Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
TheRedBaron
Topic Author
Posts: 3276
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:17 am

Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:10 am

Just saw this in you tube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjn-WpF ... e=youtu.be

Holy smokes is this legal? the TCAS must be off like crazy

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7905
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:14 am

Looks like someone making a commercial ad for the airline.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:19 am

looks like a commercial shoot. That is definitely a private aircraft taking a video of the AC/ Rouge aircraft.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:25 am

yeah, wow. I don't have a good grasp of the optical aspect of what that video is showing, the tail engine cowling perspective is tricking me - I'm guessing the distance is much greater than my eyes and brain are telling me. But damn.......................................... they sure seem scary-ass close!
 
MaverickTTT
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:28 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:38 am

 
32andBelow
Posts: 5376
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:41 am

Formation flights are legal. Both pilots need to brief on the ground and you cannot have any paying passengers. Also only the lead aircraft will have their transponder on during IFR flights so atc will only see one target.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8923
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:46 am

Air Canada totally disregard good airmanship and the law, and post it on YouTube. Sound logical to you?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 7:23 am

I'm surprised air-to-air photography is still a thing nowadays. One would think it'll be easier & more cost effective to just Photoshop/CGI everything.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
seat55a
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 8:26 am

That looks like it's taken out the back window of the Wolfe Air Learjet. This is what they do for a living. The production video makes it clear they really are that close.

https://wolfeair.com/
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4487
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 11:13 am

32andBelow wrote:
Formation flights are legal. Both pilots need to brief on the ground and you cannot have any paying passengers. Also only the lead aircraft will have their transponder on during IFR flights so atc will only see one target.

:checkmark: Nailed it. Anyone can fly in formation for whatever reason they please, they are just required to follow the regulations. They can either depart together or separately and then join up, and they'll typically notify ATC of what it is that they'll be doing (in this case, photo mission). ATC deals with photo missions, aerial surveys, etc. fairly often, so it's not all that unusual of a request. Obviously the military has a whole other set of rules, but I won't get into that.
 
User avatar
XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 1:28 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I'm surprised air-to-air photography is still a thing nowadays. One would think it'll be easier & more cost effective to just Photoshop/CGI everything.


Yeah, in the same way that I'm surprised steak is still a thing nowadays when it'd be easier and more cost-effective to just drink meal-replacement shakes all the time.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11707
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 1:57 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I'm surprised air-to-air photography is still a thing nowadays. One would think it'll be easier & more cost effective to just Photoshop/CGI everything.

Good CGI (ie realistic CGI that won’t make everyone laugh at you) is not cheap. Hard to photoshop together a video that you may use in commercials, safety vids, etc.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5376
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 2:19 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I'm surprised air-to-air photography is still a thing nowadays. One would think it'll be easier & more cost effective to just Photoshop/CGI everything.

Airlines usually take these marketing shots then extract the planes from them and put them in front of different backgrounds if necessary.
 
User avatar
OA940
Posts: 1991
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 4:12 pm

That's a Learjet. I remember that one since AC used it for their new livery photoshoot. It's a formation flight. And it's definitely legal considering you have to get all kinds of special permits to do one.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4487
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 4:24 pm

OA940 wrote:
That's a Learjet. I remember that one since AC used it for their new livery photoshoot. It's a formation flight. And it's definitely legal considering you have to get all kinds of special permits to do one.

No permits required, in the US at least. As mentioned further up thread, the only requirements are that both pilots agree, it is briefed beforehand, and that no paid passengers be on board. Typically they'll notify the FAA beforehand for aerial photography, including the purpose of the mission and the route of flight, but it's generally not required, and ATC will always accommodate to the extent possible.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8995
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 4:49 pm

All posts are just opinions.
 
Kno
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 5:11 pm

It's pretty obvious that this is for a commercial / photo shoot.

How did you think Airlines got shots like this for their advertising?
 
timz
Posts: 6581
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:12 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
I'm guessing the distance is much greater than my eyes and brain are telling me.

No reason to doubt your eyes and brain.
 
crazyfoo88
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:23 pm

If anyone is wondering who does these shoots, look here 8-) Brian Losito is the photographer.

https://www.instagram.com/brianlosito/?hl=en
crazyfoo88
 
aeromoe
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 6:25 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
Yeah, in the same way that I'm surprised steak is still a thing nowadays when it'd be easier and more cost-effective to just drink meal-replacement shakes all the time.


:banghead:

Star Trek Quote from episode 'By Any Other Name' -- Dr. McCoy to Hanar: "And eat some solid food, will you?"
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 4526
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 8:48 pm

I remember a TV commercial of Delta Airlines a number of years ago where they also flew in formation. To be more precise, they flew in a triangle (a delta), that's why I remember it was a commercial for Delta. They must have had another aircraft for the camera action since it was shot from various angles.

Nowadays such videos are mostly made using Flight Simulator, but back then the quality of Flight Simulator wasn't good enough. It would have been obvious that it was fake. Nowadays Flight Simulator is looking so much like the real thing you almost can't tell what is real and what is fake. There are a good number of movies where you're looking at the sky and in fact you're looking at Flight Simulator without knowing it. It's looking so real...
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 2348
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 10:57 pm

Maybe not the closest formation flying, but worth a mention, IMHO.

Image
This was Xmas Eve, 1985.

theaviationgeekclub wrote:
To share the moment with as many of their staff as possible, BA decided that each aircraft would carry 65 of their flight deck crews as passengers during the 1 hr subsonic formation flight. The tickets were distributed to the staff by their heads of department who each had an allocation.

And of course there had to be a fifth aircraft in the sky to take the various photos. I heard it was an RAF Tornado GR.1, and the RAF pilot kept yelling at the BA pilots to slow down because his EGT was off the scale.....
Or I could be making that bit up. :liar:

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/time-fo ... stmas-eve/
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7594
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 11:23 pm

I did a photo shoot over SYD harbor about 8 years ago. One just after dawn and one the next evening. Hard work, but fun looking at the Opera House trying to stay with an all-too-slow Seminole.

GF
 
User avatar
ua900
Moderator
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:14 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Tue May 01, 2018 11:48 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I remember a TV commercial of Delta Airlines a number of years ago where they also flew in formation. To be more precise, they flew in a triangle (a delta), that's why I remember it was a commercial for Delta.


This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxQ4hBwp4Q4
2020: AMS | ATL | BRU | DAL | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | GUA | IAH | LAX | LIM | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SAL | SCL | SFO | TPA | TXL
 
User avatar
NYPECO
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:55 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Wed May 02, 2018 12:20 am

I can't tell from the video, but can they actually hear the sound of the 767 from their Learjet the entire flight? You can usually hear the roar of a large aircraft taking off from inside a plane that's waiting on the taxiway.


dtw2hyd wrote:


That first video must have been amazing to experience! :eyepopping:
 
User avatar
7BOEING7
Posts: 3039
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Wed May 02, 2018 12:34 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I remember a TV commercial of Delta Airlines a number of years ago where they also flew in formation. To be more precise, they flew in a triangle (a delta), that's why I remember it was a commercial for Delta. They must have had another aircraft for the camera action since it was shot from various angles.


Actually it was probably the same photo plane, just different angles. For a 30 second commercial/still advertising shots it can take 2 to 3 hours to get enough usable footage. Background, shadows, sun angles and hotspots make a lot of the footage shot unusable. In late December before UA got their first 777 we spent about 9 hours over 2 days getting air to air video/stills followed a month later by an entire day of ground to air videos of taxiing, takeoffs, landings and low passes. The footage which was expected to be used for decades was obsolete nine years later when the livery changed again.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Nowadays such videos are mostly made using Flight Simulator, but back then the quality of Flight Simulator wasn't good enough. It would have been obvious that it was fake. Nowadays Flight Simulator is looking so much like the real thing you almost can't tell what is real and what is fake. There are a good number of movies where you're looking at the sky and in fact you're looking at Flight Simulator without knowing it. It's looking so real...


Clay Lacy and Wolfe would tend to disagree. They seem to be doing as much work with Boeing customers before delivery of the airplanes as always. Each customer's advertizing department has different ideas about what they want clouds, water, mountains etc and they want it real. In fact when JAS (Japan AIr Service) for their 777 sat down to describe what they wanted for a photo flight in the pre-flight brief, they asked Clay to corkscrew around their airplane as if painting on the rainbow that corkscrewed down the airplane -- didn't happen.

So far you can always tell the real stuff from the CG stuff.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7594
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Wed May 02, 2018 1:23 am

As would Paul Bowen from ICT. CGI only goes so far say all the aerial photogs. Video is very expensive to photoshop. Any of these shoots for marketing is a pretty extensive and expensive operation. We did five days in SYD, three in HNL and five around the west coast, mostly Yosemite, Four Corners.

GF
 
crownvic
Posts: 2813
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Is this even Legal (close flying)

Wed May 02, 2018 5:23 am

I am sure everything is safe and fine, until the Lear loses power. I would imagine that 763 would ram right into it and it would be "curtains" from there for everyone.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos