DL 1854 from DTW to DEN (MD-90) had smoke in cabin after landing. Evacuation occurred on taxiway. I remembered in the past evac videos (EK TVM - DXB) folks were complaining of passenger evacuating with baggage. We see the same here.

https://twitter.com/Marshall9News/statu ... 6659378176
https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trend ... /746460274

Another evacuation caught on tape that I find completely infuriating.

- Passengers waisting precious time by tossing their baggage down the escape slide before they themselves slide down.
- Hoards of passengers exiting through the over-wing exits, only to stand on the wing cluelessly and pointlessly instead of sliding off the back of the wing and getting away from the aircraft. (If you are evacuating because you think the plane may be on fire, then why are you standing over the fuel tanks after you exit the plane?)
- In one video I even saw a man try to climb down the leading edge of the wing even though the safety video says to slide off the back of the wing, even though the flight attendant evacuation commands say to slide off the back of the wing, and even though there are PAINTED ARROWS on the wing indicating which direction to go.

I have no doubt that most if not all of these passengers paid little to no attention to the safety demonstration either because they think they know everything or they just don't care. And then when the news cameras are rolling they talk about the "total chaos" and "lack of coordination" as if it is the airline's fault when in reality it is their own fault for not paying attention or following clear instructions.

If passengers care so little about their own safety, I don't know what else the airlines can do on their own. The government seriously needs to find a way to implement fines for those who disregard their own safety and worse the safety of their fellow travelers. Specifically those who take their luggage with them during an evacuation.

vanguard737 wrote:

Another evacuation caught on tape that I find completely infuriating..........If passengers care so little about their own safety, I don't know what else the airlines can do on their own. The government seriously needs to find a way to implement fines for those who disregard their own safety and worse the safety of their fellow travelers. Specifically those who take their luggage with them during an evacuation.

Yep, but I'm sure the lawsuits against Delta, DEN, and Boeing are soon to come.

I love in the video when someone throws their luggage down first and the gentleman at the bottom chucks it 15 feet away in apparent anger

I wish a flight attendant would yell from the back “HEY!! Drop your bags and get out! If this thing goes up in flames, I don’t want to die from burns because you couldn’t live without your Burkenstocks!!”

Was this a passenger-initiated evacuation? Where are the F/A’s directing traffic?

SLOWEST. EVAC. EVAH.

Until one passenger manages to sue another who injured him/her by throwing their luggage down first and gets mega bucks and publicity, I fear this attitude of save me and my luggage won't change. Hit them in the pocket, hard.

tys777 wrote:

I love in the video when someone throws their luggage down first and the gentleman at the bottom chucks it 15 feet away in apparent anger

That really was a gratifying moment!

It’s America. Everybody calm down. It's totally natural and nothing to see here folks...

Pics from inside...
https://twitter.com/NWOtweeter/status/9 ... 5261460480

"The flight from hell"

These people have a pretty heavenish view of hell

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I wish a flight attendant would yell from the back “HEY!! Drop your bags and get out! If this thing goes up in flames, I don’t want to die from burns because you couldn’t live without your Burkenstocks!!”

It's impossible to tell if it's a FA or not, but someone was clearly shouting "LEAVE YOUR BAGS"

vanguard737 wrote:

Another evacuation caught on tape that I find completely infuriating.

Unless you are highly trained in a specific scenario... people react with "gut instincts" instead of thinking about what they are doing.

Emergency evacuation: Grab their most valuable item - and flee to what appears to be the nearest safe point is the common reaction (standing on the wings is safer than being in the cabin). You see the same from burning buildings, etc - unless their lives are in extremely imminent danger - in which case they just flee without any belongings.

Getting upset about it is not going to change what happens. The airlines will never subject passengers to sufficient realistic training to overcome this in any meaningful way (and the FAA and other regulators know that).

My opinion is that people are not realistic if they think they are going to see rational thinking deliberate moving general public who know all the "right moves" in an emergency. That's a fantasy!

Have a great day,

This is a non-event.

Women even going down slide still wearing heels too.

Pax should be charged for failing to comply!

This may take my #1 spot for most painful evacuation.

vanguard737 wrote:

The government seriously needs to find a way to implement fines for those who disregard their own safety and worse the safety of their fellow travelers. Specifically those who take their luggage with them during an evacuation.

