CX747
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British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Seems that Boeing is in the proverbial “pole position” to earn new orders for widebodies from British Airways and IAG. One could assume 787s for growth...maybe 777Xs?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... h-iag.html
Last edited by atcsundevil on Fri May 04, 2018 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited title for clarity
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Strato2
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:31 pm

"We have had very constructive dialogue with Boeing on wide-body aircraft. We will be meeting them in the next few days,"

=

British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies
 
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Polot
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:31 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
BA doesn't order anything for itself nowadays - IAG orders and BA takes what it gets given.

It’s not that authoritarian. IAG orders what BA (or IB, or EI, or whatever) needs. They don’t just order a plane and then say hey BA you are operating these now.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:31 pm

BA doesn't order anything for itself nowadays - IAG orders and BA takes what it gets given.
 
bond787
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:34 pm

787 and/or 777X?
 
axiom
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:39 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
BA doesn't order anything for itself nowadays - IAG orders and BA takes what it gets given.


This is an absurd statement without any basis in reality. Yes, multi-billion dollar, decades-long capital investment decisions are made on whims without intense deliberation by all stakeholders.

Perhaps BA should Brexit itself from IAG...
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:44 pm

Seems that a 777-X order is relatively likely. 777-9 forms a modest upgauge to the A350-1000s they have on order, and helps replace all those 747-400s that BA owns. 787-9s and 787-10s seem capable replacements for BA's 777-200ERs (especially given BA doesn't really fly many very-long-haul routes, and tends to prefer lower-density configurations).

Split 787/777X order is possible, certainly.

The A350-900 is a great jet but BA probably doesn't need it given their network, alliance partners etc.
 
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vhtje
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:50 pm

Linked Article wrote:
"The airline chief said that he was also having "very good dialogue" with U.S. firm General Electric over new engines for both narrow and wide-body planes"


My detective work on what "wide body" might mean... The A350 is ruled out since the A350 is exclusively Trent 1000. BA has RR on its 787s.
The 777-X, with its GE9X engines, on the other hand...

So - my detective work suggests the Boeing order is for 777-X, variant TBC. (And that there must be an order coming for GE-powered narrow bodies!)
Last edited by vhtje on Fri May 04, 2018 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CX747
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:53 pm

bond787 wrote:
787 and/or 777X?


I would have to agree.

787- Additional growth, possible up gauge for A321 routes, replacement for 747-400s in certain usages.

777X- Replacement for the 747-400 fleet of 18+ aircraft that will still be providing sterling service through the early-mid 2020s.

NMA- Shock the world, launch the new NMA “Trans-Atlantic” beast and take the lead on new routes from LHR/LGW.
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Polot
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 1:58 pm

Who knows maybe they will surprise us and order a few 777-8, put them in premium heavy configuration, and get the jump on QF over SYD-LHR nonstop.
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:00 pm

Polot wrote:
Who knows maybe they will surprise us and order a few 777-8, put them in premium heavy configuration, and get the jump on QF over SYD-LHR nonstop.


Unlikely. What other routes would BA use them on besides LHR - SYD/MEL? Not only that but even in a premium-heavy configuration its dicey if the jets can make it without at least a little tinkering from Boeing.

It makes far more sense for BA to let Qantas handle those routes and codeshare on Qantas's flights. QF has several routes on which a 777-8 (perhaps ER?) would be useful.... SYD/MEL to LHR and JFK, perhaps CDG and FRA. Maybe flights to Dallas with the plane carrying a lot of belly cargo. So rather than BA getting a small subfleet of the 777-8s (with necessary specializations) for only two routes or so, it is far more sensible for Qantas to get those jets and for the airlines to codeshare.
 
SKAirbus
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:00 pm

I wonder if the A350-900 could make a good replacement for the LGW fleet. Those clapped out 777-200s won't be around forever.
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Polot
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:11 pm

SKAirbus wrote:
I wonder if the A350-900 could make a good replacement for the LGW fleet. Those clapped out 777-200s won't be around forever.

