leghorn
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University professor claims: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 2:18 pm

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2018/0 ... er-en-iran

french language canadian report.
all very speculative.
hopefully this translates
https://translate.google.com/#fr/en/htt ... er-en-iran

report mentions requirement for 90% foreign content, circumventing sanctions through third party leasing and absence of US competitor in the class.
If the objective is to drive Iran in to the ground I don't see why they'd even allow CRJ900s or Q400s but prohibit 737 and 320s.
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri May 11, 2018 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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neomax
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 2:30 pm

What they really need to sell is the CSeries.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 2:44 pm

leghorn wrote:
report mentions requirement for 90% foreign content, circumventing sanctions through third party leasing and absence of US competitor in the class.

As you say, it's very speculative, and none of those thoughts come from BBD sources.

FWIW, they article refers only to speculations made by a University teacher.

"Ça va tomber à moins qu’on trouve une astuce, estime Mehran Ebrahimi, professeur de management à l’Université du Québec à Montréal"
 
Aircellist
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 3:16 pm

neomax wrote:
What they really need to sell is the CSeries.


Allow me to correct: "what they really needed to sell…" This ship has sailed, and Airbus will now sell A200s.

I still feel a little bit bitter about how BBD handled the whole matter (or, more honestly, what I perceive thereof). But I don't want to derive the thread too much.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 4:35 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Since the CRJ is a Canadian aircraft, I don't see what the United States government has to say about this. It's a case between Canada and Iran.

The Iranians are in need of aircraft and will buy what they can get. If they can't get American planes, they'll buy Canadian or European or maybe even Russian planes. Trump has cut his own fingers when he blew up the deal with Iran whilst the rest of the world didn't.



Well the US has said they will sanction any country that do business with Iran. I'm guessing that includes Canada, Germany, UK, France etc
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 4:35 pm

Since the CRJ is a Canadian aircraft, I don't see what the United States government has to say about this. It's a case between Canada and Iran.

The Iranians are in need of aircraft and will buy what they can get. If they can't get American planes, they'll buy Canadian or European or maybe even Russian planes. Trump has cut his own fingers when he blew up the deal with Iran whilst the rest of the world didn't.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 4:40 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Since the CRJ is a Canadian aircraft, I don't see what the United States government has to say about this. It's a case between Canada and Iran.

The Iranians are in need of aircraft and will buy what they can get. If they can't get American planes, they'll buy Canadian or European or maybe even Russian planes. Trump has cut his own fingers when he blew up the deal with Iran whilst the rest of the world didn't.

As last long as they deliver without the engines and, IIRC, avionics, you would be correct.

I've personally seen engines exported for benign civil applications used to power military vehicles by hostile governments.

Not that the CF-34 is state of the art, but an engine is an engine as far as export law, unless classified.

Lightsaber
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 4:44 pm

I am going to try my best not to go political here.... But... I cant!! This is absolute garbage! So many people lose out here, and it just seems like old fashioned bullying to me.

Let's just put the nuke issue to the side. Iran still has commercial aviation, and I believe it is absolutely disgusting that they are now banned from buying any US manufactured aircraft. How is it that Bombardier is pushed against the wall on this as well?

And I suspect this is all a money move, not a political. Look at the price of oil skyrocket again?!! I suspect we are about to witness the next downturn in the airline industry.

If I was Bombardier, I wouldn't pass up the chance to sell planes to Iran. I think Bombardier should push the C Series like others have mentioned.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
910A
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 4:56 pm

First of all, currently there is no sanctions in place that would prevent selling aircraft, it could be awhile to reinstate them. (I wonder if the other six countries involved in the treaty will just tell Trump to shove it and resume commerce.) When Tillerson was the US Secretary of State he dismantled the Sanctions bureau in the State Department. The person in charge of sanctions in the Treasury Department resigned and wasn't replaced. http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/19/uni ... s-experts/

But the Trump administration has been gradually sidelining diplomats and other civil servants responsible for advocating and negotiating such penalties with foreign governments, a development that has sapped morale at the State Department and prompted a flight of critical sanctions experts from the U.S. diplomatic corps — a trend that could hamstring the administration’s ability to effectively craft sanctions in the future.

