RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3827
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Sat May 05, 2018 9:38 pm

Good news! As one of the routes announced for this year by Avianca Holdings' president Germán Rincón, BOG-ORD has been loaded in the system as a 4x weekly A319 operation starting on November 17, 2018 as follows:

AV082 BOG 14:58 20:38 ORD 319 1356
AV083 ORD 22:01 05:15+1 BOG 319 1356

Given that Chicago has much larger demand to Colombia than Boston and that BOS is already going daily soon, I would expect ORD to be a daily flight by 4Q2019-1Q 2020. Both airports are strategic connecting hubs serving large metro areas.

I also hear the deal with UA is almost sealed.
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Sun May 06, 2018 11:03 pm

This should please many here.

I just hope AV starts looking at other cities like LAS and ATL
Felipe Carrillo
 
RainerBoeing777
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Sun May 06, 2018 11:13 pm

I think BOG-EWR and BOG-IAH need to be inaugurated, excellent growth! I hope they add more routes like San Francisco, Toronto and Montreal. The good thing is that all these routes can fly by Airbus A321neo
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Sun May 06, 2018 11:24 pm

Why EWR when they already do JFK? I get it’s a Star hub but it doesn’t seem like a priority destination. Apparently Houston is going to be announced pretty soon
Felipe Carrillo
 
mabadia71
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:02 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 1:53 am

pipeafcr wrote:
Why EWR when they already do JFK? I get it’s a Star hub but it doesn’t seem like a priority destination. Apparently Houston is going to be announced pretty soon

They already fly SAL-EWR and it appears to do very well. There's a large Colombia diaspora in New Jersey which I'm sure would prefer to fly out of EWR than JFK
mabadia71
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2333
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 2:29 am

mabadia71 wrote:
There's a large Colombia diaspora in New Jersey which I'm sure would prefer to fly out of EWR than JFK


That's true, although it's curious that it doesn't seem to be a market that's been particularly growing. I don't know the dynamics of the market, but maybe it's diaspora that halted its growth pace after the 90s and doesn't fly much home or doesn't generate that much VFR traffic, who knows. UA has been rather stagnant in the EWR-BOG route for many years (compared to IAH-BOG at least) with a sole 1x daily 73G flight (they barely announced a second seasonal frequency just this year). Avianca doesn't seem to find EWR attractive enough and haven't shown much interest in returning to Newark from Colombia throughout these years (the SAL-EWR route was inherited from TACA). They've clearly preferred to consolidate over at JFK where they have constantly made new developments (regular 787s, one of the A320NEO launch markets, served from several cities in Colombia, etc).
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 3:38 am

Wouldn’t be surprised to see UA codesharing on the flight soon. I suspect an A320 can just barely get from BOG to ORD with a full pax load (A321 probably not happening due to take off and stage climb performance) ... hopefully provides enough growth opportunities for the carriers to work together. Same story at EWR but on UA metal.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3480
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 4:31 am

RCS763AV wrote:
Good news! As one of the routes announced for this year by Avianca Holdings' president Germán Rincón, BOG-ORD has been loaded in the system as a 4x weekly A319 operation starting on November 17, 2018 as follows:

AV082 BOG 14:58 20:38 ORD 319 1356
AV083 ORD 22:01 05:15+1 BOG 319 1356

Given that Chicago has much larger demand to Colombia than Boston and that BOS is already going daily soon, I would expect ORD to be a daily flight by 4Q2019-1Q 2020. Both airports are strategic connecting hubs serving large metro areas.

I also hear the deal with UA is almost sealed.


I would disagree that ORD has more demand to Colombia than BOS.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5954
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 8:26 am

usflyer msp wrote:
RCS763AV wrote:
Good news! As one of the routes announced for this year by Avianca Holdings' president Germán Rincón, BOG-ORD has been loaded in the system as a 4x weekly A319 operation starting on November 17, 2018 as follows:

AV082 BOG 14:58 20:38 ORD 319 1356
AV083 ORD 22:01 05:15+1 BOG 319 1356

Given that Chicago has much larger demand to Colombia than Boston and that BOS is already going daily soon, I would expect ORD to be a daily flight by 4Q2019-1Q 2020. Both airports are strategic connecting hubs serving large metro areas.

