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yellowtail
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 3:44 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
evanb wrote:
That's not a hub.

Ghana is endemic for yellow fever, as well as malaria, and is suffering from increased crime.

C.


As opposed to the yellow fever, malaria and high crime countries they don't fly to in Latin America or SE Asia?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
evanb
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 4:44 pm

yellowtail wrote:
As opposed to the yellow fever, malaria and high crime countries they don't fly to in Latin America or SE Asia?


Last time I checked, large parts of Ethopia are prone to yellow fever transmission. Malaria as well, although not in Addis though.
 
guyanam
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 6:15 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
[
Everyone says this about their own ethnic group. EVERYBODY. Everyone thinks their own ethnic group is undercounted but the fact of the matter is that simply isn’t the case. The source of the numbers are from a branch of the census. And while Dallas and LA are close enough to one another to be within the margin of error, Minneapolis, Seattle, and Atlanta definitely have more foreign born Ethiopians than LA. Remember that foreign born residents are much more closely monitored than 1st or 2nd generation residents.


The fact is that black immigrant groups ARE under counted. The census allows break downs by major national categories for Asians and Hispanics. For "Black/African American" there is none such. So one relies on the "last place of residence" so that as black immigrants live in the USA longer and move about they are counted as merely "Black/African American".

So in fact its in the cities of secondary migration where black immigrants are especially likely to be under counted.
 
guyanam
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 6:22 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Id All immigrants have to register with a full address and that information is public
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statist ... rbook/2016



Really? I am an immigrant and Homeland Security never told me to register with them. Where do people get these ideas from? As disappointed as Trump supporters are there is actually limited monitoring of immigrants living in the USA, and this even includes those illegally present.

The Federal government doesn't know anything more about immigrants than they know about others living in the USA. Once you get your permanent residence they care little about you unless you break the law. And when you naturalize as a US citizen they no longer define you as an immigrant. Its precisely the more upwardly mobile immigrants, who have the income to travel who most likely naturalize.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 6:23 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
I'm surprised they're going via ACC to be honest, when they have a successful hub at DUB already - DUB has no link to Texas, is high-yielding in its own right, and a DUB stop makes for a shorter overall routing than with an ACC one:

ADD - DUB - IAH: 8,509 mi
ADD - ACC - IAH: 9,022 mi

Image

Cheers,

C.

:checkmark: I agree. Can't see how ACC-IAH would make any sense. They fly to LAX through DUB and will fly to ORD through DUB as well. Didn't United end a route from IAH to Africa not too long ago? Can't imagine that the LF and/or yields were sustainable there and I'm not really sure that the market has improved very much since then...
 
guyanam
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 6:24 pm

evanb wrote:
yellowtail wrote:
As opposed to the yellow fever, malaria and high crime countries they don't fly to in Latin America or SE Asia?


Last time I checked, large parts of Ethopia are prone to yellow fever transmission. Malaria as well, although not in Addis though.



Ghana is considerably more developed than is Ethiopia, lacks its own national carrier, so its no shock that ET will spot an opportunity to fill a gap not served by a US carrier.
 
evanb
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 7:44 pm

FA9295 wrote:
I agree. Can't see how ACC-IAH would make any sense. They fly to LAX through DUB and will fly to ORD through DUB as well. Didn't United end a route from IAH to Africa not too long ago? Can't imagine that the LF and/or yields were sustainable there and I'm not really sure that the market has improved very much since then...


Yeah, but ET's 30 percent lower unit cost and significantly more developed distribution on the African side will give them a better chance of success. They're seemingly happy enough with their 5th freedom traffic on ADD-LFW-EWR to want to start both ADD-ABJ-EWR and ACC-ACC-IAH.
 
aklrno
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 7:54 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
iadadd wrote:
I'll agree that their North American services minus IAD and YYZ are rather strange.

...then you should come take a ride through the north Fairfax area here in LAX. ;)
So many Ethiopian (and east African in general) businesses/people that you'd think you stepped through a spatial warp.

It's easily the 2nd largest Ethiopian immigrant and the 2nd largest 1st-generation Ethiopian-American city in the USA; both after only WAS and both well ahead of NYC.

Not sure why YYZ is even considered a factor, considering that LAX alone has nearly three times more foreign born and 1st-generation Ethiopians than all of Canada, let alone just YYZ.

Maybe you mean South Fairfax area? The section called "Little Ethiopia"?
 
ETinCaribe
Posts: 474
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 8:09 pm

My money is on Lubbock, Texas :)

Jokes aside, interesting discussions. ET's and all other major carriers' game is one of economies of scale. ET has a vast network in Africa, and competes against the majors in Europe and ME3+TK everyday, all day. But their mix of customers (VFR, tourists, business travelers, Chinese expats, and most importantly traders) that helps it weather many storms, including oil price fluctuations, decline in tourism, currency fluctuations, restrictions on hard currency transfers, etc. Just like an insurance company, I think the name of the game is spreading the risk to not live or die by a single or handful of routes.

As mentioned, cargo is an unsung hero for ET, from all indications. I don't have any insider data but I would suspect that cargo is one of the largest sources of profits for the airline.

I like the "partner with everyone" approach that ET is taking. If the ACC-IAH route materializes, ET will fly from three different points in West Africa to the US, not too bad. And if oil prices tank, hedging not withstanding, ET will take that any day as their biggest cost center will also tank and they can shut the flights to IAH if the demand is no longer there.

I can see ET doing IAH-ACC-LOS (and other points within Nigeria) for instance to capture the Nigerian VFR traffic that may now go through ATL/JFK or Europe. Since it cannot get 5th freedom in Nigeria, ET is using launchpads within West Africa to get into Nigeria via a 1-stop. ET will feed ASKY, Air Cote d'Ivoire, a Ghanaian airline, and take care of the transatlantic sector. The ADD and other East Africa points will be nice add-ons and provide some of the overall load.

Re: malaria, yellow fever, etc. ET has operated in some of the most difficult situations in Ethiopia and Africa over decades; that is just not going to figure prominently on their radar screen, if you will...
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Mon May 07, 2018 9:03 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
I'm surprised they're going via ACC to be honest, when they have a successful hub at DUB already - DUB has no link to Texas, is high-yielding in its own right, and a DUB stop makes for a shorter overall routing than with an ACC one:

ADD - DUB - IAH: 8,509 mi
ADD - ACC - IAH: 9,022 mi

Image

Cheers,

C.


There's lots of competition to IAH through European hubs. Perhaps ACC offers better chances of picking up more traffic between IAH and Africa.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 12:42 am

guyanam wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Id All immigrants have to register with a full address and that information is public
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statist ... rbook/2016



Really? I am an immigrant and Homeland Security never told me to register with them. Where do people get these ideas from? As disappointed as Trump supporters are there is actually limited monitoring of immigrants living in the USA, and this even includes those illegally present.

The Federal government doesn't know anything more about immigrants than they know about others living in the USA. Once you get your permanent residence they care little about you unless you break the law. And when you naturalize as a US citizen they no longer define you as an immigrant. Its precisely the more upwardly mobile immigrants, who have the income to travel who most likely naturalize.


Where did I say that? I said when you immigrate to the country, you absolutely do have to provide an address. Of course once you have residency you can come and go as you please. My wife’s family are immigrants and we’ve been through this too. This is how they know how many immigrants are moving to a particular area with certainty. The total immigrant population of a city is an estimate but the methodology is solid.

I am anything but a trump voter. I loathe him.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
ghdc10
Posts: 40
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 2:21 am

planemanofnz wrote:
evanb wrote:
That's not a hub.

Eh, according to several outlets, yes, it is.

See, for example:
- https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... to-dublin/.
- https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.2178315.

A hub doesn't have to be an ATL or IAH.

evanb wrote:
They'd rather look for 5th freedom through Africa where they have a strong brand ...

That so-called 'strong brand' will mean nothing if/when oil tanks again - starting routes on the premise of oil traffic (which is notoriously volatile) is a risky proposition.

IMO, it would've been much more sensible to go through DUB, which:

- Results in a shorter routing from ADD, than via ACC
- Is high-yielding and balanced (i.e. non-oil dependent)
- Already has ET US operations and ground contracts

Aside from these, ACC is less attractive for crew-layovers and transits - Ghana is endemic for yellow fever, as well as malaria, and is suffering from increased crime.

See: http://smartraveller.gov.au/Countries/a ... ghana.aspx.

Cheers,

C.


Rant alert: been a while since I posted. I need to unleash :-)

Where does one begin?.....I used to get quite upset with comments like these, and I would rant endlessly about ignorance. What I've come to understand is that it is all a matter of perspective. I am Ghanaian and live abroad, but you couldn't pay me to visit places like Greece and Italy simply because of the overt racism and xenophobia that make them quite an unattractive place for me to spend hard earned dollars. Yes, there is violent crime in Ghana( and increasingly so) and I am sure there is a lot more than yellow fever and malaria for communicable diseases you should be wary of. Africans know how to live and travel in Africa. ET crew will be just fine using their common sense to survive Accra the way they survive Addis Ababa where they're from. ET flies to Brazil and India with long crew layovers.

What we're discussing here is the business decision ET has made to stop in Accra en-route to IAH. I used to fly ET in the 90s from Accra - in those days a trip to Addis Ababa would stop in Lome AND Lagos (and if you were not lucky an additional unscheduled stop in either Kinshasa or Entebbe as well) Being an aviation nut, this was not a problem for me so long as I got my window seat and I remember the faces on those flights were overwhelmingly Sub-Saharan African. Those pioneering passengers who flew their classic 757-260s and 767-260s on multi-stop hops across Africa are what ETs business is built on. It has always been about value for money connecting Africa with Africa and the rest of the world.

I hear your point about Dublin being a shorter great circle route. I look at it this way: Addis-Ababa and Accra/Lagos/Abuja traffic to Houston have fewer options with more inconvenient stops and layovers in Europe/Middle East than the simple direct flight in the case of Accra and Addis Ababa traffic. Don't forget ET owns ASKY based in Lome and within West Africa we have our own version of open skies so they could feed Abuja/Lagos traffic to Accra direct on "their own metal". Exxon Mobil has a growing presence in Ghana and an established presence in Nigeria. I would be surprised if they didn't open even more routes from West Africa so they can corner the travel market there as they dance on the graves of the Ghana Airways, Air Afrique, Nigeria Airways, Arik Air intercontinental ops etc. There aren't enough direct, let alone non-stop transatlantic options from Accra and Lagos. 2 week return to Houston from Accra in economy is going for at least $2300 on Air France with a stop at CDG. Don't forget that one cannot book online for Delta flights to Ghana but Ethiopian even takes mobile money and so they are more targeted to African consumers, and rightly so!

ET has a lot going for it in terms of labor costs, but there is a finite number of passengers (O&D from Addis Ababa) and their future lies in other under-served areas of the continent. Over the last three years, the Turks have built a modern and functional 7-air-bridge airport terminal at Accra and it should be commissioned this summer.
Image Bigger is better, but this small airport terminal is beautiful for the fact that one can walk end to end in 10 mins. No getting lost here! Slowly, the foundations of a modern air transport industry are falling in place in West Africa. ET is in the running for a national carrier based in Accra. Very likely to add London ex-Accra if that does materialize, but I think the real network money is on Dubai/Mumbai/Delhi to Accra connecting with Sao Paulo. I like my pipe dreams - I smoke them hard!

Final point: I am elated the governments of Ghana, Togo and Ivory Coast have chosen to give out fifth freedom rights to African carriers for intercontinental services. Protectionism in African aviation has created too many 2-plane airlines who ultimately succumb to debtors. We need to stop building village champions.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 3:05 am

ghdc10 wrote:
Rant alert: been a while since I posted. I need to unleash :-)

...

Final point: I am elated the governments of Ghana, Togo and Ivory Coast have chosen to give out fifth freedom rights to African carriers for intercontinental services. Protectionism in African aviation has created too many 2-plane airlines who ultimately succumb to debtors. We need to stop building village champions.


Thank you for the informed perspective!

I hesitate to comment on threads like this, having no direct personal experience (in this case, sub-Saharan travel), but my first thought when reading all the "why would they?" or "why not Dublin" comments is do they also question Delta's JFK to Lagos route? My second thought is why is there any questioning of an African carriers desire to fly TATL from African cities? I am certain ET knows the market better than anyone.

If I lived in sub-Saharan Africa the very last thing I'd want to do is to connect thru Europe, much less backtrack thru ME3.
Personally, I am impressed with ET's route map, and see little reason to question their moves. Some things work, some things don't. Not every long haul has to go thru the same old hubs because of "premium pax" . I throw up in my mouth a little every time I read "yields are trash" here on a.net.
 
guyanam
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 3:13 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
[
Where did I say that? I said when you immigrate to the country, you absolutely do have to provide an address. Of course once you have residency you can come and go as you please. .


And in fact here you prove me right. How does Homeland security know where immigrants live once they get their green cards? They do NOT. All your data shows is the point of entry of the immigrant. Where they went to after that is not known. Immigrants move over time, many relocating to points far from the original point of entry.

So if someone says that loads of Ethiopians live in LA then maybe they do, even if the data don't show this. I do know that the Caribbean population of ATL is way bigger than the stats show. Most of them are re-migrants from NYC so don't appear on any immigrant stats.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 3:20 am

FlyHappy wrote:
... do they also question Delta's JFK to Lagos route?

No - on size alone, JFK is not IAH, and LOS is not ACC. :roll:

Cheers,

C.
 
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ua900
Moderator
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 3:45 am

planemanofnz wrote:
evanb wrote:
... if Dublin were such a good option they'd already be seeking 5th freedom routes from Dublin to Chicago, Newark, Washington and Toronto, but they're not.

AFAIK, they actually did seek those, but couldn't get them - LAX was granted because, at the time, no other carrier served LAX from DUB (unlike with the others). I'd be confident that, under the same premise, ET would get 5th freedom rights to IAH, as no airline currently flies between Ireland and Texas.


Looking back, everyone was surprised that ET would try (and stick with) DUB-LAX. And look at it now, EI discovered the left coast and any risk that ET took flying there is now turned into shared rewards for EI. UA sticks to DUB as well via EWR and even ORD. ET is almost like WW in keeping outfits like UA on their feet, no small feat being in the same alliance and being a full service carrier.

If ET started flights to IAH, UA might look into African routes again, that's just the sort of friend they are. Close to nil *A feed for ET at IAH as a result.

ETinCaribe wrote:
I like the "partner with everyone" approach that ET is taking. If the ACC-IAH route materializes, ET will fly from three different points in West Africa to the US, not too bad. And if oil prices tank, hedging not withstanding, ET will take that any day as their biggest cost center will also tank and they can shut the flights to IAH if the demand is no longer there.


Not much of a choice when your *A "buddies" at UA and LH Group do everything in their power to not sell ET legs on 016 / 220 ticket stock :roll:

guyanam wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Id All immigrants have to register with a full address and that information is public
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statist ... rbook/2016


Really? I am an immigrant and Homeland Security never told me to register with them. Where do people get these ideas from? As disappointed as Trump supporters are there is actually limited monitoring of immigrants living in the USA, and this even includes those illegally present.

The Federal government doesn't know anything more about immigrants than they know about others living in the USA. Once you get your permanent residence they care little about you unless you break the law.


Really? They told me when they handed me my green card under Hussein Obama. And it seems that it's still a requirement: Most non-U.S. citizens must report a change of address within 10 days of moving within the United States or its territories. https://www.uscis.gov/addresschange

ghdc10 wrote:
I look at it this way: Addis-Ababa and Accra/Lagos/Abuja traffic to Houston have fewer options with more inconvenient stops and layovers in Europe/Middle East than the simple direct flight in the case of Accra and Addis Ababa traffic. Don't forget ET owns ASKY based in Lome and within West Africa we have our own version of open skies so they could feed Abuja/Lagos traffic to Accra direct on "their own metal". Exxon Mobil has a growing presence in Ghana and an established presence in Nigeria. I would be surprised if they didn't open even more routes from West Africa so they can corner the travel market there as they dance on the graves of the Ghana Airways, Air Afrique, Nigeria Airways, Arik Air intercontinental ops etc. There aren't enough direct, let alone non-stop transatlantic options from Accra and Lagos. 2 week return to Houston from Accra in economy is going for at least $2300 on Air France with a stop at CDG. Don't forget that one cannot book online for Delta flights to Ghana but Ethiopian even takes mobile money and so they are more targeted to African consumers, and rightly so!

Final point: I am elated the governments of Ghana, Togo and Ivory Coast have chosen to give out fifth freedom rights to African carriers for intercontinental services. Protectionism in African aviation has created too many 2-plane airlines who ultimately succumb to debtors. We need to stop building village champions.


Exactly, among large African carriers ET is by far the most market driven and it's so nice to see a large, successful and modern African based carrier.
2020: AMS | ATL | BRU | DAL | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | GUA | IAH | LAX | LIM | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SAL | SCL | SFO | TPA | TXL
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 3:46 am

planemanofnz wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
... do they also question Delta's JFK to Lagos route?

No - on size alone, JFK is not IAH, and LOS is not ACC. :roll:

Cheers,

C.


I am completely aware of both of those differences.

But neither Accra nor Houston are exactly small cities - and from an area of over 1 billion people (just sub-Saharan portion), you really just think only a tiny few cities can possibly support a TATL flight? This really makes sense to you?
 
planemanofnz
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 4:00 am

FlyHappy wrote:
an area of over 1 billion people (just sub-Saharan portion) ...

Let's get real. ACC is hardly a gateway to the region - it has limited connections and infrastructure. For example, there are no flights from there to regional capital cities like BJL, BKO, CKY, COO, DSS, OXB, and YAO, among many, many others.

FlyHappy wrote:
... you really just think only a tiny few cities can possibly support a TATL flight?

In the case of West Africa, yes.

Cheers,

C.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 4:19 am

planemanofnz wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
an area of over 1 billion people (just sub-Saharan portion) ...

Let's get real. ACC is hardly a gateway to the region - it has limited connections and infrastructure. For example, there are no flights from there to regional capital cities like BJL, BKO, CKY, COO, DSS, OXB, and YAO, among many, many others.


Well, I don't think Accra is being asked to function as a 1st world style gateway in this case, and thus its regional connectivity isn't greatly the point.

planemanofnz wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
... you really just think only a tiny few cities can possibly support a TATL flight?

In the case of West Africa, yes.


Since this is a 5th, originating in ADD, it really does not have to support it on its own, does it?
Given that ET flies an A350 into ACC now, I'm giving ET the benefit of the doubt over us keyboard CEO's , that it has a decent sense of the business case for this route.
 
LH658
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 4:46 am

Would love to see IAH - ACC- ADD soon, be interesting variety to IAH. I think that would top off IAH international service for awhile other, than route to South of the border (Caribbean, South America, Latin America), and Canada like AC YVR to IAH.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 5:19 am

planemanofnz wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
an area of over 1 billion people (just sub-Saharan portion) ...

Let's get real. ACC is hardly a gateway to the region - it has limited connections and infrastructure. For example, there are no flights from there to regional capital cities like BJL, BKO, CKY, COO, DSS, OXB, and YAO, among many, many others.


Name a West African city that does have service to all of those airports?

Basically, the Anglophone West African countries trade with each other and the Francophone and Lusophone West African countries trade with each other but there is not a great amount overlap between the two and the air service links reflect that.

The two largest cities in West Africa, Lagos and Abidjan, had exactly zero flights between them before Air Cote D'Ivoire launched service fairly recently. West African airports live on their own O/D traffic - connections are not a big concern (LFW being the one exception) as many of them lack sterile transit areas and the ability to transfer bags in an efficient manner.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18279
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 6:12 am

planemanofnz wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
an area of over 1 billion people (just sub-Saharan portion) ...

Let's get real. ACC is hardly a gateway to the region - it has limited connections and infrastructure. For example, there are no flights from there to regional capital cities like BJL, BKO, CKY, COO, DSS, OXB, and YAO, among many, many others.

FlyHappy wrote:
... you really just think only a tiny few cities can possibly support a TATL flight?

In the case of West Africa, yes.

Cheers,

C.

People vastly over estimate the market size to/from/within Africa, and especially the fare. Even as a full on "hub" like LFW is still microscopic in terms of demand.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 6:19 am

guyanam wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
[
Where did I say that? I said when you immigrate to the country, you absolutely do have to provide an address. Of course once you have residency you can come and go as you please. .


And in fact here you prove me right. How does Homeland security know where immigrants live once they get their green cards? They do NOT. All your data shows is the point of entry of the immigrant. Where they went to after that is not known. Immigrants move over time, many relocating to points far from the original point of entry.

So if someone says that loads of Ethiopians live in LA then maybe they do, even if the data don't show this. I do know that the Caribbean population of ATL is way bigger than the stats show. Most of them are re-migrants from NYC so don't appear on any immigrant stats.


You need to educate yourself on the process and methodology before being so sure of yourself.

Homeland Security tracks immigrants until they obtain permanent residency. After that, it is an arm of the census that keeps track of where people go from there. They have a methodology that would make your head hurt.

All I ever hear are people from specific ethnic groups complain they are under counted. Then when you ask them to provide proof: NOTHING! They have nothing to back themselves up. They just feel like the numbers should be bigger which is pure BS.

Learn about it before being so sure of yourself.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
LH658
Posts: 1248
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 9:11 am

Well IAH has the European competitors plus TK, EK, and QR to ACC. I notice decent amount people will back track using TK, QR, or EK. Though ET addition will be nice to IAH. Offer extensive connection in Africa. Though would be nice if SAA can codeshare on the IAH to ACC sector, then pax can connect in ACC on wards to South Africa. Also what will attract this flight if UA will codeshare ET, or if ET can codeshare on UA flights. Though I bet Lufthansa would be upset, as they are trying to deepen there Africa market. On Star Alliance point of view, this would be nice one stop addition, vs flying IAH - IAD - BRU - ACC. If ET can work on something on connecting pax to other countries from ACC, then this would be nice flight. It will be attractive as, you only 1 long haul sector, then short sector within Africa. Versus flying to like CDG for example then fly medium haul flight to Nigeria etc.
 
evanb
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 9:52 am

LH658 wrote:
Well IAH has the European competitors plus TK, EK, and QR to ACC. I notice decent amount people will back track using TK, QR, or EK. Though ET addition will be nice to IAH. Offer extensive connection in Africa. Though would be nice if SAA can codeshare on the IAH to ACC sector, then pax can connect in ACC on wards to South Africa. Also what will attract this flight if UA will codeshare ET, or if ET can codeshare on UA flights. Though I bet Lufthansa would be upset, as they are trying to deepen there Africa market. On Star Alliance point of view, this would be nice one stop addition, vs flying IAH - IAD - BRU - ACC. If ET can work on something on connecting pax to other countries from ACC, then this would be nice flight. It will be attractive as, you only 1 long haul sector, then short sector within Africa. Versus flying to like CDG for example then fly medium haul flight to Nigeria etc.


Why would SAA codeshare on it? They would rather carry passengers on their own metal to JFK or IAD and connect them from there.
 
dochawk2
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:06 am

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 11:24 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
ACC? I’d understand if they were talking about LOS or another Nigerian airport but that one makes no sense. Almost all the demand to ACC comes from NYC and DC.


Houston has had a Ghanaian consulate for years and a healthy expat population. Yes, NYC and DC are the prime locations but Houston makes sense. Plus, ACC is getting their new international Terminal 3 opened any time now. I was just in ACC last month and it looked 95% complete.
God, give us wings to fly!
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 1:07 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
an area of over 1 billion people (just sub-Saharan portion) ...

Let's get real. ACC is hardly a gateway to the region - it has limited connections and infrastructure. For example, there are no flights from there to regional capital cities like BJL, BKO, CKY, COO, DSS, OXB, and YAO, among many, many others.

FlyHappy wrote:
... you really just think only a tiny few cities can possibly support a TATL flight?

In the case of West Africa, yes.

Cheers,

C.

People vastly over estimate the market size to/from/within Africa, and especially the fare. Even as a full on "hub" like LFW is still microscopic in terms of demand.


well, I'm not among those people, but the market is big enough for significant length flights by the big EU legacies, ME3, TK, DL (most of whom have higher costs). So I find it odd that people project such criticism that ET, a solid and well establish "local" player sees fit to expand services.

They know better than us, says I.
 
iadadd
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 2:22 pm

Funny how about 14 years ago when Ghana Airways was going tank, ET was willing to purchase it and help establish a fresh start for the airline. Ghana's govt refused to accept that deal, but now Ghana is allowing ET TATL flights from ACC and is in inviting ET to help start a new airline.
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 3:42 pm

slowrambler wrote:
behramjee wrote:
ET's core profits annually come from:

1. Intra Africa flying
2. Cargo operations
3. Maintenance unit

A vast majority of their long haul services make an "operating cash profit" but not "net profit".


Having difficulty finding public documents that justify this. In particular I would be very surprised if Africa-Africa flows dominated profit, as opposed to Africa-intercontinental transit. In the latter case it's purely a matter of accounting where the "profit" is, because (e.g.) if they did not operate ADD-CAN, they would have fewer passengers on ENU-ADD.


Try booking a random route within African to check prices. You will often see that prices in Y are a 1000 $ minimum return for 4-5 hours sectors. Ethiopian through its 2 hubs in Lome and Addis takes a large slice of this market which is very high yielding.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 4:15 pm

klm617 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
And people on here actually called me stupid for saying Ethiopian should come to IAH.



They aren't in Houston yet until it happens it's just another rumor.

Still more likely than DTW.
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evanb
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 5:47 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
Try booking a random route within African to check prices. You will often see that prices in Y are a 1000 $ minimum return for 4-5 hours sectors. Ethiopian through its 2 hubs in Lome and Addis takes a large slice of this market which is very high yielding.


High-yielding maybe, but low unit revenue. ET's RASK is about 30% lower than BA, for example, and even lower than TG, who are notorious for their low yields. ET's business model is built on having a staggeringly low cost base.
 
slowrambler
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 6:58 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
slowrambler wrote:
behramjee wrote:
ET's core profits annually come from:

1. Intra Africa flying
2. Cargo operations
3. Maintenance unit

A vast majority of their long haul services make an "operating cash profit" but not "net profit".


Having difficulty finding public documents that justify this. In particular I would be very surprised if Africa-Africa flows dominated profit, as opposed to Africa-intercontinental transit. In the latter case it's purely a matter of accounting where the "profit" is, because (e.g.) if they did not operate ADD-CAN, they would have fewer passengers on ENU-ADD.


Try booking a random route within African to check prices. You will often see that prices in Y are a 1000 $ minimum return for 4-5 hours sectors. Ethiopian through its 2 hubs in Lome and Addis takes a large slice of this market which is very high yielding.


Sure, it's high-yielding. What fraction of total ET traffic is this?
 
vinniewinnie
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 7:17 pm

evanb wrote:
vinniewinnie wrote:
Try booking a random route within African to check prices. You will often see that prices in Y are a 1000 $ minimum return for 4-5 hours sectors. Ethiopian through its 2 hubs in Lome and Addis takes a large slice of this market which is very high yielding.


High-yielding maybe, but low unit revenue. ET's RASK is about 30% lower than BA, for example, and even lower than TG, who are notorious for their low yields. ET's business model is built on having a staggeringly low cost base.


This is surely for their entire operations, and not for their African operations only.

As for the % African high yield traffic, I have no idea but it is sizeable.
 
jetero
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 7:31 pm

klm617 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
And people on here actually called me stupid for saying Ethiopian should come to IAH.



They aren't in Houston yet until it happens it's just another rumor.


Oh klm617.

Do you think Ghana just granted rights willy-nilly without be specifically asked?

No route has been announced yet, if that's what you're saying. But it ain't "just another rumor."
 
guyanam
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 8:12 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
You need to educate yourself on the process and methodology before being so sure of yourself.

Homeland Security tracks immigrants until they obtain permanent residency. After that, it is an arm of the census that keeps track of where people go from there. They have a methodology that would make your head hurt.

All I ever hear are people from specific ethnic groups complain they are under counted. Then when you ask them to provide proof: NOTHING! They have nothing to back themselves up. They just feel like the numbers should be bigger which is pure BS.

Learn about it before being so sure of yourself.


American Airlines several years ago tried to get information on the non Hispanic Caribbean population for their route planning and market promotion. The US census didn't help. So they were left with a bunch of guestimates. In fact there are several consultants who were trying to get the US census to have a box for "Caribbean" and another for "Sub Saharan African". This being under the "African American/Black" box. The US census declined that request.

Why don't you go find a US census form that has a box where people can check? "Ethiopian"? It does NOT exist. Therefore large numbers of Ethiopians are counted as "African American/Black". Ethiopians are not Vietnamese who have their own box to check under the "Asian" category. Ditto for Mexicans under the "Hispanic/Latino" box.

Does NOT apply to black immigrants. Only two boxes, either "African American/Black" or "Other" if we object to the first box, which some Ethiopians might BTW.
When it comes to black immigrant populations, and their descendants, there is an under count. How much it might be is pure conjecture.

As to Homeland tracking down permanent residents until they get their citizenship. They cannot even track down those who arrived on non immigrant visas and who decided not to return, so are in the USA illegally. I submit to you that they are more concerned about those people than they are about lawful permanent residents. They know where people live when they get their green card. For those who have to re-register for their green cards, and not all have to, they know at that time. They aren't running down and knocking on doors and you better believe that permanent residents aren't telling them every time they move.
Last edited by guyanam on Tue May 08, 2018 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
evanb
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 8:25 pm

jetero wrote:
Do you think Ghana just granted rights willy-nilly without be specifically asked?

No route has been announced yet, if that's what you're saying. But it ain't "just another rumor."


That said, Ghana has been generous to carriers in regards to 5th freedom routes. Some prominent 6th freedoms include SAA to IAD and ABJ, EK to ABJ, KQ to FNA and ROB, WB to ABV.
 
jetero
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 8:52 pm

evanb wrote:
jetero wrote:
Do you think Ghana just granted rights willy-nilly without be specifically asked?

No route has been announced yet, if that's what you're saying. But it ain't "just another rumor."


That said, Ghana has been generous to carriers in regards to 5th freedom routes. Some prominent 6th freedoms include SAA to IAD and ABJ, EK to ABJ, KQ to FNA and ROB, WB to ABV.


Sure, but I'm also sure they didn't do it without being asked! (After all, how would they get something out of it otherwise?!)
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Tue May 08, 2018 9:13 pm

guyanam wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
You need to educate yourself on the process and methodology before being so sure of yourself.

Homeland Security tracks immigrants until they obtain permanent residency. After that, it is an arm of the census that keeps track of where people go from there. They have a methodology that would make your head hurt.

All I ever hear are people from specific ethnic groups complain they are under counted. Then when you ask them to provide proof: NOTHING! They have nothing to back themselves up. They just feel like the numbers should be bigger which is pure BS.

Learn about it before being so sure of yourself.


American Airlines several years ago tried to get information on the non Hispanic Caribbean population for their route planning and market promotion. The US census didn't help. So they were left with a bunch of guestimates. In fact there are several consultants who were trying to get the US census to have a box for "Caribbean" and another for "Sub Saharan African". This being under the "African American/Black" box. The US census declined that request.

Why don't you go find a US census form that has a box where people can check? "Ethiopian"? It does NOT exist. Therefore large numbers of Ethiopians are counted as "African American/Black". Ethiopians are not Vietnamese who have their own box to check under the "Asian" category. Ditto for Mexicans under the "Hispanic/Latino" box.

Does NOT apply to black immigrants. Only two boxes, either "African American/Black" or "Other" if we object to the first box, which some Ethiopians might BTW.
When it comes to black immigrant populations, and their descendants, there is an under count. How much it might be is pure conjecture.

As to Homeland tracking down permanent residents until they get their citizenship. They cannot even track down those who arrived on non immigrant visas and who decided not to return, so are in the USA illegally. I submit to you that they are more concerned about those people than they are about lawful permanent residents. They know where people live when they get their green card. For those who have to re-register for their green cards, and not all have to, they know at that time. They aren't running down and knocking on doors and you better believe that permanent residents aren't telling them every time they move.


Then someone at American Airlines should be fired for not knowing how to use a computer. Those numbers are very widely available and while they may not be exact down to the single person, you can certainly gain scope from them. Places like South Florida, NYC, and to a lesser degree Boston and Orlando dominate pretty well there.

The branch that follows the details is the American Community Survey. The ACS is the group that collects data on all ethnic groups in the years between the census. The document below, if you care to read it, explains the methodology which ranges across many metrics. I agree there is a margin of error, however the ACS factors that in. Thats why when you, for example, a "Hispanic by Specific Origin" report for the Houston metro area, it shows 1,894,797 Mexicans (domestic and foreign born) living in the Houston area. Then it gives a margin of error of 26,311 meaning it could be up to that much greater or fewer than the number they predict. If you look at the Hondurans living in the Houston Metro Area, it shows 80,290. The margin of error is 8,716. Its smaller because the Honduran community is much smaller. Another factor has to do with illegal immigration. Per capita, Hondurans are much more likely to be undocumented than Mexicans in Houston. The margin of error can skew higher for that reason.

https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/acsd ... gy2014.pdf
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Wed May 09, 2018 10:59 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
[

Then someone at American Airlines should be fired for not knowing how to use a computer. Those numbers are very widely available and while they may not be exact down to the single person, you can certainly gain scope from them. Places like South Florida, NYC, and to a lesser degree Boston and Orlando dominate pretty well there.

The branch that follows the details is the American Community Survey. The ACS is the group that collects data on all ethnic groups in the years between the census. The document below, if you care to read it, explains the methodology which ranges across many metrics. I agree there is a margin of error, however the ACS factors that in. Thats why when you, for example, a "Hispanic by Specific Origin" report for the Houston metro area, it shows 1,894,797 Mexicans (domestic and foreign born) living in the Houston area. Then it gives a margin of error of 26,311 meaning it could be up to that much greater or fewer than the number they predict. If you look at the Hondurans living in the Houston Metro Area, it shows 80,290. The margin of error is 8,716. Its smaller because the Honduran community is much smaller. Another factor has to do with illegal immigration. Per capita, Hondurans are much more likely to be undocumented than Mexicans in Houston. The margin of error can skew higher for that reason.

https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/acsd ... gy2014.pdf


You cite Mexicans as an example even after being told that counting black immigrants is difficult as there is no US census category to capture data. Homeland security isn't tracking naturalized citizens, nor do they do an effective job of tracking down non-naturalized immigrants (legal and illegal) so that isn't a source either. So the US census becomes the chassis upon which all other data is piled (including the ACS) and if it doesn't separately count black immigrants then there is a clear problem.

The ACS measures ANCESTRY. It doesn't measure place of birth. It is also a sample survey. It isn't designed as a replacement for the census which is why often one sees data from the year before the census has to be adjusted once the census is taken.

So someone who claims to be "English" and who arrived on the May Flower is seen as the same as some one who just got off the BA flight from LHR. Clearly BA isn't interested in the former if they are attempting to study the VFR market. That person who is many generations removed from the UK will travel there only for nostalgia as clearly they are no more likely to know people in the UK than any other random group of Americans. So isn't a VFR traveler.. The British immigrant will need to travel to see family and maybe to tend to personal issues. So this is the person who BA is more interested in analyzing as part of an assessment of the VFR market,.


In fact the ACS is best used not to measure how many of a group live where. Its best able to assess the socio economic data of that black immigrant group because it is really a sampling of a population. It is designed to be a sampling and NOT as a replacement to the US census.

AA plans to start a MIA GEO route. Among the issues will be assessing where Guyanese live, aside from those in the northeast. I mean GUYANESE, NOT these claiming Guyanese ancestry. They will find guesstimates. Not specific data. I bet that ATL, which consists mainly of those relocating from the NY area, will be greatly under estimated. Clearly lacking direct service ATL will be an important feeder market, but to what degree?
 
filipair
Posts: 164
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Wed May 09, 2018 11:48 pm

I bet Facebook and Google know how many Guyanese with ties to Guyana there are in the US.
 
berari
Posts: 920
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Thu May 10, 2018 3:47 am

FA9295 wrote:
:checkmark: I agree. Can't see how ACC-IAH would make any sense. They fly to LAX through DUB and will fly to ORD through DUB as well. Didn't United end a route from IAH to Africa not too long ago? Can't imagine that the LF and/or yields were sustainable there and I'm not really sure that the market has improved very much since then...


You would have to understand what market they are trying to reach via ACC. The West African market, specifically Nigerian market is what they would target. ET's business is about connecting Africans to the rest of the world. The Ethiopian travellers make up a small portion of ET's customer base, as such, DUB would not work. It would also be a detour for the customer base they're targeting.

ETinCaribe wrote:
I can see ET doing IAH-ACC-LOS (and other points within Nigeria) for instance to capture the Nigerian VFR traffic that may now go through ATL/JFK or Europe. Since it cannot get 5th freedom in Nigeria, ET is using launchpads within West Africa to get into Nigeria via a 1-stop. ET will feed ASKY, Air Cote d'Ivoire, a Ghanaian airline, and take care of the transatlantic sector. The ADD and other East Africa points will be nice add-ons and provide some of the overall load.


I do see fragmentation in ET's West African hub with this approach. But then again I sense that this is a result of protectionism that exists from West African countries that won't allow ASKY to operate as freely (or possibly capacity issues at LFW.) I also see these countries now opening up, having held on to such high potential rights for either incapable carriers or future self use. With ET drumming up pan-Africanism, I imagine that these countries (Cote d'Ivoire, Ghana) are now looking to not miss out on the next best thing. Or maybe it is the Single African Air Transport Market agreement that many African countries have signed up for that leaves them no choice but to open up the kimono.

It is worth noting that ET is starting up ABJ-EWR next month with Air Cote d'Ivoire feeding it. The latter is 11% owned by AF/KL, and would be eating into the parent's market share on ABJ-NYC.

flyingclrs727 wrote:
There's lots of competition to IAH through European hubs. Perhaps ACC offers better chances of picking up more traffic between IAH and Africa.


That would be the idea.

planemanofnz wrote:
evanb wrote:
That's not a hub.

Ghana is endemic for yellow fever, as well as malaria, and is suffering from increased crime.
C.


Pills and precautions look after the firs two. How does crime compared to, say, the state of California's. Is that stopping airlines from flying into LAX?

iadadd wrote:
Funny how about 14 years ago when Ghana Airways was going tank, ET was willing to purchase it and help establish a fresh start for the airline. Ghana's govt refused to accept that deal, but now Ghana is allowing ET TATL flights from ACC and is in inviting ET to help start a new airline.


A person or two on this forum will tell you more about what they know re: Ghana's tries at airlines. ET is either in the best position to help, or is most eager. SA has had rights between ACC and IAD for years, would have expected it to grow out of ACC given that it has a foot in there. But it doesn't have the feed it may require.

evanb wrote:
That said, Ghana has been generous to carriers in regards to 5th freedom routes. Some prominent 6th freedoms include SAA to IAD and ABJ, EK to ABJ, KQ to FNA and ROB, WB to ABV.


Everybody's been getting intra-Africa rights out of ACC. Even ME and MS. It's the intercontinental ones that have been coveted and held close.

khowaga wrote:
There is their *A partner in IAH, if they can work out a codeshare arrangement, but ET and UA don’t appear to be cozy bedfellows...


They codeshare on daily IAD-ADD-ADD. LAX may be a thorny issue for UA given that ET eats into its DUB market. ORD is coming up and I expect UA to place its code on there: ET's IAD flight already commands traffic from the midwest and ORD will tap right into that with much better connectivity. I suspect that EWR is similar to LAX, in that ET competes with UA on already established West Africa bound traffic/partnerships (ie A++ JV), hence the lack of code share on there.

iadadd wrote:
ET is notorious for being rather market driven; if they don't like the results of an operation they will easily drop or restructure the flight. The rest of the network is definitely money making. ET has strong brand recognition in Africa, and is additionally known for operating the most modern aircraft with good services, whereas most carriers send their worst cabins to Africa.


This has been evident in many cases: Bangui, Durban come to mind. ET has also been aggressive as of late in opening new routes and rapidly increasing frequency.

usflyer msp wrote:
I hope this means they are adding second frequency to ADD-ACC not displacing local Accra passengers off of the already usually full ADD-ACC sector...


This is what I also hope for. Maybe an evening flight out of ADD? I have observed the rate of capacity growth for ACC vis a vis LOS and others. We have seen ACC go from just a few times a week with 757s and 738s to a now consistent daily A350 service - ET would swap slower days to the 788 when it could not warrant an A350, but has not.

evanb wrote:
When you compare the current timings to the Addis Ababa-Lome-Newark flight, one could expect them to just continue to Houston:

The current ADD-ACC-ADD timing is as follows:
ADD ACC 8:40 am 11:20 am
ACC ADD 12:20pm 9:00pm

Consider ADD-LFW-EWR-LFW-ADD
ADD LFW 8:30am 11:00am
LFW EWR 12:00pm 7:00pm
EWR LFW 9:15am 11:35am
LFW ACC 12:35pm 9:10pm


I personally don't like the current timings for ADD-LFW/EWR and the upcoming ADD-ABJ/EWR. While they work for the respective hubs, the turnaround time at EWR is too tight. The EWR-LFW flight is almost always delayed, further delaying LFW-ADD. This might be their worst on time performance flight in their entire system, and will have a match out of ABJ soon too. The inbound into ADD already is scheduled to arrive quite late within the bank with little room for delays.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Thu May 10, 2018 4:26 am

berari wrote:
ET's business is about connecting Africans to the rest of the world. The Ethiopian travellers make up a small portion of ET's customer base, as such, DUB would not work.

Right, so why then fly to LAX through DUB, instead of, say, ACC?

berari wrote:
Everybody's been getting intra-Africa rights out of ACC. Even ME and MS. It's the intercontinental ones that have been coveted and held close.

Eh, there are still no intra-Africa flights from ACC to regional capital cities like BJL, BKO, CKY, COO, DSS, OXB, and YAO, among many, many others.

Cheers,

C.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18279
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Thu May 10, 2018 4:51 am

berari wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
There's lots of competition to IAH through European hubs. Perhaps ACC offers better chances of picking up more traffic between IAH and Africa.


That would be the idea.

A little perspective here: the local market is about 5-10 passengers per day each way. LFWEWR is not much bigger and that is *after* ET stimulated it with a nonstop.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
amadorE175
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:25 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Thu May 10, 2018 8:13 am

planemanofnz wrote:
berari wrote:
ET's business is about connecting Africans to the rest of the world. The Ethiopian travellers make up a small portion of ET's customer base, as such, DUB would not work.

Right, so why then fly to LAX through DUB, instead of, say, ACC?


The 2000+ extra nautical miles compared to DUB are a pretty strong deterrent from serving LAX from ACC.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Thu May 10, 2018 9:10 am

amadorE175 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
berari wrote:
ET's business is about connecting Africans to the rest of the world. The Ethiopian travellers make up a small portion of ET's customer base, as such, DUB would not work.

Right, so why then fly to LAX through DUB, instead of, say, ACC?


The 2000+ extra nautical miles compared to DUB are a pretty strong deterrent from serving LAX from ACC.

But, it's "about connecting Africans to the rest of the world," not DUB - who cares if an ACC stop makes for a longer routing than through DUB! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Cheers,

C.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6214
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Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Thu May 10, 2018 1:09 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
amadorE175 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:

Right, so why then fly to LAX through DUB, instead of, say, ACC?


The 2000+ extra nautical miles compared to DUB are a pretty strong deterrent from serving LAX from ACC.

But, it's "about connecting Africans to the rest of the world," not DUB - who cares if an ACC stop makes for a longer routing than through DUB! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Cheers,

C.


LAX and IAH aren’t the same. LA has few business ties with West Africa. IAH has massive business ties with West Africa complements of oil.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
evanb
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Thu May 10, 2018 3:36 pm

berari wrote:
A person or two on this forum will tell you more about what they know re: Ghana's tries at airlines. ET is either in the best position to help, or is most eager. SA has had rights between ACC and IAD for years, would have expected it to grow out of ACC given that it has a foot in there. But it doesn't have the feed it may require.

Everybody's been getting intra-Africa rights out of ACC. Even ME and MS. It's the intercontinental ones that have been coveted and held close.


SA has worked on getting feed in Accra, but have not been that successful. They have some lose partnership with Africa World Airlines which gives them some traffic from Lagos, but it's not substantial. Most of the traffic is Accra originating, but they have solid feed on the Washington side. From my understanding, SA are very happy with Accra all-round, not just the Accra-Washington sectors, but also, the Accra-Abidjan sectors and Joburg-Acrra sectors, the latter of which they're flying 8x weekly (4x continuing to IAD, 3x to ABJ and 1x terminating). I think they'd like to add more Accra-Washington but likely cannot. There has also been talk of splitting off Abidjan, or adding an Abidjan-US sector, but their current financial problems are not allowing them to open new routes.

In terms of yield, the economy yields between Washington and Accra are excellent, but the business class yields are poor, so they tend to sell a higher proportion of their business class capacity between Joburg and Washington.
 
berari
Posts: 920
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Ethiopian secures Accra-Texas flights

Thu May 10, 2018 5:56 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
amadorE175 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:

Right, so why then fly to LAX through DUB, instead of, say, ACC?


The 2000+ extra nautical miles compared to DUB are a pretty strong deterrent from serving LAX from ACC.

But, it's "about connecting Africans to the rest of the world," not DUB - who cares if an ACC stop makes for a longer routing than through DUB! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Cheers,

C.


Roll your eyes more. ET's LAX service is supported by 5th freedom from DUB. ET would not operate to LAX without this.

planemanofnz wrote:
berari wrote:
ET's business is about connecting Africans to the rest of the world. The Ethiopian travellers make up a small portion of ET's customer base, as such, DUB would not work.

Right, so why then fly to LAX through DUB, instead of, say, ACC?

berari wrote:
Everybody's been getting intra-Africa rights out of ACC. Even ME and MS. It's the intercontinental ones that have been coveted and held close.

Eh, there are still no intra-Africa flights from ACC to regional capital cities like BJL, BKO, CKY, COO, DSS, OXB, and YAO, among many, many others.

Cheers,

C.


BJL served by Asky.

As for the rest, maybe there's not enough traffic to warrant service. The point made was that 5th freedoms are openly handed to non-Ghanaian airlines out of ACC.

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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos