It seems that Emirayes has started storing some A380 aircraft at DWC. The first aircraft that has left for storage is A6-EDB.

Pilot shortage is biting the A380 fleet.

Isn't the plane the right age for heavy maintenance? As an early delivery, is this a frame with Catia issues?

EDA has some stop clock time, so it will go later as it would be prettied up for new route launches (it has fewer seats by the bar to sell the A380 experience to press/bloggers).

They could just have flown it there for short-term storage awaiting hanger space to become available at DXB for a major check.

11 777s and 1 380 this month, it will be 14 777s and 6 A380s next month, 11 777s and 3 A380s in June.

zeke wrote:

11 777s and 1 380 this month, it will be 14 777s and 6 A380s next month, 11 777s and 3 A380s in June.

What route segments are being cut out or cut back as a result of this?

Or are other fleets able to pick up the slack?

The latter option seems tough given they're parking both Boeing and Airbus jets, making me wonder if neither 'side' can pick up much of the other's flying. ?

goboeing wrote:

zeke wrote:

11 777s and 1 380 this month, it will be 14 777s and 6 A380s next month, 11 777s and 3 A380s in June.

What route segments are being cut out or cut back as a result of this?

Or are other fleets able to pick up the slack?

The latter option seems tough given they're parking both Boeing and Airbus jets, making me wonder if neither 'side' can pick up much of the other's flying. ?

They have already announced cuts across the network including reduced frequencies to BKG LHR, and their Florida flights. Keep in mind next month is Ramadan when demand from their local market and the rest of the middle east drops significantly.

zeke wrote:

11 777s and 1 380 this month, it will be 14 777s and 6 A380s next month, 11 777s and 3 A380s in June.

Somebody in management will have to start answering questions sooner rather than later...

Do we really need another thread on this topic? There are 99 inconclusive threads on this topic.

Jayafe wrote:

zeke wrote:

11 777s and 1 380 this month, it will be 14 777s and 6 A380s next month, 11 777s and 3 A380s in June.

Somebody in management will have to start answering questions sooner rather than later...

Read the post from Perfect Griffin.

Ramadan, the muslim month of fasting starts mid-May, a little over 2 weeks from now.

We see a 15-20% reduction in travel over the period.

Too many people on Anet seem only too pleased when the ME3 have the slightest reduction to their flying programme. And jump to wrong conclusions.

One post suggests the planes are being parked due to a pilot storage, another says Ramadan is to blame, which suggests a temporary situation. Which is it? Is it both? Has Emirates not explained the reasoning behind parking the jets?

JAAlbert wrote:

One post suggests the planes are being parked due to a pilot storage, another says Ramadan is to blame, which suggests a temporary situation. Which is it? Is it both? Has Emirates not explained the reasoning behind parking the jets?

It’s probably both, Emirates adjusts it fleet requirements as it needs. I don’t see why people are so concerned.
It makes a profit and is a fantastic airline to fly on and if the travelling public get cheaper quality flights then all well and good. I think the the main reason people keep going on about it and wanting them to fail is envy because they can’t compete. I’ve worked in their engineering center and most airlines could only dream of something like it

When AI parked its 77Ls because oil was $100+/BBL, no viable ULH routes at that ATF cost and going thru financial crisis (or) when its 787 was grounded because its engines need early overhauls or VT-ANI needed wing box repair, A.Net(including moderators) argued that every parked frame is a wasted asset and loss of revenue.

Now from pilot shortage to maintenance to religious fasting are valid excuses to ground planes.

One WB costs $1M/per month for lease/finance+mx contracts+insurance. 10 grounded WBs mean 10MM/per month or $120MM/year wasted assets, not including loss of revenue.

Someone care to explain how this is a well-run business.

Many of the A380's in and around the 10 year mark are going to incur excess hours penalties unless rested.

I've been on this aircraft a few times when it's had technical issues.

If seasonally lower activity, crew shortages, EmiratesDriver's ongoing stories of serious EK issues (negative crew, over work, low morale, compromised safety) are putting customers off, this aircraft would be a prime candidate for a holiday.

dtw2hyd wrote:

When AI parked its 77Ls because oil was $100+/BBL, no viable ULH routes at that ATF cost and going thru financial crisis (or) when its 787 was grounded because its engines need early overhauls or VT-ANI needed wing box repair, A.Net(including moderators) argued that every parked frame is a wasted asset and loss of revenue.

Now from pilot shortage to maintenance to religious fasting are valid excuses to ground planes.

One WB costs $1M/per month for lease/finance+mx contracts+insurance. 10 grounded WBs mean 10MM/per month or $120MM/year wasted assets, not including loss of revenue.

Someone care to explain how this is a well-run business.

And running an empty plane around the world doesn't cost anything? Sounds sensible to me.

As for Air India, they'd probably be better off not flying planes around too.

How many planes did EK park for Ramadan last year?

I mean if that is the reason the % (out of the total fleet) should be fairly consistent, unless EK is more profit focused this year than last.

dtw2hyd wrote:

When AI parked its 77Ls because oil was $100+/BBL, no viable ULH routes at that ATF cost and going thru financial crisis (or) when its 787 was grounded because its engines need early overhauls or VT-ANI needed wing box repair, A.Net(including moderators) argued that every parked frame is a wasted asset and loss of revenue.

Now from pilot shortage to maintenance to religious fasting are valid excuses to ground planes.

One WB costs $1M/per month for lease/finance+mx contracts+insurance. 10 grounded WBs mean 10MM/per month or $120MM/year wasted assets, not including loss of revenue.

Someone care to explain how this is a well-run business.

Of course, your default anti-ME3 position carefully ignores the actual realities of leased aircraft where airlines carefully manage their utilisation to avoid increased costs for breaching the terms of the lease. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of our agenda.

dtw2hyd wrote:

One WB costs $1M/per month for lease/finance+mx contracts+insurance. 10 grounded WBs mean 10MM/per month or $120MM/year wasted assets, not including loss of revenue.

Someone care to explain how this is a well-run business.

I am happy you don’t own an airline as it’s obvious you understand nothing about business, as you well have just said.

Because those costs are fixed, you ll have em you fly or not. If you add crew + fuel + landing/take off/transition fees + cycles to the frame (depreciation+terms of lease), sometimes numbers say that is more affordable to park than to fly em. Happens to EK, and also to many other airlines around the globe. Best example could be European carriers specialists in leisure travelling parking frames during winter.
It’s simply better to lose 1M per month than 2M, in such circumstances.

Suspicious thing though that we only hear about your claims when certain ME airlines are involved. Why would that be?

TC957 wrote:

Too many people on Anet seem only too pleased when the ME3 have the slightest reduction to their flying programme. And jump to wrong conclusions.

Replace the bold/underlined text above with any given topic and you'll have every thread on a.net.

Jayafe wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

One WB costs $1M/per month for lease/finance+mx contracts+insurance. 10 grounded WBs mean 10MM/per month or $120MM/year wasted assets, not including loss of revenue.

Someone care to explain how this is a well-run business.

I am happy you don’t own an airline as it’s obvious you understand nothing about business, as you well have just said.

Because those costs are fixed, you ll have em you fly or not. If you add crew + fuel + landing/take off/transition fees + cycles to the frame (depreciation+terms of lease), sometimes numbers say that is more affordable to park than to fly em. Happens to EK, and also to many other airlines around the globe. Best example could be European carriers specialists in leisure travelling parking frames during winter.
It’s simply better to lose 1M per month than 2M, in such circumstances.

Suspicious thing though that we only hear about your claims when certain ME airlines are involved. Why would that be?

Kinda like the way you open your trap every time you can dig at the US3? What's the matter, someone working your side of the street?

TheFlyingRaven wrote:

...
And running an empty plane around the world doesn't cost anything? Sounds sensible to me.

As for Air India, they'd probably be better off not flying planes around too.

Timmy hardly achieved a fleet-wide load factor of 75%.

Looking at USDOT data with the exception of SFO (79%) all other US stations' annual average load factor was below 76%. Still happily flying empty planes. AI doing far better than that.

Like other member asked, are there 12 MH or 9 ULH routes canceled during the religious season to justify 12 AOGs.

AFAIK, there is only a restriction on diet during daytime and absolutely no restriction on travel. Is there any excuse out of EK PR's reach, including ...

PlanesNTrains wrote:

TC957 wrote:

Too many people on Anet seem only too pleased when the ME3 have the slightest reduction to their flying programme. And jump to wrong conclusions.

Replace the bold/underlined text above with any given topic and you'll have every thread on a.net.

Except of course I’ve been saying this for over a year, and no one wants to hear the truth or reality.
Yes there is a minor element of Ramadan, but as I’ve stated previously, EK are fast running out of A380 flying hours for their crews.
Another thing worth considering is that it’s “summer resignation time” here at EK, thus far about 100 pilots have handed their notice in the last 5 weeks, including 7 in one day.

Jayafe wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

One WB costs $1M/per month for lease/finance+mx contracts+insurance. 10 grounded WBs mean 10MM/per month or $120MM/year wasted assets, not including loss of revenue.

Someone care to explain how this is a well-run business.

I am happy you don’t own an airline as it’s obvious you understand nothing about business, as you well have just said.

Because those costs are fixed, you ll have em you fly or not. If you add crew + fuel + landing/take off/transition fees + cycles to the frame (depreciation+terms of lease), sometimes numbers say that is more affordable to park than to fly em. Happens to EK, and also to many other airlines around the globe. Best example could be European carriers specialists in leisure travelling parking frames during winter.
It’s simply better to lose 1M per month than 2M, in such circumstances.

Suspicious thing though that we only hear about your claims when certain ME airlines are involved. Why would that be?

If EK cares about preserving values, send those for storage, or at least remove engines/avionics/removable control surfaces to properly store the aircraft. Why hire a couple of guys to tug them around DXB, in and out hangers and ferry to DWC and back. Just to give an impression they are active.

dtw2hyd wrote:

When AI parked its 77Ls because oil was $100+/BBL, no viable ULH routes at that ATF cost and going thru financial crisis (or) when its 787 was grounded because its engines need early overhauls or VT-ANI needed wing box repair, A.Net(including moderators) argued that every parked frame is a wasted asset and loss of revenue.

Now from pilot shortage to maintenance to religious fasting are valid excuses to ground planes.

One WB costs $1M/per month for lease/finance+mx contracts+insurance. 10 grounded WBs mean 10MM/per month or $120MM/year wasted assets, not including loss of revenue.

Someone care to explain how this is a well-run business.

none of the US3 were well run businesses
all got Handouts from the Government

very few airlines are actually private corporations that actually have to compete
NH/CX/QF/Ryanair/Easyjet

Most know their own governments will save them

Jayafe wrote:

zeke wrote:

11 777s and 1 380 this month, it will be 14 777s and 6 A380s next month, 11 777s and 3 A380s in June.

Somebody in management will have to start answering questions sooner rather than later...

Cathay parked nearly 40% of its fleet in 2003 and still made a profit....
EK will be just fine

Title totally misleading as this is not an Airbus or an A380 issue. Please change it!

EK has 100+ A380's and nearly 150 777's. As such we are witnessing 5℅ of the airlines fleet being temporarily stored.

If we consider airlines like QF use one one of their twelve or 8℅ of the A380' fleet as an operational spare we have some perspective on the situation.

If we also consider EK typically have higher daily operational rates (I.e. 14 hour/day utilisation instead of 13 hour/day utilisation) we have even more perspective on the situation.

For me the question revolves around pilot shortages and not aircraft utilisation.

JayBCNLON wrote:

Title totally misleading as this is not an Airbus or an A380 issue. Please change it!

What the ? I can't see how there's an Airbus or A380 issue intimated.

The title "Emirates starts storing the A380" is beyond misleading because it also includes 777 etc.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Jayafe wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

One WB costs $1M/per month for lease/finance+mx contracts+insurance. 10 grounded WBs mean 10MM/per month or $120MM/year wasted assets, not including loss of revenue.

Someone care to explain how this is a well-run business.

I am happy you don’t own an airline as it’s obvious you understand nothing about business, as you well have just said.

Because those costs are fixed, you ll have em you fly or not. If you add crew + fuel + landing/take off/transition fees + cycles to the frame (depreciation+terms of lease), sometimes numbers say that is more affordable to park than to fly em. Happens to EK, and also to many other airlines around the globe. Best example could be European carriers specialists in leisure travelling parking frames during winter.
It’s simply better to lose 1M per month than 2M, in such circumstances.

Suspicious thing though that we only hear about your claims when certain ME airlines are involved. Why would that be?

If EK cares about preserving values, send those for storage, or at least remove engines/avionics/removable control surfaces to properly store the aircraft. Why hire a couple of guys to tug them around DXB, in and out hangers and ferry to DWC and back. Just to give an impression they are active.

Because it’s not worth the time to remove avionics, tag them as serviceable, find a place to store the avionics, allocate 4 spare engine stands, remove 4 serviceable engines only for them to go back on wing in a short time. Heaven forbid EK needs a spare aircraft because one of their aircraft needs a “wing box repair”. Now you have to spend 7 days to put all 4 engines back up and make sure you don’t have any holes in the aircraft from the robbed avionics.
Your idea makes about as much sense as the decisions made at Air India.

RalXWB wrote:

The title "Emirates starts storing the A380" is beyond misleading because it also includes 777 etc.

Because the 777s were already being stored before this and therefore the A380s being stored is news

RalXWB wrote:

The title "Emirates starts storing the A380" is beyond misleading because it also includes 777 etc.

Seriously it's an aeroplane not a football team. It's metal with some engines.

Give me a break.

emiratesdriver wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

TC957 wrote:

Too many people on Anet seem only too pleased when the ME3 have the slightest reduction to their flying programme. And jump to wrong conclusions.

Replace the bold/underlined text above with any given topic and you'll have every thread on a.net.

Except of course I’ve been saying this for over a year, and no one wants to hear the truth or reality.
Yes there is a minor element of Ramadan, but as I’ve stated previously, EK are fast running out of A380 flying hours for their crews.
Another thing worth considering is that it’s “summer resignation time” here at EK, thus far about 100 pilots have handed their notice in the last 5 weeks, including 7 in one day.

Is this a mix of pilot skills or just one type, a 100 in 35 days, where are they all going to?

Readytotaxi, to be honest I can only speak for the people I know and of those leaving, planning to leave or already gone, its a fairly even spread of 380 and 777. Predominantly lately it’s been Captains leaving as EK have instituted 5 year bonds for FOs in an attempt to stem the flow, unfortunately when you have a local culture dominated by hubris and arrogance the upshot is when people get fed up their only recourse is to leave as the mindset inside the management bubble is all about how lazy and ungrateful most pilots are.
As to where they are going? Plenty of QF LWOP pilots have pulled the plug, a good many 3yrs and 1 day after they joined, the contract was based on a 3 year bond, Ryanair are taking plenty including many former employees, they were back in Dubai last week doing more sim assessments as they couldn’t fit all of them in earlier in the month! Jet2, Easy, BA, UPS, AA, a few to Delta I’ve heard and of course many many more besides.
Make no mistake, EK is in deep doggie do regarding pilots, no amount of PR or fanboy comments on here deriding my agenda or falsehoods as they’ve been called can hide the resting airframes or the pilots maxing out hours after 10 months with no leave.

Profits up 106% vs last year (first half/ fiscal) , they must be in trouble! That must be why all these planes are being parked. Or wait,........ lots of issues perhaps being well or at least better managed? We´ll see.

bourbon wrote:

...
Because it’s not worth the time to remove avionics, tag them as serviceable, find a place to store the avionics, allocate 4 spare engine stands, remove 4 serviceable engines only for them to go back on wing in a short time. Heaven forbid EK needs a spare aircraft because one of their aircraft needs a “wing box repair”. Now you have to spend 7 days to put all 4 engines back up and make sure you don’t have any holes in the aircraft from the robbed avionics.
Your idea makes about as much sense as the decisions made at Air India.

Your argument is not valid for an airline with average 25% ASKMs unfilled, on an average 10 frames virtually grounded every month, and more deliveries on the way.

There is so much surplus in the system either they should be returning planes to lessors, or stop taking deliveries. Virtual usage may be good for brand image, but not to bottom line. Oh wait, it lost 12% of even that.

Kashmon wrote:

Jayafe wrote:

zeke wrote:

11 777s and 1 380 this month, it will be 14 777s and 6 A380s next month, 11 777s and 3 A380s in June.

Somebody in management will have to start answering questions sooner rather than later...

Cathay parked nearly 40% of its fleet in 2003 and still made a profit....
EK will be just fine

This must hurt the bottom line though. That is a large amount of capacity unused, thus costing money instead of making it. So what is Emirates going to do? Going to give their pilots better working conditions?

I arrived int EWR from FRA on United on Monday and while I didn't make a count there seemed to be at least 8-10 wide bodies (mostly 763/4 but a few 772's) and I thought that was unusual. Time was around 145pm EST when I would have thought most would be in-bound from Europe, but maybe they had already arrived and were just awaiting the evening bank of wide bodies to Europe that night? Just appeared to be a lot of inactive wide bodies, when in reality maybe this is just the way UA routes the daily fleet in Europe? EK is a well run airline so I am sure they know what they are doing too!!

I counted 21 planes parked at DL's Atlanta hangar a few months ago (during the day), including 2 777s and 1 767, does that mean Delta is hurting?

(and fwiw, most Delta planes being used or staged for future flights park on the north side of the airport, not necessarily over at tech ops)

We had a similar discussion here on airliners.net last year on 28th April, 2017 about EK aircraft stored on the ground.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1361741

This is a lean period of the year for EK.Things begin to pick by mid May. I remember seeing several parked A380s in DXB and 777s in DWC last year. This is not a new trend during this time of the year.

I am wondering there was another link of discussions here last year same topic.

So Ryanair store planes over the winter and they're making a smart business decision due to demand. Emirates effectively do the same and they're going down the pan?

RalXWB wrote:

The title "Emirates starts storing the A380" is beyond misleading because it also includes 777 etc.

Usual A380 possible bad story glee I'm afraid!

cougar15 wrote:

Profits up 106% vs last year (first half/ fiscal) , they must be in trouble! That must be why all these planes are being parked. Or wait,........ lots of issues perhaps being well or at least better managed? We´ll see.

EI makes profits when everyone else flies at a loss. In IIRC 2009, the competition was hurting and short of funds just as EK turned on the expansion.

Preserving funds to expand is smart.

EK has always deferred early in a downturn and ordered early at the cheapest rates at the start of an expansion.

At some point they will be wrong. By 5% of a fleet? Oh... Panic.

Lightsaber

emiratesdriver wrote:

Readytotaxi, to be honest I can only speak for the people I know and of those leaving, planning to leave or already gone, its a fairly even spread of 380 and 777. Predominantly lately it’s been Captains leaving as EK have instituted 5 year bonds for FOs in an attempt to stem the flow, unfortunately when you have a local culture dominated by hubris and arrogance the upshot is when people get fed up their only recourse is to leave as the mindset inside the management bubble is all about how lazy and ungrateful most pilots are.
As to where they are going? Plenty of QF LWOP pilots have pulled the plug, a good many 3yrs and 1 day after they joined, the contract was based on a 3 year bond, Ryanair are taking plenty including many former employees, they were back in Dubai last week doing more sim assessments as they couldn’t fit all of them in earlier in the month! Jet2, Easy, BA, UPS, AA, a few to Delta I’ve heard and of course many many more besides.
Make no mistake, EK is in deep doggie do regarding pilots, no amount of PR or fanboy comments on here deriding my agenda or falsehoods as they’ve been called can hide the resting airframes or the pilots maxing out hours after 10 months with no leave.

What puzzles me is why you're still flying for them.

dtw2hyd wrote:

If EK cares about preserving values, send those for storage, or at least remove engines/avionics/removable control surfaces to properly store the aircraft. Why hire a couple of guys to tug them around DXB, in and out hangers and ferry to DWC and back. Just to give an impression they are active.

They are clearly not active, and you are the only one making up an impression of what they are doing, why, and how bad it is for their own business. Total nonsense tbh.

Arion640 wrote:

emiratesdriver wrote:

Readytotaxi, to be honest I can only speak for the people I know and of those leaving, planning to leave or already gone, its a fairly even spread of 380 and 777. Predominantly lately it’s been Captains leaving as EK have instituted 5 year bonds for FOs in an attempt to stem the flow, unfortunately when you have a local culture dominated by hubris and arrogance the upshot is when people get fed up their only recourse is to leave as the mindset inside the management bubble is all about how lazy and ungrateful most pilots are.
As to where they are going? Plenty of QF LWOP pilots have pulled the plug, a good many 3yrs and 1 day after they joined, the contract was based on a 3 year bond, Ryanair are taking plenty including many former employees, they were back in Dubai last week doing more sim assessments as they couldn’t fit all of them in earlier in the month! Jet2, Easy, BA, UPS, AA, a few to Delta I’ve heard and of course many many more besides.
Make no mistake, EK is in deep doggie do regarding pilots, no amount of PR or fanboy comments on here deriding my agenda or falsehoods as they’ve been called can hide the resting airframes or the pilots maxing out hours after 10 months with no leave.

What puzzles me is why you're still flying for them.

Not long. Given 3 year bond, and previous posts, less than a year before 'ex' appears in front of posts (for example, see below, my emphasis):

Lastly, why the hate? Most of it comes from current or former employees, that should give you an idea of the environment which from a pilots perspective means MANY OF US ARE IN THE ADVANCED STAGES OF OUR EXIT PLANS.

Jayafe wrote:

Somebody in management will have to start answering questions sooner rather than later...

It’s a lower demand time of year across many airlines

The second A380, A6-EOO, has headed for storage.

xwb777 wrote:

The second A380, A6-EOO, has headed for storage.

OK, and apart from ´thread bump´, the reason is....... ? Can you give us more detail please? Thank you!

So how does this tie in with the numerous thread claims over the years that EK would be operating close to 200 A380's and that new purchases were for replacement as well as expansion.