I also hear the deal with UA is almost sealed.


I would disagree that ORD has more demand to Colombia than BOS.


ORD does have slightly more demand to Colombia than BOS however both markets are actually quite small. For BOS, its about connections to other parts of South America. For ORD, its about connections to other parts of the US.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3827
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 4:57 pm

My statement is purely based on the Colombian community being larger in Chicago and Chicago based companies being more present in the Colombian market than Boston based companies (Abbott, Mondelez, McDonald's, Boeing) vs Boston (GE, Liberty).

I agree with the above post with regard to the adequate volume needed for these routes outside peak travel times, which is provided by connections to other south american countris and other Colombian cities.
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3827
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 4:58 pm

My statement is purely based on the Colombian community being larger in Chicago and Chicago based companies being more present in the Colombian market than Boston based companies (Abbott, Mondelez, McDonald's, Boeing) vs Boston (GE, Liberty).

I agree with the above post with regard to the adequate volume needed for these routes outside peak travel times, which is provided by connections to other south american countries and other Colombian cities.
 
avi8
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 5:32 pm

Interesting. They are also launching GUA-ORD daily with little connectivity, meaning they are targeting Guatemalan O/D. I have no doubt BOG-ORD will be a success given the local demand and the impressive BOG hub.
avi8
 
Etheereal
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Mon May 07, 2018 6:02 pm

Why is AV releasing these routes when they're having several issues with their domestic work.

Its like they want to get fined by a proper authority.
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3827
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Tue May 08, 2018 4:05 am

Etheereal wrote:
Why is AV releasing these routes when they're having several issues with their domestic work.

Its like they want to get fined by a proper authority.


Which issues? The pilot shortage created by the illegal strike and further layoff of some pilots at the Colombian branch will be resolved by June 2018, which is when the domestic network will start operating at 100% again (right now it is operating at 96% of pre-strike capacity). No other issues have been reported, and disruptions have been minimal. Furthermore, all of these "new" routes operated by the Colombian branch (the central america and Peru branches are other companies within the holding) are to start on November 2018. Why would they be fined? What is a "proper authority" in your view?

Please elaborate a bit...
 
danimarroquin
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:06 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Tue May 08, 2018 1:17 pm

For sure the next destination for AV has to be TPA and LAS .
 
Etheereal
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Tue May 08, 2018 1:42 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
Why is AV releasing these routes when they're having several issues with their domestic work.

Its like they want to get fined by a proper authority.


Which issues? The pilot shortage created by the illegal strike and further layoff of some pilots at the Colombian branch will be resolved by June 2018, which is when the domestic network will start operating at 100% again (right now it is operating at 96% of pre-strike capacity). No other issues have been reported, and disruptions have been minimal. Furthermore, all of these "new" routes operated by the Colombian branch (the central america and Peru branches are other companies within the holding) are to start on November 2018. Why would they be fined? What is a "proper authority" in your view?

Please elaborate a bit...

Alright, let me explain a bit: They're increasing route(s) frecuency while being understaffed on pilots for those domestic operations, so what happens is that you get several delays and/or cancellations, such as the ones in Cucuta (Camilo Daza Intl), several delays to Cartagena, Medellin and New York, when they dont even comply with regulations, but because our corps are very lax with them, nothing happens.

I had a flight to BOG from MDE on April 27th, and my flight left more than an hour late because they didnt have the plane available for the BOG-MDE path.
 
Etheereal
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Wed May 09, 2018 5:02 am

RCS763AV wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
Why is AV releasing these routes when they're having several issues with their domestic work.

Its like they want to get fined by a proper authority.


Which issues? The pilot shortage created by the illegal strike and further layoff of some pilots at the Colombian branch will be resolved by June 2018, which is when the domestic network will start operating at 100% again (right now it is operating at 96% of pre-strike capacity). No other issues have been reported, and disruptions have been minimal. Furthermore, all of these "new" routes operated by the Colombian branch (the central america and Peru branches are other companies within the holding) are to start on November 2018. Why would they be fined? What is a "proper authority" in your view?

Please elaborate a bit...

Take a look at this tweet, after translating it (if needed) https://twitter.com/GizethAmaya/status/ ... 4593302529
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Wed May 09, 2018 6:16 am

danimarroquin wrote:
For sure the next destination for AV has to be TPA and LAS .


TPA is not in the books and LAS was but from Central America. Rumor has it that Houston is the next one to be announced from BOG.

By looking at the March numbers (from BOG to any US city not served by AV), the top ones are Houston, Atlanta, Newark, and Dallas in that order so the IAH wouldn't surprise me to come true soon

IAH 15218
ATL 10579
EWR 7533
DFW 4634
ORD 2220 (Due to start)
SFO 1819
TPA 1339
BWI 1101
LAS 826
DEN 756
PHL 628
Felipe Carrillo
 
winGl3t
Posts: 318
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:52 pm

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Wed May 09, 2018 12:00 pm

With oil industry growing back IAH would be a good addition to conect many TX HQ to Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Argentina and Brazil
 
juan885
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Wed May 09, 2018 2:06 pm

But with UA flying twice daily IAH-BOG, would it make more sense for AV to fly elsewhere? SFO I hope
 
dcajet
Posts: 4291
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Wed May 09, 2018 3:16 pm

juan885 wrote:
But with UA flying twice daily IAH-BOG, would it make more sense for AV to fly elsewhere? SFO I hope


COPA has the SFO market covered, with 3 dailies. AV already flies to SFO from Central America.

avi8 wrote:
Interesting. They are also launching GUA-ORD daily with little connectivity, meaning they are targeting Guatemalan O/D. I have no doubt BOG-ORD will be a success given the local demand and the impressive BOG hub.


The Central American diaspora can be found far and wide across the USA, with Salvadoreans and Guatemalans the largest groups and an increasing number of Hondurans. These groups ensure feed at major cities over the USA.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5954
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Wed May 09, 2018 4:31 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
My statement is purely based on the Colombian community being larger in Chicago and Chicago based companies being more present in the Colombian market than Boston based companies (Abbott, Mondelez, McDonald's, Boeing) vs Boston (GE, Liberty).

I agree with the above post with regard to the adequate volume needed for these routes outside peak travel times, which is provided by connections to other south american countries and other Colombian cities.


Not true actually. If you compare the CSA as opposed to the MSA, there are more Colombians in the Boston area than Chicago. There are 46k Colombians in the Boston/Providence/Worcester Area vs 26k in the Chicago/Racine/Naperville/Aurora Area.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3827
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Thu May 10, 2018 6:40 pm

Etheereal wrote:
Alright, let me explain a bit: They're increasing route(s) frecuency while being understaffed on pilots for those domestic operations, so what happens is that you get several delays and/or cancellations, such as the ones in Cucuta (Camilo Daza Intl), several delays to Cartagena, Medellin and New York, when they dont even comply with regulations, but because our corps are very lax with them, nothing happens.

I had a flight to BOG from MDE on April 27th, and my flight left more than an hour late because they didnt have the plane available for the BOG-MDE path.


Ok, first of all, delays on airlines can happen due to delayed/unavailable equipment, or any number of reasons. This is not a practice/event common at AV , but rather at every career in the world. To go from experiencing certain anecdotal, non-systematic delays (I'm talking after the strike) to saying the airline has a punctuality problem caused by bad practices or saying the authorities have a laissez faire attitude is a statement which should be supported by numbers.

Its been understood that AV has more than plenty of new pilots which are coming online in the next couple of months to replace those who have been laid off. Meanwhile, AV has transferred a couple more international flights to its subsidiaries (BOG-MIA and BOG-GRU rotations), cut some frequencies on domestic routes and added larger equipment in order to be more efficient in using their capacity. And again, the new ex-Colombia (which is really the only country with pilot shortages) routes are not coming online until November, when the airlines expects to have been fully operational for over a month.

Also, why are you saying that Avianca is not complying with regulations for wet leasing WAMOS equipment for the BOG-JFK route? Such practice is entirely permitted by aeronautical regulations. So much so, that direct competitor LATAM is also wet leasing WAMOS aircraft due to its own 787 issues.

I'm not defending the airline or anyone in particular, it's just that I really don't understand the point of your complaint regarding the thread or the launch of the BOG-ORD route.

LAXdude1023 wrote:
RCS763AV wrote:
My statement is purely based on the Colombian community being larger in Chicago and Chicago based companies being more present in the Colombian market than Boston based companies (Abbott, Mondelez, McDonald's, Boeing) vs Boston (GE, Liberty).

I agree with the above post with regard to the adequate volume needed for these routes outside peak travel times, which is provided by connections to other south american countries and other Colombian cities.


Not true actually. If you compare the CSA as opposed to the MSA, there are more Colombians in the Boston area than Chicago. There are 46k Colombians in the Boston/Providence/Worcester Area vs 26k in the Chicago/Racine/Naperville/Aurora Area.


Well numbers say it, the BOS area has more Colombians. Of course, VFR is just part of the demand but this is something. Thanks for the information.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5954
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Thu May 10, 2018 7:30 pm

RCS763AV wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:
RCS763AV wrote:
My statement is purely based on the Colombian community being larger in Chicago and Chicago based companies being more present in the Colombian market than Boston based companies (Abbott, Mondelez, McDonald's, Boeing) vs Boston (GE, Liberty).

I agree with the above post with regard to the adequate volume needed for these routes outside peak travel times, which is provided by connections to other south american countries and other Colombian cities.


Not true actually. If you compare the CSA as opposed to the MSA, there are more Colombians in the Boston area than Chicago. There are 46k Colombians in the Boston/Providence/Worcester Area vs 26k in the Chicago/Racine/Naperville/Aurora Area.


Well numbers say it, the BOS area has more Colombians. Of course, VFR is just part of the demand but this is something. Thanks for the information.


That wasnt meant to take away from the case of ORD-BOG. It was just an observation. Im a part time demographer so I keep my ears close to the ground on that kind of thing. :)
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3827
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Thu May 10, 2018 7:45 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
RCS763AV wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Not true actually. If you compare the CSA as opposed to the MSA, there are more Colombians in the Boston area than Chicago. There are 46k Colombians in the Boston/Providence/Worcester Area vs 26k in the Chicago/Racine/Naperville/Aurora Area.


Well numbers say it, the BOS area has more Colombians. Of course, VFR is just part of the demand but this is something. Thanks for the information.


That wasnt meant to take away from the case of ORD-BOG. It was just an observation. Im a part time demographer so I keep my ears close to the ground on that kind of thing. :)


As a geography/deomographics amateur enthusiast, I really appreciate it! Thanks haha!
 
Etheereal
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Fri May 11, 2018 1:09 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
Alright, let me explain a bit: They're increasing route(s) frecuency while being understaffed on pilots for those domestic operations, so what happens is that you get several delays and/or cancellations, such as the ones in Cucuta (Camilo Daza Intl), several delays to Cartagena, Medellin and New York, when they dont even comply with regulations, but because our corps are very lax with them, nothing happens.

I had a flight to BOG from MDE on April 27th, and my flight left more than an hour late because they didnt have the plane available for the BOG-MDE path.


Ok, first of all, delays on airlines can happen due to delayed/unavailable equipment, or any number of reasons. This is not a practice/event common at AV , but rather at every career in the world. To go from experiencing certain anecdotal, non-systematic delays (I'm talking after the strike) to saying the airline has a punctuality problem caused by bad practices or saying the authorities have a laissez faire attitude is a statement which should be supported by numbers.

