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enilria
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F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 6:34 pm

I saw the headline on my phone and said to myself "I bet this was Philly". The ramp situation at Philly has been sketchy for 20 years with gang influences and such.

BTW, they were really Worldwide Flight Service and probably work for multiple airlines.
 
FGITD
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 6:36 pm

Horrible situation.


However unfortunate it is, it's also definitely worth noting that an employee in the sterile zone had a knife...
Last edited by FGITD on Thu May 03, 2018 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
slider
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 6:41 pm

FGITD wrote:
Horrible situation.


However unfortunate it is, it's also definitely worth noting that an employee in the strike zone had a knife...


Yeah, which means this investigation will be intriguing to say the least. Where it came from, how it got there, where he sourced it, etc, etc... And, knowing the benevolent Federal leviathan, they would never overreact I'm sure by making more stringent, sweeping rules for employee security and ramp access and such. Buckle up.
 
Flighty
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 6:48 pm

Sad news. But, PHL has always had this sort of reputation (including airport staff). It is what it is, gangster activity. RIP.
 
MARSHAL1
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 6:58 pm

Frontier doesn't have any employees in PHL (or anywhere else as far as I know). The article says that they were Worldwide Flight Services. So the correct title is "WFS employee was stabbed/killed on the ramp".
 
CanadianNorth
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 7:20 pm

FGITD wrote:
Horrible situation.


However unfortunate it is, it's also definitely worth noting that an employee in the sterile zone had a knife...



Having not been there I have no idea where the knife came from, but it's worth pointing out that knives and other tools are regularly in the "sterile zones" for maintenance purposes. Airplanes, belt loaders, passenger bridges, etc, are all mechanical things that will require maintenance at some point and maintenance usually requires tools, and a knife or other such cutting device is a fairly common thing to have in a tool box. Just saying.

Anyways, it is scary to think of someone being murdered on the ramp. Very unfortunate for the gentleman as well as his family and friends, and I have no doubts that in the long run any new rules that come out of this are only going to make just doing our job even harder for the rest of us on the ramp.
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subramak1
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 7:25 pm

CanadianNorth wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Horrible situation.


However unfortunate it is, it's also definitely worth noting that an employee in the sterile zone had a knife...



Having not been there I have no idea where the knife came from, but it's worth pointing out that knives and other tools are regularly in the "sterile zones" for maintenance purposes. Airplanes, belt loaders, passenger bridges, etc, are all mechanical things that will require maintenance at some point and maintenance usually requires tools, and a knife or other such cutting device is a fairly common thing to have in a tool box. Just saying.

Anyways, it is scary to think of someone being murdered on the ramp. Very unfortunate for the gentleman as well as his family and friends, and I have no doubts that in the long run any new rules that come out of this are only going to make just doing our job even harder for the rest of us on the ramp.


It was a box cutter, tragic..May his soul RIP
 
FGITD
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 7:41 pm

CanadianNorth wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Horrible situation.


However unfortunate it is, it's also definitely worth noting that an employee in the sterile zone had a knife...



Having not been there I have no idea where the knife came from, but it's worth pointing out that knives and other tools are regularly in the "sterile zones" for maintenance purposes. Airplanes, belt loaders, passenger bridges, etc, are all mechanical things that will require maintenance at some point and maintenance usually requires tools, and a knife or other such cutting device is a fairly common thing to have in a tool box. Just saying.


Of course tools are needed, but most places I've seen require a master inventory of those items. And if requested, you'll need to provide the inventory as well as every item listed, to ensure nothing is missing.

It's just a shame. Already so many hazards on the ramp. Last thing you should have to worry about is your co-worker stabbing you
 
johns624
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 7:43 pm

We don't know yet who the instigator was or whose side the third employee was on. It could've been self defense, for all we know.
 
CanadianNorth
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 7:52 pm

FGITD wrote:

Of course tools are needed, but most places I've seen require a master inventory of those items. And if requested, you'll need to provide the inventory as well as every item listed, to ensure nothing is missing.

It's just a shame. Already so many hazards on the ramp. Last thing you should have to worry about is your co-worker stabbing you


Never heard of having to provide a master inventory of tools. Usually most of our tools are at the hangar and we just have a small travel bag and grab an assortment of tools based on the job we're going down to the secure zone to do.

Anyways, yes, already a million hazards on the ramp at any given time so one would be expecting your co-workers are looking out for you, not stabbing you...
HS-748, like a 747 but better!
 
ozark1
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 8:20 pm

I do think the title of this thread should be changed in all fairness to F9 employees.
 
stlgph
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 8:28 pm

Yes, should definitely call it "Worldwide Flight Services," just like you all called that other thing in Philadelphia "Starbucks" rather than "Smith Casual Dining, LLC."
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
usflyer msp
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 9:09 pm

I like Philadelphia but I have never understood why PHL tends to attract such terrible staff...
Many of them are very rough around the edges but somehow they manage to pass the background checks and get badged
You should never have to worry about your colleague stabbing you!
 
burnsie28
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 11:27 pm

 
7673mech
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu May 03, 2018 11:56 pm

FGITD wrote:
CanadianNorth wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Horrible situation.


However unfortunate it is, it's also definitely worth noting that an employee in the sterile zone had a knife...



Having not been there I have no idea where the knife came from, but it's worth pointing out that knives and other tools are regularly in the "sterile zones" for maintenance purposes. Airplanes, belt loaders, passenger bridges, etc, are all mechanical things that will require maintenance at some point and maintenance usually requires tools, and a knife or other such cutting device is a fairly common thing to have in a tool box. Just saying.


Of course tools are needed, but most places I've seen require a master inventory of those items. And if requested, you'll need to provide the inventory as well as every item listed, to ensure nothing is missing.

It's just a shame. Already so many hazards on the ramp. Last thing you should have to worry about is your co-worker stabbing you


Mfg and military keep master lists.
Commercial aviation goes on the honor system.
 
hayzel777
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 1:14 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Horrible situation.


However unfortunate it is, it's also definitely worth noting that an employee in the sterile zone had a knife...


Sounded like this was in or near a break room (read:kitchen). Even in my post 9/11 ramp days we always had knives in the break rooms. People gotta eat.

Even if the enployees go through screening on the way in, they could always get a knife from one of the restaurants. There’s a reason they do background checks. It’s impossible to monitor everyone all the time. You just have to hope that you weed out the bad apples by all the different screening types (background, fingerprints, checkpoints, random checks, etc.).

It was a box cutter that was used. However, just because it was a sterile zone does not mean there are no knives; box cutters are often used by various staff inside the sterile zone.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 1:15 am

FGITD wrote:
Horrible situation.


However unfortunate it is, it's also definitely worth noting that an employee in the sterile zone had a knife...


Sounded like this was in or near a break room (read:kitchen). Even in my post 9/11 ramp days we always had knives in the break rooms. People gotta eat.

Even if the enployees go through screening on the way in, they could always get a knife from one of the restaurants. There’s a reason they do background checks. It’s impossible to monitor everyone all the time. You just have to hope that you weed out the bad apples by all the different screening types (background, fingerprints, checkpoints, random checks, etc.).
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
ORDJOE
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 1:44 am

I lived in philly for 4 years and what the ramp jobs are heavily infested with gangs? interesting are other areas like this in the airport. I guess background checks are not full proof
 
USAIRWAYS321
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 2:44 am

stlgph wrote:
Yes, should definitely call it "Worldwide Flight Services," just like you all called that other thing in Philadelphia "Starbucks" rather than "Smith Casual Dining, LLC."

Surely you're aware that most Starbucks locations in the US, including the one you're referring to, are company owned rather than franchised.
 
wn676
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 3:15 am

Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 3:24 am

ORDJOE wrote:
I lived in philly for 4 years and what the ramp jobs are heavily infested with gangs? interesting are other areas like this in the airport. I guess background checks are not full proof


If I'm not mistaken, Philadelphia passed a law a few years ago which prohibited employers from asking about potential criminal history in employment applications. Though, I would've thought that there would be potential FAA or TSA regulations which would supersede Philadelphia's 'ban-the-box' ordinance.
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Flighty
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 3:31 am

Can you remember US union rivals breaking chairs over each other?

Plenty of good employees at that facility but also especially in the “bad times” at Us Airways... the baggage meltdown, the time they stopped collecting garbage... the facility and staff were in rough shape. Incredible progress has occurred since then. I regret taking a cheap shot at the philly crew. But, the past did occur and now this today. Hope they take care of each other.

One anecdote I heard in the bad days was, at $10/hr starting wage, only a tiny percentage of applicants passed the drug and background checks so it was hard to even hire anybody. Some of those who passed were just kids, 18, 19. There were plenty of rumors about gang or mob control of the facility - like pretty literally. That was more before my time, 80s-90s, baggage handlers were clearing 90 grand. Back then. I’m just unloading some rumors I collected. Anyway, by now, those people make a good wage and have families and more power to them. the outfit F9 is using may still be using some rough people. Evidently.
 