People do things every day that endanger others. I can think of several traffic regs that I saw violated today (speeding, illegal lane changes....) all of which have fines associated with them. And these were while people were probably not under stress and prone to making bad decisions. Regardless of the "I woulda...." "they shoulda" posts that always appear in these situations, no one can truthfully say what they would do unless they have been involved in exactly the same situation. Visualizing the situation in front of a computer screen doesn't count.

A new 'regulation/fine' is not going to solve this behavior.

neomax wrote:

This is a non-event.

There's always one. And today that's you

I think every single person took their bags out of the overhead and went down the slides, and did so as slowly as possible.

Love how people are still standing super close to the plane taking dumb selfies of themselves in one of the video clips.

Where has common sense gone these days?

I did not see any overwing slides deployed. Is that a design feature of the MD-90 and are you expected to drop off the rear of the wing? If that is the case, then I can see why passengers are huddled atop the wing.

LAXdenizen wrote:

I did not see any overwing slides deployed. Is that a design feature of the MD-90 and are you expected to drop off the rear of the wing? If that is the case, then I can see why passengers are huddled atop the wing.

No offwing slides on this aircraft. Passengers are to slide off the back of the wing (down the flaps) and move away from the aircraft.

Yes, unfortunately these days this is a "non-event". No one listens to or watches the safety videos and cannot grasp the concept that the plane could blow up at any time. They jump down, get the cell phone cameras out and just stand right there doing what is the most important thing these days: recording it for social media. I think i did see some uniformed people jump down before the passengers...not sure if they were deadheading crew or not, but i think someone should have yelled at those perplexed wing occupants to slide down the flaps, unless they had not been put down for some reason. Chalk another one up to the apparently lost concept of saving yourself and your loved ones before you save the rollerboard.

ozark1 wrote:

Yes, unfortunately these days this is a "non-event". No one listens to or watches the safety videos and cannot grasp the concept that the plane could blow up at any time. They jump down, get the cell phone cameras out and just stand right there doing what is the most important thing these days: recording it for social media. I think i did see some uniformed people jump down before the passengers...not sure if they were deadheading crew or not, but i think someone should have yelled at those perplexed wing occupants to slide down the flaps, unless they had not been put down for some reason. Chalk another one up to the apparently lost concept of saving yourself and your loved ones before you save the rollerboard.

I bet you watched their social media posts, didn't you? Why would you do that?

Zero injuries and no deaths...pretty good for nobody paying attention to anything safety related!

vanguard737 wrote:

Another evacuation caught on tape that I find completely infuriating.

- Passengers waisting precious time by tossing their baggage down the escape slide before they themselves slide down.
- Hoards of passengers exiting through the over-wing exits, only to stand on the wing cluelessly and pointlessly instead of sliding off the back of the wing and getting away from the aircraft. (If you are evacuating because you think the plane may be on fire, then why are you standing over the fuel tanks after you exit the plane?)
- In one video I even saw a man try to climb down the leading edge of the wing even though the safety video says to slide off the back of the wing, even though the flight attendant evacuation commands say to slide off the back of the wing, and even though there are PAINTED ARROWS on the wing indicating which direction to go.

I have no doubt that most if not all of these passengers paid little to no attention to the safety demonstration either because they think they know everything or they just don't care. And then when the news cameras are rolling they talk about the "total chaos" and "lack of coordination" as if it is the airline's fault when in reality it is their own fault for not paying attention or following clear instructions.

If passengers care so little about their own safety, I don't know what else the airlines can do on their own. The government seriously needs to find a way to implement fines for those who disregard their own safety and worse the safety of their fellow travelers. Specifically those who take their luggage with them during an evacuation.

Right...?! How the heck were they allowed to just stand on the wing of the aircraft?!

I've seen kids get off the school bus AT school faster than this so-called emergency evacuation. I'll chalk that up to the simple fact there was no apparent fire and no visible flames, I think it would have been different had that been the case.

Clearly not a great evacuation though. I won't knock Delta for it as I think this would have happened on any US airline, if I'm honest. But does the NTSB or FAA ever look at video like this and make recommendations for improvements? If hundreds of us can sit here and look at this, don't they? Or is the fact that nobody was hurt/killed - which is the most important thing after all - mean that it won't even cross their desks?

CCGPV wrote:

Zero injuries and no deaths...pretty good for nobody paying attention to anything safety related!

