Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
dkny
Topic Author
Posts: 579
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:00 pm

Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 6:30 am

 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 6:39 am

Very odd/sketchy articles but it would be nice to see Ethiopian in Texas. It doesn’t mention a city, just “Texas.” I would imagine it would be Houston due to the Star Alliance hub there, but I’m pretty sure Dallas/DFW has a much larger Ethiopian community. I guess we’ll have to wait and see!
 
User avatar
neomax
Posts: 945
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:26 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 6:39 am

Houston.
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 6:48 am

Ethiopian has stated their interest on Houston after their last US city pick. Would not be surprised if the flight is launched from Houston.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18279
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 7:03 am

I'd like to see the receipts. There's just no way most/any of ET's longhaul network makes money.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
dredgy
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 7:53 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
I'd like to see the receipts. There's just no way most/any of ET's longhaul network makes money.


Well it’s actually a pretty good money maker for them. From my understanding a lot of their intra-African network is hamstrung by its inability to repatriate funds from certain countries, and by instability and depreciation of African currencies. Their intercontinental routes, even if not profitable (though all accounts indicate that they are) are source of stable foreign currency that is vital to the airline.

Every time I’ve flown them, load factors have been healthy and prices not particularly cheap.
 
slowrambler
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 12:14 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
I'd like to see the receipts. There's just no way most/any of ET's longhaul network makes money.


ET's profits for 2016-17 were $260M. What part of their network do you think makes the money?
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 12:21 pm

All kidding aside, IAH is the likely destination, however it is interesting that no one city is mentioned. Who knows, it might be DFW, unlikely, but stranger things have happened.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4381
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 12:53 pm

I'm surprised they're going via ACC to be honest, when they have a successful hub at DUB already - DUB has no link to Texas, is high-yielding in its own right, and a DUB stop makes for a shorter overall routing than with an ACC one:

ADD - DUB - IAH: 8,509 mi
ADD - ACC - IAH: 9,022 mi

Image

Cheers,

C.
 
csavel
Posts: 1407
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 1:00 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
I'm surprised they're going via ACC to be honest, when they have a successful hub at DUB already - DUB has no link to Texas, is high-yielding in its own right, and a DUB stop makes for a shorter overall routing than with an ACC one:

Cheers,

C.


I'm not actually. I imagine with the oil industry in Texas and booming oil discoveries in Ghana, Benin, etc. there would be decent traffic. Plus Ghana is the most stable country in West Africa and wealthy Nigerians park money there. I've been visiting Accra for the last 15 years and the last time I was there it was unrecognizable. Almost becoming the Dubai of West Africa.

Smart move!
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 1:01 pm

ACC? I’d understand if they were talking about LOS or another Nigerian airport but that one makes no sense. Almost all the demand to ACC comes from NYC and DC.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
tkoenig95
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 1:02 pm

With the oil industry quickly rising from the grave, Houston will pull by leaps and bounds to secure this flight. Very excited to see ET in Texas, nonetheless!
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 1:08 pm

csavel wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
I'm surprised they're going via ACC to be honest, when they have a successful hub at DUB already - DUB has no link to Texas, is high-yielding in its own right, and a DUB stop makes for a shorter overall routing than with an ACC one:

Cheers,

C.


I'm not actually. I imagine with the oil industry in Texas and booming oil discoveries in Ghana, Benin, etc. there would be decent traffic. Plus Ghana is the most stable country in West Africa and wealthy Nigerians park money there. I've been visiting Accra for the last 15 years and the last time I was there it was unrecognizable. Almost becoming the Dubai of West Africa.

Smart move!


Besides all that we need to rejoin the ‘6 Continent Club’. ;)
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
khowaga
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 1:25 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
ACC? I’d understand if they were talking about LOS or another Nigerian airport but that one makes no sense. Almost all the demand to ACC comes from NYC and DC.


Ghana has the 5th largest petroleum deposits in Africa, most of which has just started being developed in the last decade. Although I agree with you, it’s a bit of a risky bet since IAH-LOS (which is a much more established oil market) apparently never operated in the black.

There is their *A partner in IAH, if they can work out a codeshare arrangement, but ET and UA don’t appear to be cozy bedfellows...
 
evanb
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 3:46 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
I'd like to see the receipts. There's just no way most/any of ET's longhaul network makes money.


