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Midwestindy
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UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 3:22 am

All appear to be cut on Google flights/ua.com starting in October, and an internal memo went out today about the changes as well.

UA is currently contacting customers with reservations on the discontinued flights to offer them alternate flight options or provide refunds.

Supposedly, Dulles has more capacity and, as such, presents a great opportunity for connecting passengers who make their connections in Newark.” Furthermore UA will be adding frequencies and connectivity in Dulles and eventually growing EWR to the point where it will be almost entirely mainline service.

Other changes supposed to be posted tonight
"Adding new nonstop seasonal service December 19-March 30 between EWR and PSP (Palm Springs, California)

Expanding seasonal service between EWR and EYW (Key West, Florida) to year-round

Increasing service to the following destinations from EWR: BNA (Nashville, Tennessee); BTV (Burlington, Vermont); CHS (Charleston, South Carolina); FLL (Fort Lauderdale, Florida); GSO (Greensboro, South Carolina); MCO (Orlando, Florida); MEM (Memphis, Tennessee); MSY (New Orleans, Louisiana); ORF (Norfolk, Virginia); PBI (West Palm Beach, Florida); PHX (Phoenix, Arizona); PIT (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania); RSW (Fort Myers, Florida); SAT (San Antonio, Texas); SRQ (Sarasota, Florida)

Reallocating United Express flights from AVP (Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania), CHA (Chattanooga, Tennessee) and ITH (Ithaca, New York) from EWR to IAD

We will suspend winter season service December 19-March 30 between EWR and SMF (Sacramento, California)"
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat May 12, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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FA9295
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 3:34 am

EWR to PSP. Should be an interesting route to see pan out. Also, last winter UA suspended IAD-SMF...
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UALFAson
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 3:36 am

Very interesting strategy to release this news on a Friday afternoon/evening, which means they assume there's going to be fallout, which they're trying to minimize.

Many on this site, myself included, have long argued that connections should be handled through IAD and leave EWR for O&D. I thought that was hampered by the relatively high enplanement cost per pax at IAD? Wonder what made UA finally change its mind? Is this more Scott Kirby doing?
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flyguy84
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 4:38 am

It makes sense if the same connecting traffic from the smaller cities can be made over IAD rather than EWR. By moving some regional traffic out of Newark, they can add more mainline.
 
mattnrsa
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 4:53 am

EWR cutting service to 6 (mostly UAX) cities, but adding service to 17 others and eventually transitioning to a mostly mainline operation.

I wonder which cities would remain UAX and how much of an overall capacity increase this would eventually result in.

I’m guessing there would be more of a competitive response (if any) from DL than from AA, which lately has been focusing more on PHL.
 
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Amwest2United
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 5:08 am

UALFAson wrote:
Very interesting strategy to release this news on a Friday afternoon/evening, which means they assume there's going to be fallout, which they're trying to minimize.

Many on this site, myself included, have long argued that connections should be handled through IAD and leave EWR for O&D. I thought that was hampered by the relatively high enplanement cost per pax at IAD? Wonder what made UA finally change its mind? Is this more Scott Kirby doing?



Not really, Every Saturday morning the airline files schedules with the likes of OAG, so they always send out info on Fridays and you see it on Saturday
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spinkid
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 5:26 am

Service from BDL-EWR pretty much only has connecting passengers. The entire state of Connecticut has easier access to NYC and arguably northern New Jersey (even if you live on the R.I.) border via car or train. No need to fly and endure TSA.

I got a VERY cheap connecting flight once BDL-EWR FLL a long time ago and my EWR-BDL portion got cancelled. My car was parked at BDL so I had no option but to wait.
 
VC10er
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 9:51 am

Interesting that United doesn’t have at least one non-stop from EWR to Palm Springs CA? Most everything goes through SFO/LAX and is over $4,000 (sometimes $5000 at peak hours) for RT First. Even though Denver seems very expensive too and 2 stops gets the price down but 2 stops is absurd.
One would think that many in Palm Springs would be retired New York area people, golfers etc. Could they not fill one 737?
Unless I’m reading the UA website schedule wrong!?
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MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 11:16 am

VC10er wrote:
Interesting that United doesn’t have at least one non-stop from EWR to Palm Springs CA? Most everything goes through SFO/LAX and is over $4,000 (sometimes $5000 at peak hours) for RT First.


That's picking up EWR-SFO/LAX premium transcon pricing.

PSP just isn't a destination for much of the East - or they fly to LAX and enjoy the drive into the desert. Looking at PSP arrivals yesterday and I don't see anything east of MSP (Sun Country!) and ORD (AA).
 
mmahpeel
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 12:09 pm

UALFAson wrote:
Very interesting strategy to release this news on a Friday afternoon/evening, which means they assume there's going to be fallout, which they're trying to minimize.



Not really. It is timed with UA's traditionally (and weekly) Friday PM schedule loads into SHARES etc.
 
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Jamake1
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 12:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
PSP just isn't a destination for much of the East - or they fly to LAX and enjoy the drive into the desert. Looking at PSP arrivals yesterday and I don't see anything east of MSP (Sun Country!) and ORD (AA).


Doesn’t JetBlue fly JFK-PSP seasonally?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 12:21 pm

VC10er wrote:
Interesting that United doesn’t have at least one non-stop from EWR to Palm Springs CA? Most everything goes through SFO/LAX and is over $4,000 (sometimes $5000 at peak hours) for RT First. Even though Denver seems very expensive too and 2 stops gets the price down but 2 stops is absurd.
One would think that many in Palm Springs would be retired New York area people, golfers etc. Could they not fill one 737?
Unless I’m reading the UA website schedule wrong!?


They have loaded in seasonal EWR-PSP on the A319
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RJNUT
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 12:23 pm

finally, a "true" reliever hub!. Makes total sense , considering constraints of EWR that have been plaguing for decades and not going away.
 
tphuang
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 12:41 pm

wonderful, their solution for too much capacity and low yields on EWR-FLL/MCO is to add more capacity.
 
VC10er
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 12:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Interesting that United doesn’t have at least one non-stop from EWR to Palm Springs CA? Most everything goes through SFO/LAX and is over $4,000 (sometimes $5000 at peak hours) for RT First.


That's picking up EWR-SFO/LAX premium transcon pricing.

PSP just isn't a destination for much of the East - or they fly to LAX and enjoy the drive into the desert. Looking at PSP arrivals yesterday and I don't see anything east of MSP (Sun Country!) and ORD (AA).


Yes, I realized the cost had to be driven by the p.s. leg. (Slightly off topic but did they ever settle on a new name for that route? Coast seemed to be announced but never used as p.s. was, and promoted. Since they have fallen from the top of that game I wonder if they are avoiding promoting it until something more innovative comes along)

Seasonal is good to know. I shall keep my eye out for it. I hope they can at least fill an A319!
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notdownnlocked
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 12:52 pm

So did everyone in Greensboro pack up overnight and move to South Carolina somewhat like the Baltimore football team did years back?
 
phluser
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 1:05 pm

I suppose they will handle BWI without either EWR or IAD connectivity and push any intra east routing through ORD then, much like LGA when it had periods of limited IAD service?

UA has international markets out of EWR not covered from IAD - so UA will lose some business from Central and Northern Maryland pax or pax heading to that area, that might have been flying BWI-EWR-BOM (for example). They won't drive to IAD to fly IAD-EWR-BOM, but likely drive to IAD to fly an international carrier at that point.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 1:18 pm

Jamake1 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
PSP just isn't a destination for much of the East - or they fly to LAX and enjoy the drive into the desert. Looking at PSP arrivals yesterday and I don't see anything east of MSP (Sun Country!) and ORD (AA).


Doesn’t JetBlue fly JFK-PSP seasonally?

AS flies this seasonally.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 1:21 pm

They are not cutting all United Express service they still have both SBN-EWR flights.
 
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 1:21 pm

Midwestindy wrote:


Reallocating United Express flights from AVP (Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania), CHA (Chattanooga, Tennessee) and ITH (Ithaca, New York) from EWR to IAD



Wow. That's a pretty big deal for those three airports.
 
maximairways
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 1:24 pm

That would suck, I love connecting in EWR from BDL.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 1:33 pm

B6 and AS both fly it.

B6 flies it with mint in Dec.

Catering to the old gays with money and some of the bold and beautiful with second homes..the flights hold their own.

B6 recently expanded service
 
ual763
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 1:52 pm

tphuang wrote:
wonderful, their solution for too much capacity and low yields on EWR-FLL/MCO is to add more capacity.


Are you kidding? Those routes have some of the highest load factors in the entire system. Maybe not as high yielding as EWR-ORD OR EWR-SFO, but “too much capacity”? Hardly
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jetero
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:01 pm

UALFAson wrote:
Many on this site, myself included, have long argued that connections should be handled through IAD and leave EWR for O&D. I thought that was hampered by the relatively high enplanement cost per pax at IAD? Wonder what made UA finally change its mind? Is this more Scott Kirby doing?


Airport costs are largely fixed. They have to pay rent for the terminal or concourse regardless of how many flights they fly. Landing fees are cost recovery by federal law so if the landed weight goes up the rate goes down. There will be some marginal increases but will be a blip with less than 10 UAX flights.

People always think CPE represents some incremental cost to airlines as they grow—it does not, especially at a hub. As long as UA has a 70%ish market share at IAD, it’ll pay 70%ish plus of the costs, and MWAA’s costs won’t increase from a marginal expansion of RJ flights. The same reason it’s impossible for airports to reduce costs proportionally after a major reduction in service, it’s also the case that there is minimal marginal cost for new service—that is, until new facilities are built.
 
phluser
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:12 pm

It just seems bizarre that the strategy is to increase service to markets like ORF out of EWR, while cut off BWI from EWR. Travelers inclined to go long haul international ex EWR would more likely live around BWI over ORF. If it's the what's drive-able vs. what's not for NYC O&D, Virginia Beach to NJ is doable as a drive - scenic drive over the Chesapeake bay bridge tunnel. So, it's higher yield business pax traffic, how much can UA stimulate and win market share over AA and DL's ORF-LGA/JFK.
 
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:13 pm

phluser wrote:
I suppose they will handle BWI without either EWR or IAD connectivity and push any intra east routing through ORD then, much like LGA when it had periods of limited IAD service?

UA has international markets out of EWR not covered from IAD - so UA will lose some business from Central and Northern Maryland pax or pax heading to that area, that might have been flying BWI-EWR-BOM (for example). They won't drive to IAD to fly IAD-EWR-BOM, but likely drive to IAD to fly an international carrier at that point.


With UA out of the EWR-BWI game I wouldn't be surprised if WN restarted service.

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jetero
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:20 pm

phluser wrote:
It just seems bizarre that the strategy is to increase service to markets like ORF out of EWR, while cut off BWI from EWR. Travelers inclined to go long haul international ex EWR would more likely live around BWI over ORF. If it's the what's drive-able vs. what's not for NYC O&D, Virginia Beach to NJ is doable as a drive - scenic drive over the Chesapeake bay bridge tunnel. So, it's higher yield business pax traffic, how much can UA stimulate and win market share over AA and DL's ORF-LGA/JFK.


Downtown Baltimore to EWR: 178 mi, connecting

Downtown Virginia Beach to EWR: 353 mi, connecting

Downtown Baltimore to IAD: 60 mi, potential nonstop service

If you take what’s UA put in the press release at its word and not more of a messaging effort, what would you choose based on your example?
 
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:33 pm

ual763 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
wonderful, their solution for too much capacity and low yields on EWR-FLL/MCO is to add more capacity.


Are you kidding? Those routes have some of the highest load factors in the entire system. Maybe not as high yielding as EWR-ORD OR EWR-SFO, but “too much capacity”? Hardly

You obviously have not seen the yields.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:34 pm

Sounds like they woke up to a reality of:

1. Unslotted EWR with increased competition

2. A Delta hub that is more O and D focused than their hub

3. B6 and now WN with a sizable presence in NYC

That days of wasting gate and runway space on flights with 30 people on them are coming to an end in NYC (beyond LGA due to the perimeter rule)

I cant believe this isnt a bigger deal on this site...this is a fundamental realignment of their hub thinking for NY
 
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cosyr
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:38 pm

I always thought this type of move made sense. IAD fills both the role it previously did and CLE once did for domestic connections. At the same time, they will address some of the strain on EWR, and hopefully address the terrible on time performance of EWR.

I also wonder if part of the reason for fewer Express flights is the construction on Terminal A. Eventually I think it would make sense for Delta to move to the new Terminal A, and UA can take over their arm of Terminal B, and then attach Terminal B and C by a bridge.
 
phluser
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:45 pm

jetero wrote:
phluser wrote:
It just seems bizarre that the strategy is to increase service to markets like ORF out of EWR, while cut off BWI from EWR. Travelers inclined to go long haul international ex EWR would more likely live around BWI over ORF. If it's the what's drive-able vs. what's not for NYC O&D, Virginia Beach to NJ is doable as a drive - scenic drive over the Chesapeake bay bridge tunnel. So, it's higher yield business pax traffic, how much can UA stimulate and win market share over AA and DL's ORF-LGA/JFK.


Downtown Baltimore to EWR: 178 mi, connecting

Downtown Virginia Beach to EWR: 353 mi, connecting

Downtown Baltimore to IAD: 60 mi, potential nonstop service

If you take what’s UA put in the press release at its word and not more of a messaging effort, what would you choose based on your example?


We don't know if there will be BWI to IAD nonstop service but it doesn't solve the issue anyways with EWR having many more international markets from UA than IAD.

I looked on October, BWI to BOM on UA, and it's selling an Air Canada flight through YYZ as the 1 stop. It'd be giving up any BWI based traffic, incoming and outgoing to those markets. I'd think with Baltimore as a bigger market than Norfolk/Virginia Beach, and it should prioritized higher, unless UA's strategy with BWI going forward is akin to it's strategy at OAK.
 
jetero
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:47 pm

phluser wrote:
jetero wrote:
phluser wrote:
It just seems bizarre that the strategy is to increase service to markets like ORF out of EWR, while cut off BWI from EWR. Travelers inclined to go long haul international ex EWR would more likely live around BWI over ORF. If it's the what's drive-able vs. what's not for NYC O&D, Virginia Beach to NJ is doable as a drive - scenic drive over the Chesapeake bay bridge tunnel. So, it's higher yield business pax traffic, how much can UA stimulate and win market share over AA and DL's ORF-LGA/JFK.


Downtown Baltimore to EWR: 178 mi, connecting

Downtown Virginia Beach to EWR: 353 mi, connecting

Downtown Baltimore to IAD: 60 mi, potential nonstop service

If you take what’s UA put in the press release at its word and not more of a messaging effort, what would you choose based on your example?


We don't know if there will be BWI to IAD nonstop service but it doesn't solve the issue anyways with EWR having many more international markets from UA than IAD.

I looked on October, BWI to BOM on UA, and it's selling an Air Canada flight through YYZ. It'd be giving up any BWI based traffic, incoming and outgoing. I'd think with Baltimore as a bigger market than Norfolk, and it should prioritized higher, unless UA's strategy with BWI going forward is akin to it's strategy at OAK.


Of course BWI to IAD won’t get service. It’s called driving 60 miles down the road (for some reason driving 300+ miles if you live in Virginia Beach is somehow OK). Not to mention the train service.

How is UA ceding the market by putting people on BOM flights via YYZ? More than likely a much better passenger experience at YYZ than EWR.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:49 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I cant believe this isnt a bigger deal on this site...this is a fundamental realignment of their hub thinking for NY


Time to make IAD look like CLT
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 2:58 pm

"They have loaded in seasonal EWR-PSP on the A319"

The last time I did IAD-PSP (Yes I know - not EWR) the routing was IAD-IAH // IAH-PSP. Nothing wrong with the routing - except in those days both legs were CR-7s.

I think I would have preferred the 319 if it had been offered.
 
ROCDLFAN
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 3:00 pm

This makes a lot of sense as to why ROC/BUF/PWM and several other medium sized stations began operating an EWR mainline
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LotsaRunway
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 3:13 pm

Maybe this is the first step in fixing the UA Northeast hub mess, but shifting a few Uex routes from EWR to IAD isn't going to do it. It seems to me that two things need to be considered. IAD needs critical mass to take over as the main UA connecting hub in the Northeast. This means IAD would need to add back a whole bunch of flying it has cut in recent years. I was not a supporter of the cutting, but I don't run the numbers. The second thing is that EWR probably needs to maintain two banks of flights where small communities can retain O&D with NYC and connect (including internationally). Keep a minimum of small community connectivity at EWR and move the rest to IAD. This could free up capacity at EWR for more mainline and small communities in the northeast might actually see more reliable UA service since they won't be as impacted by the delays and cancellations that pop up nearly every day at EWR.
 
phluser
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 3:19 pm

jetero wrote:
Of course BWI to IAD won’t get service.

Then, not sure why you wrote:
jetero wrote:
Downtown Baltimore to IAD: 60 mi, potential nonstop service


ABE to PHL has nonstop service on AA. About the same hassle of driving time (from Baltimore to IAD) and AA warrants the service from Allentown to PHL.

jetero wrote:
How is UA ceding the market by putting people on BOM flights via YYZ? More than likely a much better passenger experience at YYZ than EWR.


That's partner Air Canada service, w/ Air Canada receiving the revenue.
jetero wrote:
(for some reason driving 300+ miles if you live in Virginia Beach is somehow OK).


Because Virginia Beach is a much smaller region in population, offering less value to the EWR hub for it's connections to international markets. Majority of the O&D between NJ and that area will likely stick to driving.

I'd like to hear UA's plans for PHF, with connections to IAD and EWR, and the O&D it will capture for high yielding business passengers from there.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 3:37 pm

cosyr wrote:
I always thought this type of move made sense. IAD fills both the role it previously did and CLE once did for domestic connections. At the same time, they will address some of the strain on EWR, and hopefully address the terrible on time performance of EWR.


In some of these markets, IAD also has some O&D that EWR lacks. BDL-IAD has supported mainline pretty consistently over the years while BDL-EWR virtually never has even though EWR is a generally stronger hub.

IAD isn’t very competitive for O&D to the district or inner ring suburbs but it is for a large swath of Virginia and even some of Maryland.
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flyguy84
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Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 3:48 pm

I think the comment that UA made about EWR virtually becoming all mainline foreshadows a 100-seat airplane.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 4:00 pm

tphuang wrote:
ual763 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
wonderful, their solution for too much capacity and low yields on EWR-FLL/MCO is to add more capacity.


Are you kidding? Those routes have some of the highest load factors in the entire system. Maybe not as high yielding as EWR-ORD OR EWR-SFO, but “too much capacity”? Hardly

You obviously have not seen the yields.


United has to play against B6, Southwest, Spirit, AA and Delta NYC to Florida. It just can't cede that volume. That is shrink to profitability gone crazy.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 4:08 pm

jayunited wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Sounds like they woke up to a reality of:

1. Unslotted EWR with increased competition

2. A Delta hub that is more O and D focused than their hub

3. B6 and now WN with a sizable presence in NYC

That days of wasting gate and runway space on flights with 30 people on them are coming to an end in NYC (beyond LGA due to the perimeter rule)

I cant believe this isnt a bigger deal on this site...this is a fundamental realignment of their hub thinking for NY


Exactly your response is spot on.

According to the article posted on Flying Together this is but the start of of a shift in service that will take place at EWR and IAD. EWR may not be slot restricted but EWR is constrained by its location. According to the article UA envisions utilizing larger aircraft into EWR while IAD will serve as the connector hub for the East Coast and most UAX flights over time will shift from EWR to IAD. New York/Newark area is a large O&D market UA beginning later this year UA will transition EWR to a more O&D focused hub while IAD will become more of a connection hub.

People on this site and many other websites have noticed for year UA has underutilized IAD while we have continued to add flights at an already congested EWR. Many people thought and suggested CLE be used as a reliever hub for both EWR and ORD instead CLE was de-hubbed. In about 10 years (or less) ORD's terminal expansion project should be finished so there is light at the end of the ORD tunnel, however UA is probably almost at capacity at EWR and there is no way to add additional capacity. Since CLE now out of the picture that leaves IAD and I think it is the right move, and I believe as IAD grows domestically we might see some growth internationally, but this just the first step of a multi-year approach to grow IAD into a large connector hub while growing EWR by tapping into more O&D passengers.


I agree with what you have written but would suggest that there may also be another dynamic at work: by virtue of its more isolated location and continued growth in NoVa (including possibly HQ2), IAD probably has more potential for O&D growth, and especially O&D growth at good yields, than does EWR.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jayunited
Posts: 1693
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Rumor: UA cutting EWR-BDL/BWI/DSM and while expanding domestic service

Sat May 12, 2018 4:08 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Sounds like they woke up to a reality of:

1. Unslotted EWR with increased competition

2. A Delta hub that is more O and D focused than their hub

3. B6 and now WN with a sizable presence in NYC

That days of wasting gate and runway space on flights with 30 people on them are coming to an end in NYC (beyond LGA due to the perimeter rule)

I cant believe this isnt a bigger deal on this site...this is a fundamental realignment of their hub thinking for NY


Exactly your response is spot on.

According to the article posted on Flying Together this is but the start of of a shift in service that will take place at EWR and IAD. EWR may not be slot restricted but EWR is constrained by its location. According to the article UA envisions utilizing larger aircraft into EWR while IAD will serve as the connector hub for the East Coast and most UAX flights over time will shift from EWR to IAD. New York/Newark area is a large O&D market UA beginning later this year UA will transition EWR to a more O&D focused hub while IAD will become more of a connection hub.

People on this site and many other websites have noticed for year UA has underutilized IAD while we have continued to add flights at an already congested EWR. Many people thought and suggested CLE be used as a reliever hub for both EWR and ORD instead CLE was de-hubbed. In about 10 years (or less) ORD's terminal expansion project should be finished so there is light at the end of the ORD tunnel, however UA is probably almost at capacity at EWR and there is no way to add additional capacity. Since CLE now out of the picture that leaves IAD and I think it is the right move, and I believe as IAD grows domestically we might see some growth internationally, but this just the first step of a multi-year approach to grow IAD into a large connector hub while growing EWR by tapping into more O&D passengers.
 
ILS28ORD
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 4:27 pm

So a shift in strategy at EWR to all mainline for primarily O&D would mean a decrease in daily flights and passenger count at EWR correct? If you eliminate connections then UA won't have the pax numbers to feed multiple non-stops to cities that can't support the O&D from New York without feed from elsewhere. So doesn't this hurt EWR in a way? I'm thinking EWR operation will shrink some, opening the door for other carriers. And fewer daily non stop options for local fliers on UA. How much more O&D can EWR pull from the NYC area with B6, DL and AA already having established hubs and large O&D flier bases at LGA/JFK? I'm sure UA has their large O&D already, but more O&D passengers, one would think, will have to come at the expense of someone else at another airport in the NYC area.
 
flyguy84
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 4:37 pm

ILS28ORD wrote:
So a shift in strategy at EWR to all mainline for primarily O&D would mean a decrease in daily flights and passenger count at EWR correct? If you eliminate connections then UA won't have the pax numbers to feed multiple non-stops to cities that can't support the O&D from New York without feed from elsewhere. So doesn't this hurt EWR in a way? I'm thinking EWR operation will shrink some, opening the door for other carriers. And fewer daily non stop options for local fliers on UA. How much more O&D can EWR pull from the NYC area with B6, DL and AA already having established hubs and large O&D flier bases at LGA/JFK? I'm sure UA has their large O&D already, but more O&D passengers, one would think, will have to come at the expense of someone else at another airport in the NYC area.

No. They will not shrink EWR. They may trim destinations but capacity will likely go unchanged as they add frequency to other markets. This is why I think this foreshadows a 100-seater aircraft which will be considered mainline and can continue to serve some of the smaller/midsize markets.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 849
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 5:06 pm

ILS28ORD wrote:
So a shift in strategy at EWR to all mainline for primarily O&D would mean a decrease in daily flights and passenger count at EWR correct? If you eliminate connections then UA won't have the pax numbers to feed multiple non-stops to cities that can't support the O&D from New York without feed from elsewhere.


Who says they are eliminating connections? They’re just eliminating smaller planes which may have connections and replacing them with larger planes that may also have connections.
 
DC10LAXJFK
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:46 pm

Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 5:22 pm

Here's my question. Will they increase service levels from IAD and will they put in a Polaris lounge?

I fly F from BDL to LAX and to HNL and the islands often, and will go through EWR to get ps service (lie flat). Without driving to BOS or NYC, no other connection will guarantee high level of F/J service to LAX, and I'm 30 mins from BDL so not willing to face a 3 hr drive to/from BOS or NYC with the traffic. Wonder how much existing ps service to LAX is from small NE connections vs all O&D?

Also, if I'm going to HNL or the islands off season, IAD only has a Saturday only nonstop, otherwise it's connection through ORD, DEN or IAH. While they're all lie flat, on 772 it's 8 across and DEN is 752 2x2. As a solo traveler, the 2x1x2 is perfect if no 1x2x1 available as with DL and AA. Would be interested if they increase the HNL flight at IAD to daily year round if they move more connecting traffic there.

That's my very individualized view of the impact.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 5:41 pm

DC10LAXJFK wrote:
Here's my question. Will they increase service levels from IAD and will they put in a Polaris lounge?

Sure they will, as soon as the build the new C/D concourse, so it should be open by 2035 :lol: . I joke, but once the first class is removed from all 763's and 772's, they will probably convert the First Class lounge into a Polaris lounge. IAD's clubs are a mess, but I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to have 2 Polaris lounges and 2 United Clubs, instead of 1 First Class and 3 United Clubs, like now. I have seen J passengers suggested to go to the Lufthansa clubs when it has been so full in the early evening.
 
flyguy84
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 5:46 pm

cosyr wrote:
DC10LAXJFK wrote:
Here's my question. Will they increase service levels from IAD and will they put in a Polaris lounge?

Sure they will, as soon as the build the new C/D concourse, so it should be open by 2035. I joke, once the first class is removed from all 763's and 772's, they will probably convert the First Class lounge into a Polaris lounge. IAD's clubs are a mess, but I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to have 2 Polaris lounges and 2 United Clubs, instead of 1 First Class and 3 United Clubs, like now. I have seen J passengers suggested to go to the Lufthansa clubs when it has been so full in the early evening.

They are slated to begin work on renovating the clubs at IAD in the second half of this year.
 
CapitalAvGeek
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:45 am

Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 6:22 pm

DC10LAXJFK wrote:
Here's my question. Will they increase service levels from IAD and will they put in a Polaris lounge?

I fly F from BDL to LAX and to HNL and the islands often, and will go through EWR to get ps service (lie flat). Without driving to BOS or NYC, no other connection will guarantee high level of F/J service to LAX, and I'm 30 mins from BDL so not willing to face a 3 hr drive to/from BOS or NYC with the traffic. Wonder how much existing ps service to LAX is from small NE connections vs all O&D?

Also, if I'm going to HNL or the islands off season, IAD only has a Saturday only nonstop, otherwise it's connection through ORD, DEN or IAH. While they're all lie flat, on 772 it's 8 across and DEN is 752 2x2. As a solo traveler, the 2x1x2 is perfect if no 1x2x1 available as with DL and AA. Would be interested if they increase the HNL flight at IAD to daily year round if they move more connecting traffic there.

That's my very individualized view of the impact.

UA has daily HNL service from IAD in the summer, during spring break and around the winter holidays.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3127
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

Re: UA East Coast network changes

Sat May 12, 2018 7:31 pm

PVD-EWR goes all E75/E70 from mostly ERJ and IAD goes to all CR7 from often mixed in 50 seaters.

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