But by what margin did this evacuation deviate from the manufacturer's tested evacuation time? A lot.

The FAA needs to be more proactive, warning new, additional evacuation points may need to be installed on the aircraft type, and mandatory company-wide crew re-training required, if slow motion evacuations are repeated.

Passengers don't have evacuation training. Passengers panic and do things no matter what the "rules" are in a high stress situation. Nothing will ever change that. It would be better for everyone in the long run to focus getting pax off the plane in the most efficient manner instead of wasting more precious time arguing with them about baggage.

I think that a statement such as "please dont bring personal belongings with you during an emergency evacuation" should be added to the safety briefing before flights. It may not accomplish much but the thought may enter an instinctive passenger's mind during evacuation.

indcwby wrote:

DL 1854 from DTW to DEN (MD-90) had smoke in cabin after landing. Evacuation occurred on taxiway. I remembered in the past evac videos (EK TVM - DXB) folks were complaining of passenger evacuating with baggage. We see the same here.

Adding to the above comments, I wonder if it's time to implement a hefty fine? I understand the urge to save something like a laptop, which can include critical, hard-to-replace info. But if you make one exception, then it turns into a morass. I can back up my laptop beforehand, if I'm being responsible. Maybe there's a medicine bag which needs saving. But then if the medicine's that critical, then it should be packaged in some small, streamlined way that it can be quickly taken out on the person, such as in a pocket, in such a manner that it does not pose more than minimal obstruction to other evacuating passengers.

I appreciate the thoughts here on implementing a fine for taking carry-ons out the emergency exit. Especially on those small over-wing exits, I can see where even trying to get bags over the doorsill can cost time...

It will require some comprehensive thinking to arrive at a workable policy, but yeah I think it needs doing. Too many people buried in their smartphone dumbed-down worlds, out of touch with any need for quick, selfless action. With the smartphones, it's becoming more and more like herding sheep, and so unfortunately we may need to think in terms of herding mindless animals

2175301 wrote:

vanguard737 wrote:

Another evacuation caught on tape that I find completely infuriating.

Unless you are highly trained in a specific scenario... people react with "gut instincts" instead of thinking about what they are doing.

Emergency evacuation: Grab their most valuable item - and flee to what appears to be the nearest safe point is the common reaction (standing on the wings is safer than being in the cabin). You see the same from burning buildings, etc - unless their lives are in extremely imminent danger - in which case they just flee without any belongings.

Getting upset about it is not going to change what happens. The airlines will never subject passengers to sufficient realistic training to overcome this in any meaningful way (and the FAA and other regulators know that).

My opinion is that people are not realistic if they think they are going to see rational thinking deliberate moving general public who know all the "right moves" in an emergency. That's a fantasy!

Have a great day,

Hefty fines do eventually bite through the crust of stupidity. Add some legal language somewhere during the ticketing process in which the passenger is required to acknowledge the fine if he/she carries luggage off the plane in an emergency. I'd go $5,000, because it's payable (eventually) by most working people, and will leave a financial mark.

ACDC8 wrote:

Passengers don't have evacuation training. Passengers panic and do things no matter what the "rules" are in a high stress situation. Nothing will ever change that. It would be better for everyone in the long run to focus getting pax off the plane in the most efficient manner instead of wasting more precious time arguing with them about baggage.

That may require cutting a lot more - bigger - holes in the fuselage.

I hear ya and agree - but I also think that if the rule is tightened and more of an effort is made to impress upon each passenger the time-danger added by each added "carry-out" bag, some progress could be made. Not everyone is stupid and self-absorbed, I propose adding it in a more graphic way to the safety "skit." Especially now that some airlines are going to seat-back screen demonstrations, just add some graphics of people blocking the aisle with bags, and the smoke and fire taking the passengers out. Show a GIF-like short clip of a fast, non-luggage evacuation, and then show a slowed-down one with luggage getting in the way and people being overcome and falling down. Not to scare the passengers half to death (though horror movies are back in style), but we have become a more visual culture, and there are ways to get through, pictorially, to the cell-zombies.

CO953 wrote:

Hefty fines do eventually bite through the crust of stupidity. Add some legal language somewhere during the ticketing process in which the passenger is required to acknowledge the fine if he/she carries luggage off the plane in an emergency. I'd go $5,000, because it's payable (eventually) by most working people, and will leave a financial mark.

The only way hefty fines will work is if one is presented with the situation on a constant basis. Fortunately, most of us will never be in such a situation let alone multiple times where we will face a possible risk in having a fine imposed on us.

ACDC8 wrote:

CO953 wrote:

Hefty fines do eventually bite through the crust of stupidity. Add some legal language somewhere during the ticketing process in which the passenger is required to acknowledge the fine if he/she carries luggage off the plane in an emergency. I'd go $5,000, because it's payable (eventually) by most working people, and will leave a financial mark.

The only way hefty fines will work is if one is presented with the situation on a constant basis. Fortunately, most of us will never be in such a situation let alone multiple times where we will face a possible risk in having a fine imposed on us.

You do have a point there, that the situation is so rare. I'm thinking that the key to success relies on drumming it into people beforehand - in the safety briefing. The fine acts as the psychological enforcer at the time of the briefing. The only reason to enforce it later would be to preserve the credibility of the briefing,

vanguard737 wrote:

Another evacuation caught on tape that I find completely infuriating.
- Hoards of passengers exiting through the over-wing exits, only to stand on the wing cluelessly and pointlessly instead of sliding off the back of the wing and getting away from the aircraft. (If you are evacuating because you think the plane may be on fire, then why are you standing over the fuel tanks after you exit the plane?)
- In one video I even saw a man try to climb down the leading edge of the wing even though the safety video says to slide off the back of the wing, even though the flight attendant evacuation commands say to slide off the back of the wing, and even though there are PAINTED ARROWS on the wing indicating which direction to go.

I've always wondered about the overwing exits on the DC9 and 737 family.

I'm just an aviation enthusiast, I do pay attention during the safety briefing, and look at the safety card on every flight I take.

That all being said the DC9 and 737 overwing exits kindof freak me out. Before I started writing this I didn't know how far up the wing was from the ground, I probably would've guessed 4 or 5 feet from memory of flying on both of these types. Per a NW Training Video its 3 feet, but if I'm standing ontop of a wing that is 3 feet above the ground thats 8 feet from my head to the ground, and that seems dangerous to me. More dangerous than hanging out on the wing of an airplane that had a bit of thin smoke in the cabin.

I'd be curious if there have been any thoughts of painting iconography explaining sit and slide on the outside of the plane around the window exits. Yes the arrow tells me which way I'm supposed to go, but how am I supposed to go there?

Given that the 737 is still in production and will be for a long time, this exit type will be with us for a long time, so it makes sense to figure out how to smooth this evacuation route out.

CO953 wrote:

You do have a point there, that the situation is so rare. I'm thinking that the key to success relies on drumming it into people beforehand - in the safety briefing. The fine acts as the psychological enforcer at the time of the briefing. The only reason to enforce it later would be to preserve the credibility of the briefing,

I agree with adding it to the safety briefing, no harm in that. It'll probably discourage some people from taking baggage with them, some still will - but every little bit would help, no question about that. But I'd be against implementing a fine - an evacuation is a stressful situation as is, Average Joe just isn't thinking in a rational state at that time and one couldn't expect them to.

CO953 wrote:

indcwby wrote:

DL 1854 from DTW to DEN (MD-90) had smoke in cabin after landing. Evacuation occurred on taxiway. I remembered in the past evac videos (EK TVM - DXB) folks were complaining of passenger evacuating with baggage. We see the same here.

Adding to the above comments, I wonder if it's time to implement a hefty fine? I understand the urge to save something like a laptop, which can include critical, hard-to-replace info. But if you make one exception, then it turns into a morass. I can back up my laptop beforehand, if I'm being responsible. Maybe there's a medicine bag which needs saving. But then if the medicine's that critical, then it should be packaged in some small, streamlined way that it can be quickly taken out on the person, such as in a pocket, in such a manner that it does not pose more than minimal obstruction to other evacuating passengers.

I appreciate the thoughts here on implementing a fine for taking carry-ons out the emergency exit. Especially on those small over-wing exits, I can see where even trying to get bags over the doorsill can cost time...

It will require some comprehensive thinking to arrive at a workable policy, but yeah I think it needs doing. Too many people buried in their smartphone dumbed-down worlds, out of touch with any need for quick, selfless action. With the smartphones, it's becoming more and more like herding sheep, and so unfortunately we may need to think in terms of herding mindless animals

When was the last time someone died because of a slow evacuation caused by a phone? Oh that's right before smartphones existed.... stop with this silly nostalgia crap. People are more aware and handle evacuations better today than in the past and the statistics show that.

neomax wrote:

This is a non-event.

This was certaibly a scary experience for everyone on board. Especially because most people not on here hate flying anyway, we are a very small minority. This was a scary flight for people.

I do think a "do not touch or remove bags in an evacuation" needs to be added to the safety announcements . There should be a federal fine for removing a bag in an emergency evacuation. It is sad people think it's a great selfie moment like it's reality tv or a video game, this is real.....smoke and fire on an airplane in any situation is no joke.

The qantas crew are trained to go into an “chant” as soon as they start evacuating. I think it’s sone thing like “evacuate, evacuate, leave everything behind”.

It’s done loudy, repeatedly and in sync to combat some of the “sheep” mentality of people in these situations.

Ps - Whilst the image of everyone standing on the wing (aka fuel tank) is kinda funny it is also very concerning.

Fire or not, if there's smoke in the cabin, you want to get out. You could hear coughing in one of the videos. Wonder how much longer people were subjected to whatever was in the cabin due to people grabbing their bags?

I also could hear a few times people being told to slide off the wing. It was hard to hear from where the video was shot.

Not blaming DL or their crew for anything, but maybe there were opportunities in this evac to have executed better?

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Fire or not, if there's smoke in the cabin, you want to get out. You could hear coughing in one of the videos. Wonder how much longer people were subjected to whatever was in the cabin due to people grabbing their bags?

I also could hear a few times people being told to slide off the wing. It was hard to hear from where the video was shot.

Not blaming DL or their crew for anything, but maybe there were opportunities in this evac to have executed better?

Every incident is an opportunity to learn and look at any way to improve things

ACDC8 wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Fire or not, if there's smoke in the cabin, you want to get out. You could hear coughing in one of the videos. Wonder how much longer people were subjected to whatever was in the cabin due to people grabbing their bags?

I also could hear a few times people being told to slide off the wing. It was hard to hear from where the video was shot.

Not blaming DL or their crew for anything, but maybe there were opportunities in this evac to have executed better?

Every incident is an opportunity to learn and look at any way to improve things

Absolutely. More than anything, I always wonder what is being said in the cabin to get people out? I hope to never have to find out.

Just saw the pics in the Australian news today. Again! More idiots with bags. Cant believe that guy wearing that large backpack!

This is the most nonchalant slide evacuation I've ever seen. I've seen people deplane faster when they have a tight connection.

I'm curious as to the decision criteria to order a slide evacuation once on the ground in this situation versus other incidents where there are emergency landings due to smoke in the cockpit/cabin, and they don't do a slide evacuation.

The bigger question is when will this aircraft retire?

Just saw the aircraft at DEN parked next to the DL gates in A. Kinda surprised they pulled it next to the concourse like that just because it looks bad. Could only see the right side of the aircraft but it looked like the aft overwing exit wasn’t used and the forward overwing exit door was gone and had some covering over it. Tail cone was gone as well.

What kind of time frame should it take to get this aircraft back in service after an event like this?

I have a solution, electronics off and headphones out during the safety drill

vanguard737 wrote:

Another evacuation caught on tape that I find completely infuriating.

It is a hoot to see all the indignant post about carting one's luggage off the plane in an emergency. And yes, I get it, the rules ensure the safe evacuation of the aircraft's most precious cargo - the passengers. Personal items are secondary and (could) slow the evacuation. But here's my thought - in all the evacuation videos I've seen on this site and youtube and elsewhere, I have yet to see any evidence that folks carting off their personal items has resulted in injury-or death-to a fellow passenger or crew member. And we've seen lots of these evacuation videos over the past few years.

Given that every evacuation has been without loss of life (that I've seen on this post at least) perhaps we can relax the militant attitude a bit.

I've never been in an evacuation emergency - but I suspect that if I saw the plane burning around me, I'd bolt with or without the shirt on my back. The evacuation of this Delta flight is remarkable for the lack of urgency by anyone.

So was there even an emergency landing, since it doesn’t appear they were met by ARFF?

Did the smoke appear on taxi in after landing?