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Blimpie
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 4:49 am

Just to note to be fair, unless so called gang member has actually been arrest, charged and/or convicted of a crime, having a gang affiliation will not be known in a criminal background check. Unless your applicant is posting in public on social media images of themselves flashing gang signs, or videos of themselves "capping punk ass bee-otches" that applicant is not going to get flagged in any background check.

The US is not completely in 1984 yet (though it does seem like it is getting closer every year). As far as I am aware, most airport jobs do not entail polygraph tests. You don't know someone is a criminal until they are arrested. Now, if the airports are doing background checks, and knowingly hires convicted criminals or gang members as part of some sort of liberal feelgood second chance program tied in with some sort of parole or rehabilitation program, then that's a different story.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
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ual747den
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 4:53 am

I had the day off so I didn't check my email all day and just sat down and looked at it and was like WHAT?!?!?! I had to read it twice to understand what I was reading, it's not every day that the CEO sends out an email saying one of our vendor employees has murdered another one while working our aircraft. The title really does need to be changed because neither of them worked for Frontier Airlines, they worked for Worldwide Flight services.

On a completely different side note, I was working at a different company last year around this time and one of my co-workers there was murdered. This is obviously completely different since this guy is not actually a Frontier employee and I don't know the guy at all but still kinda weird. My co-worker from the other company was someone that I was really close to, and that murder has never been solved thanks to the terrible police work involved. He was leaving a concert and was found dead the next morning in the parking lot. Although the police said right away that he died from blunt force trauma they assumed that he had been hit by a car and the person took off (like that would be okay anyway). Now almost a year later they just released some more information saying that there is the possibility that an altercation took place before but either way it is murder and the police have not done much to find the killer. We have traffic cameras at every light in this city, the police can literally look at every car to come and go from that venue that night but they still haven't even got anywhere with the case.

ctrabs0114 wrote:
ORDJOE wrote:
I lived in philly for 4 years and what the ramp jobs are heavily infested with gangs? interesting are other areas like this in the airport. I guess background checks are not full proof


If I'm not mistaken, Philadelphia passed a law a few years ago which prohibited employers from asking about potential criminal history in employment applications. Though, I would've thought that there would be potential FAA or TSA regulations which would supersede Philadelphia's 'ban-the-box' ordinance.


None of that would matter when it comes to the FBI background check that is mandatory to get a SIDA badge. I believe that they got rid of the box not because they can stop any company from doing a background check but just to give people a chance to get into an interview without being discriminated against because of a criminal history. If the company really doesn't want to hire a felon they can't be forced to!
Frontier Airlines - Low Fares Done Right
 
oldannyboy
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Re: F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 8:55 am

Gritty Philly never ceases to amaze me. This would be unthinkable in Europe.

Don't get me wrong: I still love Philly but boy, what a gritty place it is!
 
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enilria
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Re: F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 1:05 pm

enilria wrote:
I saw the headline on my phone and said to myself "I bet this was Philly". The ramp situation at Philly has been sketchy for 20 years with gang influences and such.

BTW, they were really Worldwide Flight Service and probably work for multiple airlines.

Airliners is majorly glitching. I didn't post this thread. LOL
 
Bigstud69
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Re: F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Thugs being thugs.
 
Bigstud69
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Re: F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 2:26 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Gritty Philly never ceases to amaze me. This would be unthinkable in Europe.

Don't get me wrong: I still love Philly but boy, what a gritty place it is!


Not in Londonistan
 
F27500
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Re: F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 4:44 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Gritty Philly never ceases to amaze me. This would be unthinkable in Europe.

Don't get me wrong: I still love Philly but boy, what a gritty place it is!


"gritty" ... uh .. more like another word that rhymes with it .. .
 
usairways85
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Re: F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 4:52 pm

This is the terrible and tragic situation, but lets put the Philly stereotypes on the shelf for a minute and not let the facts get in the way. There have been at least 5 workplace violence issues in US airports in the past 5-10 years, I suppose they were all gang related as well. Lest we remember that many of these contract workers barely make minimum wage essentially working at all hours of the day. You can find countless articles about these workers striking across US airports for better pay and working conditions. I am not justifying this act in anyway, but to immediately infer that PHL is a ghetto run by gangs is a bit closed minded if you ask me.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/crime/frontier-airlines-overbrook-man-35-charged-with-killing-co-worker-philadelphia-international-airport-20180504.html

Homicide Capt. John Ryan said Kevin Emanuel, of the 2100 block of Hobart Street, will face counts including homicide for allegedly plunging his keys into the thigh of Aaron Jenkins


Jenkins, according to Ryan, had broken up a scuffle between Emanuel and another man who had been arguing about the break room lights in Terminal E6. When the fight subsided and the other man — whom Ryan did not identify — left to speak with a supervisor, Emanuel and Jenkins started fighting, an altercation that ended when Emanuel stuck his keys into Jenkins’ left thigh, Ryan said.
 
F9Animal
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 5:08 pm

ozark1 wrote:
I do think the title of this thread should be changed in all fairness to F9 employees.


Well, F9 got rid of all their ramp and customer service employees. The fact they now hire the cheapest vendors, I cant say I am shocked by this. It's of course just not a F9 problem.

Let's face it. When paying people minimum wage, these vendors do not get quality prospective job hunters. I find it shocking that airlines will have not so bright people working anywhere near their planes. There are gang members working out on the flight lines. I have seen it first hand.

Let's also not forget how easy it is to smuggle a weapon. Most of the ramp agents simply bypass the TSA by entering the ramp through Bagwell doors. Sadly, it takes alot of blood to change the way things are handled.

Before I get crucified by someone that works for a vendor.... Yes, not all of them are bad. WFS is pretty much the welfare child of airline vendors.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Fri May 04, 2018 8:41 pm

but....low fares!!!
 
slickvik
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:52 am

Blimpie wrote:
Just to note to be fair, unless so called gang member has actually been arrest, charged and/or convicted of a crime, having a gang affiliation will not be known in a criminal background check. Unless your applicant is posting in public on social media images of themselves flashing gang signs, or videos of themselves "capping punk ass bee-otches" that applicant is not going to get flagged in any background check.

The US is not completely in 1984 yet (though it does seem like it is getting closer every year). As far as I am aware, most airport jobs do not entail polygraph tests. You don't know someone is a criminal until they are arrested. Now, if the airports are doing background checks, and knowingly hires convicted criminals or gang members as part of some sort of liberal feelgood second chance program tied in with some sort of parole or rehabilitation program, then that's a different story.


Are you saying criminals shouldn’t be rehabilitated?
 
WWads
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:58 am

F9Animal wrote:
ozark1 wrote:
I do think the title of this thread should be changed in all fairness to F9 employees.


Well, F9 got rid of all their ramp and customer service employees. The fact they now hire the cheapest vendors, I cant say I am shocked by this. It's of course just not a F9 problem.

Let's face it. When paying people minimum wage, these vendors do not get quality prospective job hunters. I find it shocking that airlines will have not so bright people working anywhere near their planes. There are gang members working out on the flight lines. I have seen it first hand.

Let's also not forget how easy it is to smuggle a weapon. Most of the ramp agents simply bypass the TSA by entering the ramp through Bagwell doors. Sadly, it takes alot of blood to change the way things are handled.

Before I get crucified by someone that works for a vendor.... Yes, not all of them are bad. WFS is pretty much the welfare child of airline vendors.


Sounds like some doors are getting sealed off going forward. I've said for years that the ramp is a big vulnerability in US aviation security. It's a credit to our intel community that nothing terrible has happened yet. We've also been lucky.
 
Boof02671
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Re: F9 Contract Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:00 am

The baggage meltdown was not the the ramp employees fault and the Independent report showed that fact.
 
strfyr51
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Re: F9 Employee Murdered on PHL Ramp by Fellow Employee

Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:00 pm

CanadianNorth wrote:
FGITD wrote:

Of course tools are needed, but most places I've seen require a master inventory of those items. And if requested, you'll need to provide the inventory as well as every item listed, to ensure nothing is missing.

It's just a shame. Already so many hazards on the ramp. Last thing you should have to worry about is your co-worker stabbing you


Never heard of having to provide a master inventory of tools. Usually most of our tools are at the hangar and we just have a small travel bag and grab an assortment of tools based on the job we're going down to the secure zone to do.

Anyways, yes, already a million hazards on the ramp at any given time so one would be expecting your co-workers are looking out for you, not stabbing you...

Nobody monitors hand tools, If you're going to work on an airplane you take the tools appropriate for the job at hand. I've carried a small tool belt pouch to a pretty large canvas tool bag up on an airplane. It depends on the Job. And I also carried a leatherman Utility knife with me has about 12 attachments aside from 2 knife blades.

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