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enilria
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Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:27 pm

Despite the denials to the contrary, the continued expelling of diplomats by both sides is at the root of this. This escalation needs to stop.

The Russian Foreign Ministry says increasing delays by the United States in issuing visas could result in flagship airline Aeroflot ending flights to the U.S.
State-owned Aeroflot is the only airline with scheduled year-round U.S. flights.

A ministry statement Thursday complained that the waiting time for interviews for U.S. visa applicants has stretched to 250 days. "In other words, it's senseless to apply for a visa," it said.

Aeroflot "may be forced to stop (flights) because the crews are experiencing growing difficulty in obtaining American visas," the statement said.


https://www.wftv.com/news/russia-says-u ... /734747524
 
dcajet
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:22 pm

Madness...
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:00 am

Its not just Aeroflot.

One of my client airlines noted that since last fall there has been a significant slow down in issuance of crew visas.

While issue might not be critical in the short run, longer term it can cause scheduling mess as growing number of crew members require renewals and new crew members require their initial visa’s particularly for cockpit crews as they move between fleet types.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MARSHAL1
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:09 am

Hmmm well Russia ordered the American consulate in St. Petersburg to be closed. Closing this consulate means longer waiting times for visas. So why is Russia crying?
 
BENAir01
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:10 am

Let’s not get off topic. This is an aviation, not politics, forum.
Where does SU currently fly? JFK, LAX, IAD? ORD? MIA?
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
Varsity1
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:11 am

Couldn't care less. Hopefully they end flights to the U.K. too.
 
alfa164
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:12 am

There will still be plenty of connections for travelers wanting to go to Moscow, or any other Russian city.

After the World Cup is over, US-Russian tourism will return to the slump that has plagued it for the past few years;other than VFR traffic, not many people on the US-end would miss having an SU nonstop to SVO. Russians traveling to Florida will probably feel it more.
Last edited by alfa164 on Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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MAH4546
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:16 am

BENAir01 wrote:
Let’s not get off topic. This is an aviation, not politics, forum.
Where does SU currently fly? JFK, LAX, IAD? ORD? MIA?


Triple daily to New York, up to daily to Los Angeles, up to 5w to Miami and once(!) a week to Dulles.
a.
 
ScottB
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:48 am

enilria wrote:
Despite the denials to the contrary, the continued expelling of diplomats by both sides is at the root of this. This escalation needs to stop.

Aeroflot "may be forced to stop (flights) because the crews are experiencing growing difficulty in obtaining American visas," the statement said.


I don't really see how SU ending its flights to the U.S. would induce the State Department to process visas more quickly, though. The expulsion of 60 U.S. diplomats from Russia likely didn't help matters. But it's really an empty threat since access to Russia would remain available through literally dozens of third countries. Slowing down visas for U.S. nationals would likely do little more than damage an already moribund tourist market.
 
winginit
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:56 am

As Aeroflot is the only carrier who flies routine scheduled nonstop commercial service between the US and Russia... who would this really impact besides just them, and that being the case... who cares?
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:35 am

My "Aeroflot Soviet Airlines" shirt makes for good conversation here in the US, wonder if I wore it to Russia...
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
spongenotbob
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:08 am

Interesting story but given the lousy yields they get on these flights, (check SVO-LAX one week out, for example) I'm sure it makes a handy excuse too.

I've flown SU a number of times. Very nice service in the air; absolutely miserable, inflexible, and marginally ethical on the ground.
 
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Qfsaviation
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:29 am

Yeah, I don't think Aeroflot would benefit from pulling out operations to the US. From what I know the flights are pretty full. But there is a problem with the visas taking forever. I had planned on traveling there in 2 weeks for the Victory parade but the Visas are coming in late now.
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timpdx
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:55 am

Meh, I just don't want trouble transiting SVO in a few weeks with a US passport.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:09 am

Please keep the thread on topic. Political discussions unrelated to aviation belong in the Non Aviation Forum.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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NeBaNi
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:20 am

Will be sad not to see the striking 77W/ A330s at LAX if this is true. One of my favorite liveries to spot at LAX!
 
directorguy
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:46 am

In the event of reduced or cut SU service, who is most likely to benefit? KLM? TK? EK?
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:50 am

ScottB wrote:
I don't really see how SU ending its flights to the U.S. would induce the State Department to process visas more quickly, though. The expulsion of 60 U.S. diplomats from Russia likely didn't help matters. But it's really an empty threat since access to Russia would remain available through literally dozens of third countries. Slowing down visas for U.S. nationals would likely do little more than damage an already moribund tourist market.


Reciprocity.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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cougar15
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:53 am

directorguy wrote:
In the event of reduced or cut SU service, who is most likely to benefit? KLM? TK? EK?


LH will surely be happy to pick up some of the slack, especially with Austrian as part of the group! On that note, I am surprised this thread is still in civ av. Propaganda is a 2 way street and a bit of open mindedness or objectivity from one or 2 poster above may have lead to a rational civil aviation discussion on an interesting subject!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
cedarjet
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:53 am

To be clear — they’re not talking about doing it as a punishment, they’re saying they may have no choice if their crews can’t get visas
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:57 am

cedarjet wrote:
To be clear — they’re not talking about doing it as a punishment, they’re saying they may have no choice if their crews can’t get visas


And, as a consequence, don't you think they might make it hard for American crews to get visas?
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
thevery
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:59 am

directorguy wrote:
In the event of reduced or cut SU service, who is most likely to benefit? KLM? TK? EK?

Both AF/DL/KL JV and Star A++ JV for Europe flights and probably TK for TLV ans TSB flights.
 
panamair
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:12 am

Pellegrine wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
To be clear — they’re not talking about doing it as a punishment, they’re saying they may have no choice if their crews can’t get visas


And, as a consequence, don't you think they might make it hard for American crews to get visas?


But as already mentioned above, no US carrier flies to Russia today so it's a non-issue for American crews....
 
thevery
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:19 am

spongenotbob wrote:
Interesting story but given the lousy yields they get on these flights, (check SVO-LAX one week out, for example) I'm sure it makes a handy excuse too.

There is no need for excuse to reduce flights, they can easily downgauge them first in the summer schedule from 77w to A333/A332. Fares in Y might be low for the direct flight, but on the other hand, both A++ and AF/KL/DL JV offers crazy Europe-US fares as low as 300 Euro for RT. SU J fares are not trash and they have lower base cost compared to EU legacies.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:20 am

panamair wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
To be clear — they’re not talking about doing it as a punishment, they’re saying they may have no choice if their crews can’t get visas


And, as a consequence, don't you think they might make it hard for American crews to get visas?


But as already mentioned above, no US carrier flies to Russia today so it's a non-issue for American crews....


My bad. I thought DL still had that flight. They could make it harder for pax in turn.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:27 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
panamair wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

And, as a consequence, don't you think they might make it hard for American crews to get visas?


But as already mentioned above, no US carrier flies to Russia today so it's a non-issue for American crews....


My bad. I thought DL still had that flight. They could make it harder for pax in turn.


They dopped JFK-SVO. Aeroflot upped it to 3x daily.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:33 pm

The delays in getting Russian visas have also affected corporate traffic. Three colleagues heading to Russia in 10 days have cancelled their trips - just too much hassle.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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yowza
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:42 pm

Before SU ditched YYZ most flights I saw boarding for Moscow seemed to have only a small percentage of Russian speakers. I doubt it's that skewed to transit traffic in the states but it would be interesting if anyone can muster the passenger figures for SU routes ex USA - specifically Russia-bound pax figures?

YOWza
 
hohd
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:51 pm

Considering what happened to some transit passengers flying from DEL to JFK recently - who cares. Aeroflot needs to improve its customer service especially during IRROPS.
 
evank516
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:55 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
panamair wrote:

But as already mentioned above, no US carrier flies to Russia today so it's a non-issue for American crews....


My bad. I thought DL still had that flight. They could make it harder for pax in turn.


They dopped JFK-SVO. Aeroflot upped it to 3x daily.


Don't they do it seasonally though?
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:31 pm

evank516 wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

My bad. I thought DL still had that flight. They could make it harder for pax in turn.


They dopped JFK-SVO. Aeroflot upped it to 3x daily.


Don't they do it seasonally though?


It used to be seasonal. I believe DL now ended it completely.
 
dcajet
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

evank516 wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

My bad. I thought DL still had that flight. They could make it harder for pax in turn.


They dopped JFK-SVO. Aeroflot upped it to 3x daily.


Don't they do it seasonally though?


Gone from the system. DL will route you via CDG or AMS on AF/KL.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
stlgph
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:48 pm

directorguy wrote:
In the event of reduced or cut SU service, who is most likely to benefit? KLM? TK? EK?


Depends on how you look at it. There's the obvious need for premium traffic and all that jazz but in the past few years Aeroflot has been very competitive with Turkish Airlines on filing their economy sections with people looking for (often bargain) rates to eastern and yes, even western Europe. Pretty much think of it as Turkish north - fly to Moscow, turn around and head back to your destination.

LOT Polish may see a benefit on both fronts. Finnair may see a benefit with filling their coach section on discounted airfares connecting through Helsinki.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jumbojet
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:53 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
My "Aeroflot Soviet Airlines" shirt makes for good conversation here in the US, wonder if I wore it to Russia...


you can buy them on amazon for 10 US dollars. Just bought me one. Thanks for the heads up

https://www.amazon.com/AEROFLOT-russian ... flot+shirt
 
workhorse
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:06 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
My "Aeroflot Soviet Airlines" shirt makes for good conversation here in the US, wonder if I wore it to Russia...


No one would care. It would be like wearing a Pan Am shirt in the US.
 
directorguy
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:42 am

What about EK specifically? A detour, but EK has planes to fill (12x weekly to Florida which I understand is popular with Russians). Plus Dubai is popular with Russians where they own property, have social and business ties, get visa free access making it a common stopover city.
 
HHScot
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:19 am

I think the issue here is not only about crews having difficulty getting visas, but also passengers. I can imagine quite a drop in passenger numbers for non-political reasons.
 
brian415
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:26 am

SU may want to negotiate a codeshare agreement with WestJet, at which time, they could resume flights to Canada (Toronto and Montreal) and add Vancouver. This way, they can collect premium passenger revenue for the majority of the flight. Passengers would continue their journey on WS to the US destination.

SU already has a codeshare with Icelandair (FI), but FI does not have enough capacity to handle the displaced SU passengers.
 
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LOWS
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:32 am

Austrian will do well. Who else to fill a cheap flight to MIA?
Last edited by LOWS on Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
brian415
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:40 am

HHScot wrote:
I think the issue here is not only about crews having difficulty getting visas, but also passengers. I can imagine quite a drop in passenger numbers for non-political reasons.

Can't the US State Department simply target occupation ("pilot" and "flight crew") and slow down the application process for them? Isn't that what is happening?
 
workhorse
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:41 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Couldn't care less. Hopefully they end flights to the U.K. too.


I guess what would make you the most happy is if they stopped flying abroad completely. Am I right?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:54 am

brian415 wrote:
SU may want to negotiate a codeshare agreement with WestJet, at which time, they could resume flights to Canada (Toronto and Montreal) and add Vancouver. This way, they can collect premium passenger revenue for the majority of the flight. Passengers would continue their journey on WS to the US destination.

SU already has a codeshare with Icelandair (FI), but FI does not have enough capacity to handle the displaced SU passengers.

Excellent idea! With this "solution", Russians would not only need US visas, but Canadian visas as well.. . :banghead:
 
tu204
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:44 pm

brian415 wrote:
HHScot wrote:
I think the issue here is not only about crews having difficulty getting visas, but also passengers. I can imagine quite a drop in passenger numbers for non-political reasons.

Can't the US State Department simply target occupation ("pilot" and "flight crew") and slow down the application process for them? Isn't that what is happening?


I don't think there is any specific targeting on who to delay visas for.

Issue here is that in the last year the US declared over 200 Russian diplomats non grata. Russia did the same and expelled an equal ammount of US diplomats.

Pretty obvious that a big share of those officials on both sides were the guys and gals processing the visa application.

So I am not surpirsed that now it takes ages for Americans to get Russian visas and vice versa...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Faro
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Re: Aeroflot May End Flights to the U.S. in Escalating Dispute

Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:46 pm

winginit wrote:
As Aeroflot is the only carrier who flies routine scheduled nonstop commercial service between the US and Russia... who would this really impact besides just them, and that being the case... who cares?



:checkmark:

Yes..in a nutshell...


Faro
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