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flymco753
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:47 pm

DTW/CLE-FLL is bad. LF's are low, seems like revenue per flight is among some of the lowest in the system. I cant see them ending DTW-BOS unless EK announces DTW. Even then, the 6am DTW-BOS flight does relatively well, so perhaps they chop the flights down to 2x daily and both on the A320.

I could see them potentially replacing DTW/CLE-FLL with MCO. At MCO, we (as in the people who live here) have B6 access to the most popular Caribbean destinations for travelers in the midwest, add a strong O&D base with pax willing to use added services and heavier bags. I think DTW/CLE-MCO would be better off.
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tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:55 pm

fastmover wrote:

Exactly. This is an airliners.net rumor. People talking about pit going away, lol, it’s one of the most profitable routes Bos-Pit. Iad has massive connections on it. Cle was just added not long ago Btv is always full.

If this was to happen and I doubt it, it would have to be part of a major shift in what jetblue is doing and going to do. You don’t just close 6 to 8% of your stations without a plan and if there is none we might as well be sold to SWA.


Agreed, but I think there are stations they can cut that will not really hurt their network that much and will allow them to cut costs. Those once/twice a day or seasonal stations like ANC/RNO/ABQ/PSP don't necessarily generate the revenue needed to be kept around at the current fuel prices. And I could see them ending SAV/DAB also. And if that means they have more fund to add new stations like London or Dublin, I don't have a problem with it.

But historically speaking, B6 doesn't seem like an airline that abandons this many stations, especially when they are still making healthy profit.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:59 pm

PSP has mint on it at times.

The season keeps getting longer.

I think SAV and DAB are safe as these are short flights.

It is the western, trans con, once-a-day cities that have issues I would imagine.

But it is a big problem going forward.

B6 is just not relevant out west.

They said they were doubling down on their transcon strategy where they were relevant.

This shows they arent too relevant there either
 
evank516
Posts: 1943
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:15 pm

tphuang wrote:
fastmover wrote:

Exactly. This is an airliners.net rumor. People talking about pit going away, lol, it’s one of the most profitable routes Bos-Pit. Iad has massive connections on it. Cle was just added not long ago Btv is always full.

If this was to happen and I doubt it, it would have to be part of a major shift in what jetblue is doing and going to do. You don’t just close 6 to 8% of your stations without a plan and if there is none we might as well be sold to SWA.


Agreed, but I think there are stations they can cut that will not really hurt their network that much and will allow them to cut costs. Those once/twice a day or seasonal stations like ANC/RNO/ABQ/PSP don't necessarily generate the revenue needed to be kept around at the current fuel prices. And I could see them ending SAV/DAB also. And if that means they have more fund to add new stations like London or Dublin, I don't have a problem with it.

But historically speaking, B6 doesn't seem like an airline that abandons this many stations, especially when they are still making healthy profit.


Why would they end SAV/DAB if they're making money on them? As you said, B6 doesn't really abandon many stations and I can speak for DAB since their revenue guarantees for B6 expired a year ago and they haven't gone anywhere.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
fastmover wrote:

Exactly. This is an airliners.net rumor. People talking about pit going away, lol, it’s one of the most profitable routes Bos-Pit. Iad has massive connections on it. Cle was just added not long ago Btv is always full.

If this was to happen and I doubt it, it would have to be part of a major shift in what jetblue is doing and going to do. You don’t just close 6 to 8% of your stations without a plan and if there is none we might as well be sold to SWA.


Agreed, but I think there are stations they can cut that will not really hurt their network that much and will allow them to cut costs. Those once/twice a day or seasonal stations like ANC/RNO/ABQ/PSP don't necessarily generate the revenue needed to be kept around at the current fuel prices. And I could see them ending SAV/DAB also. And if that means they have more fund to add new stations like London or Dublin, I don't have a problem with it.

But historically speaking, B6 doesn't seem like an airline that abandons this many stations, especially when they are still making healthy profit.



Yes you could but many of those are red eye flights where the plane would just be sitting around anyway.
I don’t think Sav would go anywhere. Again we are talking about a rumor. As you know jetblue is super super careful about routes and new city’s. They are not Frontier and don’t like to close places. If it were true as you are thinking it would be a bigger shift to Europe or something like that. But if you are going to launch Europe why kill some of your feed? Yes you could definitely kill RNO or DAB or ANC I just don’t think this is a true rumor.

Again if they close 6-8 stations with no future plan, well this entire ELT needs to go.
 
AA94
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:33 pm

fastmover wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
They cant cut DEN PDX or PHX. That would be akin to CO cutting SLC in the 90s.

B6 is major airline and they need to serve those places.

I could see ABQ and RNO and other secondary, one flight a day red eye cities getting cut.

When (and if) this happens though, B6 will officially be lost in the woods and in serious trouble going forward.



Exactly. This is an airliners.net rumor. People talking about pit going away, lol, it’s one of the most profitable routes Bos-Pit. Iad has massive connections on it. Cle was just added not long ago Btv is always full.

If this was to happen and I doubt it, it would have to be part of a major shift in what jetblue is doing and going to do. You don’t just close 6 to 8% of your stations without a plan and if there is none we might as well be sold to SWA.


There are many, many things on this site that are rumors, but alas this is not one of them. Network purge is coming, and it will indeed involve some longtime dots on the route map. JetBlue has long resisted the (industry standard) frequent reevaluation of destinations, but that is changing.
 
fastmover
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:42 pm

AA94 wrote:
fastmover wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
They cant cut DEN PDX or PHX. That would be akin to CO cutting SLC in the 90s.

B6 is major airline and they need to serve those places.

I could see ABQ and RNO and other secondary, one flight a day red eye cities getting cut.

When (and if) this happens though, B6 will officially be lost in the woods and in serious trouble going forward.



Exactly. This is an airliners.net rumor. People talking about pit going away, lol, it’s one of the most profitable routes Bos-Pit. Iad has massive connections on it. Cle was just added not long ago Btv is always full.

If this was to happen and I doubt it, it would have to be part of a major shift in what jetblue is doing and going to do. You don’t just close 6 to 8% of your stations without a plan and if there is none we might as well be sold to SWA.


There are many, many things on this site that are rumors, but alas this is not one of them. Network purge is coming, and it will indeed involve some longtime dots on the route map. JetBlue has long resisted the (industry standard) frequent reevaluation of destinations, but that is changing.



I guess anything can happen. It would come as a major shock to most of us as I have not heard even a little about something like this. But management has perfected staying super quiet. My only hope is this would be about a much larger plan. If I was to guess it would be a lot of out west stuff. I assume if they really want to make a go a Europe it’s time to get rid of anything that is underperforming and focus on what makes money.
Last edited by fastmover on Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:42 pm

I'm fine with some cuts.......as long as it selfishly means IND-BOS :spin:
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SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:52 pm

If they do cut, I’m guessing it will be destinations that serve JFK and/or BOS to make room for future Europe slots
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:58 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
If they do cut, I’m guessing it will be destinations that serve JFK and/or BOS to make room for future Europe slots


JFK/BOS-Europe is years away, they don't need to free up space for those flights for a while

Abeam79 wrote:
Chalk this up as Anet rumor gone off the rails. B6 has never in its history or bad economic times cut “5-6 blue cities “ or in high prices, maybe cutting a year round to seasonal ie abq,rno and 1 blue city maybe Anc, but I doubt it. Phx,abq etc are significant feed into their Jfk hub, might not be high yields but you need to give the network strategy to feed into its east coast strength


The dude who posted this works/worked (can't remember which one) for B6 so he has insider information.
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748iDEN
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:58 pm

I imagine they would start cutting routes out West that just don’t have great yields but DEN will surely not be cut. The market is very large and each time I’ve taken the flight it seems rather full to JFK.
 
evank516
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:54 pm

fastmover wrote:
tphuang wrote:
fastmover wrote:

Exactly. This is an airliners.net rumor. People talking about pit going away, lol, it’s one of the most profitable routes Bos-Pit. Iad has massive connections on it. Cle was just added not long ago Btv is always full.

If this was to happen and I doubt it, it would have to be part of a major shift in what jetblue is doing and going to do. You don’t just close 6 to 8% of your stations without a plan and if there is none we might as well be sold to SWA.


Agreed, but I think there are stations they can cut that will not really hurt their network that much and will allow them to cut costs. Those once/twice a day or seasonal stations like ANC/RNO/ABQ/PSP don't necessarily generate the revenue needed to be kept around at the current fuel prices. And I could see them ending SAV/DAB also. And if that means they have more fund to add new stations like London or Dublin, I don't have a problem with it.

But historically speaking, B6 doesn't seem like an airline that abandons this many stations, especially when they are still making healthy profit.



Yes you could but many of those are red eye flights where the plane would just be sitting around anyway.
I don’t think Sav would go anywhere. Again we are talking about a rumor. As you know jetblue is super super careful about routes and new city’s. They are not Frontier and don’t like to close places. If it were true as you are thinking it would be a bigger shift to Europe or something like that. But if you are going to launch Europe why kill some of your feed? Yes you could definitely kill RNO or DAB or ANC I just don’t think this is a true rumor.

Again if they close 6-8 stations with no future plan, well this entire ELT needs to go.


They won't close DAB. They've never closed a Florida station to date. If they were going to close DAB it would have happened already after the incentives ended last year. To my knowledge they didn't extend them either.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:13 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
I'm fine with some cuts.......as long as it selfishly means IND-BOS :spin:


B6 has returned to all the cities it abandoned at some point save for two. One of them would make a lot of sense to revisit. :spin:
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nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:45 pm

If the rumor actually is not that and bears validity I’d predict;

RNO-Gone
SJC- Gone
ABQ- Gone
LGB- All intra-West gets clipped. Retains JFK/BOS/FLL only. And I really don’t see how BZN/HDN works more than a few weeks. I predict a short lived flop.

I see LGB eventually being being shuttered and SNA replacing it once the A220 comes online. Higher yields, plane capable of runway restraints and a premium cabin offering. This move would be good and bad. Good in that SNA will offer higher yields, bad in that if B6 doesn’t time these flights right, there is no showing up late and paying late curfew fees, there’s a forced diversion to either LAX/ONT/BUR!
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
wnflyguy
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:05 pm

Only future withdrawals B6 has talked about was further cuts could happen at LGB by eliminating inter California markets like SJC,SMF,SFO and OAK. But if there less than daily Seasonal test are successful LGB May see those slots used for other markets. There been rumblings that they may drop LGB-OAK and add LGB-TPA/MCO next year. MCO would be a day turn and TPA a red eye turn.
I don't see the elimination any cities.
But who knows the new leadership trying to cut cost and refocus on core markets.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:09 pm

Looks like B6 will have a lot of extra planes and crews around.

6-8 transcons a day is around 14 hours of aircraft time times 8.

112 hours of extra plane time per day.

3360 hours of plane time per month.

That is around 42 pilots of excess lying around.

I wonder if this leads to furloughs or a hiring freeze?

Sounds bizzare in 2018...but looks like B6 is going to shrink significantly.

It would require a lot of short or medium haul flying to be added To counteract this let alone grow at their projections
 
Fex180
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:31 pm

BTV and PWM wouldn't surprise me. At PWM B6's numbers have been slowly falling for a few years now. They've done virtually nothing in the way of expanding service at either PWM or BTV since 2014.
 
evank516
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:43 pm

Fex180 wrote:
BTV and PWM wouldn't surprise me. At PWM B6's numbers have been slowly falling for a few years now. They've done virtually nothing in the way of expanding service at either PWM or BTV since 2014.


BTV has been around pretty much since the beginning, and PWM started shortely thereafter. I don't see them abandoning any markets in the Northeast.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:10 pm

They won't withdraw from BTV/PWM. They need those to feed Florida flights and the O&D traffic also make money. Stuff they will cut are the low yielding west coast stuff. They've already reduced winter schedule on routes like MCO-LAX, JFK-PDX, FLL-LGB, which are all huge money loosers.

Imo, if they cut bluecities, it will mostly be stuff like JFK-RNO/ABQ/PSP/SJC. That will give them slots needed to fly to London. Or if they are not ready for that yet, they can repurpose them for island routes. They've added frequency to numerous Carribean routes this year and might enter GEO or PTY at some point. Those island routes will be almost as long and far more profitable than long thin west coast stuff that probably would work a lot better with A220.

Yes, they are not slot constrained in winter time, but in summer peak season, it seems like they use every slot they have and still need to add more flights between 5 and 6 am. And if they want to enter something like JFK-IND/MSP, that needs slots too. They've cut frequencies on JFK-BOS (shifted to EWR), JFK-Florida (through upgauging) to get more slots, but they are at the limit of that.

Having said that, it would be a huge disappointment if they don't go to Europe and just use that capacity for more Carribean stuff.
 
FlyBTV
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
They won't withdraw from BTV/PWM. They need those to feed Florida flights and the O&D traffic also make money. Stuff they will cut are the low yielding west coast stuff. They've already reduced winter schedule on routes like MCO-LAX, JFK-PDX, FLL-LGB, which are all huge money loosers.


Hopefully not but we will see. It's been 10 years since I worked for them at BTV, but my recollection is that they never had an issue filling planes out of BTV, but I always heard the yields lagged behind other destinations and they could make more money in other markets. That was what I was told when they cut BTV-MCO (after I left). The problem with BTV is the small size of the metro area population and that generally incomes are not as competitive in VT compared to other places (even places with a decently lower cost of living). There's just not as large a market that is purchasing high fares on JetBlue. Frequent business travelers are likely going on one of the legacies that offers more destinations (and have multiple connection alternatives for when there are weather delays in New York). Folks flying to Florida are a leisure market and are pretty price sensitive. Also keep in mind that they probably have higher costs at BTV vs other cities - BTV is one of the few small cities where they don't contract out ground handling - everything is done with B6 employees.

A lot of folks are speculating on here, but very few meet the cities tossed out criteria of a few being original B6 cities - if that part of the rumor is correct. That's what has me concerned about BTV. They can make more money elsewhere, particularly in a scenario where they need to serve the airport with an A220 rather than an E190.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:05 pm

BTV and Upstate NY along with ORH are served for POLITICAL reasons.

New Air was many years ago...but ol Chuck Schumer is still around.

I’m sure they all make money or at least some money...But they aren’t going anywhere

There is a reason why JetBlue has slot exemptions at JFK. There is a reason why they have a headquarters in the most expensive city in the world At comparable cost to Central Florida.

Jetblue is very political in New York State
 
jetbluefan1
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
fastmover wrote:

Exactly. This is an airliners.net rumor. People talking about pit going away, lol, it’s one of the most profitable routes Bos-Pit. Iad has massive connections on it. Cle was just added not long ago Btv is always full.

If this was to happen and I doubt it, it would have to be part of a major shift in what jetblue is doing and going to do. You don’t just close 6 to 8% of your stations without a plan and if there is none we might as well be sold to SWA.


Agreed, but I think there are stations they can cut that will not really hurt their network that much and will allow them to cut costs. Those once/twice a day or seasonal stations like ANC/RNO/ABQ/PSP don't necessarily generate the revenue needed to be kept around at the current fuel prices. And I could see them ending SAV/DAB also. And if that means they have more fund to add new stations like London or Dublin, I don't have a problem with it.

But historically speaking, B6 doesn't seem like an airline that abandons this many stations, especially when they are still making healthy profit.


I agree with your premise - a lot of these markets really do not add much to their network, so dropping them in exchange for adding more relevant stations could ultimately be the gameplan here.

PSP - I think will stay, as it does pick up Mint service around the holidays and I think over time could be a decently profitable market. There are A LOT of wealthy New Yorkers (especially gays with disposable income) who make an annual pilgrimage to PSP while New York is frozen in January.

I would swap out IAD for RNO in the list I provided further up the thread. Although there is no competition from NYC to RNO, it's still a low yielding market where B6 is struggling to claim a yield premium for the nonstop.

SAV - I'd be incredibly shocked to see this dropped. B6 seems to do quite well there....perhaps not as good as CHS, but still decent.

DAB - While probably not B6's most profitable Florida market, it's probably still doing decent enough to maintain the token daily JFK flight.

jfklganyc wrote:
Looks like B6 will have a lot of extra planes and crews around.

6-8 transcons a day is around 14 hours of aircraft time times 8.

112 hours of extra plane time per day.

3360 hours of plane time per month.

That is around 42 pilots of excess lying around.

I wonder if this leads to furloughs or a hiring freeze?

Sounds bizzare in 2018...but looks like B6 is going to shrink significantly.

It would require a lot of short or medium haul flying to be added To counteract this let alone grow at their projections


Thanks for doing the math, it certainly helps put things into perspective.

Frankly I'd be shocked if B6 just "parked" those aircraft/pilots instead of redeploying them into more strategic markets. There are still plenty of untapped markets from FLL (and to a lesser extent BOS), as well as a bunch of existing markets which could use increased frequencies. I also don't think Wall Street would be happy about an airline shrinking while the economy is growing at a relatively strong clip...

FlyBTV wrote:
tphuang wrote:
They won't withdraw from BTV/PWM. They need those to feed Florida flights and the O&D traffic also make money. Stuff they will cut are the low yielding west coast stuff. They've already reduced winter schedule on routes like MCO-LAX, JFK-PDX, FLL-LGB, which are all huge money loosers.


Hopefully not but we will see. It's been 10 years since I worked for them at BTV, but my recollection is that they never had an issue filling planes out of BTV, but I always heard the yields lagged behind other destinations and they could make more money in other markets. That was what I was told when they cut BTV-MCO (after I left). The problem with BTV is the small size of the metro area population and that generally incomes are not as competitive in VT compared to other places (even places with a decently lower cost of living). There's just not as large a market that is purchasing high fares on JetBlue. Frequent business travelers are likely going on one of the legacies that offers more destinations (and have multiple connection alternatives for when there are weather delays in New York). Folks flying to Florida are a leisure market and are pretty price sensitive. Also keep in mind that they probably have higher costs at BTV vs other cities - BTV is one of the few small cities where they don't contract out ground handling - everything is done with B6 employees.

A lot of folks are speculating on here, but very few meet the cities tossed out criteria of a few being original B6 cities - if that part of the rumor is correct. That's what has me concerned about BTV. They can make more money elsewhere, particularly in a scenario where they need to serve the airport with an A220 rather than an E190.


I understand your fears and it's quite clear that B6 is not as bullish on Upstate NY/BTV/PWM as it was ~10 years ago when most markets were connected to MCO or FLL (along with JFK on A320's). But B6 seems to command decent yield in these markets, and they also provide good feed. Granted, B6 is hyper-focused on local traffic, but I think these short East Coast hops serve a different function in the system.

But who knows, I may be wrong :D

jfklganyc wrote:
BTV and Upstate NY along with ORH are served for POLITICAL reasons.

New Air was many years ago...but ol Chuck Schumer is still around.

I’m sure they all make money or at least some money...But they aren’t going anywhere

There is a reason why JetBlue has slot exemptions at JFK. There is a reason why they have a headquarters in the most expensive city in the world At comparable cost to Central Florida.

Jetblue is very political in New York State


:checkmark:

And in Massachusetts too!
 
DeltaRules
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:43 am

DAB sent a delegation to New York today to talk future service:

https://www.facebook.com/flydaytonafirs ... &__tn__=-R
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B595
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:42 am

jfklganyc wrote:
BTV and Upstate NY along with ORH are served for POLITICAL reasons.

New Air was many years ago...but ol Chuck Schumer is still around.

It's been said that BTV was one of the inaugural B6 cities because David Neeleman is a Mormon and Vermont has a prominent place in the Mormon story. Same for SLC. I'd believe this before politics. I find it hard to believe that Chuck Schumer gives a rat's @ss about Vermont. And Vermont's most prominent politicians (Sanders, Leahy) aren't known to be influence peddlers and don't have much influence anyway.
 
Moosefire
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:07 am

It’s tough to imagine but what about HOU? It’s been open over ten years but still only has 2-3 flights (it peaked with 4). I can appreciate token service to major markets for the sake of serving them, but if they’re serious about doing some cutting Hobby wouldn’t shock me.
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
FlyBTV
Posts: 113
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:17 am

B595 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
BTV and Upstate NY along with ORH are served for POLITICAL reasons.

New Air was many years ago...but ol Chuck Schumer is still around.

It's been said that BTV was one of the inaugural B6 cities because David Neeleman is a Mormon and Vermont has a prominent place in the Mormon story. Same for SLC. I'd believe this before politics. I find it hard to believe that Chuck Schumer gives a rat's @ss about Vermont. And Vermont's most prominent politicians (Sanders, Leahy) aren't known to be influence peddlers and don't have much influence anyway.


Upstate NY is absolutely political, as is ORH. BTV unfortunately does not benefit from any of that. Leahy has a great deal of influence in the Senate, but not on any areas that could impact aviation.

The Mormon theory is interesting. I always assumed, without much basis, that the reason BTV was an early city was because a UVM alumni was the director of business development when they got started:

http://www.uvm.edu/vtquarterly/VQFALL00/skyblue.html

Iff I were founding an airline, I’d push for BTV to be served, and I’ve always assumed that’s what happened here.

On a side note, one of the JetBlue books (“Flying High,” I think), mentions that Wilcox dropped out of UVM for a year to work the ramp for an airline at BTV - mostly to pursue his passion for aviation. I read that book the summer between my freshman and sophomore year at UVM, and my immediate reaction was, “If this guy can do it, I can do it too.” I had no interest in stopping school, but I put in an application to every airline at BTV. I eventually ended up getting hired by B6 and spent a little under two years working part time there before I left to pursue another opportunity that was offering me a full time job after graduation. Working for them at BTV was probably the most fun I’ve ever had in a job, it was an amazing opportunity to have.
 
B595
Posts: 198
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:08 am

FlyBTV wrote:
Upstate NY is absolutely political, as is ORH. BTV unfortunately does not benefit from any of that.

Tha's what I was saying: The politics of upstate NY, i.e. Albany/Chuck Schumer, have nothing to do with B6 serving BTV. Upstate NY and BTV are two different worlds.

FlyBTV wrote:
The Mormon theory is interesting. I always assumed, without much basis, that the reason BTV was an early city was because a UVM alumni was the director of business development when they got started:

I've also wondered if there might have been a Peoples Express connection behind BTV getting B6 service. Peoples Express saw considerable success in BTV before it was absorbed into CO - it demonstrated that BTV could support a low-cost carrier. I could see someone carrying their experience at Peoples Express over to the HQ of B6. Granted, Peoples Express ended in 1987, 12 years before B6 was even founded.
 
Oslim540
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:56 pm

I'd hate to derail the conversation,
but looking through all the discussion I seem to have missed if there was a source for the rumor that B6 is cutting some of their outstations, did I just overlook something or is there no source on the subject yet?
Thanks
 
FlyBTV
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:09 pm

B595 wrote:
I've also wondered if there might have been a Peoples Express connection behind BTV getting B6 service. Peoples Express saw considerable success in BTV before it was absorbed into CO - it demonstrated that BTV could support a low-cost carrier. I could see someone carrying their experience at Peoples Express over to the HQ of B6. Granted, Peoples Express ended in 1987, 12 years before B6 was even founded.


That's another very interesting theory. Dave Barger would have worked with a lot of People Express folks as a result of the merger with Continental (where he spent a decent amount of time). I worked with someone at another job who was ex-PeopleExpress and personally knew him from their time together at Continental. I'm not sure whether there were other folks involved in the founding/early years who had a People Express connection.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:18 pm

Looks like SY is going seasonal on BOS-MSP. Also, DL cut one flight on BOS-DTW. both of which should give B6 a little more breathing room.
 
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flymco753
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
Looks like SY is going seasonal on BOS-MSP. Also, DL cut one flight on BOS-DTW. both of which should give B6 a little more breathing room.
B6 started to perform horribly on BOS-DTW in the last 6 months. By the way they were performing I was about to expect them to chop DTW-BOS down to 2x daily and replace FLL with MCO. The MCO swap is most likely to happen at this point. I wouldn't bother adding MSP-FLL at this point when fares are lower to the Caribbean from MSP than DTW or CLE, both in which are performing poorly to FLL.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:46 pm

Can't speak for any other market but DAB is going nowhere. If you think it's being dropped you have no idea what you're talking about, end of story.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
evank516
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:37 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Can't speak for any other market but DAB is going nowhere. If you think it's being dropped you have no idea what you're talking about, end of story.


Agreed. If they were dropping DAB it would have been done last year after most (if not all) of the incentives expired.
 
CaptPizzaPants
Posts: 21
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:40 pm

DAB regularly fills up around 88-90% most of the year (excluding current slow season). No worries there.
 
evank516
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:55 pm

CaptPizzaPants wrote:
DAB regularly fills up around 88-90% most of the year (excluding current slow season). No worries there.


They hit a record load factor in July with 94% too. Unfortunately August was only 79% for them though. They seem to be holding their own though despite one daily flight.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:59 pm

flymco753 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Looks like SY is going seasonal on BOS-MSP. Also, DL cut one flight on BOS-DTW. both of which should give B6 a little more breathing room.
B6 started to perform horribly on BOS-DTW in the last 6 months. By the way they were performing I was about to expect them to chop DTW-BOS down to 2x daily and replace FLL with MCO. The MCO swap is most likely to happen at this point. I wouldn't bother adding MSP-FLL at this point when fares are lower to the Caribbean from MSP than DTW or CLE, both in which are performing poorly to FLL.

I'm not really sure where you get the number from, but based on Q1 data, they are doing fine. At least not worse than a comparable route like BOS-CLE. And Q1 is typically the worse performing month.

This is number from T-100 June. Per flight is how many seats on average are offered per flight. BOSDTW results on B6 looks fine to me. FLL-DTW is weak, but that's always been the case. They need to keep offering it considering FLL is their top performing focus city during winter season. Without fare data, we simply can't read into much more than this.
Carrier Boarded ASM LF PerFlight
BOSDTW
DL 58298 66023 88.30% 156
NK 7345 8958 81.99% 149
B6 13768 16212 84.92% 111
FLLDTW
DL 40528 46654 86.87% 196
NK 21687 27312 79.40% 228
B6 7205 8800 81.88% 149
JFKATL
DL 72031 82158 87.67% 171
B6 15091 18000 83.84% 150
BOSATL
WN 19634 24557 79.95% 151
DL 120055 133810 89.72% 186
NK 7134 8700 82.00% 145
B6 34495 41122 83.88% 148
FLLATL
WN 41222 44869 91.87% 150
DL 137168 150053 91.41% 180
NK 41938 46823 89.57% 171
B6 16057 17850 89.96% 150
MCOATL
WN 41307 49270 83.84% 149
DL 171222 187160 91.48% 193
NK 16964 19245 88.15% 163
B6 7480 8850 84.52% 150
F9 11693 13570 86.17% 230
BOSMSP
DL 52650 57599 91.41% 170
NK 7459 8805 84.71% 147
SY 14151 17730 79.81% 164
B6 22352 27168 82.27% 151
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:11 pm

evank516 wrote:
CaptPizzaPants wrote:
DAB regularly fills up around 88-90% most of the year (excluding current slow season). No worries there.


They hit a record load factor in July with 94% too. Unfortunately August was only 79% for them though. They seem to be holding their own though despite one daily flight.

their performance is fine as I have stated numerous times. It's on the low end of their JFK-FL cities, but they are probably making money. Since we were discussing cutting of 6 to 8 possible cities, it will have to be some stations with 1 or 2 flights a day and not too important network wise. There aren't that many of those within JetBlue network. I guess BTV and SRQ could fit the description too.
 
727LOVER
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:03 pm

tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
CaptPizzaPants wrote:
DAB regularly fills up around 88-90% most of the year (excluding current slow season). No worries there.


They hit a record load factor in July with 94% too. Unfortunately August was only 79% for them though. They seem to be holding their own though despite one daily flight.

their performance is fine as I have stated numerous times. It's on the low end of their JFK-FL cities, but they are probably making money. Since we were discussing cutting of 6 to 8 possible cities, it will have to be some stations with 1 or 2 flights a day and not too important network wise. There aren't that many of those within JetBlue network. I guess BTV and SRQ could fit the description too.


They just renewed their lease with SRQ for 5 years. If they leave, that's a lot of money gone to waste.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:27 pm

ROC also fits the description, been a JetBlue city since almost the beginning, has only 1-2 (sometimes 3) daily flights to only JFK
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joeblow10
Posts: 193
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:31 pm

727LOVER wrote:
tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:

They hit a record load factor in July with 94% too. Unfortunately August was only 79% for them though. They seem to be holding their own though despite one daily flight.

their performance is fine as I have stated numerous times. It's on the low end of their JFK-FL cities, but they are probably making money. Since we were discussing cutting of 6 to 8 possible cities, it will have to be some stations with 1 or 2 flights a day and not too important network wise. There aren't that many of those within JetBlue network. I guess BTV and SRQ could fit the description too.


They just renewed their lease with SRQ for 5 years. If they leave, that's a lot of money gone to waste.


When signing an airport lease... you aren't paying up front (unless there is a clause that mandates this). You are simply signing an agreement on how rates will be calculated/used

So unless SRQ has a really unusual agreement, no, there is no money gone to waste
 
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FA9295
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:21 pm

Any chance that B6 could start JFK-MLB? Obviously, MLB has "Orlando" in the airport's title, but I think MLB is far enough away from MCO to possibly justify service. It would very likely be similar to how JFK-DAB is currently served.
 
MAH4546
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:34 pm

727LOVER wrote:
tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:

They hit a record load factor in July with 94% too. Unfortunately August was only 79% for them though. They seem to be holding their own though despite one daily flight.

their performance is fine as I have stated numerous times. It's on the low end of their JFK-FL cities, but they are probably making money. Since we were discussing cutting of 6 to 8 possible cities, it will have to be some stations with 1 or 2 flights a day and not too important network wise. There aren't that many of those within JetBlue network. I guess BTV and SRQ could fit the description too.


They just renewed their lease with SRQ for 5 years. If they leave, that's a lot of money gone to waste.


Airlines leases have exit clauses. Airlines's don't blindly sign up for 5 year leases with no escape plan outside of their major hubs/outstations.
a.
 
evank516
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:46 pm

B6 has been in SRQ for over 10 years so I'm going to guess that they're not going anywhere. I would be surprised to see B6 pull out of any city it currently serves in Florida.
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 242
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:01 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
ROC also fits the description, been a JetBlue city since almost the beginning, has only 1-2 (sometimes 3) daily flights to only JFK


It’s always 3, sometimes 4. Been that way for about three years now.
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CobaltScar
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:05 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Any chance that B6 could start JFK-MLB? Obviously, MLB has "Orlando" in the airport's title, but I think MLB is far enough away from MCO to possibly justify service. It would very likely be similar to how JFK-DAB is currently served.


Its too close to MCO, would be a pointless addition.
 
evank516
Posts: 1943
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:24 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Any chance that B6 could start JFK-MLB? Obviously, MLB has "Orlando" in the airport's title, but I think MLB is far enough away from MCO to possibly justify service. It would very likely be similar to how JFK-DAB is currently served.


Its too close to MCO, would be a pointless addition.


It's only slightly closer to MCO than DAB is, and DAB seems to be maintaining their service. MLB has an advantage being the closest airport to Port Canaveral which is a busy cruise port. I wouldn't knock it.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:26 pm

I think if they do close 6 to 8 station, that could give them the opportunity to open more stations next year also. I would imagine SNA will be amongst the new stations since they are requesting for slots. GEO/PTY should be up there along with once city in the midwest. But it seems like other Florida cities are not on top of their priority list. If they do add another one, it will like be TLH.

speaking of intra-florida travel, I looked up T-100 numbers for April-June on FLL-JAX since WN started it in April. Looks good for B6 so far.

Carrier,Flights,Boarded,Seats,LF,SeatsPerFlight
WN,497,42373,73119,57.95%,147.1
B6,529,43369,53250,81.44%,100.7
 
FlyinRabbit88
Posts: 85
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:33 pm

Just for operational need, surprised Jetblue doesn’t connect more dots with other hubs. Such as LGB/LAX to PHX/DEN or MCO/FLL to PHX/DEN/LAS. There are times where flights have to get severely delayed due to crews potentially timing out from late flights from BOS/JFK.

It seems so far the day time BUR-JFK has done well.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:35 pm

As mentioned above. I also agree and wish that jetblue would connect some more dots for better network connectivity such as FLL-DEN/PHX/SEA/MCO/DFW/HOU and MCO-DEN/PHX/DFW/HOU. I know some of those might not be realistic right now but at some point they would be a logical add to the system.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:46 am

we all pray once the new terminal C is ready, that jetBlue gives SWA a run for its money and starts to connect a ton more places with MCO/Disney. Its kind of shocking how little of the rest of the USA jetBlue connects to MCO.

On a SIDE note: maybe with this new FAA bill coming out putting a stop to super high density aircraft configurations, B6 will be able to compete better for heartland traffic to MCO.
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