stratocruiser
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 9:45 am

I don't understand why foreign airlines even bother flying there!
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 9:56 am

stratocruiser wrote:
I don't understand why foreign airlines even bother flying there!

Had you bothered to read through the thread, you would understand. They make TONS of money flying there...at least most of them.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 10:05 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Plus Ultra is starting soon flights from MAD to CCS via TFN. Could they refuel in TFN and make TFN-CCS-TFN in one go?

No way. CCS-TFN is a 7-8 flight, minimum. Between getting to an alternate and reserve fuel, you need at least 10 hours worth of fuel. No way you can safely land with that onboard when getting to Caracas. And those clapped-out poor A343s can't even hold that much fuel (roughly18 hours worth for TFN-CCS-TFN) to begin with. Also, the plan was to fly a single one of the 3 or 4 weekly flights via TFN. I think a more relevant question is: will they even bother flying to CCS, with this new requirement?
 
jetskipper
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 11:20 am

So other than a tech stop what options does AA have?
 
rbavfan
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 11:20 am

Rdh3e wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
IB and TK could just fly their triangle routes in reverse. IB now flies MAD-SDQ-CCS-MAD and TK currently flies IST-HAV-CCS-IST. In contrast, TP already flies LIS-CCS-CUR-LIS. (Maybe this is a reflection of TP's vast experience of operations into insecure and unstable destinations in Africa?)


I'm not an expert but I'd think you would want the CCS leg to be the last leg of the trip. The longer leg is more likely to have an unpredictable fuel requirement so you could be left with a less than a desirable amount of fuel for the flight departing CCS. You'd also then be tankering fuel on a long-haul flight which is much more expensive than the short haul.

Those together I think it's more likely they'd go Europe-Intermediate Stop-Venezuala-Europ.



Also west bound flight uses more fuel than eastbound.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 11:38 am

jetskipper wrote:
So other than a tech stop what options does AA have?

It's been detailed further upthread, but basically:
1) Tanker fuel to make it back to MIA.
2) Combine CCS and MAR with another destination. So, not just a tech stop, but a triangle route.
3) Leave Venezuela.
 
jetskipper
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 11:56 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
So other than a tech stop what options does AA have?

It's been detailed further upthread, but basically:
1) Tanker fuel to make it back to MIA.
2) Combine CCS and MAR with another destination. So, not just a tech stop, but a triangle route.
3) Leave Venezuela.


With the tanker option you would also have to upgauge all flights to a 757 or larger. A 737 landing with enough fuel for a 3:45 block return flight would take such a weight penalty to be below max gross landing weight at CCS that it would no longer make sense economically for the southbound flight.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 12:22 pm

jetskipper wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
So other than a tech stop what options does AA have?

It's been detailed further upthread, but basically:
1) Tanker fuel to make it back to MIA.
2) Combine CCS and MAR with another destination. So, not just a tech stop, but a triangle route.
3) Leave Venezuela.


With the tanker option you would also have to upgauge all flights to a 757 or larger. A 737 landing with enough fuel for a 3:45 block return flight would take such a weight penalty to be below max gross landing weight at CCS that it would no longer make sense economically for the southbound flight.

Well, the market would do great with all flights being on 757s. The demand is there, with great yields
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 12:49 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
So other than a tech stop what options does AA have?

It's been detailed further upthread, but basically:
1) Tanker fuel to make it back to MIA.
2) Combine CCS and MAR with another destination. So, not just a tech stop, but a triangle route.
3) Leave Venezuela.

I think 2 and because costs are raised there will be some frequency reduction.

Lightsaber
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MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 1:14 pm

lightsaber wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
So other than a tech stop what options does AA have?

It's been detailed further upthread, but basically:
1) Tanker fuel to make it back to MIA.
2) Combine CCS and MAR with another destination. So, not just a tech stop, but a triangle route.
3) Leave Venezuela.

I think 2 and because costs are raised there will be some frequency reduction.

Lightsaber

I doubt there would be a frequency reduction. Those flights are always full, so the problem would be to accommodate the passengers to/from that other destination. A destination that almost certainly would be much more low-yielding than CCS or MAR. Even if flights are upgraded to 757s, that is only a 10% increase in seats compared to a 738. And some flights are already on the 757...
 
devron
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 1:53 pm

Ridiculous normally any logical thinking goverment would give in, but eh.... some airlines will cope with this (i.e. give in, add an extra stop, or put in more in the tank) others will give up.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 1:55 pm

Just struck me...knowing the twisted logic of the d**khead in charge in Caracas, they will soon demand payments for landing fees, ATC fees and overflight fees as well in Petros. That will really screw AA over in Venezuela, since they can't pay in Petros, even if they wanted to. It will be a scenario similar to what happened with Panama. The US will answer with reciprocally cancelling traffic rights for Venezuelan airlines into the US. Bad press and public outcry will follow in Venezuela, and Dickolas will then ask for talks with "Presithen Tron", hoping he can negotiate the sanctions away, which will, of course, be even more fruitless an attempt than the one with Panama.
 
2175301
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 2:46 pm

Another option is a version of the Tanker fuel option. Literally fly a cargo aircraft their with a cargo of fuel that is used to at least partially refuel the other AA aircraft (I can see 375 gallon totes of jet fuel - if they do not use a round tank). AA could use a charter company to do this - and the charter company could pay for it's own cost in Petros if required. Not neccesarily the cheapest option. but an option that might be affordable and still allow them to make a profit. How much fuel would have to be added to a 757 to ensure a safe return trip without making a triangle route?

Have a great day,
 
B777LRF
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 3:00 pm

A 757 burns, in very rough numbers, around 7 tons the first hour and then 3,5 tons per hour after that. For a 4-hour flight that's a total of around 18 tons. To operate within legal limits, you're looking at a fuel requirement of around 21-23 tons out of CCS.

The OEW of a 757 is around 60 tons, and MLW is around 90. Payload (185 pax, no cargo) is around 18 tons. In other words, you can 'only' tanker around 12 tons and stay below MLW, and that's having dumped all cargo. Add 4 tons of cargo, and you're looking at 8 tons. And that, ladies and gentlemen, should firmly lay to bed the idea of tankering a 757 to replace a 737 as a viable option.

The realistic options are either a tech-stop on the way down, or tanker what you can and tech-stop on the way back.
Signature. You just read one.
 
mabadia71
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 4:05 pm

I was wondering couldn't the airlines "buy" the fuel from a 3rd Venezuelan entity. I mean AA "buys" it from some Venezuelan company (and they pay this company with USD or Bolivares) and this company buys it in petros from the government. Can this be done?
mabadia71
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 4:32 pm

A lot of talk in this thread about AA and others minting money in Venezuela.

Are there statistics to show whether these flights are full in only one direction? ie: CCS - MIA? Do a lot of folks head TO Venezuela in these times?
Vahroone
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 4:41 pm

Doesn't AA have wide-bodies at MIA tarmac between South American flights?
An AA wide-body could well fly MIA-CCS-MIA rotation daytime without the need to re-fuel at CCS or face weight take-off penalties out of CCS.
Yes, AA de-hubbed SJU but for keeping MIA-CCS evening and CCS-MIA mornings, B737-800 MIA-CCS-SJU-CCS-MIA would come quite handy, specailly if AA adds a MIA-SJU-MIA night time to connect with CCS flights. And B.T.W. there’s still a demand for CCS-SJU.

IMHO, as for TK in CCS, knowing how out-of-the box it thinks when adding new destinations, IST-HAV gets a tag-on to MEX or triangle with MBJ and CCS gets stop enroute to IST in SDQ, PUJ or POS.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 4:46 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
A lot of talk in this thread about AA and others minting money in Venezuela.

Are there statistics to show whether these flights are full in only one direction? ie: CCS - MIA? Do a lot of folks head TO Venezuela in these times?

Yes, they are full in both directions. The US is not a huge emigration destination anymore for Venezuelans since it is really hard to get a visa and even harder to stay. It's mostly Venezuelans living in and around Miami going back home to visit.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 4:48 pm

mabadia71 wrote:
I was wondering couldn't the airlines "buy" the fuel from a 3rd Venezuelan entity. I mean AA "buys" it from some Venezuelan company (and they pay this company with USD or Bolivares) and this company buys it in petros from the government. Can this be done?

Which 3rd Venezuelan entity. There's PDVSA and nothing else. And the decree makes it clear that the airlines have to pay in Petros. Period.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 4:49 pm

B777LRF wrote:
A 757 burns, in very rough numbers, around 7 tons the first hour and then 3,5 tons per hour after that. For a 4-hour flight that's a total of around 18 tons. To operate within legal limits, you're looking at a fuel requirement of around 21-23 tons out of CCS.

The OEW of a 757 is around 60 tons, and MLW is around 90. Payload (185 pax, no cargo) is around 18 tons. In other words, you can 'only' tanker around 12 tons and stay below MLW, and that's having dumped all cargo. Add 4 tons of cargo, and you're looking at 8 tons. And that, ladies and gentlemen, should firmly lay to bed the idea of tankering a 757 to replace a 737 as a viable option.

The realistic options are either a tech-stop on the way down, or tanker what you can and tech-stop on the way back.

Or use an even bigger aircraft? 763 or A330? Reduce frequency and increase aircraft size, so that tankering becomes viable.
 
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cranberrysaus
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 4:51 pm

Wonder how AA is going to deal with this one. Anybody know the conversion rate of Petros to Schrute Bucks?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 4:55 pm

2175301 wrote:
Another option is a version of the Tanker fuel option. Literally fly a cargo aircraft their with a cargo of fuel that is used to at least partially refuel the other AA aircraft (I can see 375 gallon totes of jet fuel - if they do not use a round tank). AA could use a charter company to do this - and the charter company could pay for it's own cost in Petros if required. Not neccesarily the cheapest option. but an option that might be affordable and still allow them to make a profit. How much fuel would have to be added to a 757 to ensure a safe return trip without making a triangle route?

Have a great day,

...or they could beam the jet fuel in from Space Station Alpha...
 
Bald1983
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 5:58 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Sorry, Spanish only:

https://maduradas.com/sepalo-gobierno-v ... en-petros/


In another reckless attempt to enrich themselves, the Maduro regime today decreed that all international airlines have to pay for jet fuel in Venezuela in Petros, the fake virtual currency created by the very same thugs. In reality, the Petro is a government bond, disqualified by investors worldwide. It is not clear which blockchain this "currency" uses, it is said to be backed by Venezuela's known oil reserves (which in itself is in violation of the constitution), and it is not clear how it is traded. (On a side note, Venezuela just offered India a 30% discount on Venezuelan crude, if they pay in Petros.)
The already complex operations of foreign airlines into Venezuela just became even more complex. For which airline(s) will this be the straw that breaks the camel's back? The most affected ones are those that cannot fuel for their flight out of Venezuela elsewhere, such as TK, AF, UX, IB, PU, AA.
AA is in an especially hard spot, since US law prohibits investment in or trade of Petros, which is part of the sanctions against Venezuela.


There is a simple solution: All international airlines stop flying into Venezuela. Many have, particularly USA flagged carriers. Politics had nothing to do with it; they could not remove their money from the country. Next step, ban Venezuela flagged carriers from flying into other countries. Problem solved. Who would want to go to Venezuela in these days, anyway? The only thing the country offers at this point, is an object lesson on how socialism can take a relatively well off nation and turn it into a poor crap hole of a country.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 6:21 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
A lot of talk in this thread about AA and others minting money in Venezuela.

Are there statistics to show whether these flights are full in only one direction? ie: CCS - MIA? Do a lot of folks head TO Venezuela in these times?


I personally saw someone buy a 1600 USD return at the counter in MIA not too long ago. They had to wait a few days until there was a seat available, too. Overall demand is low but there is demand and very few ways to get there.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 6:41 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Sorry, Spanish only:

https://maduradas.com/sepalo-gobierno-v ... en-petros/


In another reckless attempt to enrich themselves, the Maduro regime today decreed that all international airlines have to pay for jet fuel in Venezuela in Petros, the fake virtual currency created by the very same thugs. In reality, the Petro is a government bond, disqualified by investors worldwide. It is not clear which blockchain this "currency" uses, it is said to be backed by Venezuela's known oil reserves (which in itself is in violation of the constitution), and it is not clear how it is traded. (On a side note, Venezuela just offered India a 30% discount on Venezuelan crude, if they pay in Petros.)
The already complex operations of foreign airlines into Venezuela just became even more complex. For which airline(s) will this be the straw that breaks the camel's back? The most affected ones are those that cannot fuel for their flight out of Venezuela elsewhere, such as TK, AF, UX, IB, PU, AA.
AA is in an especially hard spot, since US law prohibits investment in or trade of Petros, which is part of the sanctions against Venezuela.


There is a simple solution: All international airlines stop flying into Venezuela. Many have, particularly USA flagged carriers. Politics had nothing to do with it; they could not remove their money from the country. Next step, ban Venezuela flagged carriers from flying into other countries. Problem solved. Who would want to go to Venezuela in these days, anyway? The only thing the country offers at this point, is an object lesson on how socialism can take a relatively well off nation and turn it into a poor crap hole of a country.

Donald...is that you?
 
Antarius
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 6:41 pm

cranberrysaus wrote:
Wonder how AA is going to deal with this one. QUESTION: Anybody know the conversion rate of Petros to Schrute Bucks?


Fixed it for you.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT BIS LHR TXL
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 8:33 pm

Antarius wrote:
cranberrysaus wrote:
Wonder how AA is going to deal with this one. QUESTION: Anybody know the conversion rate of Petros to Schrute Bucks?

Fixed it for you.

Not really sure what needed fixing, really. I'm pretty sure it was obvious that a question was being asked even before you went ahead and added question before the question.
Captain Kevin
 
Antarius
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 8:40 pm

AirKevin wrote:
Antarius wrote:
cranberrysaus wrote:
Wonder how AA is going to deal with this one. QUESTION: Anybody know the conversion rate of Petros to Schrute Bucks?

Fixed it for you.

Not really sure what needed fixing, really. I'm pretty sure it was obvious that a question was being asked even before you went ahead and added question before the question.


It was a reference to the show the Office in response to the Office reference about Schrute bucks by cranberrysaus
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT BIS LHR TXL
 
Strato2
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 8:45 pm

What's the problem here? Venezuela can do whatever it likes. So does AA and every other airline. If AA continues to fly there I guess they see a point in doing so. In the end it's a business decision if it's worth it.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 8:59 pm

Strato2 wrote:
What's the problem here? Venezuela can do whatever it likes. So does AA and every other airline. If AA continues to fly there I guess they see a point in doing so. In the end it's a business decision if it's worth it.

Well, it's the equivalent of the US demanding that all jet fuel in the US be sold only in Trumps, a currency that only Don and his cronies can trade as they like. That is the problem here. That major international airlines are forced to partake in a major scam operation.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Tue May 01, 2018 9:16 pm

Antarius wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Fixed it for you.

Not really sure what needed fixing, really. I'm pretty sure it was obvious that a question was being asked even before you went ahead and added question before the question.

It was a reference to the show the Office in response to the Office reference about Schrute bucks by cranberrysaus

Copy. I don't watch TV, so wouldn't know it.
Captain Kevin
 
travaz
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 1:48 am

In the original post it mentioned a 30% discount for India to use Petros. Why would they turn down a hard currency like USD? Is the hook a large discount on fuel? Maybe AA can continue to pay in USD or Bolivars at a higher price. Instead of tankering, why not plan so you would only have to take on a small amount of fuel ?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 1:57 am

travaz wrote:
In the original post it mentioned a 30% discount for India to use Petros. Why would they turn down a hard currency like USD? Is the hook a large discount on fuel? Maybe AA can continue to pay in USD or Bolivars at a higher price. Instead of tankering, why not plan so you would only have to take on a small amount of fuel ?

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/venezue ... 44424.html

Instead of tankering, why not plan so you would only have to take on a small amount of fuel ?
Isn't that what you do by tankering?

Airlines haven't been allowed to pay for jet fuel in Bolívares for many years.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 3:10 am

travaz wrote:
In the original post it mentioned a 30% discount for India to use Petros. Why would they turn down a hard currency like USD? Is the hook a large discount on fuel?

This is how it works:
The official currency is Bolivar which cannot be echanged to USD or any other hard currency (let's call it all USD) except on the black market at crazy rates.
Therefore you cannot buy airline tickets except when spending USD.
The supporters of the regime (military generals, police officers and such) therefore need to have at least part of their wages paid in USD. Otherwise they would simply change the regime.
Some of that USD ends up on the black market to further undermine the worthless Bolivar. You need USD to buy practically any product of foreign produce.

By introducing a non-echangeable Petro as part of the wages for regime supporters, and as the only way to buy fuel, then the airlines are forced to sell tickets accepting Petro as payment. It's the only way to get money for the fuel.

That way the regime supporters can buy reaonable air tickets without having to supplement with USD bought on the black market. And consequently the Bolivar black market volume will shrink. The Bolivar-to-USD black market will also be more easily traced since the military and police themselves will be less involved in the illegal activity.

By keeping the Petro as an "electronic" currency (no cash notes), then all transactions can be traced. That means that should the Petro also end up on the black market, then black market dealers can easily be found and be hanged or crucified on the townhall square.

That way ordinary people are kept in poverty, :sigh: and the regime supporters are kept happy. :spin:
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Avianca
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 3:20 am

B777LRF wrote:
A 757 burns, in very rough numbers, around 7 tons the first hour and then 3,5 tons PER (Perth - Australia) hour after that. For a 4-hour flight that's a total of around 18 tons. To operate within legal limits, you're looking at a fuel requirement of around 21-23 tons out of CCS.

The OEW of a 757 is around 60 tons, and MLW is around 90. Payload (185 pax, no cargo) is around 18 tons. In other words, you can 'only' tanker around 12 tons and stay below MLW, and that's having dumped all cargo. Add 4 tons of cargo, and you're looking at 8 tons. And that, ladies and gentlemen, should firmly lay to bed the idea of tankering a 757 to replace a 737 as a viable option.

The realistic options are either a tech-stop on the way down, or tanker what you can and tech-stop on the way back.


AA is not moving any cargo into VE since at least 5 years.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Bald1983
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 4:30 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Sorry, Spanish only:

https://maduradas.com/sepalo-gobierno-v ... en-petros/


In another reckless attempt to enrich themselves, the Maduro regime today decreed that all international airlines have to pay for jet fuel in Venezuela in Petros, the fake virtual currency created by the very same thugs. In reality, the Petro is a government bond, disqualified by investors worldwide. It is not clear which blockchain this "currency" uses, it is said to be backed by Venezuela's known oil reserves (which in itself is in violation of the constitution), and it is not clear how it is traded. (On a side note, Venezuela just offered India a 30% discount on Venezuelan crude, if they pay in Petros.)
The already complex operations of foreign airlines into Venezuela just became even more complex. For which airline(s) will this be the straw that breaks the camel's back? The most affected ones are those that cannot fuel for their flight out of Venezuela elsewhere, such as TK, AF, UX, IB, PU, AA.
AA is in an especially hard spot, since US law prohibits investment in or trade of Petros, which is part of the sanctions against Venezuela.


There is a simple solution: All international airlines stop flying into Venezuela. Many have, particularly USA flagged carriers. Politics had nothing to do with it; they could not remove their money from the country. Next step, ban Venezuela flagged carriers from flying into other countries. Problem solved. Who would want to go to Venezuela in these days, anyway? The only thing the country offers at this point, is an object lesson on how socialism can take a relatively well off nation and turn it into a poor crap hole of a country.

Donald...is that you?


Hugo, is that you, back from the dead?
 
Bald1983
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 3:17 pm

prebennorholm wrote:
travaz wrote:
In the original post it mentioned a 30% discount for India to use Petros. Why would they turn down a hard currency like USD? Is the hook a large discount on fuel?

This is how it works:
The official currency is Bolivar which cannot be echanged to USD or any other hard currency (let's call it all USD) except on the black market at crazy rates.
Therefore you cannot buy airline tickets except when spending USD.
The supporters of the regime (military generals, police officers and such) therefore need to have at least part of their wages paid in USD. Otherwise they would simply change the regime.
Some of that USD ends up on the black market to further undermine the worthless Bolivar. You need USD to buy practically any product of foreign produce.

By introducing a non-echangeable Petro as part of the wages for regime supporters, and as the only way to buy fuel, then the airlines are forced to sell tickets accepting Petro as payment. It's the only way to get money for the fuel.

That way the regime supporters can buy reaonable air tickets without having to supplement with USD bought on the black market. And consequently the Bolivar black market volume will shrink. The Bolivar-to-USD black market will also be more easily traced since the military and police themselves will be less involved in the illegal activity.

By keeping the Petro as an "electronic" currency (no cash notes), then all transactions can be traced. That means that should the Petro also end up on the black market, then black market dealers can easily be found and be hanged or crucified on the townhall square.

That way ordinary people are kept in poverty, :sigh: and the regime supporters are kept happy. :spin:


Sums it up.
 
SonOfABeech
Posts: 207
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Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 3:32 pm

Bald1983 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Sorry, Spanish only:

https://maduradas.com/sepalo-gobierno-v ... en-petros/


In another reckless attempt to enrich themselves, the Maduro regime today decreed that all international airlines have to pay for jet fuel in Venezuela in Petros, the fake virtual currency created by the very same thugs. In reality, the Petro is a government bond, disqualified by investors worldwide. It is not clear which blockchain this "currency" uses, it is said to be backed by Venezuela's known oil reserves (which in itself is in violation of the constitution), and it is not clear how it is traded. (On a side note, Venezuela just offered India a 30% discount on Venezuelan crude, if they pay in Petros.)
The already complex operations of foreign airlines into Venezuela just became even more complex. For which airline(s) will this be the straw that breaks the camel's back? The most affected ones are those that cannot fuel for their flight out of Venezuela elsewhere, such as TK, AF, UX, IB, PU, AA.
AA is in an especially hard spot, since US law prohibits investment in or trade of Petros, which is part of the sanctions against Venezuela.


There is a simple solution: All international airlines stop flying into Venezuela. Many have, particularly USA flagged carriers. Politics had nothing to do with it; they could not remove their money from the country. Next step, ban Venezuela flagged carriers from flying into other countries. Problem solved. Who would want to go to Venezuela in these days, anyway? The only thing the country offers at this point, is an object lesson on how socialism can take a relatively well off nation and turn it into a poor crap hole of a country.


Oi! There are still plenty of us looking to get out!
 
SonaSounds
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 3:50 pm

prebennorholm wrote:
travaz wrote:
In the original post it mentioned a 30% discount for India to use Petros. Why would they turn down a hard currency like USD? Is the hook a large discount on fuel?

This is how it works:
The official currency is Bolivar which cannot be echanged to USD or any other hard currency (let's call it all USD) except on the black market at crazy rates.
Therefore you cannot buy airline tickets except when spending USD.
The supporters of the regime (military generals, police officers and such) therefore need to have at least part of their wages paid in USD. Otherwise they would simply change the regime.
Some of that USD ends up on the black market to further undermine the worthless Bolivar. You need USD to buy practically any product of foreign produce.

By introducing a non-echangeable Petro as part of the wages for regime supporters, and as the only way to buy fuel, then the airlines are forced to sell tickets accepting Petro as payment. It's the only way to get money for the fuel.

That way the regime supporters can buy reaonable air tickets without having to supplement with USD bought on the black market. And consequently the Bolivar black market volume will shrink. The Bolivar-to-USD black market will also be more easily traced since the military and police themselves will be less involved in the illegal activity.

By keeping the Petro as an "electronic" currency (no cash notes), then all transactions can be traced. That means that should the Petro also end up on the black market, then black market dealers can easily be found and be hanged or crucified on the townhall square.

That way ordinary people are kept in poverty, :sigh: and the regime supporters are kept happy. :spin:


Nice summary. Something is gonna have to give soon.
 
Etheereal
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 4:00 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
deltadawg wrote:
Before I try and find the statistics does anyone know the loads for AA's MIA-CCS route? Seems all too troublesome for AA to continue serving this route. IF the loads were especially good then I might could understand it but to delve into a fake currency to boot just for one route into a country on the brink of utter collapse just seems reckless and full of disregard for shareholders really.

AA, get out while the getting is good. You can always go back once the nation wakes up from the Maduro haze!

As I understand, in AA's case, paying in Petros is not an option, due to US sanctions. Their options are basically tanker, make an intermediate stop (probably in one of the ABC islands), or get out of Venezuela. But then again, Maduro can change his mind when he sees that his attempt at robbery and blackmail doesn't work.

Venezuela must be pretty lucrative for AA, being the only US carrier flying there nowadays. They also upgraded to the 757 recently.


...Now, as for European airlines, I could see them deciding to fly to PTY or BOG instead and codeshare with Copa (CM or P5) into Venezuela (1x daily from PTY and 4x weekly from BOG), or fly to POS and codeshare with Caribbean Airlines (3x weekly to CCS from POS on an ATR72-600).

I could see TK turning its service to Havana into terminator service very soon.

Doubtful, considering those 346 take penalties due BOG altitude.
 
Etheereal
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: Venezuela demands payment for jet fuel in Petros

Wed May 02, 2018 4:08 pm

SonOfABeech wrote:
Bald1983 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Sorry, Spanish only:

https://maduradas.com/sepalo-gobierno-v ... en-petros/


In another reckless attempt to enrich themselves, the Maduro regime today decreed that all international airlines have to pay for jet fuel in Venezuela in Petros, the fake virtual currency created by the very same thugs. In reality, the Petro is a government bond, disqualified by investors worldwide. It is not clear which blockchain this "currency" uses, it is said to be backed by Venezuela's known oil reserves (which in itself is in violation of the constitution), and it is not clear how it is traded. (On a side note, Venezuela just offered India a 30% discount on Venezuelan crude, if they pay in Petros.)
The already complex operations of foreign airlines into Venezuela just became even more complex. For which airline(s) will this be the straw that breaks the camel's back? The most affected ones are those that cannot fuel for their flight out of Venezuela elsewhere, such as TK, AF, UX, IB, PU, AA.
AA is in an especially hard spot, since US law prohibits investment in or trade of Petros, which is part of the sanctions against Venezuela.


There is a simple solution: All international airlines stop flying into Venezuela. Many have, particularly USA flagged carriers. Politics had nothing to do with it; they could not remove their money from the country. Next step, ban Venezuela flagged carriers from flying into other countries. Problem solved. Who would want to go to Venezuela in these days, anyway? The only thing the country offers at this point, is an object lesson on how socialism can take a relatively well off nation and turn it into a poor crap hole of a country.


Oi! There are still plenty of us looking to get out!

Don't forget: You're here forever.

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