I have my doubts too. They have exceptionally low labor costs, probably the lowest of any major carrier in the world by a long way, and also exceptionally generous US financing of their Boeing aircraft. Both of these give them the lowest unit cost of any major airline in the world.
 
evanb
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 3:50 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
I'm surprised they're going via ACC to be honest, when they have a successful hub at DUB already - DUB has no link to Texas, is high-yielding in its own right, and a DUB stop makes for a shorter overall routing than with an ACC one:


I don't know what your definition of a hub is? They have 4 weekly flights from ADD-DUB-LAX with traffic rights, the others are just tech stop on west-bound sector. That's not a hub.

They'd rather look for 5th freedom through Africa where they have a strong brand and excellent distribution network, just like they have on ACC-LFW-EWR and soon on ACC-ABJ-EWR.
 
iadadd
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 6:24 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
I'd like to see the receipts. There's just no way most/any of ET's longhaul network makes money.


I'll agree that their North American services minus IAD and YYZ are rather strange. But I'm pretty sure ET is at least breaking even or close to doing so on these particular routes. I think ET views these services as a form of brand introduction, and long term strategy.

ET is notorious for being rather market driven; if they don't like the results of an operation they will easily drop or restructure the flight. The rest of the network is definitely money making. ET has strong brand recognition in Africa, and is additionally known for operating the most modern aircraft with good services, whereas most carriers send their worst cabins to Africa.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3970
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 6:26 pm

I hope this means they are adding second frequency to ADD-ACC not displacing local Accra passengers off of the already usually full ADD-ACC sector...
 
evanb
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 6:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
I hope this means they are adding second frequency to ADD-ACC not displacing local Accra passengers off of the already usually full ADD-ACC sector...


When you compare the current timings to the Addis Ababa-Lome-Newark flight, one could expect them to just continue to Houston:

The current ADD-ACC-ADD timing is as follows:
ADD ACC 8:40 am 11:20 am
ACC ADD 12:20pm 9:00pm

Consider ADD-LFW-EWR-LFW-ADD
ADD LFW 8:30am 11:00am
LFW EWR 12:00pm 7:00pm
EWR LFW 9:15am 11:35am
LFW ACC 12:35pm 9:10pm
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3970
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 7:10 pm

evanb wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I hope this means they are adding second frequency to ADD-ACC not displacing local Accra passengers off of the already usually full ADD-ACC sector...


When you compare the current timings to the Addis Ababa-Lome-Newark flight, one could expect them to just continue to Houston:

The current ADD-ACC-ADD timing is as follows:
ADD ACC 8:40 am 11:20 am
ACC ADD 12:20pm 9:00pm

Consider ADD-LFW-EWR-LFW-ADD
ADD LFW 8:30am 11:00am
LFW EWR 12:00pm 7:00pm
EWR LFW 9:15am 11:35am
LFW ACC 12:35pm 9:10pm


I am not sure about that - ACC-IAH is significantly longer than LFW-EWR so I doubt they could turn the aircraft in time to make it back to ACC in time to keep the existing schedule.

I could see them adding a second ADD-ACC flight a few days a week that continues to IAH
ADD ACC 11:00pm 1:40am
ACC IAH 2:45am 10:00 am
IAH ACC 7:00pm 1:00pm
ACC ADD 2:10pm 10:50pm
 
evanb
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 8:07 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
I am not sure about that - ACC-IAH is significantly longer than LFW-EWR so I doubt they could turn the aircraft in time to make it back to ACC in time to keep the existing schedule.

I could see them adding a second ADD-ACC flight a few days a week that continues to IAH
ADD ACC 11:00pm 1:40am
ACC IAH 2:45am 10:00 am
IAH ACC 7:00pm 1:00pm
ACC ADD 2:10pm 10:50pm


True. The current ADD-ACC-ADD timings are targeted towards Asian connections. I guess they might keep the current flight where it is. The Houston flight will likely be an extra (hopefully) and have a much later departure from Houston, to get an early morning arrival into Addis (similar to LAX times).
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13434
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 8:31 pm

iadadd wrote:
I'll agree that their North American services minus IAD and YYZ are rather strange.

...then you should come take a ride through the north Fairfax area here in LAX. ;)
So many Ethiopian (and east African in general) businesses/people that you'd think you stepped through a spatial warp.

It's easily the 2nd largest Ethiopian immigrant and the 2nd largest 1st-generation Ethiopian-American city in the USA; both after only WAS and both well ahead of NYC.

Not sure why YYZ is even considered a factor, considering that LAX alone has nearly three times more foreign born and 1st-generation Ethiopians than all of Canada, let alone just YYZ.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Sun May 06, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
kjeld0d
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 8:32 pm

mfe777 wrote:
Very odd/sketchy articles but it would be nice to see Ethiopian in Texas. It doesn’t mention a city, just “Texas.” I would imagine it would be Houston due to the Star Alliance hub there, but I’m pretty sure Dallas/DFW has a much larger Ethiopian community. I guess we’ll have to wait and see!


What about LBB? It *is* one of only 42 airports within the CNN Airport Network
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7410
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 8:35 pm

And people on here actually called me stupid for saying Ethiopian should come to IAH.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Airontario
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:04 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 9:03 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Not sure why YYZ is even considered a factor, considering that LAX alone has nearly three times more foreign born and 1st-generation Ethiopians than all of Canada, let alone just YYZ.


There's more to Ethiopian's operation than O&D at ADD. Their whole business model is opening up the entire African market to overseas destinations. I can assure you ET is doing well at YYZ.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13434
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 9:12 pm

Airontario wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Not sure why YYZ is even considered a factor, considering that LAX alone has nearly three times more foreign born and 1st-generation Ethiopians than all of Canada, let alone just YYZ.

I can assure you ET is doing well at YYZ.

No one suggested that they aren't.

The statement was to rebut the erroneous presumption that LAX is somehow a "strange" component of ET's network.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
2Holer4Longhaul
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:03 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 9:12 pm

If this is IAH they're going to, that puts the airport back in the 6-continent club. Thanks pretty exciting news in my opinion.
"You know, if you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything, wouldn't you, at any time? And you would achieve nothing!" - Margaret Thatcher
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 2419
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 10:44 pm

Wasn't Accra to Houston operated for a while by Atlas Air passenger aircraft? Very big oil route, with regional flights onward from Accra to the oil fields.
 
louA340
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:19 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 10:46 pm

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/ethiopian ... texas/amp/

This article confirms that the destination is IAD. I wonder what aircraft will be used. The current ADD-ACC is with an A359. But I've seen everything from a 737, 773 and 787 on the route in recent times.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 11:10 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
iadadd wrote:
I'll agree that their North American services minus IAD and YYZ are rather strange.

...then you should come take a ride through the north Fairfax area here in LAX. ;)
So many Ethiopian (and east African in general) businesses/people that you'd think you stepped through a spatial warp.

It's easily the 2nd largest Ethiopian immigrant and the 2nd largest 1st-generation Ethiopian-American city in the USA; both after only WAS and both well ahead of NYC.

Not sure why YYZ is even considered a factor, considering that LAX alone has nearly three times more foreign born and 1st-generation Ethiopians than all of Canada, let alone just YYZ.


Not true. The below is a list of the top 10 foreign born Ethiopian populations in the US. Honestly, only DC really has the bulk to make it work off that alone:

Ethiopia
1. Washington DC: 53,076 people
2. Minneapolis: 22,302
3. Seattle: 17,573
4. Atlanta: 16,520
5. Dallas: 9889
6. Los Angeles: 9479
7. Las Vegas: 7501
8. San Francisco: 6520
9. Houston: 6285
10. New York: 6021
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
iadadd
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 11:36 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
iadadd wrote:
I'll agree that their North American services minus IAD and YYZ are rather strange.

...then you should come take a ride through the north Fairfax area here in LAX. ;)
So many Ethiopian (and east African in general) businesses/people that you'd think you stepped through a spatial warp.

It's easily the 2nd largest Ethiopian immigrant and the 2nd largest 1st-generation Ethiopian-American city in the USA; both after only WAS and both well ahead of NYC.

Not sure why YYZ is even considered a factor, considering that LAX alone has nearly three times more foreign born and 1st-generation Ethiopians than all of Canada, let alone just YYZ.


Haha, I made a mistake by not adding LAX to my good list. As an Ethiopian-American, I actually have lots of family in SoCal and understand the volume of traffic. But YYZ also has a large Ethiopian community, and YYZ additionally has a hub to feed U.S. Midwest traffic
 
iadadd
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 11:40 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
iadadd wrote:
I'll agree that their North American services minus IAD and YYZ are rather strange.

...then you should come take a ride through the north Fairfax area here in LAX. ;)
So many Ethiopian (and east African in general) businesses/people that you'd think you stepped through a spatial warp.

It's easily the 2nd largest Ethiopian immigrant and the 2nd largest 1st-generation Ethiopian-American city in the USA; both after only WAS and both well ahead of NYC.

Not sure why YYZ is even considered a factor, considering that LAX alone has nearly three times more foreign born and 1st-generation Ethiopians than all of Canada, let alone just YYZ.


Not true. The below is a list of the top 10 foreign born Ethiopian populations in the US. Honestly, only DC really has the bulk to make it work off that alone:

Ethiopia
1. Washington DC: 53,076 people
2. Minneapolis: 22,302
3. Seattle: 17,573
4. Atlanta: 16,520
5. Dallas: 9889
6. Los Angeles: 9479
7. Las Vegas: 7501
8. San Francisco: 6520
9. Houston: 6285
10. New York: 6021


Ethiopian-American statistics are highly underestimated, as most of it conducted through surveys and "Ethiopian" is not a detailed option on the U.S. census unlike how the Asian category is further detailed into country specific boxes. That being said, LA is definitely a #2 or #3 in terms of the Ethio diaspora, there is no way Seattle or Dallas has a higher amount than LA.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 11:48 pm

iadadd wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
...then you should come take a ride through the north Fairfax area here in LAX. ;)
So many Ethiopian (and east African in general) businesses/people that you'd think you stepped through a spatial warp.

It's easily the 2nd largest Ethiopian immigrant and the 2nd largest 1st-generation Ethiopian-American city in the USA; both after only WAS and both well ahead of NYC.

Not sure why YYZ is even considered a factor, considering that LAX alone has nearly three times more foreign born and 1st-generation Ethiopians than all of Canada, let alone just YYZ.


Not true. The below is a list of the top 10 foreign born Ethiopian populations in the US. Honestly, only DC really has the bulk to make it work off that alone:

Ethiopia
1. Washington DC: 53,076 people
2. Minneapolis: 22,302
3. Seattle: 17,573
4. Atlanta: 16,520
5. Dallas: 9889
6. Los Angeles: 9479
7. Las Vegas: 7501
8. San Francisco: 6520
9. Houston: 6285
10. New York: 6021


Ethiopian-American statistics are highly underestimated, as most of it conducted through surveys and "Ethiopian" is not a detailed option on the U.S. census unlike how the Asian category is further detailed into country specific boxes. That being said, LA is definitely a #2 or #3 in terms of the Ethio diaspora, there is no way Seattle or Dallas has a higher amount than LA.


Everyone says this about their own ethnic group. EVERYBODY. Everyone thinks their own ethnic group is undercounted but the fact of the matter is that simply isn’t the case. The source of the numbers are from a branch of the census. And while Dallas and LA are close enough to one another to be within the margin of error, Minneapolis, Seattle, and Atlanta definitely have more foreign born Ethiopians than LA. Remember that foreign born residents are much more closely monitored than 1st or 2nd generation residents.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5373
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Sun May 06, 2018 11:56 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
And people on here actually called me stupid for saying Ethiopian should come to IAH.



They aren't in Houston yet until it happens it's just another rumor.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 12:01 am

Id also like to add LA, gets few immigrants from Ethiopia compared to other metro areas. In 2016, the below metro areas gained the largest number of immigrants from Ethiopia. I have to emphasize these numbers are fully complete and correct. They come straight from the Department of Homeland Security. All immigrants have to register with a full address and that information is public. There is no margin of error and no room for argument:

DC: 2,938
Minneapolis: 1,123
Seattle: 968
Atlanta: 713
Denver: 595
DFW: 568
Las Vegas: 499
Houston: 268
LA: 248
San Francisco: 245
Chicago: 202
NYC: 155

The link is below. I would encourage you to go through the different years if you're interested in demographics. You can go all the way back to 1999 and see how many people from Ethiopia (and every other country) immigrated to specific metro areas. Once on the page, click "supplemental tables" and then look for "supplemental table 2". That has all the data:

https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statist ... rbook/2016
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
bfitzflyer
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 12:33 am

Surprised the SF bay area is not much higher, so many ethiopians here.
 
khowaga
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 12:44 am

Channex757 wrote:
Wasn't Accra to Houston operated for a while by Atlas Air passenger aircraft? Very big oil route, with regional flights onward from Accra to the oil fields.


That was Luanda (LAD), in Angola.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18279
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 2:42 am

slowrambler wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I'd like to see the receipts. There's just no way most/any of ET's longhaul network makes money.


ET's profits for 2016-17 were $260M. What part of their network do you think makes the money?

I’d guess anything within about a 6 hour radius from ADD pays for the rest of the network.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4381
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 3:30 am

evanb wrote:
That's not a hub.

Eh, according to several outlets, yes, it is.