Its been understood that AV has more than plenty of new pilots which are coming online in the next couple of months to replace those who have been laid off. Meanwhile, AV has transferred a couple more international flights to its subsidiaries (BOG-MIA and BOG-GRU rotations), cut some frequencies on domestic routes and added larger equipment in order to be more efficient in using their capacity. And again, the new ex-Colombia (which is really the only country with pilot shortages) routes are not coming online until November, when the airlines expects to have been fully operational for over a month.

Also, why are you saying that Avianca is not complying with regulations for wet leasing WAMOS equipment for the BOG-JFK route? Such practice is entirely permitted by aeronautical regulations. So much so, that direct competitor LATAM is also wet leasing WAMOS aircraft due to its own 787 issues.

I'm not defending the airline or anyone in particular, it's just that I really don't understand the point of your complaint regarding the thread or the launch of the BOG-ORD route.

LAXdude1023 wrote:
RCS763AV wrote:
My statement is purely based on the Colombian community being larger in Chicago and Chicago based companies being more present in the Colombian market than Boston based companies (Abbott, Mondelez, McDonald's, Boeing) vs Boston (GE, Liberty).

I agree with the above post with regard to the adequate volume needed for these routes outside peak travel times, which is provided by connections to other south american countries and other Colombian cities.


Not true actually. If you compare the CSA as opposed to the MSA, there are more Colombians in the Boston area than Chicago. There are 46k Colombians in the Boston/Providence/Worcester Area vs 26k in the Chicago/Racine/Naperville/Aurora Area.


Well numbers say it, the BOS area has more Colombians. Of course, VFR is just part of the demand but this is something. Thanks for the information.

Not saying that wet leasing goes against regulations, but you cant say "we'll give you avianca-like experience" on wamos, when its pretty much the opposite. Its false advertising, and goes against trade-commerce law.
What i dont like about those routes is that they're taking the 319s that are needed on the already problematic domestic route operations.
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3827
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Fri May 11, 2018 2:41 pm

Etheereal wrote:
Not saying that wet leasing goes against regulations, but you cant say "we'll give you avianca-like experience" on wamos, when its pretty much the opposite. Its false advertising, and goes against trade-commerce law.
What i dont like about those routes is that they're taking the 319s that are needed on the already problematic domestic route operations.


Again, you're using a false premise: the flights are clearly advertised as part of the Avianca schedule but operated by Wamos Air. The website warns buyers that the in flight experience will be different than the one they might expect at Avianca. No false advertising here, sorry.

Image

And secondly, again, those A319s (only on BOG-ord) are going to be used fron November when pilot shortages will have been overcome (the full schedule will be operational by Oct).

Sorry but you're not making a point.
 
Etheereal
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Fri May 11, 2018 3:29 pm

I know what the webpage says, and i know that there's a specific link that says the experience will be avianca like, when they say in the main page that they will be different. So they're contradicting each other.

Also, there's several news report from W radio, twitter and etc. that have said that even business class get shafted on both wamos and evelop flights. Seats dont recline, seats dirty, lame food or lame ife, etc.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Fri May 11, 2018 4:26 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
I think BOG-EWR and BOG-IAH need to be inaugurated, excellent growth! I hope they add more routes like San Francisco, Toronto and Montreal. The good thing is that all these routes can fly by Airbus A321neo


They already fly daily to Toronto with the A320ceo. Route was inherited from TACA, has been around for ages.
 
raddek
Posts: 327
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:09 pm

Re: BOG-ORD on AV finally launches

Fri May 11, 2018 5:14 pm

I'm sorry, but a 319 is just too small of an aircraft to be flying that route. They could grab more connecting traffic if they went to at least a 330.

Now, to the Wamos topic. I have flown them BOG to JFK twice this year. The service is good, especially since there are a few actual AV flight attendants on board as well.

The downside is that the planes are old and dated, and there really isn't any WiFi outside of the Wamos App that you have to download to watch pre loaded shows and movies. It is not an AV experience and how they bother to stick their name on that service is beyond me. They should have Wamos doing the GRU or something and send the AV 330s to JFK. The premium paying passengers probably pay a lot more than the ones to Brazil.

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