In the latest departure, the State Department’s most experienced U.N.-based sanctions expert stepped down Friday, sending more than a decade of expertise out the door and contributing to a bout of brain drain that is diminishing the role of American diplomats in shaping Washington’s sanctions policy, according to several current and former U.S. officials.

The exit of Joshua Black — a veteran civil servant who served as America’s chief sanctions and counterterrorism expert at the United Nations for much of the past decade — comes at a time when the State Department’s career foreign service and civil service officers have already been sidelined in internal government debates on how to calibrate international sanctions against U.S. adversaries from Iran to North Korea.
 
mham001
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 5:10 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Well the US has said they will sanction any country that do business with Iran. I'm guessing that includes Canada, Germany, UK, France etc


They would go after the company, not the country. If it was determined BBD was exporting US content, then the company would face restrictions on business in the US and possible banking problems.

Any responsible executive with basic knowledge of current events should have known that doing business with Iran still carried extremely high risks and planned accordingly.
 
Blerg
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 5:10 pm

They probably realize that unless they do something about Iran, the whole market will be flooded with SSJ aircraft. Plus, it goes to show that no one besides Trump wants more tension with Iran.
 
mham001
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 5:12 pm

Blerg wrote:
They probably realize that unless they do something about Iran, the whole market will be flooded with SSJ aircraft.


Some might say that would be a positive result.
 
devron
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 5:13 pm

As pointed out above there are currently no sanctions in place just serious movements towards them. Now might be the time to sell a few airframes and deliver them fast.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 5:20 pm

devron wrote:
As pointed out above there are currently no sanctions in place just serious movements towards them. Now might be the time to sell a few airframes and deliver them fast.

Instead of granting the sale to the SSJ, why not.

Could any new CRJ900s on the production line be diverted for that purpose? If not, any idle/underused CRJ705/900s anywhere, that could be sold as is?

About military use of the CF34, remember that S-3 Vikings and A-10s Thunderbolt IIs were the early users...
 
burnsie28
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 5:34 pm

lightsaber wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Since the CRJ is a Canadian aircraft, I don't see what the United States government has to say about this. It's a case between Canada and Iran.

The Iranians are in need of aircraft and will buy what they can get. If they can't get American planes, they'll buy Canadian or European or maybe even Russian planes. Trump has cut his own fingers when he blew up the deal with Iran whilst the rest of the world didn't.

As last long as they deliver without the engines and, IIRC, avionics, you would be correct.

Lightsaber


Galleys, seats, avionics, engines, and more are all produced by US companies on the Bombardier jets.
 
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 5:37 pm

mham001 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
They probably realize that unless they do something about Iran, the whole market will be flooded with SSJ aircraft.


Some might say that would be a positive result.

Many countries want to develop aircraft that are free of US ITAR rules. Engines, nacelles, avionics, and landing gear tend to be the stop delivery components.

Just develop product good enough to compete, in high enough volumes to achieve economy of scale discounts, that exceeds the performance of 15+ year old product.

The ARJ-21 is a prime example of how that is a challenge. The SSJ isn't Russified yet for many reasons.

But if any one company wilfully violates ITAR, they are done. It is a brutal light switch that cuts that company off from all ITAR products.

It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the rules. They commerce department, DoD, and several UK agencies get the only votes and one vote no means no. It takes all at least abstaining for a yes.

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KICT
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 6:30 pm

Every US ally who was party to the Iran deal should give Trump the middle finger and ignore the threat of sanctions.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
slickvik
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Mortyman wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Since the CRJ is a Canadian aircraft, I don't see what the United States government has to say about this. It's a case between Canada and Iran.

The Iranians are in need of aircraft and will buy what they can get. If they can't get American planes, they'll buy Canadian or European or maybe even Russian planes. Trump has cut his own fingers when he blew up the deal with Iran whilst the rest of the world didn't.



Well the US has said they will sanction any country that do business with Iran. I'm guessing that includes Canada, Germany, UK, France etc


Is this legal under WTO rules?
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 6:42 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Well the US has said they will sanction any country that do business with Iran. I'm guessing that includes Canada, Germany, UK, France etc


TheDuck has lately said so often that they will sanction so many countries for so many reasons, that no one believes him or is scared anymore, because that would hurt the US more than the rest of the world. And because enough is enough.
 
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 6:50 pm

mham001 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Well the US has said they will sanction any country that do business with Iran. I'm guessing that includes Canada, Germany, UK, France etc


They would go after the company, not the country. If it was determined BBD was exporting US content, then the company would face restrictions on business in the US and possible banking problems.

Any responsible executive with basic knowledge of current events should have known that doing business with Iran still carried extremely high risks and planned accordingly.


Cutting off access to the U.S. banking system is probably the strongest lever. How long would BBD (the whole company) last if it couldn't pay U.S. suppliers and employees? It would be toast in a week.
 
wave46
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 7:19 pm

lightsaber wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
They probably realize that unless they do something about Iran, the whole market will be flooded with SSJ aircraft.


Some might say that would be a positive result.

Many countries want to develop aircraft that are free of US ITAR rules. Engines, nacelles, avionics, and landing gear tend to be the stop delivery components.

Just develop product good enough to compete, in high enough volumes to achieve economy of scale discounts, that exceeds the performance of 15+ year old product.

The ARJ-21 is a prime example of how that is a challenge. The SSJ isn't Russified yet for many reasons.

But if any one company wilfully violates ITAR, they are done. It is a brutal light switch that cuts that company off from all ITAR products.

It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with the rules. They commerce department, DoD, and several UK agencies get the only votes and one vote no means no. It takes all at least abstaining for a yes.

Lightsaber


I do not suspect that BBD would be so foolish as to engage with Iran in the current climate. The downside is huge and the upside so minimal, as I can't see more than a handful of CRJs being sold to Iran. If BBD is that desperate for sales, they're not long for the world.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 8:24 pm

The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.
 
c933103
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 8:37 pm

Remember what happened to the Chinese phone maker trying to sell telecom equipment to Iran. They are not allowed to use any US technology for next 7 years and now they have to halt their operation. Let see what will the US do to Bombardier if Bombardier do the same and how will Bombardier cope with it.
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 9:08 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I am going to try my best not to go political here.... But... I cant!! This is absolute garbage! So many people lose out here, and it just seems like old fashioned bullying to me.

Let's just put the nuke issue to the side. Iran still has commercial aviation, and I believe it is absolutely disgusting that they are now banned from buying any US manufactured aircraft. How is it that Bombardier is pushed against the wall on this as well?

And I suspect this is all a money move, not a political. Look at the price of oil skyrocket again?!! I suspect we are about to witness the next downturn in the airline industry.

If I was Bombardier, I wouldn't pass up the chance to sell planes to Iran. I think Bombardier should push the C Series like others have mentioned.

They can do that! Just get all of the US content off and see what they have to replace it!! Then?? sell AWAY!
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 9:40 pm

c933103 wrote:
Let see what will the US do to Bombardier if Bombardier do the same and how will Bombardier cope with it.

=> That thread title is really misleading! We definitely can't pretend that BBD is attempting to circumvent the sanctions. This is all speculations from an outside commentator - an UQAM teacher.

Anyways, I'm sure BBD's lawyers are most definitely aware of all the implications - and hey, those same lawyers defeated Boeing at the ITC not too long ago... :twisted:
Last edited by ExMilitaryEng on Thu May 10, 2018 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
TranscendZac
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Thu May 10, 2018 9:53 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.

The US is far from alienated. Contrary to the particularly left bent on this website, the US is earning back some needed respect. We’ve been an apologetic pushover the last 10 years. Look at how lopsided NAFTA is and the TPP is. America has been getting screwed business wise, and Iran, North Korea, and others have become very provocative the last 10 years because they knew we had weak leadership. For crying out loud we had HRC and John Kerry as secretary of states...we simply couldn’t have picked a more embarrassing and unqualified pair. Look what they’ve accomplished. The Arab Spring, Benghazi, and a weak Iran agreement.

As far as Bombardier, they should sell what they want so long as they aren’t sending planes with American parts post sanction implementation. It’s unfortunate for the moderate peaceful people of Iran, but the tyrannical regime is to be blamed. Iran is not interested in peace, only conflict because they are motivated by a false radical political ideology that has nothing to do with true Islam.
Zac
 
salttee
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 3:46 am

TranscendZac wrote:
Look what they’ve accomplished. The Arab Spring, Benghazi, and a weak Iran agreement.

Look at what the administration before them accomplished!

LOL
 
c933103
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 4:21 am

TranscendZac wrote:
The US is far from alienated. Contrary to the particularly left bent on this website, the US is earning back some needed respect. We’ve been an apologetic pushover the last 10 years. Look at how lopsided NAFTA is and the TPP is. America has been getting screwed business wise, and Iran, North Korea, and others have become very provocative the last 10 years because they knew we had weak leadership. For crying out loud we had HRC and John Kerry as secretary of states...we simply couldn’t have picked a more embarrassing and unqualified pair. Look what they’ve accomplished. The Arab Spring, Benghazi, and a weak Iran agreement.
As far as Bombardier, they should sell what they want so long as they aren’t sending planes with American parts post sanction implementation. It’s unfortunate for the moderate peaceful people of Iran, but the tyrannical regime is to be blamed. Iran is not interested in peace, only conflict because they are motivated by a false radical political ideology that has nothing to do with true Islam.

How lopsided NAFTA is and TPP is? All I read from non-US news about it when TPP was under negotiation was how US demand other countries withdraw their protection on local agriculture sector and reform the law to match the United States law in order to enter free trade with the United States, that's why countries are angry about the United States leaving the party after they gave out so many concessions
And you thought Iran and North Korea only become a problem in last ten year? Check your history book please.
As for radical regime, maybe you should check your allies in the region first
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 5:05 am

Sell with what engines?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 5:20 am

F9Animal wrote:
I am going to try my best not to go political here.... But... I cant!! This is absolute garbage! So many people lose out here, and it just seems like old fashioned bullying to me.

Let's just put the nuke issue to the side. Iran still has commercial aviation, and I believe it is absolutely disgusting that they are now banned from buying any US manufactured aircraft. How is it that Bombardier is pushed against the wall on this as well?

And I suspect this is all a money move, not a political. Look at the price of oil skyrocket again?!! I suspect we are about to witness the next downturn in the airline industry.

If I was Bombardier, I wouldn't pass up the chance to sell planes to Iran. I think Bombardier should push the C Series like others have mentioned.

Thats a little hard when 50% of the aircraft is made in America. Same reason why Iran hasnt bought the Sukhoi Superjet.
When wasn't America great?


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kitplane01
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 5:37 am

F9Animal wrote:
Let's just put the nuke issue to the side.


No.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 5:39 am

TranscendZac wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.

The US is far from alienated. Contrary to the particularly left bent on this website, the US is earning back some needed respect. We’ve been an apologetic pushover the last 10 years. Look at how lopsided NAFTA is and the TPP is. America has been getting screwed business wise, and Iran, North Korea, and others have become very provocative the last 10 years because they knew we had weak leadership. For crying out loud we had HRC and John Kerry as secretary of states...we simply couldn’t have picked a more embarrassing and unqualified pair. Look what they’ve accomplished. The Arab Spring, Benghazi, and a weak Iran agreement.

As far as Bombardier, they should sell what they want so long as they aren’t sending planes with American parts post sanction implementation. It’s unfortunate for the moderate peaceful people of Iran, but the tyrannical regime is to be blamed. Iran is not interested in peace, only conflict because they are motivated by a false radical political ideology that has nothing to do with true Islam.

I am an American but my parents are Pakistani and we keep in touch with the news at home. I also like to keep in touch with a lot of foreign news sources. I can confirm that the entire world is laughing at us. Also, I should add that the only two wars Iran have fought in its entire existence as an Islamic Republic were to defend itself against a Western Backed illegal invasion by Saddam "WMD" Hussein, and in support of the Assad regime against ISIS and against other rebels in order to keep the country from collapsing.
Last edited by speedbird52 on Fri May 11, 2018 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
crownvic
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 5:39 am

KICT wrote:
Every US ally who was party to the Iran deal should give Trump the middle finger and ignore the threat of sanctions.



Sounds to me that you have been watching way too much CNN.
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 6:46 am

Where would these crj-900s fit? Iran Air has replaced it's Fokker 100 fleet with the new ATR-72s that are being delivered and have already taken delivery of a number of them already. I can't see them being used as IR, only other possible carriers are Aseman and Qeshm Air who both operate the Fokker 100s although again I don't think the CRJ series or regional jets are what Iran needs, the narrow body market for 737 and A320s is where the demand lays mostly.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 8:13 am

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Let see what will the US do to Bombardier if Bombardier do the same and how will Bombardier cope with it.

=> That thread title is really misleading! We definitely can't pretend that BBD is attempting to circumvent the sanctions. This is all speculations from an outside commentator - an UQAM teacher.

Anyways, I'm sure BBD's lawyers are most definitely aware of all the implications - and hey, those same lawyers defeated Boeing at the ITC not too long ago... :twisted:

Did they Really? BBD had to sell itself to Airbus. So who really won?
 
brindabella
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 9:41 am

strfyr51 wrote:
ExMilitaryEng wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Let see what will the US do to Bombardier if Bombardier do the same and how will Bombardier cope with it.

=> That thread title is really misleading! We definitely can't pretend that BBD is attempting to circumvent the sanctions. This is all speculations from an outside commentator - an UQAM teacher.

Anyways, I'm sure BBD's lawyers are most definitely aware of all the implications - and hey, those same lawyers defeated Boeing at the ITC not too long ago... :twisted:

Did they Really? BBD had to sell itself to Airbus. So who really won?


The family owning BBD seem to have come out of it all pretty well indeed!

The Canadian taxpayers, however, look to have been taken to the cleaners.

And I note that EMB is now powering-up a WTO action against BBD.

It would appear to be be extremely hard for BBD to defend given that the EMB products are directly competitive with the Airbus A-series; and that the Canadian Govts, National and Provincial, openly dumped in $Billions to keep BBD (just) afloat.

cheers
Billy
 
dochawk2
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 9:57 am

TranscendZac wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.

The US is far from alienated. Contrary to the particularly left bent on this website, the US is earning back some needed respect. We’ve been an apologetic pushover the last 10 years. Look at how lopsided NAFTA is and the TPP is. America has been getting screwed business wise, and Iran, North Korea, and others have become very provocative the last 10 years because they knew we had weak leadership. For crying out loud we had HRC and John Kerry as secretary of states...we simply couldn’t have picked a more embarrassing and unqualified pair. Look what they’ve accomplished. The Arab Spring, Benghazi, and a weak Iran agreement.

As far as Bombardier, they should sell what they want so long as they aren’t sending planes with American parts post sanction implementation. It’s unfortunate for the moderate peaceful people of Iran, but the tyrannical regime is to be blamed. Iran is not interested in peace, only conflict because they are motivated by a false radical political ideology that has nothing to do with true Islam.


Thank you. Breath of fresh air.
God, give us wings to fly!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 10:08 am

Mortyman wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Since the CRJ is a Canadian aircraft, I don't see what the United States government has to say about this. It's a case between Canada and Iran.

The Iranians are in need of aircraft and will buy what they can get. If they can't get American planes, they'll buy Canadian or European or maybe even Russian planes. Trump has cut his own fingers when he blew up the deal with Iran whilst the rest of the world didn't.



Well the US has said they will sanction any country that do business with Iran. I'm guessing that includes Canada, Germany, UK, France etc


..... and the WTO will rule them illegal, end of story, and until that time they cut Boeing of of parts they need.

lightsaber wrote:
As last long as they deliver without the engines and, IIRC, avionics, you would be correct.


Thales and Rolls Royce are rooting for Trump. Non-US companies will avoid US components for decades to come. Safran Aircraft Engines is probably already looking for a post CFM partnership.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
leghorn
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Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 10:16 am

TranscendZac wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.

The US is far from alienated. Contrary to the particularly left bent on this website, the US is earning back some needed respect.

deleted by poster non-aviation comment.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1716
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 10:33 am

TranscendZac wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.

The US is far from alienated. Contrary to the particularly left bent on this website,


This website has by far the most right-wing posts I see on a regular basis (apart from the rabid brexiteers who infest BBC comments).


the US is earning back some needed respect.


I believe you are truly wide of the mark on that. Every story I read, every comment outside the US, every person I speak to... all point to an absolute plummet in US credibility.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
leghorn
Topic Author
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 10:36 am

LMFNINJA wrote:
Is that such a bad development? Would you trust these European countries who are obsessed with increasing trade with Iran?.

History has shown that many European countries will do anything - including sacrificing one of their own (Czechoslovakia 1938)- in order to pursue their own interests.

And there is quite a resemblance between Nazi Germany 1938 and the current theocracy in Iran. Neither of them are bastions of civil rights and liberties.

Godwin'd
 
LMFNINJA
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:11 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 10:38 am

Skywatcher wrote:
The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.


Is that such a bad development? Would you trust these European countries who are obsessed with increasing trade with Iran?.

History has shown that many European countries will do anything - including sacrificing one of their own (Czechoslovakia 1938)- in order to pursue their own interests.

And there is quite a resemblance between Nazi Germany 1938 and the current theocracy in Iran. Neither of them are bastions of civil rights and liberties.
 
LMFNINJA
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:11 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 11:02 am

leghorn wrote:
LMFNINJA wrote:
Is that such a bad development? Would you trust these European countries who are obsessed with increasing trade with Iran?.

History has shown that many European countries will do anything - including sacrificing one of their own (Czechoslovakia 1938)- in order to pursue their own interests.

And there is quite a resemblance between Nazi Germany 1938 and the current theocracy in Iran. Neither of them are bastions of civil rights and liberties.

Godwin'd



Then perhaps you can explain that to people of the Bahai faith in Iran whose members have been murdered by the regime, or to families of students killed while demonstrating in the streets of Tehran who or the families of children hung by the Iranian regime that these are "normal" occurrences practiced by every nation state.

Many fools in the West conveniently ignore the murderous practices of successive Iranian regimes post 1979. No similarity to Nazi Germany? How would you like to raise your family in such an environment?
 
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CARST
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 11:08 am

The USA disqualified themselves to be taken serious from any international partner. They have a clown running the country and the clown managed to break a multinational contract which all major countries, the EU and Iran agreed on. From now on I guess the US will just be ignored until Trump is gone and sanity comes back to the White House...
 
LMFNINJA
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:11 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 11:13 am

TranscendZac wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.

The US is far from alienated. Contrary to the particularly left bent on this website, the US is earning back some needed respect. We’ve been an apologetic pushover the last 10 years. Look at how lopsided NAFTA is and the TPP is. America has been getting screwed business wise, and Iran, North Korea, and others have become very provocative the last 10 years because they knew we had weak leadership. For crying out loud we had HRC and John Kerry as secretary of states...we simply couldn’t have picked a more embarrassing and unqualified pair. Look what they’ve accomplished. The Arab Spring, Benghazi, and a weak Iran agreement.

As far as Bombardier, they should sell what they want so long as they aren’t sending planes with American parts post sanction implementation. It’s unfortunate for the moderate peaceful people of Iran, but the tyrannical regime is to be blamed. Iran is not interested in peace, only conflict because they are motivated by a false radical political ideology that has nothing to do with true Islam.


Agree 100%. Cheers.
 
NYCSKYGUY
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 11:16 am

It's very interesting that my responses to WHY the US is able to exit the agreement have been removed. These are facts, there's no opinion. The US Senate did not ratify any treaty so this was simply an agreement from our previous president.

***** Removing my post while leaving other posts vilifying the US is exactly the methodology used by dissenters in many universities and news media. Discussion is only allowed if you agree with the moderator, in the case anti-US bias. Discussion is quelled in the name of whatever but the goal of the editing is to simply not allow one side to be heard.
 
LMFNINJA
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:11 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 11:19 am

CARST wrote:
The USA disqualified themselves to be taken serious from any international partner. They have a clown running the country and the clown managed to break a multinational contract which all major countries, the EU and Iran agreed on. From now on I guess the US will just be ignored until Trump is gone and sanity comes back to the White House...


Ironic that whenever there is a trouble spot in the world many countries come running to the U.S. for assistance.

“...sanity comes back to the White House”. In the form of Obama, Kerry and Hillary? Their foreign policy was a disaster and alienated many American allies around the world.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 11:28 am

brindabella wrote:
The family owning BBD seem to have come out of it all pretty well indeed!
Not really, not any better than any other BBd shareholders. However, we may thank them to have created this whole conglomerate, and keeping it here with 1000s of highly paid Canadian jobs.

brindabella wrote:
The Canadian taxpayers, however, look to have been taken to the cleaners.
Not really. Canadian taxpayer's actually got more than what they invested in past/completed BBD programs (via repaid "repayable" loans).
You meant Quebec's taxpayer's maybe? It still look better than the not repayable tax breaks Boeing is receivimg from Washington State. And the Québec Caisse de Depot et Placement is on its way to make a considerable profit with its own BBD investment.
Anyways you look at it, Canadian taxpayer's got it way better with BBD than what they got with the auto bailout by exemple (where we actually lost $Bs - not repayable).
brindabella wrote:
And I note that EMB is now powering-up a WTO action against BBD
I sure hope they do better than the last time (with the ProEx program - where Brazil lost like in a 10 to 1 proportion)
 
LMFNINJA
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:11 pm

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 11:32 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
TranscendZac wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
The states has managed to alienate pretty much every country in the world except Saudi/Israel/maybe Russia. Nasty stuff but I guess that's what the voters want.

The US is far from alienated. Contrary to the particularly left bent on this website,


This website has by far the most right-wing posts I see on a regular basis (apart from the rabid brexiteers who infest BBC comments).


the US is earning back some needed respect.


I believe you are truly wide of the mark on that. Every story I read, every comment outside the US, every person I speak to... all point to an absolute plummet in US credibility.


I am from outside the US and I do not think there has been a plummet in US credibility. How about the three men just released from North Korea?

You must be reading NYT, BBC or the Guardian none of which are known for objective reporting.
 
leghorn
Topic Author
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Bombardier trying to sell CRJ900 to Iran despite US sanctions

Fri May 11, 2018 11:38 am

LMFNINJA wrote:
leghorn wrote:
LMFNINJA wrote:
Is that such a bad development? Would you trust these European countries who are obsessed with increasing trade with Iran?.

History has shown that many European countries will do anything - including sacrificing one of their own (Czechoslovakia 1938)- in order to pursue their own interests.

And there is quite a resemblance between Nazi Germany 1938 and the current theocracy in Iran. Neither of them are bastions of civil rights and liberties.

Godwin'd



Then perhaps you can explain that to people of the Bahai faith in Iran whose members have been murdered by the regime, or to families of students killed while demonstrating in the streets of Tehran who or the families of children hung by the Iranian regime that these are "normal" occurrences practiced by every nation state.

Many fools in the West conveniently ignore the murderous practices of successive Iranian regimes post 1979. No similarity to Nazi Germany? How would you like to raise your family in such an environment?

Godwin'd squared. Nothing to do with Nazism. Their atrocities and the atrocities carried out by the U.S. armed forces are the foundations of their own infamy.
It also appears that everyone who doesn't agree with you is a fool; not a good way to win the hearts and minds there now, is it?
I don't come to this forum for this sort of U.S. propaganda.
Last edited by leghorn on Fri May 11, 2018 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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