Aren’t they in the middle of reconfiguring them to 10Y? In any event I would expect BA to just move LHR based 777s to LGW over time and use the new 777 replacement (whatever it is) at LHR while keeping LGW 777 only.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:13 pm

I doubt the order will be for the 778 or 779. It sounds to me as though this is for aircraft in a relatively short timescale, since that seems to be BA's issue at the moment. It isn't just the 787 issues, but the Monarch slots as well. My money is on end of line 77Ws for growth and/or 788s to open up new routes.
 
Sooner787
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:14 pm

I'm betting on quite a few 78J's ....also curiuos if they opt for GE engines instead of thr RR Trents.

BA can't be happy with the current RR engine mess and might take the chance to send a strong message to RR
 
bigjku
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:14 pm

SKAirbus wrote:
I wonder if the A350-900 could make a good replacement for the LGW fleet. Those clapped out 777-200s won't be around forever.


My guess is something around 50 frames with about 30 787-10, a few more 9’s and then around 10-15 77X. It’s the most efficient solution for most of their routes.
 
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GCT64
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:26 pm

As someone who is mostly in Y (or WT as BA calls it), please no more 787s. They are so terrible for the majority who are back in the (actually often not very) cheap (but always cramped) seats.
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waly777
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:26 pm

I would guess either more 77W or maybe even the 779. Could also be 78J. Boeing and GE in the same statement implies a bit
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kaitak
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:32 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
I'm betting on quite a few 78J's ....also curiuos if they opt for GE engines instead of thr RR Trents.

BA can't be happy with the current RR engine mess and might take the chance to send a strong message to RR


i was just thinking the same thing myself; WW has fired a shot across RR's bows and has said that IAG/BA will be seeking compensation.

I think that an order for RR powered 787s is definitely out, at least for now; if they do get some more, they are likely to be GE powered. Interestingly, QR has offered extra capacity to BA and this has been acknowledged; they didn't say it was going to be 787s (could be 77Ws, of which QR has quite a few).

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ec-448335/

My guess is that a BA order for Boeing widebodies would be for 777-9s Can't see them needing -8s.
 
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Polot
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:37 pm

GCT64 wrote:
As someone who is mostly in Y (or WT as BA calls it), please no more 787s. They are so terrible for the majority who are back in the (actually often not very) cheap (but always cramped) seats.

Cramped and terrible but actually often not very cheap fits BA’s recent attitude towards Y and actions in regards to Y perfectly though.
 
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GCT64
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:54 pm

Polot wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
As someone who is mostly in Y (or WT as BA calls it), please no more 787s. They are so terrible for the majority who are back in the (actually often not very) cheap (but always cramped) seats.

Cramped and terrible but actually often not very cheap fits BA’s recent attitude towards Y and actions in regards to Y perfectly though.


Yes, I agree it is a general attitude towards Y, but it's particularly cramped and terrible on the 787.
I'm just booking a flight LHR - SJC and instead of arriving where I want to (SJC), I'm going to fly to SFO on the A380 (and then drive) in order to avoid the 787.
Our corporate travel agent (working for one of the very biggest providers) said "I’m yet to fly on one of BA’s 787s but you’re not the first person who’s been keen to avoid them! It’s a shame they’re not putting their A380 on more routes as it’s fantastic."
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bunumuring
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 2:54 pm

Hey guys,
I suspect an order for some end-of-the-line 777-300ERs.
Maybe, perhaps, possibly an order for a dozen or so 777-9s but I think unlikely at this time (though I hope to be proven wrong).
Like others in his thread, I just can't see BA ordering 777-8s.
As for 787s, I remember BA switching from GE to RR on 777-200/-200ERs, so maybe they'll do the reverse on the 787 in light of the Trent issues and order some additional 787s with GEnxs? In that case, would it be too late now for BA to swap the Trents currently planned for the already ordered 12 X 787-10s to GEnxs?
Cheers
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Heavierthanair
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:06 pm

G'day

I guess these are GE powered 787's destined for Iberia and Level, both these airlines operate GE powered A330'ies. New 787's will be required for expansion and eventual replacement of the A330. The A330NEO only comes with Rollers, that may give the Boeing/GE team the edge. Just my :twocents:

Cheers

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cv990Coronado
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:08 pm

After just flying on a BA A380 this is what they need from a passenger comfort point of view. Not the very noisy 777 or the very cramped but quietish 787.
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fernousdu972
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:11 pm

Didn't WW talk about an order for additional A380s ?

