DeltaRules
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Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 10, 2018 10:50 pm

The start date is apparently being finalized, but SLC will restart in 2019. This follows CLE and PIT-SLC's resumptions being announced recently. CMH-SLC ran from 2005-2008 on the E70, M90, and CR9. I believe it was Delta Connection's original E170 route.

http://www.dispatch.com/business/201805 ... -next-year

The article also mentions DL themselves confirm they're in talks to be involved in a CMH TATL flight and that an addition is "getting close", with CMH being a strong market for them overall.
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mwmav8r01
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 10, 2018 11:00 pm

It was one of the routes the E170 was supposed to be able to do. I dont think it did well in the winter.
 
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enilria
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 10, 2018 11:01 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
The start date is apparently being finalized, but SLC will restart in 2019. This follows CLE and PIT-SLC's resumptions being announced recently. CMH-SLC ran from 2005-2008 on the E70, M90, and CR9. I believe it was Delta Connection's original E170 route.

http://www.dispatch.com/business/201805 ... -next-year

The article also mentions DL themselves confirm they're in talks to be involved in a CMH TATL flight and that an addition is "getting close", with CMH being a strong market for them overall.



Nardone said the airport is “getting close” to European service. He said it’s a big investment for an airline to add a European flight, representing a commitment of $45 million to $50 million.
A daily flight is more like $120m. They are talking about seasonal, non-daily? I'd think DL is the least likely to operate CMH-Europe bracketed between several other DL stations with Europe flights. Also, the DL sales staff is not doing route planning.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 10, 2018 11:06 pm

enilria wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
The start date is apparently being finalized, but SLC will restart in 2019. This follows CLE and PIT-SLC's resumptions being announced recently. CMH-SLC ran from 2005-2008 on the E70, M90, and CR9. I believe it was Delta Connection's original E170 route.

http://www.dispatch.com/business/201805 ... -next-year

The article also mentions DL themselves confirm they're in talks to be involved in a CMH TATL flight and that an addition is "getting close", with CMH being a strong market for them overall.



Nardone said the airport is “getting close” to European service. He said it’s a big investment for an airline to add a European flight, representing a commitment of $45 million to $50 million.
A daily flight is more like $120m. They are talking about seasonal, non-daily? I'd think DL is the least likely to operate CMH-Europe bracketed between several other DL stations with Europe flights. Also, the DL sales staff is not doing route planning.


I would guess it would start as seasonal, non-daily, and would be allowed to sink or swim from there.

Excluding the hub at DTW, none of the cities in the region have a flight to AMS. PIT, IND, and even CVG are CDG-only. That's where my bet rides.

Plus, money talks.

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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 10, 2018 11:10 pm

You'd think they would have an updated photo of Delta's livery.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 10, 2018 11:14 pm

Saint-Gobain, a $30B French Conglomerate, has several locations in Ohio making anything from plastics to ceramics. Maybe CMH-CDG is in the works?

https://www.saint-gobain-northamerica.c ... cation-map
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 10, 2018 11:57 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
enilria wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
The start date is apparently being finalized, but SLC will restart in 2019. This follows CLE and PIT-SLC's resumptions being announced recently. CMH-SLC ran from 2005-2008 on the E70, M90, and CR9. I believe it was Delta Connection's original E170 route.

http://www.dispatch.com/business/201805 ... -next-year

The article also mentions DL themselves confirm they're in talks to be involved in a CMH TATL flight and that an addition is "getting close", with CMH being a strong market for them overall.



Nardone said the airport is “getting close” to European service. He said it’s a big investment for an airline to add a European flight, representing a commitment of $45 million to $50 million.
A daily flight is more like $120m. They are talking about seasonal, non-daily? I'd think DL is the least likely to operate CMH-Europe bracketed between several other DL stations with Europe flights. Also, the DL sales staff is not doing route planning.


I would guess it would start as seasonal, non-daily, and would be allowed to sink or swim from there.

Excluding the hub at DTW, none of the cities in the region have a flight to AMS. PIT, IND, and even CVG are CDG-only. That's where my bet rides.

Plus, money talks.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk


SLC is long overdue, in fact it is was somewhat surprising that they added PIT/CLE first

With regards to Europe flights, it will be interesting to see who provides the incentives when an airline decides to commence TATL service at CMH. If it is DL the most likely destination would be AMS considering DL has plans to boost its TATL capacity to that destination.
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 12:05 am

Why is it surprising that PIT and CLE went first? Both are bigger airports than Columbus.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 12:13 am

ncflyer wrote:
Why is it surprising that PIT and CLE went first? Both are bigger airports than Columbus.


Size of airport doesn't really matter, doesn't matter much when it comes to which airports get which routes.

Based on history CLE is more of a UA city, PIT is more of an AA city, and CMH is more of a DL city in my opinion. IIRC, PIT, CMH, and CLE have similar PDEW to SLC, so I would think DL would be more interested in starting service to CMH were it likely has a larger base.
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 12:50 am

DeltaRules wrote:

Excluding the hub at DTW, none of the cities in the region have a flight to AMS. PIT, IND, and even CVG are CDG-only. That's where my bet rides.

The article specifically says London and Paris. No mention of AMS.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 1:14 am

enilria wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

Excluding the hub at DTW, none of the cities in the region have a flight to AMS. PIT, IND, and even CVG are CDG-only. That's where my bet rides.

The article specifically says London and Paris. No mention of AMS.


I don't see a CMH-LHR route unless VS relinquishes a slot (or DL) to accommodate it (or AF/KL give one up). And DL has no feed at LHR so this would be a very thin, P2P route, although one that links CMH with one of the world's most international of cities. I would guess CMH-CDG, for connections. Maybe AMS.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 1:24 am

Midwestindy wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Why is it surprising that PIT and CLE went first? Both are bigger airports than Columbus.


Size of airport doesn't really matter, doesn't matter much when it comes to which airports get which routes.

Based on history CLE is more of a UA city, PIT is more of an AA city, and CMH is more of a DL city in my opinion. IIRC, PIT, CMH, and CLE have similar PDEW to SLC, so I would think DL would be more interested in starting service to CMH were it likely has a larger base.


Of course size of airport matters it matters tremendously as it’s a proxy for overall demand. How about PDEW to all the other cities Delta is hoping to serve beyond SLC in competition with DEN or DFW or ORD or so forth? How about perhaps a desire on DeltAs part to take share from UA at CLE or AA at PIT? How about yields on the PDEW to SLC historically. Point I’m trying to make is I haven’t a clue as to why it went PIT then CLE then CMH. And why those airports had service withdrawn several years back, now reinstated.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 1:30 am

enilria wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

Excluding the hub at DTW, none of the cities in the region have a flight to AMS. PIT, IND, and even CVG are CDG-only. That's where my bet rides.

The article specifically says London and Paris. No mention of AMS.


Right, but CRAA has also mentioned AMS in monthly board reports when Europe has been discussed. Given LHR's only non-hub DL service is to PDX, I figure London is a longshot.
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 1:32 am

DeltaRules wrote:
enilria wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

Excluding the hub at DTW, none of the cities in the region have a flight to AMS. PIT, IND, and even CVG are CDG-only. That's where my bet rides.

The article specifically says London and Paris. No mention of AMS.


Right, but CRAA has also mentioned AMS in monthly board reports when Europe has been discussed. Given LHR's only non-hub DL service is to PDX, I figure London is a longshot.



The article does not state that European service will be via Delta so maybe a DY A321LR route.
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 1:46 am

CVG-CDG is doable with the 75S during the Spring/Summer schedule, but it would have trouble in the winter eastbound, likely blocking off seats. I'm guessing this would be seasonal. As for CMH-SLC, I'd bet heavy money this route will eventually be a CSeries route, considering SLC will eventually be a CSeries base. Its the ideal CSeries route and the right size for such a route.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 1:46 am

SLC was a missing hub for CMH, very important for deltas frequent flyers. Good news it will come back. I bet you they go 319 if I had to guess.

I am going to guess it's CDG and Less than daily or seasonal. Delta 757-200.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 1:54 am

ncflyer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Why is it surprising that PIT and CLE went first? Both are bigger airports than Columbus.


Size of airport doesn't really matter, doesn't matter much when it comes to which airports get which routes.

Based on history CLE is more of a UA city, PIT is more of an AA city, and CMH is more of a DL city in my opinion. IIRC, PIT, CMH, and CLE have similar PDEW to SLC, so I would think DL would be more interested in starting service to CMH were it likely has a larger base.


Of course size of airport matters it matters tremendously as it’s a proxy for overall demand.


No its not, you are over simplifying it. Looking at the size of the airport leaves out several crucial factors: amount of ULCC presence, connecting passengers, and other factors as well that will influence passenger numbers. Imagine, if someone said MCI carried more pax last year than CLE therefore SAT is more deserving of service to X destination....

If you want to use airport size to determine demand than ATL has much higher demand than LAX, ORD, or JFK
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 2:20 am

ncflyer wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Why is it surprising that PIT and CLE went first? Both are bigger airports than Columbus.


Size of airport doesn't really matter, doesn't matter much when it comes to which airports get which routes.

Based on history CLE is more of a UA city, PIT is more of an AA city, and CMH is more of a DL city in my opinion. IIRC, PIT, CMH, and CLE have similar PDEW to SLC, so I would think DL would be more interested in starting service to CMH were it likely has a larger base.


Of course size of airport matters it matters tremendously as it’s a proxy for overall demand. How about PDEW to all the other cities Delta is hoping to serve beyond SLC in competition with DEN or DFW or ORD or so forth? How about perhaps a desire on DeltAs part to take share from UA at CLE or AA at PIT? How about yields on the PDEW to SLC historically. Point I’m trying to make is I haven’t a clue as to why it went PIT then CLE then CMH. And why those airports had service withdrawn several years back, now reinstated.


What do you mean by "size" of the airport? Total passengers? number of runways? Square feet of terminal? I think that's where things got a little sideways.

As for various similar measures related to CMH, the passenger numbers are rising steadily to the point that airlines filling in missing obvious connection points is the next big growth item. I was at the event referenced in the Dispatch Article and the CRAA CEO focused on existing airlines upguaging their aircraft and improving hub connections. SLC on DL is an obvious void to fill, along with SFO on UA, and a few Southwest cities that we do not yet have. It is going to be very interesting here over the next few years, especially with the growth in the local economy, the increase in passengers ad cargo at the airports, and a new leadership approach at the CRAA.
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 2:28 am

DeSpringbokke wrote:
CVG-CDG is doable with the 75S during the Spring/Summer schedule, but it would have trouble in the winter eastbound, likely blocking off seats. I'm guessing this would be seasonal. As for CMH-SLC, I'd bet heavy money this route will eventually be a CSeries route, considering SLC will eventually be a CSeries base. Its the ideal CSeries route and the right size for such a route.

Do you mean CMH?

CVG-AMS used the 752 for awhile and I believe it is the longest (or very close to it) route DL has operated with the 757. Given that CMH-CDG is shorter, it would be just fine.
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 2:29 am

Midwestindy wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
enilria wrote:


Nardone said the airport is “getting close” to European service. He said it’s a big investment for an airline to add a European flight, representing a commitment of $45 million to $50 million.
A daily flight is more like $120m. They are talking about seasonal, non-daily? I'd think DL is the least likely to operate CMH-Europe bracketed between several other DL stations with Europe flights. Also, the DL sales staff is not doing route planning.


I would guess it would start as seasonal, non-daily, and would be allowed to sink or swim from there.

Excluding the hub at DTW, none of the cities in the region have a flight to AMS. PIT, IND, and even CVG are CDG-only. That's where my bet rides.

Plus, money talks.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk


SLC is long overdue, in fact it is was somewhat surprising that they added PIT/CLE first

With regards to Europe flights, it will be interesting to see who provides the incentives when an airline decides to commence TATL service at CMH. If it is DL the most likely destination would be AMS considering DL has plans to boost its TATL capacity to that destination.


I feel like talk about this a lot, but these were the top 5 unserved markets identified from SLC last year: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Columbus, Lihue, and Buffalo. So they've been making their way down the list, starting with Pittsburgh which has 65k O/D pax. Cleveland and Columbus were announced within like 2 months of each other, right?
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 2:38 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
SLC was a missing hub for CMH, very important for deltas frequent flyers. Good news it will come back. I bet you they go 319 if I had to guess.


Exactly. I'll probably be going to San Francisco in 2019 and, if the timing is right on the addition (odds are good since the convention is in September), it'll give me a) another connection option and b) one that evens out the segment lengths a little bit more as opposed to having to connect at ATL/DTW/MSP/LAX. I'd definitely consider SLC if everything else is equal.
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 3:31 am

jubguy3 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

I would guess it would start as seasonal, non-daily, and would be allowed to sink or swim from there.

Excluding the hub at DTW, none of the cities in the region have a flight to AMS. PIT, IND, and even CVG are CDG-only. That's where my bet rides.

Plus, money talks.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk


SLC is long overdue, in fact it is was somewhat surprising that they added PIT/CLE first

With regards to Europe flights, it will be interesting to see who provides the incentives when an airline decides to commence TATL service at CMH. If it is DL the most likely destination would be AMS considering DL has plans to boost its TATL capacity to that destination.


I feel like talk about this a lot, but these were the top 5 unserved markets identified from SLC last year: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Columbus, Lihue, and Buffalo. So they've been making their way down the list, starting with Pittsburgh which has 65k O/D pax. Cleveland and Columbus were announced within like 2 months of each other, right?


That is a good point, this addition is more important for CMH, but it's also really good for deltas SLC frequent flyer and the business community. SLC is a very fast growing place and deltas hub with great access for sales teams and shipping access plays a large part in that. Everyone wins here. Hope it does well. Lihue is all leisure traffic but I wouldn't be surprised If Delta chops that off their list one day.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 7:33 am

BA really need to hurry up and beat DL to the punch here if they want to get their foot in the door in the Midwest, especially as CMH is the last major market in the region without a TATL route. I’ve been saying for a while that BA should serve it, but will they be too late? Again.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 8:05 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Saint-Gobain, a $30B French Conglomerate, has several locations in Ohio making anything from plastics to ceramics. Maybe CMH-CDG is in the works?

https://www.saint-gobain-northamerica.c ... cation-map


Out of 10 offices 9 are in the Celeveland area & 1 is in Columbus. the drive times are 2h 40 min to Detroit & 2h 10 min to Columbus from Cleveland. So where would the 30 min drive time make up for what will be a higher price for the Columbus route & fewer other routes from Cleveland. With factories in many states around the US Saint-Gobain would be better off using Detroit to route around the country & to Europe.
 
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 1:33 pm

TheLion wrote:
BA really need to hurry up and beat DL to the punch here if they want to get their foot in the door in the Midwest, especially as CMH is the last major market in the region without a TATL route. I’ve been saying for a while that BA should serve it, but will they be too late? Again.


The thing hampering BA is they don't have anything smaller than the 787 with which to operate it, which is probably too big a plane unless somebody threw lots of cargo on it. If they'd have gone the DL route and held onto and refurbed some 757s, I'd have thought it would be feasible. Discussions in various Ohio threads over the years have seemed to think "BA" would actually be an AA 757, but they don't seem to do much point-to-point TATL flying, especially as compared to DL.
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 2:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Why is it surprising that PIT and CLE went first? Both are bigger airports than Columbus.


Size of airport doesn't really matter, doesn't matter much when it comes to which airports get which routes.

Based on history CLE is more of a UA city, PIT is more of an AA city, and CMH is more of a DL city in my opinion. IIRC, PIT, CMH, and CLE have similar PDEW to SLC, so I would think DL would be more interested in starting service to CMH were it likely has a larger base.


CMH is also closer to SLC than PIT is to SLC for what it's worth.

As for why DL added PIT-SLC first, CLE-SLC second, and CMH-SLC third - I don't know, but relatively speaking the SLC additions are all not too far apart from each other. When DL added SLC-PIT flying over the OH markets, I originally thought DL was viewing that there was most opportunity on the PIT side. FWIW, I'd guess that PIT is quickly losing any and all ties to being an AA city, especially after AA nixed the PIT-LAX route. But it appears DL is just adding SLC routes.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 2:21 pm

phluser wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
ncflyer wrote:
Why is it surprising that PIT and CLE went first? Both are bigger airports than Columbus.


Size of airport doesn't really matter, doesn't matter much when it comes to which airports get which routes.

Based on history CLE is more of a UA city, PIT is more of an AA city, and CMH is more of a DL city in my opinion. IIRC, PIT, CMH, and CLE have similar PDEW to SLC, so I would think DL would be more interested in starting service to CMH were it likely has a larger base.


CMH is also closer to SLC than PIT is to SLC for what it's worth.

As for why DL added PIT-SLC first, CLE-SLC second, and CMH-SLC third - I don't know, but relatively speaking the SLC additions are all not too far apart from each other. When DL added SLC-PIT flying over the OH markets, I originally thought DL was viewing that there was most opportunity on the PIT side. FWIW, I'd guess that PIT is quickly losing any and all ties to being an AA city, especially after AA nixed the PIT-LAX route. But it appears DL is just adding SLC routes.


Also, something interesting to note is that CMH has a Skyclub and PIT and CLE don't have Skyclubs
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
Capn
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 3:06 pm

Does any one have the PDEW for BUF to SLC ?
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ricport
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 6:40 pm

Good news for my beloved hometown.

I think many on here are not reading the article:

"Airport authority CEO Joseph Nardone, who also took part in Wednesday’s program, thanked Delta and added that his team continues to focus on attracting more service, with a special focus on the West Coast and Europe."

That DOESN'T necessarily mean with DL. Not sure who would be the best fit for Europe service, but if BA can make MSY - LHR a go, there's got to be someone who will fill the niche.

Now all CMH needs is UA nonstops to SFO.
 
MastaHanky
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 6:58 pm

Capn wrote:
Does any one have the PDEW for BUF to SLC ?


56 PDEW, and it's VERY seasonal....usually in the 70s during the summer, and dipping down in the 20s during the winter. I wouldn't expect a BUF-SLC route any time soon - I think CMH is the last major add out east for SLC for a while.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 7:12 pm

ricport wrote:
but if BA can make MSY - LHR a go, there's got to be someone who will fill the niche.

Not really sure such a comparison is logical....

As per the SabreMI numbers when AUS got its flight; MSY had nearly double the PDEW to Europe than CMH, and at a higher average fare too. It's also a far larger and well-known international tourism market than CMH could ever hope to be, which made organic growth easy.

CMH may be a similar airport in total throughput (FAA Medium-Hub), but it's certainly not the equal of AUS/MSY/BNA as an int'l attractor.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
bkflyguy
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 8:00 pm

mwmav8r01 wrote:
It was one of the routes the E170 was supposed to be able to do. I dont think it did well in the winter.


It did not. I flew this in about 06. We had to stop at MCI for gas, although we had a 200mph wind right on the nose, as I recall the pilot telling us. He said we could either leave bags behind or stop for gas and made the decision to stop.
 
msycajun
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Fri May 11, 2018 8:17 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
ricport wrote:
but if BA can make MSY - LHR a go, there's got to be someone who will fill the niche.

Not really sure such a comparison is logical....

As per the SabreMI numbers when AUS got its flight; MSY had nearly double the PDEW to Europe than CMH, and at a higher average fare too. It's also a far larger and well-known international tourism market than CMH could ever hope to be, which made organic growth easy.

CMH may be a similar airport in total throughput (FAA Medium-Hub), but it's certainly not the equal of AUS/MSY/BNA as an int'l attractor.


And the closest airport with nonstops to Europe from MSY is 350 miles away, so you have a broad catchment area. CMH has a disadvantage of now having 4 airports within 200 miles that have nonstops to Europe.
 
Capn
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 12, 2018 1:25 am

MastaHanky wrote:
Capn wrote:
Does any one have the PDEW for BUF to SLC ?


56 PDEW, and it's VERY seasonal....usually in the 70s during the summer, and dipping down in the 20s during the winter. I wouldn't expect a BUF-SLC route any time soon - I think CMH is the last major add out east for SLC for a while.


Thanks for your reply.
May I please impose on you for the PDEW for SDF SLC and RIC SLC?
Thanks in advance
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 12, 2018 1:33 am

Capn wrote:
MastaHanky wrote:
Capn wrote:
Does any one have the PDEW for BUF to SLC ?


56 PDEW, and it's VERY seasonal....usually in the 70s during the summer, and dipping down in the 20s during the winter. I wouldn't expect a BUF-SLC route any time soon - I think CMH is the last major add out east for SLC for a while.


Thanks for your reply.
May I please impose on you for the PDEW for SDF SLC and RIC SLC?
Thanks in advance


RIC-SLC
Q1, Q2, and Q4 are all around 42 PDEW, Q3 reaches 51 PDEW

SDF
Q1, Q2, and Q4 are around 33-35 PDEW, Q3 reaches around 45 PDEW
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 12, 2018 2:32 am

Midwestindy wrote:
phluser wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Size of airport doesn't really matter, doesn't matter much when it comes to which airports get which routes.

Based on history CLE is more of a UA city, PIT is more of an AA city, and CMH is more of a DL city in my opinion. IIRC, PIT, CMH, and CLE have similar PDEW to SLC, so I would think DL would be more interested in starting service to CMH were it likely has a larger base.


CMH is also closer to SLC than PIT is to SLC for what it's worth.

As for why DL added PIT-SLC first, CLE-SLC second, and CMH-SLC third - I don't know, but relatively speaking the SLC additions are all not too far apart from each other. When DL added SLC-PIT flying over the OH markets, I originally thought DL was viewing that there was most opportunity on the PIT side. FWIW, I'd guess that PIT is quickly losing any and all ties to being an AA city, especially after AA nixed the PIT-LAX route. But it appears DL is just adding SLC routes.


Also, something interesting to note is that CMH has a Skyclub and PIT and CLE don't have Skyclubs


CMH actually doesn't, though there's some real estate inside Concourse C which could make for a nice one if they decided to add one.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 12, 2018 2:34 am

DeltaRules wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
phluser wrote:

CMH is also closer to SLC than PIT is to SLC for what it's worth.

As for why DL added PIT-SLC first, CLE-SLC second, and CMH-SLC third - I don't know, but relatively speaking the SLC additions are all not too far apart from each other. When DL added SLC-PIT flying over the OH markets, I originally thought DL was viewing that there was most opportunity on the PIT side. FWIW, I'd guess that PIT is quickly losing any and all ties to being an AA city, especially after AA nixed the PIT-LAX route. But it appears DL is just adding SLC routes.


Also, something interesting to note is that CMH has a Skyclub and PIT and CLE don't have Skyclubs


CMH actually doesn't, though there's some real estate inside Concourse C which could make for a nice one if they decided to add one.


Whoops that's my bad, I thought I saw it on the Sky Club locations page, but I probably wasn't paying attention
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
Buffalomatt1027
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 12, 2018 1:27 pm

MastaHanky wrote:
Capn wrote:
Does any one have the PDEW for BUF to SLC ?


56 PDEW, and it's VERY seasonal....usually in the 70s during the summer, and dipping down in the 20s during the winter. I wouldn't expect a BUF-SLC route any time soon - I think CMH is the last major add out east for SLC for a while.


Unless Canadians love SLC magically and come down to Buffalo to fly out .... i dont see that happening. I only see 1 direct flight from Toronto to SLC. That was it.
 
Capn
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 12, 2018 1:40 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Capn wrote:
MastaHanky wrote:

56 PDEW, and it's VERY seasonal....usually in the 70s during the summer, and dipping down in the 20s during the winter. I wouldn't expect a BUF-SLC route any time soon - I think CMH is the last major add out east for SLC for a while.


Thanks for your reply.
May I please impose on you for the PDEW for SDF SLC and RIC SLC?
Thanks in advance


RIC-SLC
Q1, Q2, and Q4 are all around 42 PDEW, Q3 reaches 51 PDEW

SDF
Q1, Q2, and Q4 are around 33-35 PDEW, Q3 reaches around 45 PDEW


Thanks again
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 17, 2018 12:17 am

ricport wrote:
That DOESN'T necessarily mean with DL. Not sure who would be the best fit for Europe service, but if BA can make MSY - LHR a go, there's got to be someone who will fill the niche


BA got about $3,400,000 in subsidies over 3 years to start the MSY-LHR route. I suspect DL, or any airline CMH is talking to, is looking for a similar handout to start a CHM TATL route.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 17, 2018 1:13 am

Delta is growing its Italy network from Atlanta with the start of summer seasonal service from Atlanta to both Milan and Venice. The flights, which operate daily join those from New York-JFK-Venice and Detroit-Rome, which are already in operation for the summer.

A second daily nonstop flight from Atlanta to Rome begins next week, joining the year-round nonstop service. In total, Delta will operate up to seven flights a day from the U.S. to three airports in Italy this summer.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 17, 2018 3:20 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
Delta is growing its Italy network from Atlanta with the start of summer seasonal service from Atlanta to both Milan and Venice. The flights, which operate daily join those from New York-JFK-Venice and Detroit-Rome, which are already in operation for the summer.

A second daily nonstop flight from Atlanta to Rome begins next week, joining the year-round nonstop service. In total, Delta will operate up to seven flights a day from the U.S. to three airports in Italy this summer.


That's super. But what does it have to do with CMH, which is the thread topic?
 
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ricport
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 17, 2018 12:54 pm

msycajun wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
ricport wrote:
but if BA can make MSY - LHR a go, there's got to be someone who will fill the niche.

Not really sure such a comparison is logical....

As per the SabreMI numbers when AUS got its flight; MSY had nearly double the PDEW to Europe than CMH, and at a higher average fare too. It's also a far larger and well-known international tourism market than CMH could ever hope to be, which made organic growth easy.

CMH may be a similar airport in total throughput (FAA Medium-Hub), but it's certainly not the equal of AUS/MSY/BNA as an int'l attractor.


And the closest airport with nonstops to Europe from MSY is 350 miles away, so you have a broad catchment area. CMH has a disadvantage of now having 4 airports within 200 miles that have nonstops to Europe.


Granted, MSY has a higher PDEW and CMH will never be a huge tourist destination, but are there really enough global companies in the region to fill those seats in J with full-fare customers? Not wishing ill on the service, but there are far more global companies in central and western Ohio alone than in the entirety of Louisiana. Also, keep in mind that most of the other European service in Ohio consists of WW & FI (save for the DL CVG-CDG run), where biz pax can look forward to no interlining, being nickeled and dimed for everything short of air, etc. While I'm dubious of the success of CMH - Europe service, the numbers do show that CMH is the second-largest area (just a hare's breath short of MCI) without Europe service. Frankly, with all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, I'm not so sure some kind of less-than-daily service to NRT or a widebody one-stop via SFO or LAX might not be worth a try?

Also, remember that BWI, with a much larger base than MSY, still has to pay BA to keep its service there. Your pols are giving BA $1.4 million a year. Guaranteed.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Thu May 17, 2018 1:00 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Also, something interesting to note is that CMH has a Skyclub and PIT and CLE don't have Skyclubs


CMH actually doesn't, though there's some real estate inside Concourse C which could make for a nice one if they decided to add one.


Whoops that's my bad, I thought I saw it on the Sky Club locations page, but I probably wasn't paying attention


No problem, with the DL presence, you'd think there'd be one at CMH. That said, Nardone said last week when asked at an aviation event that a club of some sort is on their list and, specifically, a SkyClub might happen in conjunction with a TATL flight.

Thinking about the space available at the airport, DL seems to be the only option for a club. The last time I was on B, most of the retail space was taken, including the former TWA/HP club. In other words, AA/UA have nowhere to put one I can think of.
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LAX772LR
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 19, 2018 4:35 am

ricport wrote:
Granted, MSY has a higher PDEW and CMH will never be a huge tourist destination, but are there really enough global companies in the region to fill those seats in J with full-fare customers? Not wishing ill on the service, but there are far more global companies in central and western Ohio alone than in the entirety of Louisiana.

Why are you speaking as if it were theoretical? The service exists, and the numbers are measurable (both before and after the flights actually began).

You don't need to have a flight operating for airlines to see the numbers and calculate expected stimulation.

Which is why, despite all the "far more global companies in central and western Ohio alone than in the entirety of Louisiana".... which place did two (and soon, four) transatlantic airlines decide to send their aircraft?



ricport wrote:
Also, remember that BWI, with a much larger base than MSY, still has to pay BA to keep its service there.

In a word: so?

The market dynamics of one has nothing to do with the other.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
questions
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 19, 2018 4:53 am

What exactly does CMH have going for it that would make CMH-Europe work? What’s there, eg, corporations with employees who need to travel across the pond?
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 19, 2018 6:27 am

cvgComair wrote:
DeSpringbokke wrote:
CVG-CDG is doable with the 75S during the Spring/Summer schedule, but it would have trouble in the winter eastbound, likely blocking off seats. I'm guessing this would be seasonal. As for CMH-SLC, I'd bet heavy money this route will eventually be a CSeries route, considering SLC will eventually be a CSeries base. Its the ideal CSeries route and the right size for such a route.

Do you mean CMH?

CVG-AMS used the 752 for awhile and I believe it is the longest (or very close to it) route DL has operated with the 757. Given that CMH-CDG is shorter, it would be just fine.


I believe the longest was ATL-BSB, almost the same distance as CVG-AMS.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
SNN707
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Re: Delta To Resume CMH-SLC, Confirms CMH TATL Interest

Sat May 19, 2018 2:53 pm

ricport wrote:
msycajun wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Not really sure such a comparison is logical....

As per the SabreMI numbers when AUS got its flight; MSY had nearly double the PDEW to Europe than CMH, and at a higher average fare too. It's also a far larger and well-known international tourism market than CMH could ever hope to be, which made organic growth easy.

CMH may be a similar airport in total throughput (FAA Medium-Hub), but it's certainly not the equal of AUS/MSY/BNA as an int'l attractor.


And the closest airport with nonstops to Europe from MSY is 350 miles away, so you have a broad catchment area. CMH has a disadvantage of now having 4 airports within 200 miles that have nonstops to Europe.


Granted, MSY has a higher PDEW and CMH will never be a huge tourist destination, but are there really enough global companies in the region to fill those seats in J with full-fare customers? Not wishing ill on the service, but there are far more global companies in central and western Ohio alone than in the entirety of Louisiana. Also, keep in mind that most of the other European service in Ohio consists of WW & FI (save for the DL CVG-CDG run), where biz pax can look forward to no interlining, being nickeled and dimed for everything short of air, etc. While I'm dubious of the success of CMH - Europe service, the numbers do show that CMH is the second-largest area (just a hare's breath short of MCI) without Europe service. Frankly, with all of the Asian companies in central Ohio, I'm not so sure some kind of less-than-daily service to NRT or a widebody one-stop via SFO or LAX might not be worth a try?

Also, remember that BWI, with a much larger base than MSY, still has to pay BA to keep its service there. Your pols are giving BA $1.4 million a year. Guaranteed.


That $1.4M you quote is quickly made back when you land a flight like this. There are many Brits (and Americans) who normally wouldnt fly to MSY via connection. But the nonstop convenience and pricing of package tours certainly have created some demand that may have not been there before. Also, NOLA has several large cruise ships that operate year round and more often in the winters (which are generally mild).

MSY is also out of range for narrowbody TATL ops, therefore the number of airlines which can threaten BA and cannibalize the back of the plane are not there. CMH is and if BA had any kind of success, they would show up quickly.

Lastly, despite not having the corporate presence, by all accounts J has done very well for both BA and DE, with BA substituting 787-9s quite often (not to mention BA moving a lot of inbound cargo to MSY)

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