point of view. However, we've been seeing quite some 787 surprises over the last weeks...
 
BA
Topic Author
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:00 am

ramzi wrote:
They actually currently operate 14 A320s and 5 A330s. I may be slightly off, but I believe that 6 of the A320s are leased and all other aircraft are owned. The idea is that the 11 A321NEOs will replace the oldest A320s, keeping the most recent 3 frames, the ones with sharklets. I don't expect those will hang on much longer, so I would guess there are options with that order that would be converted pretty soon.


These two sources show they have 13 A320s, seven owned (the OD registrations) and six leased (the T7 registrations):

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/M ... t-Airlines
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/MEA.htm
 
Jetty
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:23 am

DDR wrote:
I don’t see an airline from Lebanon ordering American aircraft.

Why would that be? To understand the politics of Lebanon is to understand the dynamic of the whole Middle-East, as it has large Sunni, Shia and Christian minorities and is right in the middle. That's not easy as an outsider. Please include in your answer why Iran does order American aircraft while an airline from Lebanon wouldn't.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:40 am

I see the A339 winning out, and possibly with more than just 4 (OD-MEE can be kept purely as a VIP plane). It seems as though 6 would be useful, and then A21Ns to replace the four San Marino-registered non-wingleted A320s. The additional plane could be used to launch YUL at 3x weekly (I'd be surprised if they return to JFK). A fleet size of about 25 would be close to ideal (7 A339s, 1 A332 for VIP, 16-17 A21Ns.) One could also be used to add a second daily to London, albeit to Gatwick.

I'm actually surprised that MEA doesn't serve AMS (in fact, there is no nonstop between the two markets at all, not even on KLM or Transavia). I'm also surprised that MEA didn't consider the A330-300 Regional before...they don't need the range, but they do need the seat capacity and cargo lift.
 
ME720
Posts: 193
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:35 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I see the A339 winning out, and possibly with more than just 4 (OD-MEE can be kept purely as a VIP plane). It seems as though 6 would be useful, and then A21Ns to replace the four San Marino-registered non-wingleted A320s. The additional plane could be used to launch YUL at 3x weekly (I'd be surprised if they return to JFK). A fleet size of about 25 would be close to ideal (7 A339s, 1 A332 for VIP, 16-17 A21Ns.) One could also be used to add a second daily to London, albeit to Gatwick.

I'm actually surprised that MEA doesn't serve AMS (in fact, there is no nonstop between the two markets at all, not even on KLM or Transavia). I'm also surprised that MEA didn't consider the A330-300 Regional before...they don't need the range, but they do need the seat capacity and cargo lift.


They already operate double daily to LHR.
AMS will be linked by Transavia as of NOV ‘18
I think that their BRU service makes AMS obsolete.
CDG is their primary connection point.
 
Cedric13
Posts: 69
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:26 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I see the A339 winning out, and possibly with more than just 4 (OD-MEE can be kept purely as a VIP plane). It seems as though 6 would be useful, and then A21Ns to replace the four San Marino-registered non-wingleted A320s. The additional plane could be used to launch YUL at 3x weekly (I'd be surprised if they return to JFK). A fleet size of about 25 would be close to ideal (7 A339s, 1 A332 for VIP, 16-17 A21Ns.) One could also be used to add a second daily to London, albeit to Gatwick.

I'm actually surprised that MEA doesn't serve AMS (in fact, there is no nonstop between the two markets at all, not even on KLM or Transavia). I'm also surprised that MEA didn't consider the A330-300 Regional before...they don't need the range, but they do need the seat capacity and cargo lift.

Mea isn’t retiring any a330, Amsterdam is going to be linked with Transavia starting November 1st and London is already served by a double daily...
They are looking into a comeback to the US(need gov approval)/Canada market...
Beirut airport is now serving nearly every European destination (hub and non hubs) so they are surely looking to expand where the biggest demand is and that is the Americas (south and north)
 
ramzi
Posts: 253
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:58 pm

BA wrote:
ramzi wrote:
They actually currently operate 14 A320s and 5 A330s. I may be slightly off, but I believe that 6 of the A320s are leased and all other aircraft are owned. The idea is that the 11 A321NEOs will replace the oldest A320s, keeping the most recent 3 frames, the ones with sharklets. I don't expect those will hang on much longer, so I would guess there are options with that order that would be converted pretty soon.


These two sources show they have 13 A320s, seven owned (the OD registrations) and six leased (the T7 registrations):

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/M ... t-Airlines
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/MEA.htm


Interesting, I'm pretty sure I have been on OD-MRQ that both those lists don't show. I may have read an 'O' as 'Q'. I'll need to go back and check my photos.
 
ramzi
Posts: 253
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:02 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I see the A339 winning out, and possibly with more than just 4 (OD-MEE can be kept purely as a VIP plane). It seems as though 6 would be useful, and then A21Ns to replace the four San Marino-registered non-wingleted A320s. The additional plane could be used to launch YUL at 3x weekly (I'd be surprised if they return to JFK). A fleet size of about 25 would be close to ideal (7 A339s, 1 A332 for VIP, 16-17 A21Ns.) One could also be used to add a second daily to London, albeit to Gatwick.

I'm actually surprised that MEA doesn't serve AMS (in fact, there is no nonstop between the two markets at all, not even on KLM or Transavia). I'm also surprised that MEA didn't consider the A330-300 Regional before...they don't need the range, but they do need the seat capacity and cargo lift.


AMS-BEY-AMS was just announced by Transavia, twice weekly starting November 1.

As of today they aren't allowed to fly to the US, and there's no hint of that changing. Air Canada tried to fly direct to BEY but were blocked, or let's say convinced by the US to cancel.

They already fly double daily to Heathrow. They're not interested in Gatwick because SkyTeam onward connections are a big part of the demand at LHR.

I've also always thought it was strange they never considered the A330-300. There is little doubt they'd fill it easily on routes like DXB, IST, and CDG. That being said, I don't see the fleet making it to 25 for maybe another 10 years.
 
ramzi
Posts: 253
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Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:06 pm

Cedric13 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
I see the A339 winning out, and possibly with more than just 4 (OD-MEE can be kept purely as a VIP plane). It seems as though 6 would be useful, and then A21Ns to replace the four San Marino-registered non-wingleted A320s. The additional plane could be used to launch YUL at 3x weekly (I'd be surprised if they return to JFK). A fleet size of about 25 would be close to ideal (7 A339s, 1 A332 for VIP, 16-17 A21Ns.) One could also be used to add a second daily to London, albeit to Gatwick.

I'm actually surprised that MEA doesn't serve AMS (in fact, there is no nonstop between the two markets at all, not even on KLM or Transavia). I'm also surprised that MEA didn't consider the A330-300 Regional before...they don't need the range, but they do need the seat capacity and cargo lift.

Mea isn’t retiring any a330, Amsterdam is going to be linked with Transavia starting November 1st and London is already served by a double daily...
They are looking into a comeback to the US(need gov approval)/Canada market...
Beirut airport is now serving nearly every European destination (hub and non hubs) so they are surely looking to expand where the biggest demand is and that is the Americas (south and north)


I highly doubt we will see approval for the US/Canada anytime soon. The CEO said there is not plan in the near future to serve any of those destinations. Keep in mind if they fly directly to places like JFK and YUL a big bulk of their traffic to Geneva, London, and Paris will be lost. Paris thrives on the AF partnership, and Geneva thrives on the Air Canada code share. The interesting question is with non stop service, will they slowly kill BA and LH, both of which carry many transatlantic fliers from Beirut.
 
mozart
Posts: 2181
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:21 am

Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:13 pm

jubguy3 wrote:
My only wish is that they change their logo :/


My only wish is that they change their Business Class seats
 
olba
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:09 pm

Re: Middle East Airlines (MEA) decision next month: Airbus A330-900neo or Boeing 787-9

Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:10 am

mozart wrote:
jubguy3 wrote:
My only wish is that they change their logo :/


My only wish is that they change their Business Class seats


Lebanese Plane Spotters mentioned sometime last year that the new wide bodies will have a configuration of 1-2-1. So they will have new seats. Also, all new planes will have wifi

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