See, for example:
- https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... to-dublin/.
- https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.2178315.

A hub doesn't have to be an ATL or IAH.

evanb wrote:
They'd rather look for 5th freedom through Africa where they have a strong brand ...

That so-called 'strong brand' will mean nothing if/when oil tanks again - starting routes on the premise of oil traffic (which is notoriously volatile) is a risky proposition.

IMO, it would've been much more sensible to go through DUB, which:

- Results in a shorter routing from ADD, than via ACC
- Is high-yielding and balanced (i.e. non-oil dependent)
- Already has ET US operations and ground contracts

Aside from these, ACC is less attractive for crew-layovers and transits - Ghana is endemic for yellow fever, as well as malaria, and is suffering from increased crime.

See: http://smartraveller.gov.au/Countries/a ... ghana.aspx.

Cheers,

C.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13434
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 3:51 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Not true. The below is a list of the top 10 foreign born Ethiopian populations in the US. Honestly, only DC really has the bulk to make it work off that alone:

Because that's only foreign born. I was mistaken on comparative city counts for foreign-born only (thanks Wikipedia), but accurately ranked on the combined total with the next generation, 90K+.


LAXdude1023 wrote:
iadadd wrote:
Ethiopian-American statistics are highly underestimated, as most of it conducted through surveys and "Ethiopian" is not a detailed option on the U.S. census unlike how the Asian category is further detailed into country specific boxes.

Everyone says this about their own ethnic group. EVERYBODY. Everyone thinks their own ethnic group is undercounted but the fact of the matter is that simply isn’t the case.

Based on what? I'd be shocked if EVERY ethnic group *wasn't* undercounted
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 4:14 am

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Not true. The below is a list of the top 10 foreign born Ethiopian populations in the US. Honestly, only DC really has the bulk to make it work off that alone:

Because that's only foreign born. I was mistaken on comparative city counts for foreign-born only (thanks Wikipedia), but accurately ranked on the combined total with the next generation, 90K+.


Two things:

1) You're basing the 90k number on what? I can see its written on Wikipedia with a dead link cited and its certainly incorrect. I can show you data that directly contradicts that and its below:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/program ... tical-area

2) How many 2nd and 3rd generation Ethiopians are flying to Ethiopia regularly.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13434
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 4:31 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
2) How many 2nd and 3rd generation Ethiopians are flying to Ethiopia regularly.

Or for that matter, how many first, if we're talking "regularly?" Higher than succeeding generations sure, but doubtful to be significant enough in/of itself significant enough to support routes of that length.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
dredgy
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 4:34 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
I’d guess anything within about a 6 hour radius from ADD pays for the rest of the network.


That includes a lot of corrupt countries that they can’t repatriate money from (Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Zimbabwe, Congo, Chad etc) and/or have unstable currencies. Doing business in Africa is hard, and to my understanding, it’s the long haul network that makes the actual money.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 4:37 am

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
2) How many 2nd and 3rd generation Ethiopians are flying to Ethiopia regularly.

Or for that matter, how many first, if we're talking "regularly?" Higher than succeeding generations sure, but doubtful to be significant enough in/of itself significant enough to support routes of that length.


Right, which is why I said only DC makes since when factoring VFR. LAX isn't out of nowhere simply because its such a massive market, it can fill planes most places even if its not profitable. However, the Ethiopian communities in any of these cities have to be an afterthought. The Ethiopian community in LA isn't going to fill even a weekly flight but couple the LAX market to other destinations in the ET network and it becomes more reasonable. If VFR were their goal, ET would have started MSP long before LAX or ORD since the community there is so much larger.

I suspect that, assuming this rumor is true, IAH is on the horizon for the same reason ORD was: they are big Star Alliance hubs. IAH has the added bonus of oil traffic to West Africa and Nigerian VFR even though the later isn't going to make much money (assuming connections will be allowed in ACC).
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
slowrambler
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 4:55 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
slowrambler wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I'd like to see the receipts. There's just no way most/any of ET's longhaul network makes money.


ET's profits for 2016-17 were $260M. What part of their network do you think makes the money?

I’d guess anything within about a 6 hour radius from ADD pays for the rest of the network.


Let me introduce this place called "China"... (most of Europe is also past the 6 hour mark from ADD.)

In all seriousness, ET doesn't mess around with prestige routes. If they fly to locations in North America, it's because they expect to make money.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18279
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 8:38 am

slowrambler wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
slowrambler wrote:

ET's profits for 2016-17 were $260M. What part of their network do you think makes the money?

