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Revelation
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A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 6:23 pm

http://www.businessinsider.com/airbus-h ... 1-while-25 has a nice article covering the Airbus vs Boeing rivalry, going back to the days of the Trident and the Caravelle, up to the current time. Lots of old-timey photos with narrative weaved in between. Nice job, IMHO.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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N14AZ
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 7:25 pm

Revelation wrote:
http://www.businessinsider.com/airbus-history-boeing-rivalry-2018-4#in-the-early-1990s-airbus-launched-two-new-widebody-airliners-with-mixed-results-the-four-engine-a340-first-flew-in-1991-while-25 has a nice article covering the Airbus vs Boeing rivalry, going back to the days of the Trident and the Caravelle, up to the current time. Lots of old-timey photos with narrative weaved in between. Nice job, IMHO.

I had to laugh when I scrolled down and saw the picture of the young John Leahy... :‘)))

PS.: but I am afraid that I have to report this thread to the moderators, it’s A vs. B ! ;-)
 
laxmia
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 7:36 pm

No background on the 737... aka the most widely used commercial plane? The A320 is a great plane - but excluding the 737’s role in aviation history is disappointing.
 
Bricktop
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 7:39 pm

Some excellent pictures in there. Thanks for the link!
 
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keesje
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 7:53 pm

Nice time line. The only strange thing I find the A340 and A330 presented as two different aircraft of similar size.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Strato2
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 8:11 pm

Another BS article with Abulafia comments. Nice pics though.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 9:17 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Revelation wrote:
http://www.businessinsider.com/airbus-history-boeing-rivalry-2018-4#in-the-early-1990s-airbus-launched-two-new-widebody-airliners-with-mixed-results-the-four-engine-a340-first-flew-in-1991-while-25 has a nice article covering the Airbus vs Boeing rivalry, going back to the days of the Trident and the Caravelle, up to the current time. Lots of old-timey photos with narrative weaved in between. Nice job, IMHO.

I had to laugh when I scrolled down and saw the picture of the young John Leahy... :‘)))

PS.: but I am afraid that I have to report this thread to the moderators, it’s A vs. B ! ;-)

There's nothing wrong with the thread :) It's fair to discuss the rivalry and history, so long as it doesn't turn into a flame war!
 
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Revelation
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 9:26 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Revelation wrote:
http://www.businessinsider.com/airbus-history-boeing-rivalry-2018-4#in-the-early-1990s-airbus-launched-two-new-widebody-airliners-with-mixed-results-the-four-engine-a340-first-flew-in-1991-while-25 has a nice article covering the Airbus vs Boeing rivalry, going back to the days of the Trident and the Caravelle, up to the current time. Lots of old-timey photos with narrative weaved in between. Nice job, IMHO.

I had to laugh when I scrolled down and saw the picture of the young John Leahy... :‘)))

PS.: but I am afraid that I have to report this thread to the moderators, it’s A vs. B ! ;-)

There's nothing wrong with the thread :) It's fair to discuss the rivalry and history, so long as it doesn't turn into a flame war!

Yes, it came across to me (overall) as a celebration of the competition, and the pictures were quite enjoyable.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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Revelation
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Sun May 06, 2018 9:28 pm

laxmia wrote:
No background on the 737... aka the most widely used commercial plane? The A320 is a great plane - but excluding the 737’s role in aviation history is disappointing.

The article was titled "How Airbus became Boeing's greatest rival" and that's how the narrative reads rather than a true history of both. Perhaps I should have used that title, but the one I chose seemed more succinct to me.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
IPFreely
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Mon May 07, 2018 2:38 am

laxmia wrote:
No background on the 737... aka the most widely used commercial plane? The A320 is a great plane - but excluding the 737’s role in aviation history is disappointing.


Not only did they leave out the most widely used plane in history in the 737, they also did not mention the 757, 777, or 787. Especially strange that they included the 340 and left out the 777, aka the 340 killer. Which Airbus planes were omitted?
 
1989worstyear
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Mon May 07, 2018 5:26 am

I guess the A310, 757, and 767 didn't have digital cockpits after all :banghead:
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
Leslieville
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Mon May 07, 2018 5:47 am

IPFreely wrote:
laxmia wrote:
No background on the 737... aka the most widely used commercial plane? The A320 is a great plane - but excluding the 737’s role in aviation history is disappointing.


Not only did they leave out the most widely used plane in history in the 737, they also did not mention the 757, 777, or 787. Especially strange that they included the 340 and left out the 777, aka the 340 killer. Which Airbus planes were omitted?


More than 44,000 Cessna 172 aircraft have been produced, followed by 36,000 Ilyushin Il-2, making these the top of the list of "most used plane in history". One has to go pretty far down the list to hit the 737.
 
grbauc
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Mon May 07, 2018 6:01 am

IPFreely wrote:
laxmia wrote:
No background on the 737... aka the most widely used commercial plane? The A320 is a great plane - but excluding the 737’s role in aviation history is disappointing.


Not only did they leave out the most widely used plane in history in the 737, they also did not mention the 757, 777, or 787. Especially strange that they included the 340 and left out the 777, aka the 340 killer. Which Airbus planes were omitted?



yea a brief look at the history of how Airbus came to be not Boeing. Thanks Rev Nice link.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Mon May 07, 2018 7:28 pm

From the article: "Together, the two nations teamed up to build the Concorde. To this date, the Concorde remains the world's first and only commercially viable supersonic airliner."

Image

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/24/nyre ... ology.html

Why can't Western writers write about A v. B without taking a potshot at Russia?

Tu-144 flew first. Exceeded Mach 2 first. Was bigger.

*Yes, totally stole tech.
**Yes, it crashed
***Crash caused by overzealous spy plane tracking it
 
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TheRedBaron
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Mon May 07, 2018 8:15 pm

Thanks for the link ! I have always loved the Frank Borman story with eastern taking a dozen A300... it was a time when people were a lot more wreckless and adventurous than today...much like Juan Trippe bet on the 747...

Best Regards TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Mon May 07, 2018 8:44 pm

Is the 3rd A300 pic a Rio overflying?
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 12:55 am

WorldFlier wrote:
From the article: "Together, the two nations teamed up to build the Concorde. To this date, the Concorde remains the world's first and only commercially viable supersonic airliner."

Image

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/24/nyre ... ology.html

Why can't Western writers write about A v. B without taking a potshot at Russia?

Tu-144 flew first. Exceeded Mach 2 first. Was bigger.

*Yes, totally stole tech.
**Yes, it crashed
***Crash caused by overzealous spy plane tracking it


You left out that the TU-144 had major reliability issues in it's very short service history, crashed on a test flight on 1978 in addition to the very public Paris Air Show crash, had less range, was VERY difficult to fly (narrow AOA limits, high stall speeds, roll stability issues) and had a cabin with extremely high noise levels. I wouldn't call the 144 "commercially viable".
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 12:59 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
Thanks for the link ! I have always loved the Frank Borman story with eastern taking a dozen A300... it was a time when people were a lot more wreckless and adventurous than today...much like Juan Trippe bet on the 747...

Best Regards TRB


In the end, the A300 order is probably what got Borman ousted from Eastern more than anything... he pissed off alot of the executive board with that order even with the freebies... even though it suited the EA route network very well, better than the L1011 and at the lower cost per ASM.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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deltadawg
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 3:28 am

Revelation wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I had to laugh when I scrolled down and saw the picture of the young John Leahy... :‘)))

PS.: but I am afraid that I have to report this thread to the moderators, it’s A vs. B ! ;-)

There's nothing wrong with the thread :) It's fair to discuss the rivalry and history, so long as it doesn't turn into a flame war!

Yes, it came across to me (overall) as a celebration of the competition, and the pictures were quite enjoyable.


I would agree that it was a picture of the rivalry but with flagrant omissions of Boeing products that are generally the greatest competition to Airbus. In essence it was a highly fair article with a slant towards Airbus it seems. Nonetheless, great photos and really liked it. Thanks for posting.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 4:00 am

WorldFlier wrote:
From the article: "Together, the two nations teamed up to build the Concorde. To this date, the Concorde remains the world's first and only commercially viable supersonic airliner."

Image

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/24/nyre ... ology.html

Why can't Western writers write about A v. B without taking a potshot at Russia?

Tu-144 flew first. Exceeded Mach 2 first. Was bigger.

*Yes, totally stole tech.
**Yes, it crashed
***Crash caused by overzealous spy plane tracking it


Key words there: 'commercially viable'. Was the Tu-144 commercially viable?
 
Max Q
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 4:11 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
Thanks for the link ! I have always loved the Frank Borman story with eastern taking a dozen A300... it was a time when people were a lot more wreckless and adventurous than today...much like Juan Trippe bet on the 747...

Best Regards TRB



‘Wreckless’ is always a good thing in aviation
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
Socrates17
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 4:11 am

Great link. Thanks! Although I was never lucky enough to fly either, I fell in love with the Caravelle and the Trident from watching John Drake (Danger Man/Secret Agent) flying BEA Tridents and MEA Caravelles. There might have even been a BOAC Comet in there somewhere, maybe to the Caribbean. I'll have to dig out the DVDs.
You Can't Take the Sky from Me
 
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N14AZ
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 5:53 am

WorldFlier wrote:
***Crash caused by overzealous spy plane tracking it

??? Never heard about this aspect of the crash. Do you have any link to read more about such an aspect?

Hopefully it didn’t involve the ...
Socrates17 wrote:
DVD.

;-)
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 6:52 am

northstardc4m wrote:
TheRedBaron wrote:
Thanks for the link ! I have always loved the Frank Borman story with eastern taking a dozen A300... it was a time when people were a lot more wreckless and adventurous than today...much like Juan Trippe bet on the 747...

Best Regards TRB


In the end, the A300 order is probably what got Borman ousted from Eastern more than anything... he pissed off alot of the executive board with that order even with the freebies... even though it suited the EA route network very well, better than the L1011 and at the lower cost per ASM.


Wasn't Frank Lorenzo's purchase of Eastern due to Charlie Bryan's posturing led to Borman's departure?

N14AZ wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
***Crash caused by overzealous spy plane tracking it

??? Never heard about this aspect of the crash. Do you have any link to read more about such an aspect?

Hopefully it didn’t involve the ...
Socrates17 wrote:
DVD.

;-)


The theory was that there was a Mirage fighter flying close to the Tu-144 trying to photograph the canard because it was advanced tech.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4572267/t ... rde-skies/
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
WIederling
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 7:15 am

MrHMSH wrote:
Key words there: 'commercially viable'. Was the Tu-144 commercially viable?


"commercially viable" is a rather moot point in context of the soviet decision process.
( would super sonic transport have made sense in scope of a socialist/communist setup
and an extremely vast country? )
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Channex757
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 8:16 am

Nice set of pics. In the end, it doesn't do any damage to anyone so it's an entertaining read if a little short on detail and long on the usual suspects (A380 and Abouilfa calling it a 'mistake' etc).

I would have liked a little more history on how Airbus came together and the real story, the A320 - 737 dogfight that has essentially defined aviation in recent decades.
 
LewisNEO
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 9:19 am

IPFreely wrote:
laxmia wrote:
No background on the 737... aka the most widely used commercial plane? The A320 is a great plane - but excluding the 737’s role in aviation history is disappointing.


Not only did they leave out the most widely used plane in history in the 737, they also did not mention the 757, 777, or 787. Especially strange that they included the 340 and left out the 777, aka the 340 killer. Which Airbus planes were omitted?


I have a bunny band aid to put on the hurting spot. :bouncy:

I found it an enjoyable and informative article. :white:
Maybe someone could write an article about how Boeing became the rival of Airbus with loads of 737s and 777s? Everyone on this platform is interested in aerobusiness and planes, so let's share this together. :-)
You are the wind beneath my wings.

Fokker 27, Bombardier Dash 8, Embraer 175 & 195, 727-200, 737-200 & -300 & -400 & -800, 747-400, 767-300, 767-400, DC 10-30, A320-200, A330-200, A330-300, A380.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 3:20 pm

N14AZ wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
***Crash caused by overzealous spy plane tracking it

??? Never heard about this aspect of the crash. Do you have any link to read more about such an aspect?

Hopefully it didn’t involve the ...
Socrates17 wrote:
DVD.

;-)



https://gizmodo.com/5893817/the-concord ... p-crashing
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 307
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 3:22 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
From the article: "Together, the two nations teamed up to build the Concorde. To this date, the Concorde remains the world's first and only commercially viable supersonic airliner."

Image

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/24/nyre ... ology.html

Why can't Western writers write about A v. B without taking a potshot at Russia?

Tu-144 flew first. Exceeded Mach 2 first. Was bigger.

*Yes, totally stole tech.
**Yes, it crashed
***Crash caused by overzealous spy plane tracking it


Key words there: 'commercially viable'. Was the Tu-144 commercially viable?


Nothing in the Soviet Union was commercially viable.

That was the point of you know "Socialism"
 
Guillaume787
Posts: 28
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Re: A vs. B, in pictures

Tue May 08, 2018 3:51 pm

laxmia wrote:
No background on the 737... aka the most widely used commercial plane? The A320 is a great plane - but excluding the 737’s role in aviation history is disappointing.


Fully agree. I would also add that excluding the 727 is also a disappointment considering the A320 was originally designed by Airbus to effectively compete with 727s/737s.

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