dcajet
Topic Author
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TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:02 pm

Again, in the context of the WTTC meeting being held in Buenos Aires this week, Miguel Frasquilho, Chairman of the Board, TAP, announced that the airline's growth plans for 2019 include Buenos Aires EZE. He also mentioned that the exact date will be made available once the airline starts receiving its new wide body fleet later this year.

TAP used to to EZE in the late 60s and early 70s - with the 707.

https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2126833-con ... con-lisboa
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
EddieDude
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:30 pm

Wow! Congrats to EZE and TP. EZE is on fire.

I wish TP would consider flying to MEX too.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:18 am

EddieDude wrote:
EZE is on fire.


Actually, now that you mention it:

Image

This was last month, some grasslands SE from the field caught fire. Lots of smoke but no interruptions to the airport's operations.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:20 am

TAP Air Portugal should return its operations to Panama City and Bogota, both are strong Star Alliance Hubs and it is a good time to return
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
pzurita1
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:22 am

EddieDude wrote:
Wow! Congrats to EZE and TP. EZE is on fire.

I wish TP would consider flying to MEX too.



So do I, dear EddieDude!
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
pabloeing
Posts: 594
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:19 am

¿A330-900 NEO?
 
runway23
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:34 am

TP has been rumored to possibly start LIS-YUL last year, is that plan shelved or could they still announce YUL ?
 
Kikko19
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:16 am

when back to HAV? with the a321LR /a339 would be perfect for seasonal changes.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:36 pm

TAP confirmed today via government officials in Lisbon the LIS-EZE route for 2019. The rest of the article is a bit odd as it talks about China traffic to Argentina via Lisbon.

https://www.clarin.com/viajes/aerolinea ... aaP2G.html
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
LXwing
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:20 pm

TAP's LIS-EZE should start for S19 (W18 is unlikely), it can't start just now because of lack of aircraft due to the delay in their A339neo deliveries.
Nothing odd about the talk of China traffic, TAP currently codeshares with JD on LIS-PEK (3-4 weakly and bound to increase) so they will be able to offer a EZE-PEK service with the additional possibility of a stopover in LIS.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:08 am

LXwing wrote:
TAP's LIS-EZE should start for S19 (W18 is unlikely), it can't start just now because of lack of aircraft due to the delay in their A339neo deliveries.
Nothing odd about the talk of China traffic, TAP currently codeshares with JD on LIS-PEK (3-4 weakly and bound to increase) so they will be able to offer a EZE-PEK service with the additional possibility of a stopover in LIS.

Weird. EZE-PEK is no huge market, and there is literally a dozen or more well-established (in Argentina as well as in China) airlines who offer that, and many more Asian destinations as well.

Before people jump in with the "huge amount of Chinese in Argentina, there is even a Chinatown in Belgrano"-argument: most of these are from Fujian province, better served through CAN or HKG. And these would be lousy yield VFR fares anyway...
 
dcajet
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:04 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
LXwing wrote:
TAP's LIS-EZE should start for S19 (W18 is unlikely), it can't start just now because of lack of aircraft due to the delay in their A339neo deliveries.
Nothing odd about the talk of China traffic, TAP currently codeshares with JD on LIS-PEK (3-4 weakly and bound to increase) so they will be able to offer a EZE-PEK service with the additional possibility of a stopover in LIS.


Weird. EZE-PEK is no huge market, and there is literally a dozen or more well-established (in Argentina as well as in China) airlines who offer that, and many more Asian destinations as well.

Before people jump in with the "huge amount of Chinese in Argentina, there is even a Chinatown in Belgrano"-argument: most of these are from Fujian province, better served through CAN or HKG. And these would be lousy yield VFR fares anyway...


Argentina has been promoting itself as a destination on China's Alibaba Fliggy platform, with a huge reach within China. China tourism to Argentina is doubling YoY.

http://www.batimes.com.ar/news/economy/ ... rket.phtml

http://www.thebubble.com/argentina-unve ... a-alibaba/
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
MalevTU134
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:46 am

dcajet wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
LXwing wrote:
TAP's LIS-EZE should start for S19 (W18 is unlikely), it can't start just now because of lack of aircraft due to the delay in their A339neo deliveries.
Nothing odd about the talk of China traffic, TAP currently codeshares with JD on LIS-PEK (3-4 weakly and bound to increase) so they will be able to offer a EZE-PEK service with the additional possibility of a stopover in LIS.


Weird. EZE-PEK is no huge market, and there is literally a dozen or more well-established (in Argentina as well as in China) airlines who offer that, and many more Asian destinations as well.

Before people jump in with the "huge amount of Chinese in Argentina, there is even a Chinatown in Belgrano"-argument: most of these are from Fujian province, better served through CAN or HKG. And these would be lousy yield VFR fares anyway...


Argentina has been promoting itself as a destination on China's Alibaba Fliggy platform, with a huge reach within China. China tourism to Argentina is doubling YoY.

http://www.batimes.com.ar/news/economy/ ... rket.phtml

http://www.thebubble.com/argentina-unve ... a-alibaba/

Oh, sure, I don't argue with that. But I don't think you should count on getting significant amount of high-yielding traffic between 2 markets where:
a) you are the new kid on the block in both markets
b) both markets are awash with seats from competitors with very aggresive pricing (see ET for example), daily flights and brand recognition.
c) you can really only connect 2 dots (PEK and EZE), your only destinations in the Far East and non-Brazil South America, respectively (bar a few weekly to CCS - where nobody in their right mind goes nowadays - which you don't even fly yourself (so no FF miles) and it's in a triangle route to add), while your competitors offer more flexibility.
d) your Chinese passengers will need a Schengen transit visa, unless these few-times-a-week flights (I presume that PEK will not be daily, either, from the beginning) connect perfectly at LIS both ways, while your competitors can offer seamless connections at their hubs.

Imagine the fares TP will have to offer to compete on a very long flight, and what that does to yields - and all this is before the first Chinese airline (HU?, CA?, MU?, CZ?) has set foot in Argentina with their usually very aggressive pricing. Not really something that you would want to base a new long-haul flight on, even to a lesser degree. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that TP starts EZE, in fact, they should have done it years ago, before experimenting with BOG/PTY and some secondary Brazilian cities. They have great potential in Argentina - just not to China. They should focus 100% on connecting Argentina with Portugal and the rest of Europe, the same strategy that has brought them success in Brazil for decades.
 
LXwing
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:01 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
But I don't think you should count on getting significant amount of high-yielding traffic between 2 markets where:
a) you are the new kid on the block in both markets
b) both markets are awash with seats from competitors with very aggresive pricing (see ET for example), daily flights and brand recognition.
c) you can really only connect 2 dots (PEK and EZE), your only destinations in the Far East and non-Brazil South America, respectively (bar a few weekly to CCS - where nobody in their right mind goes nowadays - which you don't even fly yourself (so no FF miles) and it's in a triangle route to add), while your competitors offer more flexibility.
d) your Chinese passengers will need a Schengen transit visa, unless these few-times-a-week flights (I presume that PEK will not be daily, either, from the beginning) connect perfectly at LIS both ways, while your competitors can offer seamless connections at their hubs.

Imagine the fares TP will have to offer to compete on a very long flight, and what that does to yields - and all this is before the first Chinese airline (HU?, CA?, MU?, CZ?) has set foot in Argentina with their usually very aggressive pricing. Not really something that you would want to base a new long-haul flight on, even to a lesser degree. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that TP starts EZE, in fact, they should have done it years ago, before experimenting with BOG/PTY and some secondary Brazilian cities. They have great potential in Argentina - just not to China. They should focus 100% on connecting Argentina with Portugal and the rest of Europe, the same strategy that has brought them success in Brazil for decades.


I think you are missing the point here. Nobody suggested TP was returning to EZE (they have operated there for many years in the past) because of a plan to connect EZE and PEK (or China as a whole). TP is returning mainly for the O&D pax and those connecting to Europe. The idea of taking advantage of the EZE-LIS route to connect to China was advanced by some Argentinian authorities (cited in the posted news), and I merely clarified that it would be indeed possible as TP codeshares with JD on LIS-PEK (and down to PEK-HGH) and they could even offer a free stopover at LIS. Connection times in LIS are not currently known, but I would think that they should probably be able to offer short connection times if the schedules are similar to those of other South American routes (like POA or GRU). Of course I don't anticipate that such EZE-LIS-PEK service would draw massive traffic (or yield), but if you factor in the known preference of most wealthy Chinese tourists (and business pax too) of using Chinese carriers as much as possible, things could start to look interesting. Even a dozen or so such pax on each EZE-LIS flight could help to make the route more profitable. And let's not forget that the HNA group (the parent company of HU and JD) is also TP's shareholder and has repetedely stated they want to explore the South America-China traffic with connections in LIS to TP's routes. For example, it is currently possible to do GRU-LIS-PEK with 3-5 h connections during the morning at LIS.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:47 pm

It is only a matter of time until we see a Chinese carrier @ EZE - I give it 3-5 years.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/ ... expand-its
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
airbazar
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:02 pm

LXwing wrote:
I think you are missing the point here. Nobody suggested TP was returning to EZE (they have operated there for many years in the past) because of a plan to connect EZE and PEK (or China as a whole). TP is returning mainly for the O&D pax and those connecting to Europe.

Actually the LIS-EZE route is long overdue. Between the connections to/from Spain where TP serves no less than 11 destinations, and the Wine industry traffic this route will do very well. The largest group of Argentinians outside of Argentina are in Spain, and the majority of those don't live in Madrid where IB flies from, predominantly. Any China traffic will be a bonus but lets not forget that TP has operating costs that are lower than any other European carrier and they have the backing of the HNA Group. On top of that they are receiving incentives from Argentina, for sure so competing on price will not be an issue at all for TP.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:26 pm

airbazar wrote:
LXwing wrote:
I think you are missing the point here. Nobody suggested TP was returning to EZE (they have operated there for many years in the past) because of a plan to connect EZE and PEK (or China as a whole). TP is returning mainly for the O&D pax and those connecting to Europe.

Actually the LIS-EZE route is long overdue. Between the connections to/from Spain where TP serves no less than 11 destinations, and the Wine industry traffic this route will do very well. The largest group of Argentinians outside of Argentina are in Spain, and the majority of those don't live in Madrid where IB flies from, predominantly. Any China traffic will be a bonus but lets not forget that TP has operating costs that are lower than any other European carrier and they have the backing of the HNA Group. On top of that they are receiving incentives from Argentina, for sure so competing on price will not be an issue at all for TP.


Further to your point, the strongest immigration to Argentina from Spain came from Galicia. TAP could capitalize on that, as they offer very good connections to A Coruña and Santiago de Compostela @ LIS, that should be faster than a connection at MAD or even worse, BCN.

Read on Twitter - can't find the particular tweet now, that the planned route is LIS-GRU-EZE... Not sure about that stop though...
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
efpmeneses
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:18 am

TAP doesn't fly to Santiago de Compostela, but on that region(s):
    In Galicia TAP flies to "Vigo" and "La Coruña", and
    In Asturias TAP flies to "Oviedo"

Besides that, in Spain TAP flies to:
    Bilbao
    Barcelona
    Madrid
    Valencia
    Alicante
    Malaga
    Sevilla
    Gran Canaria (Las Palmas)

A big presence on the neighbour country...
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:37 am

efpmeneses wrote:
TAP doesn't fly to Santiago de Compostela, but on that region(s):
    In Galicia TAP flies to "Vigo" and "La Coruña", and
    In Asturias TAP flies to "Oviedo"

Besides that, in Spain TAP flies to:
    Bilbao
    Barcelona
    Madrid
    Valencia
    Alicante
    Malaga
    Sevilla
    Gran Canaria (Las Palmas)

A big presence on the neighbour country...


And much faster than connecting via MAD, particularly if going to Galicia, Asturias or Euskadi (provided there are good connecting schedules). Now, if they end up stopping at GRU on the way, it'll erase much of the competitive edge TAP may have with a nonstop EZE-LIS.

Thanks for the correction - Vigo El Peinador it is!
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 42
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:52 am

The News in here were about direct flight... although I know the meaning of direct in aviation, I don't believe it will be a tag on at any of the GRU flights....

Enviado do meu ASUS_Z00AD através do Tapatalk
 
dcajet
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Re: TAP Portugal to fly LIS-EZE in 2019

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:25 am

efpmeneses wrote:
The News in here were about direct flight... although I know the meaning of direct in aviation, I don't believe it will be a tag on at any of the GRU flights....

Enviado do meu ASUS_Z00AD através do Tapatalk


Good to hear; LIS-EZE is perfectly doable with their A332 CEOs.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"

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