Would the potential 777-9 order nip a top-up A380 order in the bud ?
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Jayafe
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:17 pm

axiom wrote:
Perhaps BA should Brexit itself from IAG...


Then it wouldn't be in the same team than IB, and will be unable to steal profit from it to keep paying its pensions. They can't, they won't.
 
ap305
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:19 pm

I think this is for level.... BA look set with their orders.
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ap305
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:22 pm

This puts things into more perspective. It sounds as though WW is upset with rolls plus Airbus and wants more compensation than agreed.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-iag-re ... KKBN1I50L6
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Jayafe
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:27 pm

ap305 wrote:
I think this is for level.... BA look set with their orders.


There were rumours in the past of Level sending its A330s back to IB and getting 787s instead. That would make sense to match the passenger experience, the livery and the price of the tickets. Solid product wall-to-wall racing to the bottom.
 
c933103
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:39 pm

It could possibly be 797 launch order
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
ap305
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:50 pm

ap305 wrote:
This puts things into more perspective. It sounds as though WW is upset with rolls plus Airbus and wants more compensation than agreed.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-iag-re ... KKBN1I50L6


Oh crap I completely forgot who was one of their shareholders :rotfl:
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Carmitage
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 3:51 pm

Two scenarios
1) In order to prove a point to RR, they go to GE
2) in order to squeeze more compensation out of RR, they dangle a tasty order in front of their noses, with the unwritten threat that if they are not reasonable to their customer's grievances, there is always another willing engine supplier (although I also heard BA were about to sign for the 747-8 except the offer from GE for the engines was so appalling, they went with the A380)

I remember years ago a BA purchasing guy made the comment "we regard the contract as the starting point for negotiations, not the end" - I suspect there is some squirming going on with the RR commercial guys

I'd argue that 2) is more likely than 1), especially as they can't buy any Trent 1000 Package A, B or C (the types that are giving the problem) as they are not being produced since the middle of last year. The Trent 1000-TEN, which is now available for the 787, is based on the XWB core, which does not appear to have the sulpidation nor resonant IPC blade issues
 
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Jayafe
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 4:02 pm

c933103 wrote:
It could possibly be 797 launch order


And assigned for LHR-DTW exclusively.
 
texl1649
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 4:03 pm

I guess I'll be the loner who is skeptical on the elimination of RR for any future 787 orders for BA. I'm sure they'd get a killer deal, but the long term commonality and MRO relationships are tough to break.
 
jonnyclam123
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 4:29 pm

747-8i for LHR-DTW operated every hour.
 
pabloeing
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 4:31 pm

B777-9X is a perfect plane for BA and IB
 
parapente
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 4:38 pm

Reading this thread it's clear it could be 'any of the above'! I don't think he gave anything away to the general punter but it probably means something to those close to the matter.
In truth he shouldn't be giving anything away as it is price sensitive information.However it's getting clear that we will hear something concrete at Farnbrough.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: British Airways close to ordering Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 4:49 pm

XAM2175 wrote:
BA doesn't order anything for itself nowadays - IAG orders and BA takes what it gets given.


I imagine the board meetings at BA these days are something like that scene out of the film Oliver when he asks for more. More?????? I wonder if the Chairman of IAG also does a little dance and all of the executives join in. Boeings don't grow on trees, you know.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 4:53 pm

pabloeing wrote:
B777-9X is a perfect plane for BA and IB


Breaking fleet commonality in IB, specially with 1 single type, is something 100.000 miles far from perfect.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 4:57 pm

SKAirbus wrote:
I wonder if the A350-900 could make a good replacement for the LGW fleet. Those clapped out 777-200s won't be around forever.


They are hardly clapped out.
 
jakubz
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:02 pm

Polot wrote:
Who knows maybe they will surprise us and order a few 777-8, put them in premium heavy configuration, and get the jump on QF over SYD-LHR nonstop.


If they really want to surprise us then they would order the 747-8... :duck:
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EChid
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:04 pm

pabloeing wrote:
B777-9X is a perfect plane for BA and IB


Except BA has, I believe, already stated that the A35X is meant to be the replacements for their 747s. BA is supposed to have all of larger widebodies they need, but we shall see.
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LAXintl
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:05 pm

I know for fact BA is heavily involved in reviewing the 777X.
Most recently they have been involved working with vendors to learn of cabin configuration options and revenue modeling to understand how the type would fit across their network.
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Polot
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:06 pm

EChid wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
B777-9X is a perfect plane for BA and IB


Except BA has, I believe, already stated that the A35X is meant to be the replacements for their 747s. BA is supposed to have all of larger widebodies they need, but we shall see.

BA has only 18 A35Ks on order plus 12 78Xs and a few -8/-9s left for delivery. Meanwhile they have 36 747s left. So no they are not set for larger widebodies unless they are going to be shrinking in the near future.
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:07 pm

How about a handful of 748s, just for nostalgia's sake?
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Tedd
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:10 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
I'm betting on quite a few 78J's ....also curiuos if they opt for GE engines instead of thr RR Trents.

BA can't be happy with the current RR engine mess and might take the chance to send a strong message to RR


It would be prudent to "send a strong message to RR" as if it was a deliberate self-inflicted decision to do themselves, BA & other Trent 1000 operators harm to their businesses! RR have been unfortunate with the blade coating issue, which has impacted the airlines badly, & while there could be a short-sighted ( even spiteful ) decision to make a change to GE by one or two airlines, BA won't be one of them.
 
bigjku
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:13 pm

Polot wrote:
EChid wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
B777-9X is a perfect plane for BA and IB


Except BA has, I believe, already stated that the A35X is meant to be the replacements for their 747s. BA is supposed to have all of larger widebodies they need, but we shall see.

BA has only 18 A35Ks on order plus 12 78Xs and a few -8/-9s left for delivery. Meanwhile they have 36 747s left. So no they are not set for larger widebodies unless they are going to be shrinking in the near future.


Throw in like 40 777-200’s. Now some probably are getting replaced by 787 already, but not all. An order for 50 widebodies isn’t unreasonable.
 
airzona11
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:14 pm

7810s on paper seem great for the mid-range from LHR. 777X for those high capacity long range routes. IAG/BA get to reap the advantage of A and B not really offering planes that are 1:1. They can fill in the gaps with different models for the different roles.
 
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Heavierthanair
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:14 pm

G'day

In this bit in the Reuters article https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-iag-r ... KKBN1I50L6

Quote:
IAG has had to rejig schedules to mitigate delays to A320neo planes built by Airbus (AIR.PA) and because of a Rolls-Royce (RR.L) engine issue on Boeing (BA.N) 787 Dreamliners.
Unquote

Willie blames Airbus for the A320NEO delays and RollsRoyce for the B787 engine issues. Both delays/issues are engine related, so why blame the airframe manufacturer in one case and the engine manufacturer in the other. To me that indicates he (IAG) wants more concessions from Airbus and RollsRoyce for a deal of their engine airframe combination, be that the A330NEO, the A350 or even the A380. More :twocents: for a total of 4 cents. I'll be broke if I post again :duck:

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
metroline2006
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Re: British Airways in talks to order Boeing Widebodies

Fri May 04, 2018 5:23 pm

I’m just wondering if Willie might be trying to get Airbus to drop there A380 price. On another note with the extra LGW slots could there be a case from BA / IAG to take some A339 or even the totally unloved A338 which could replace the B763 fleet as the A321 are a little small.

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