I’d guess anything within about a 6 hour radius from ADD pays for the rest of the network.


Let me introduce this place called "China"... (most of Europe is also past the 6 hour mark from ADD.)

In all seriousness, ET doesn't mess around with prestige routes. If they fly to locations in North America, it's because they expect to make money.

Well aware. While ET probably is able to command a premium in this market, the fares are still regularly in the $700-900 range for what is essentially 15-20 hours of flying each way. That's ultimately $300-400 for the carrier, each way. China-Africa is like a mirage for a lot of carriers that end up getting burned by it, although ET is probably the dominant carrier. Europe is also incredibly competitive in large one stop markets (ie JNB) or tiny markets (ie OUA) where every North African carrier, EU major, TK, and ET are competing for crumbs.

dredgy wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I’d guess anything within about a 6 hour radius from ADD pays for the rest of the network.


That includes a lot of corrupt countries that they can’t repatriate money from (Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Zimbabwe, Congo, Chad etc) and/or have unstable currencies.

No question--a lot of those countries are also the most profitable too.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
behramjee
Posts: 5132
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 9:42 am

ET's core profits annually come from:

1. Intra Africa flying
2. Cargo operations
3. Maintenance unit

A vast majority of their long haul services make an "operating cash profit" but not "net profit".
 
slowrambler
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:07 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 11:54 am

behramjee wrote:
ET's core profits annually come from:

1. Intra Africa flying
2. Cargo operations
3. Maintenance unit

A vast majority of their long haul services make an "operating cash profit" but not "net profit".


Having difficulty finding public documents that justify this. In particular I would be very surprised if Africa-Africa flows dominated profit, as opposed to Africa-intercontinental transit. In the latter case it's purely a matter of accounting where the "profit" is, because (e.g.) if they did not operate ADD-CAN, they would have fewer passengers on ENU-ADD.
 
evanb
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 2:36 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Eh, according to several outlets, yes, it is.


I'm not sure how you or these outlets would define a hub, but the generally accepted term is an airport when an airline connects passengers from one flight to another, usually multiple. Ethiopian does not do this at Dublin. They simply refuel some of their westbound North American flights there. Only LAX stops in Dublin on the eastbound leg, and only LAX has passenger rights to/from Dublin, so that is one passenger flight 4x per week only.

planemanofnz wrote:
That so-called 'strong brand' will mean nothing if/when oil tanks again - starting routes on the premise of oil traffic (which is notoriously volatile) is a risky proposition.

IMO, it would've been much more sensible to go through DUB, which:

- Results in a shorter routing from ADD, than via ACC
- Is high-yielding and balanced (i.e. non-oil dependent)
- Already has ET US operations and ground contracts

Aside from these, ACC is less attractive for crew-layovers and transits - Ghana is endemic for yellow fever, as well as malaria, and is suffering from increased crime.


Firstly, you're assuming that the Accra-Houston traffic will all be oil related or dependent. I think this is a poor assumption. Accra-New York and Accra-Washington have been strong performing routes for Delta and SAA for some time, even when oil prices were low. Houston is a strong Star Alliance hub and will be more than just an oil route. Secondly, given ET's already strong US operations, this increases their understanding of the market and hence reduced the risk of starting a new US route. Hub-to-hub routes are generally lower risk than non-hub routes. Thirdly, strong yields are not what drives ET. They have the lowest unit cost of any major global airline and they thrive on filling the plane, not driven entirely by yield. For example, their unit cost is more than 30% lower than BA's. But also, why the assumption that Dublin will have a higher yield? While it might be higher income country, there is also a lot more competition, and unlike the competition in Dublin, they don't have a TAJV. And finally, I don't think Accra is any less attractive for crew-layovers. ET crews layover in yellow fever and malaria endemic countries all the time. And in terms of transits, it's probably way better than some neighboring countries like Nigeria.

if Dublin were such a good option they'd already be seeking 5th freedom routes from Dublin to Chicago, Newark, Washington and Toronto, but they're not.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4381
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 2:40 pm

evanb wrote:
... if Dublin were such a good option they'd already be seeking 5th freedom routes from Dublin to Chicago, Newark, Washington and Toronto, but they're not.

AFAIK, they actually did seek those, but couldn't get them - LAX was granted because, at the time, no other carrier served LAX from DUB (unlike with the others). I'd be confident that, under the same premise, ET would get 5th freedom rights to IAH, as no airline currently flies between Ireland and Texas.

That being said, ET probably knows more than me, so ...

Cheers,

C.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos