SC430
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 1:51 pm

How many here honestly ever expected Iran to take delivery of all these planes? These orders were a head fake to make the world believe they were playing nice. They didn't have the need nor the financing for 150 plus aircraft.

Boeing understood this and did not book it as a firm order. Like Amedeo Airbus will book anything to win an annual sales crown. Airbus would be foolish to flout the sanctions, and I doubt they will.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 1:56 pm

Dutchy wrote:
CHICAGO - The delivery of the first of 80 new Boeing aircraft to Iran Air has been postponed. Initially, the first a/c, a Boeing 77W, would be delivered this spring. But because of political issue's, this will be in 2019 at the earliest.

Iran Air signed for 50 Boeing 737Max, 15 Boeing 777-300ER and 15 Boeing 777-9.


https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... we-boeings

Yesterday Maron - the President of France - said he believed the Trump administration will pull out of the Iran deal and thus will make it impossible to deliver these a/c at all. So what do you guys think, will Iran Air gets its fleet renewable at all?



Meet Iran Air's future regional workhorse:

Image

Well, maybe after the SSJ-100R comes out.

Meet Iran Air's future mainline workhorse:

Image

(The C919 has WAAAAAAY to many US Components)

/Putin says, "Thanks Trump!"
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 2:03 pm

SC430 wrote:
...They didn't have the need nor the financing for 150 plus aircraft.


You should deeply review the population, current equipment, capabilities and needs of the country before jumping into such conclusions. You'll discover how different reality is than what you think.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 2:12 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
The US government likes to think they can extend their laws outside its borders, but in fact they can´t.

The US is exerting control on US exports and access to the US financial system, which in fact it can.

I agree actions have consequences, and likely significant ones.

Strap yourselves in, this should be a heck of a ride.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 2:18 pm

Jayafe wrote:
SC430 wrote:
...They didn't have the need nor the financing for 150 plus aircraft.


You should deeply review the population, current equipment, capabilities and needs of the country before jumping into such conclusions. You'll discover how different reality is than what you think.


You forgot to mention GEOGRAPHY. Iran needs air connections.

Here is Iran:

Image
 
dz09
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 2:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
dz09 wrote:
Why can't Boeing build aircraft in the face of an EU embargo. Boeing has all the technology it needs to build airplanes, Airbus doesn't. Being uses foreign suppliers for economical reasons not technological. I am sure Ge can make engines for the 737. I am sure airplanes seats can be made here too.

Regardless of the reasons Boeing picked various suppliers, they did indeed pick them, and those parts have been designed, developed, tested and certified already. If there was an EU embargo or even worse a world embargo against the US then production would have to stop till new vendors were selected and new parts were designed, developed, tested and certified.

there would be a setback for a little while but don't you think the US is capable of doing all that on its own? What other country on the planet can technically be 100% self sufficient? the point this adminstration is making is that the US has been pushed around for far too long and tthat they intend to correct bad deals made by previous administrations. I may be naive but I truly believe that this administration, with all its flaws, is serious about fighting for america's interests.

regarding the impact of this decision on the airlines industry, I still think Boeing will be fine. If Iran was interesed in using russian or chinesse sub-standard equipemnt they would have done it a long tinme ago. Moreover, I think people are paying way too much attention to Iran and its significance in the world stage. they are an insignificant player and the cacnellation of these orders will result in a very small dent in Boeing busnisess.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 2:35 pm

Revelation wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
The question is, would Trump be willing to punish US companies that sell parts to Airbus if Airbus continues to deliver aircraft to Iran? For example, Pratt & Whitney or General Electric.

Trump has said sanctions are being re-imposed, so he's willing to inflict punishment on US companies.

I don't think much can be done about parts already on assembled aircraft, but I do think a lot can be done about parts going on to new planes and parts going to restock spares.

US companies, especially ones doing business with the Department of Defense, do not play games when it comes to compliance.

The government can shut them down with a stoke of the pen, and everyone involved know it.

As Volkswagen learned, you do not want to piss off the US government.

I'm sure there's a difference between Boeing losing a couple of orders out of thousands or essentially shutting down most of P&W's civil engine section. (If they were prohibited to sell engines to Airbus in retaliation for Airbus delivering them to Iran.)

Oh, does Trump know that Aircraft are the no. 1 product in value sold from the US to the EU? (At least 2016: https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/euro ... pean-union)
 
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Polot
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 2:36 pm

I don’t think the EU and US are going to enter a trade war over Iran (although with Trump who knows). One involving aerospace would effectively shut down both Boeing and Airbus- US and EU civil aircraft production is too reliant on each other.

The US knows this, and the EU knows this. The EU can destroy the US’s biggest export but they will doing the same to their own in the process. Someone brought up Cuba and how other countries can just ignore the US. When was the last time Cubana purchased and took delivery of a new Airbus? What other countries choose to ignore will be product/industry dependent.
 
bob75013
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 2:54 pm

Polot wrote:
I don’t think the EU and US are going to enter a trade war over Iran (although with Trump who knows). One involving aerospace would effectively shut down both Boeing and Airbus- US and EU civil aircraft production is too reliant on each other.

.


You are absolutely correct. The U.S. embargo is on things with U.S. content going to IRAN -- not the EU. Thus, any embargo on the U.S. by the EU will not happen.
 
LewisNEO
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 2:57 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
SC430 wrote:
...They didn't have the need nor the financing for 150 plus aircraft.


You should deeply review the population, current equipment, capabilities and needs of the country before jumping into such conclusions. You'll discover how different reality is than what you think.


You forgot to mention GEOGRAPHY. Iran needs air connections.

Here is Iran:


Image



Great facts you show here. Iran is imho very capable of exploiting a fleet of 150+ new birds, the problem is the way of financing and de predeposits due to limitations in the use of financial systems, There were also agreements with European and US companies about helping to develop the logistical and airport system, not? I haven't read much about that.
You are the wind beneath my wings.

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Planeyguy
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:09 pm

Why do people think that EU would risk trade with the US over Iran? Airbus wouldn't sacrifice Delta and Frontier for Iranair. The same can be said for Boeing.
 
nikeherc
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:10 pm

Does it make sense for Europe to cut off many billions of dollars of trade with the U.S. to express their anger over several billion dollars worth of airplanes for Iran?
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
airbazar
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:20 pm

nikeherc wrote:
Does it make sense for Europe to cut off many billions of dollars of trade with the U.S. to express their anger over several billion dollars worth of airplanes for Iran?

It doesn't and they won't. However lets remember that the original sanctions were UN imposed while current sanctions will be U.S. imposed as I don't see the UN and Europe following along much like they've ignored the U.S. Cuba sanctions for decades. Iran is a little different than Cuba in that Iran actually has means to pay for things. So it will be very interesting to see how this evolves going forward.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:26 pm

Planeyguy wrote:
Why do people think that EU would risk trade with the US over Iran? Airbus wouldn't sacrifice Delta and Frontier for Iranair. The same can be said for Boeing.


What about to make a point? "You can't run away a signed deal for no reason and then tell us with who we can o cant do business for no reasons". And no, Netanyahu's ppts are no reasons.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:29 pm

A recent case of sanctions. The US imposed financial sanctions against North Korea, specifically banks conducting financial transactions with North Korea would not be allowed access to the US Banking system. Nearly all of the Chinese banks quickly complied.

Sanctions work when the client being sanctioned is less than about 20% of an entities business.
 
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Polot
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:36 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Planeyguy wrote:
Why do people think that EU would risk trade with the US over Iran? Airbus wouldn't sacrifice Delta and Frontier for Iranair. The same can be said for Boeing.


What about to make a point? "You can't run away a signed deal for no reason and then tell us with who we can o cant do business for no reasons". And no, Netanyahu's ppts are no reasons.

The thing is Iran is hardly universally popular outside the US. There are many in Europe who are in favor of a tougher stance against Iran...just like how there are many in the US that are in favor of a softer stance towards Iran. It is just not worth it and the governments know this. The people in both the US and Europe being layed off because of a pissing match between the two regions are not going to be happy because it is all alright, the EU is just “making a point” over airplanes to Iran of all places.

Believe it or not most people, and most countries, could not really care less if Iran is able to buy new planes or not.
 
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Polot
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:39 pm

airbazar wrote:
nikeherc wrote:
Does it make sense for Europe to cut off many billions of dollars of trade with the U.S. to express their anger over several billion dollars worth of airplanes for Iran?

It doesn't and they won't. However lets remember that the original sanctions were UN imposed while current sanctions will be U.S. imposed as I don't see the UN and Europe following along much like they've ignored the U.S. Cuba sanctions for decades. Iran is a little different than Cuba in that Iran actually has means to pay for things. So it will be very interesting to see how this evolves going forward.

As I mentioned before though when was the last time Cuba bought and took delivery of Airbuses? Countries pick and choose what to ignore. They ignore sanctions on things like tourism, or food. Aerospace is an entirely different story due to the US’s significant involvement in the industry.
 
bob75013
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:48 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Planeyguy wrote:
Why do people think that EU would risk trade with the US over Iran? Airbus wouldn't sacrifice Delta and Frontier for Iranair. The same can be said for Boeing.


What about to make a point? "You can't run away a signed deal for no reason and then tell us with who we can o cant do business for no reasons". And no, Netanyahu's ppts are no reasons.



People like you forget that the U.S. government did NOT agree to the deal. The president IS NOT the U.S. government. Obama signed the deal, but never asked congress to approve it. Why? Answer: because he knew that congress would NEVER approve it.

Treaties (to be legally enforceable on the U.S.) MUST BE APPROVED by the U.S. Congress. That never happened. Thus there was no "signed deal" to "run away " from.
 
mham001
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 3:52 pm

I can't read all of this but it is interesting how many here have come to believe that the Iran order is the make-or-break moment for either Airbus or Boeing. It isn't - they will shrug it off - have you seen their backlog? Unless one or both rushed into things too quickly and firmed up their plans but anybody with simple common sense would have waited to see how this very controversial agreement held up over time. I know I wouldn't have bet on it, there was a very good chance that Iran would kill it too before Rhouhani's re-election. Others however were frothing at the bit for the sake of their pocketbooks.

Iran abused the agreement in several ways and a hard ass was elected POTUS - any responsible executive should have seen this coming and planned accordingly.
 
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49Paralell
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 4:00 pm

Well, there is always Ilushyn Russian made. And why not?
 
Bricktop
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 4:00 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Planeyguy wrote:
Why do people think that EU would risk trade with the US over Iran? Airbus wouldn't sacrifice Delta and Frontier for Iranair. The same can be said for Boeing.


What about to make a point? "You can't run away a signed deal for no reason and then tell us with who we can o cant do business for no reasons". And no, Netanyahu's ppts are no reasons.

I guess there is still a sizable portion of the world who still haven't figured out how Trump negotiates, and I think a large percentage of them wouldn't care to give him the credit anyway.

First, as I said in deleted posts, he would not have had the opportunity to back out of the "deal" if his predecessor had done things differently. I will not get political as to his choices. Fact is, if it had received Congressional approval then Trump would have had a much harder time. What can be made by Presidential authority can be removed by Presidential authority. Democracy.

Now look at North Korea. Many Presidents have done the traditional State Department kissy-kissy diplomacy way of dealing with NK, and that didn't work. Oh pretty please, don't make a bomb, here's some money. Oh pretty please with sugar on it, don't fire ballistic missiles. Here's more money. Trump brought a different way, was mocked by the "traditional" media and the "politics as usual" crowd. "He's going to start a nuclear war" etc. etc. Wrong. They announce they are going to meet. "Ha Ha! NK is playing Trump! He can't even get 3 hostages released". Wrong again. Now they are released.

People in the US are starting to get woke to the fact that the professional political ruling classes IRRESPECTIVE OF PARTY and their lapdogs in the mainstream media are all the same crap. Not only that, they aren't particularly good at their jobs. Most businessmen, folks who have to make a payroll every week, can look at the way this government works and know that it's all a mess. And I bet it's the same everywhere in the world, including your (not you specifically Jayafe, I don't know where you're from) country. But as sure as eggs are eggs, that woke will spread.

Thing is, don't respond to the P-K4 (showing my age with that chess notation) opening that the press gets so freaking hysterical about all the time with this guy, until the news cycle changes. I know it's easy to mock him for some of his tweeting and a lot of it is cringeworthy, but look beyond that. In the US, we have gotten used to everything being filtered through the media. OK, it's not like Pravda in the bad old days, but now it's clear to see the spin that media puts on news.

It's a long game. Smart players play the long game. Look at the countries who do. It's a long game with China, it'll be a long game with Iran. Take a breath and look beyond the "Breaking News" from the "Situation Room". (Aside: Come on, can you get a MORE self-important moniker than that??)
Last edited by Bricktop on Wed May 09, 2018 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 4:02 pm

dz09 wrote:
there would be a setback for a little while but don't you think the US is capable of doing all that on its own? What other country on the planet can technically be 100% self sufficient? the point this adminstration is making is that the US has been pushed around for far too long and tthat they intend to correct bad deals made by previous administrations. I may be naive but I truly believe that this administration, with all its flaws, is serious about fighting for america's interests.

regarding the impact of this decision on the airlines industry, I still think Boeing will be fine. If Iran was interesed in using russian or chinesse sub-standard equipemnt they would have done it a long tinme ago. Moreover, I think people are paying way too much attention to Iran and its significance in the world stage. they are an insignificant player and the cacnellation of these orders will result in a very small dent in Boeing busnisess.

It won't be a setback for "a little while", it'll be a setback that will cause years of delays and billions of dollars of cost.

Boeing might not own the designs to some of the outsourced parts.

They won't have the tools to build any of the outsourced parts, and these tools are very customized, so it takes a lot of time and money to replace them.

Then the FAA needs to certify the manufacture of the parts, so a lot of testing has to happen.

Globalization has happened.

It isn't easy to undo.
Last edited by Revelation on Wed May 09, 2018 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
patineta89
Posts: 39
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 4:03 pm

Time for Russian air carriers to order 150 brand new planes from A and B and sell another 150 of their current fleets to Iran.
This kind of action only puts Iran closer to Russia and gives them extra motivation to continue developing their nuclear program sooner or later.

Of course, Iran can always decide to wait another 2 years for the next elected (or not) president of the US, who will probably come back into the deal.

The circus goes on.
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Revelation
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 4:18 pm

airbazar wrote:
It doesn't and they won't. However lets remember that the original sanctions were UN imposed while current sanctions will be U.S. imposed as I don't see the UN and Europe following along much like they've ignored the U.S. Cuba sanctions for decades. Iran is a little different than Cuba in that Iran actually has means to pay for things. So it will be very interesting to see how this evolves going forward.

That's not my understanding of this situation, based on what I heard on BBC this morning.

In essence the earlier agreement simply put the original sanctions on hold.

The US can pretty much unilaterally decide Iran is not in compliance and then the original sanctions are back in place.

And since the US hold veto power in the UN, there's not much others can do about it.

mham001 wrote:
I can't read all of this but it is interesting how many here have come to believe that the Iran order is the make-or-break moment for either Airbus or Boeing. It isn't - they will shrug it off - have you seen their backlog? Unless one or both rushed into things too quickly and firmed up their plans but anybody with simple common sense would have waited to see how this very controversial agreement held up over time. I know I wouldn't have bet on it, there was a very good chance that Iran would kill it too before Rhouhani's re-election. Others however were frothing at the bit for the sake of their pocketbooks.

Many are projecting that this will lead to a full blown trade war. Of course, that's just a projection at this point in time.

mham001 wrote:
Iran abused the agreement in several ways and a hard ass was elected POTUS - any responsible executive should have seen this coming and planned accordingly.

Unfortunately the evidence of abuse is not in the public doman and the US has a bad recent history (think WMD) to overcome.

Israeli intelligence reports are far from a impartial source.

It all might be "fake news" as far as most of the world knows.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
tommy1808
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 4:22 pm

Planeyguy wrote:
Why do people think that EU would risk trade with the US over Iran? .


Because they where perfectly willing to do the same over Cuba? Why do people think the EU would allow the US, or anyone else, to decide who EU companies can or can not sell their products too?

Revelation wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
The US government likes to think they can extend their laws outside its borders, but in fact they can´t.

The US is exerting control on US exports and access to the US financial system, which in fact it can.


Yup, they can. And the EU can and will retaliate if that impacts business, like they have proven before, with the US in the end backing off. The fun thing about burocracy is how much it sticks to principle without much care for reality.

I agree actions have consequences, and likely significant ones.
Strap yourselves in, this should be a heck of a ride.


In deed. Putin probably can't stop laughing. A likely significant result will be even more R&D funding for Technology the EU is not self sufficient in than there already is. The same way military development avoids content subject to US export approval whenever they expect a market in which they have to compete against US products or that is hit by US sanctions. Aircraft will probably be the next area of strategic importance to un-single source.
Well, at least Rolls Royce will see a sliver of light in this.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 4:40 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
A boost for Airbus and RR, if a country or airline already feels unloved by the USA.

Without reading the fine print, because the USA only is exiting a binding agreement, unilaterally decisions to re-impose embargoes may not carry the same weight and influence.

We live in interesting times.

The question is, would Trump be willing to punish US companies that sell parts to Airbus if Airbus continues to deliver aircraft to Iran? For example, Pratt & Whitney or General Electric.




For wide bodies, I see Rolls Royce as the standard. Narrow bodies might go via nefarious schemes. I would have sanctioned Mahan Air only as they’re confirmed to have been involved in the Syrian conflict.
 
SC430
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 4:46 pm

Jayafe wrote:
SC430 wrote:
...They didn't have the need nor the financing for 150 plus aircraft.


You should deeply review the population, current equipment, capabilities and needs of the country before jumping into such conclusions. You'll discover how different reality is than what you think.


Current equipment - a whopping 20 or so Airbus/Boeing's and a smattering of regional planes. Wow!!!
 
IranianMan123
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 5:22 pm

SC430 wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
SC430 wrote:
...They didn't have the need nor the financing for 150 plus aircraft.


You should deeply review the population, current equipment, capabilities and needs of the country before jumping into such conclusions. You'll discover how different reality is than what you think.


Current equipment - a whopping 20 or so Airbus/Boeing's and a smattering of regional planes. Wow!!!

Which is exactly why Iran Air made huge orders. Iran has a population of over 80 million, similar to Germany. Lufthansa have 282 aircraft and they are not the only airline in the country. Iran definitely has a need for more than 300 aircraft, at the very least.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 5:24 pm

I did read somewhere long ago that Iran Air could buy from a 2nd or 3rd party and the aircraft had to be some specific years old, can anyone tell me how many years old or some specifics in regards to this? They got the LH's A340 in regards to this and even Mahan Air got the A346, I just don't remember the whole thing correctly.
 
IranianMan123
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 5:28 pm

I think Iran Air should avoid ordering Russian aircraft for the next 2 years. They should see who wins the 2020 US election, then make a decision. If a Democrat wins, Im sure they will order Aircraft again from both Airbus and Boeing. However, if Trump wins, they will need to seriously consider Russian alternatives such as the MC-21 and SSJ 100.
 
airbazar
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 5:28 pm

Polot wrote:
airbazar wrote:
nikeherc wrote:
Does it make sense for Europe to cut off many billions of dollars of trade with the U.S. to express their anger over several billion dollars worth of airplanes for Iran?

It doesn't and they won't. However lets remember that the original sanctions were UN imposed while current sanctions will be U.S. imposed as I don't see the UN and Europe following along much like they've ignored the U.S. Cuba sanctions for decades. Iran is a little different than Cuba in that Iran actually has means to pay for things. So it will be very interesting to see how this evolves going forward.

As I mentioned before though when was the last time Cuba bought and took delivery of Airbuses?.

Cuba didn't have the means to buy airplanes and not allowing Cuba to develop a reliable airline favored the European/Canadian airlines who were more than happy to fill their own planes with passengers traveling to/from Cuba. This is why I said that it will be very interesting to see how this evolves going forward.
But the sanctions go far beyond buying airplanes. There was no shortage of global multinationals doing business in Cuba without being penalized by the U.S.
My guess is that everyone will cool down for a couple of years, let the child in the WH throw his temper tantrums and see what happens in the next election.
 
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Polot
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 5:38 pm

airbazar wrote:
Polot wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It doesn't and they won't. However lets remember that the original sanctions were UN imposed while current sanctions will be U.S. imposed as I don't see the UN and Europe following along much like they've ignored the U.S. Cuba sanctions for decades. Iran is a little different than Cuba in that Iran actually has means to pay for things. So it will be very interesting to see how this evolves going forward.

As I mentioned before though when was the last time Cuba bought and took delivery of Airbuses?.

Cuba didn't have the means to buy airplanes and not allowing Cuba to develop a reliable airline favored the European/Canadian airlines who were more than happy to fill their own planes with passengers traveling to/from Cuba. This is why I said that it will be very interesting to see how this evolves going forward.
But the sanctions go far beyond buying airplanes. There was no shortage of global multinationals doing business in Cuba without being penalized by the U.S.
My guess is that everyone will cool down for a couple of years, let the child in the WH throw his temper tantrums and see what happens in the next election.


I don’t think Cuba was so broke for so long that they could never afford any Airbuses, or get any help from Europe financing the planes if nobody in Europe had issues selling them planes. Your second argument about Europe benefitting from Cuba not being able to develop a reliable airline can easily be applied to Iran. Why would Europe like having strong European airline presence at Cuba at the expense of a weak Cubana but not enjoy the prospects of a strong European airline presence in Iran at the expense of a weak Iranair?
 
salttee
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:23 pm

49Paralell wrote:
Well, there is always Ilushyn Russian made. And why not?


Also, why can't Iran get by for the next 20 years or so with underpriced A 340s?
The cost of fuel shouldn't be a big deal for them.

I believe that's what I would do if I were in their shoes anyway.

Later there will be the Chinese aircraft coming onto the market.
 
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Polot
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Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:29 pm

salttee wrote:
49Paralell wrote:
Well, there is always Ilushyn Russian made. And why not?


Also, why can't Iran get by for the next 20 years or so with underpriced A 340s?
The cost of fuel shouldn't be a big deal for them.

I believe that's what I would do if I were in their shoes anyway.

Later there will be the Chinese aircraft coming onto the market.

The big issue is modern aircraft (including the A340) are much harder to maintain on your own with limited spare part and manufacturer support than older aircraft. Pesky electronics, computers, and what not. Makes things complicated.
 
salttee
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:34 pm

Are you saying that Airbus would not furnish A-340 parts or that CFM or Rolls wouldn't service their engines?
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 9559
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:34 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
CHICAGO - The delivery of the first of 80 new Boeing aircraft to Iran Air has been postponed. Initially, the first a/c, a Boeing 77W, would be delivered this spring. But because of political issue's, this will be in 2019 at the earliest.

Iran Air signed for 50 Boeing 737Max, 15 Boeing 777-300ER and 15 Boeing 777-9.


https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... we-boeings

Yesterday Maron - the President of France - said he believed the Trump administration will pull out of the Iran deal and thus will make it impossible to deliver these a/c at all. So what do you guys think, will Iran Air gets its fleet renewable at all?



Meet Iran Air's future regional workhorse:

Image

Well, maybe after the SSJ-100R comes out.

Meet Iran Air's future mainline workhorse:

Image

(The C919 has WAAAAAAY to many US Components)

/Putin says, "Thanks Trump!"


Well, Putin's investment paid of then :lol:

but seriously, they had the opportunity to buy Russian a long time ago and they didn't. Sure they will buy some SSJ's now, but believing that Russia will provide them with all they want is quite naive.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Polot
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:40 pm

salttee wrote:
Are you saying that Airbus would not furnish A-340 parts or that CFM or Rolls wouldn't service their engines?

If they can’t do business with Iran they can’t do business with Iran. IR has a very skilled technical and maintence department, that is how they have survived so long together with salvaging from other aircraft as much as possible. But it will harder with modern aircraft where the software and components to run it is just as important as the hardware.
 
leghorn
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:41 pm

Bricktop wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It's a hella long tantrum too, because Trump said in his Presidential campaign that he was going to do it. Kept a campaign promise.

Presidential Candidate making right noises for his targeted support groups.
I'll say this much for him; when he has been bought, he stays bought.

Keeping this on the subject of Aviation we all know that in 18 to 24 months the threads will be alive with stories of shoddy maintenance on ancient Iranian plans which have crashed with all souls on board lost. 1950s American cars may keep rolling the streets of Havana and are like cockroaches which can't be killed but Airplanes will eventually fall out of the sky.
 
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Polot
Posts: 9378
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:41 pm

Dutchy wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... we-boeings

Yesterday Maron - the President of France - said he believed the Trump administration will pull out of the Iran deal and thus will make it impossible to deliver these a/c at all. So what do you guys think, will Iran Air gets its fleet renewable at all?



Meet Iran Air's future regional workhorse:

Image

Well, maybe after the SSJ-100R comes out.

Meet Iran Air's future mainline workhorse:

Image

(The C919 has WAAAAAAY to many US Components)

/Putin says, "Thanks Trump!"


Well, Putin's investment paid of then :lol:

but seriously, they had the opportunity to buy Russian a long time ago and they didn't. Sure they will buy some SSJ's now, but believing that Russia will provide them with all they want is quite naive.

IIRC don’t Russian aircraft have kind of a poor reputation in Iran? I think that has been a major stumbling block that has stopped IR and others from turning to Russia. They like their Airbuses and Boeings and take pride in them.
Last edited by Polot on Wed May 09, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 9559
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:46 pm

Polot wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Well, Putin's investment paid of then :lol:

but seriously, they had the opportunity to buy Russian a long time ago and they didn't. Sure they will buy some SSJ's now, but believing that Russia will provide them with all they want is quite naive.

IIRC don’t Russian aircraft have kind of a poor reputation in Iran? I think that has been a major stumbling block that has stopped IR and others from turning to Russia. They like their Airbuses and Boeings and take pride in them.


I guess so. Wasn't there a deal to produce An148 in Iran, which failed horribly? I seem to remember something like that, but to lazy to look it up.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1375
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:54 pm

leghorn wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It's a hella long tantrum too, because Trump said in his Presidential campaign that he was going to do it. Kept a campaign promise.

Presidential Candidate making right noises for his targeted support groups.
I'll say this much for him; when he has been bought, he stays bought.

Keeping this on the subject of Aviation we all know that in 18 to 24 months the threads will be alive with stories of shoddy maintenance on ancient Iranian plans which have crashed with all souls on board lost. 1950s American cars may keep rolling the streets of Havana and are like cockroaches which can't be killed but Airplanes will eventually fall out of the sky.

Ahh, I see. Those who you agree with are "principled" when they do what they say they would do. Trump "stays bought". By who? The Russians? I thought that was the narrative. After all, there's a big investigation. No? Must be those good friends of the Russians, Israel and Saudi Arabia! I guess the reason it's hard to keep the Crazy straight is that it's well, crazy.

As for your other assertion of planes falling out of the sky, I certainly hope not. I hope you agree.
 
leghorn
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 6:59 pm

Bricktop wrote:
planes falling out of the sky, I certainly hope not. I hope you agree.

You know that in time old planes will run out of cycles, run out of parts and crash. You wish to present it as not being likely as the implications of his actions don't reflect well on him. They are the actions of a psychopath.
He might as well be selecting a random date in the next few years, then lining 130 to 150 random PEOPLE in Iran up against a wall and shooting them by firing squad.
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 7:09 pm

Some delightful comments on here.

Anyway, yes, Iranians don't traditionally like Russian built planes, but that was down to a series of Tu154 crashes and some locally built IR-AN140s crashing. If they cant get any new Airbus or Boeings I'd love to see a large order for the Superjet. The long range varients can cover quite a bit of their current and planned network..just not Western/Northern Europe
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1375
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 7:18 pm

leghorn wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
planes falling out of the sky, I certainly hope not. I hope you agree.

You know that in time old planes will run out of cycles, run out of parts and crash. You wish to present it as not being likely as the implications of his actions don't reflect well on him. They are the actions of a psychopath.
He might as well be selecting a random date in the next few years, then lining 130 to 150 random PEOPLE in Iran up against a wall and shooting them by firing squad.

Now you're just being silly. :roll:

Let's stop freaking out and not start deciding how the game's going to end after P-K4.
 
leghorn
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 7:20 pm

Bricktop wrote:
leghorn wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
planes falling out of the sky, I certainly hope not. I hope you agree.

You know that in time old planes will run out of cycles, run out of parts and crash. You wish to present it as not being likely as the implications of his actions don't reflect well on him. They are the actions of a psychopath.
He might as well be selecting a random date in the next few years, then lining 130 to 150 random PEOPLE in Iran up against a wall and shooting them by firing squad.

Now you're just being silly. :roll:

Let's stop freaking out and not start deciding how the game's going to end after P-K4.

You do know what the acronym MTBF stands for and would you care to explain how it doesn't apply to these ancient Iranian planes.
Either they keep flying unairworthy planes or they starting using buses to get from one side of the country to the other.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 7:21 pm

leghorn wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
leghorn wrote:
You know that in time old planes will run out of cycles, run out of parts and crash. You wish to present it as not being likely as the implications of his actions don't reflect well on him. They are the actions of a psychopath.
He might as well be selecting a random date in the next few years, then lining 130 to 150 random PEOPLE in Iran up against a wall and shooting them by firing squad.

Now you're just being silly. :roll:

Let's stop freaking out and not start deciding how the game's going to end after P-K4.

You do know what the acronym MTBF stands for and would you care to explain how it doesn't apply to these ancient Iranian planes.
Either they keep flying unairworthy planes or they starting using buses to get from one side of the country to the other.


That's it? That's the only two options? There's nothing else that can take place to provide them with new-builds? Nothing?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
sas931
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:55 pm

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 7:29 pm

No sales of Boeing aircrafts to Iran is also equal to job cuts at Boeing and the suppliers of aircraft parts to both Airbus and Boeing...and who can they thank for that.....The dictator in Washington
 
leghorn
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 7:30 pm

Well there aren't superjets until re-engineered to be lest western. An148 won't work as they're not being built. no modern turboprop will work as they are all powered by p&Wso what does that leave other than worn out secondhand planes which they can't get spares for.
If it was so easy to get quality planes by other avenues they'd have had them already.
Maybe I've misunderstood and the other option you are thinking of is Iranian Hyperloop
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9378
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 7:34 pm

sas931 wrote:
No sales of Boeing aircrafts to Iran is also equal to job cuts at Boeing and the suppliers of aircraft parts to both Airbus and Boeing...and who can they thank for that.....The dictator in Washington

Iran is not that important to Boeing, Airbus, or their suppliers-they won’t actually be cutting jobs because of the lack of sales to Iran. Iran is a good size market with a lot of current pent up demand, but we are talking 200-300 planes max (across all different sizes, that would be split between Airbus and Boeing).

That is a drop in the bucket for both Boeing and Airbus.
 
salttee
Posts: 3149
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Iran - Boeing deal

Wed May 09, 2018 7:44 pm

Polot wrote:
If they can’t do business with Iran they can’t do business with Iran. IR has a very skilled technical and maintence department, that is how they have survived so long together with salvaging from other aircraft as much as possible. But it will harder with modern aircraft where the software and components to run it is just as important as the hardware.
Pardon me for being a pest, but I don't think Airbus is prohibited from doing business with Iran, they are prohibited from transferring US technology to Iran. If the Europeans are willing to support Iran's used aircraft, that's none of our business.

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