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At IST today an Asiana Airlines A333 (HL7792) got a little close to a Turkish Airlines A321 (TC-JMM), damaging the tail of the aircraft





https://twitter.com/JacdecNew/status/995693283937538050

Speed Tape!

Note to self. In tail vs wing, bet on wing.

Seeing more photos here :
http://aeronauticsonline.com/breaking-asiana-a330-damages-turkish-a321-tail-in-istanbul/

Well at least on Airbus frames, the vertical stabilizer and rudder come as singe assembly, so it can be replaced entirely for TK.

Close up of the tail



Approximate location of collision



https://twitter.com/JacdecNew/status/995700271794749440

Don't know why but just seeing that tail just flopped over to the side like that makes me laugh for some odd reason. Should be just a new vertical stab assembly for the A321 though.

How does something like this happen? Unreal.

That's gonna leave a mark.

And yet no one has dared to ask the million dollar question?

It appears the 333 was on the proper taxi line, 321 holding short or just pushed from gate. Either way TK was there to be clearly seen by OZ crew. Seems another case of taxing pilots not paying proper attention to their wing clearance zone.

The tail is okay, appears to have just fainted.

Antarius wrote:

How does something like this happen? Unreal.

It happens because pilots get complacent and just look straight ahead, forgetting to watch side to side for their wing clearance. It happens WAY to often around the world.

ikramerica wrote:

Speed Tape!

Slightly more involved of a fix. It'll need some bondo too.

check out the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... KyygyiMkPg

is that a write off?

Is it a write off?

From the pictures it looks as if Asiana is taxiing on the yellow line. Could it be that the A321 wasn't properly parked?

readytotaxi wrote:

The tail is okay, appears to have just fainted.

I thought it just needed to be using Viagra...

MileHFL400 wrote:

is that a write off?

Nope

Spacepope wrote:

ikramerica wrote:

Speed Tape!

Slightly more involved of a fix. It'll need some bondo too.

It'll Buff Out.

[*]

Blerg wrote:

Is it a write off?

From the pictures it looks as if Asiana is taxiing on the yellow line. Could it be that the A321 wasn't properly parked?

Looks like the A321 was holding short of the gate waiting to be marshaled in. Just because the A330 is on the line doesn’t give them the right of way. They are still responsible for watching their wings, and avoiding in this case an airplane that was encroaching on the taxiway.

Spacepope wrote:

ikramerica wrote:

Speed Tape!

Slightly more involved of a fix. It'll need some bondo too.

Well yeah. And a can of krylon. But that’s later. I’m just trying to get it into service without having to cancel the next flight...

maybe luck in an unlucky situation: TC-JMM is one of those leased and former Kingfisher frames; so not really own metal.

stylo777 wrote:

maybe luck in an unlucky situation: TC-JMM is one of those leased and former Kingfisher frames; so not really own metal.

Its more tricky in this case, because you have to inform and communicate with your lessor.

Jeez that video is insane! Is that smoke coming from the severed tail or hydraulic fluid that's venting out?

Martijn

Should buff out pretty well

It definitely seems quite careless, as they were very close and taxiing very fast
It is a little difficult to judge wing tip clearance sometimes and most wide bodies are so long you can’t see the wing from the Flight deck

Interesting that the tail didn't break where it meets the fuselage, but a half a meter or so up the tail. It shows me how firmly affixed the tail is to the fuselage.

So what is the smoke spewing from the tail after the accident? Is there a hydraulic hose or mechanism up in that area?

Will the nose gear on the A321 need to be replaced after the lateral stress placed on it? The nose of the aircraft moved damn near six feet from what I can tell.

iahcsr wrote:

Antarius wrote:

How does something like this happen? Unreal.

It happens because pilots get complacent and just look straight ahead, forgetting to watch side to side for their wing clearance. It happens WAY to often around the world.

In many large aircraft, you can't even see the wings from the cockpit - so I fail to "see" your point.

stylo777 wrote:

check out the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... KyygyiMkPg

Reminds me of the scene in the movie Airplane! where their wing knocks over a radio station antenna.

THis is insanity! Why wasn't there a marshaller out by the tail, since the A321 was clearly sitting in the active thru way? Asiana was cruising too, seems way to fast for that congested zone, at this well known over capacity airport.

They sprayed a lot of water on the tail, so they must have suspected the smoke was from something hot, not only hydrualic fluid. The APU was reported damaged, so that may be what’s causing the smoke. It is strange though, since the first impact seems to be with the rudder, then the tail, so the fuselage (where the APU is, right?) should be pretty much undamaged, apart from secondary damage.

As for the nose gear, I find it hard to believe the stress was severe enough to cause damage. They’re designed to handle rough landings, sideways too.

/Fredrik

I actually think the A321 is at fault here seeing that they weren't suposed to be stopping where they stopped. The A330 was taxiing by as it should with or without looking for wing clearance. The A321 definitely shouldn't have stopped where it seems to have done. Like someone already told, a bit difficult to see from the video angle. In any case very unfortunate for both airlines.

A388

NWADTWE16 wrote:

THis is insanity! Why wasn't there a marshaller out by the tail, since the A321 was clearly sitting in the active thru way? Asiana was cruising too, seems way to fast for that congested zone, at this well known over capacity airport.

Doesn't seem that fast to me, then again, I cannot draw conclusive information from a 17 sec video recorded off a screen which seems to be less than 10 frames per second. As always, lets wait and see what the official reports say.

yeah good point, just my 2 cents, and that's all it is worth LOL

stylo777 wrote:

check out the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... KyygyiMkPg

At least the A321 didn't rotate 90 degrees like the CRJ did after getting hit by an A380.

The A321 appears to be waiting either for an marchall or a bridge operator to turn on the guidence system. In that case the A321 has gone to far into the stand, it should be holding on the taxiway before turning into the stand.

Ouch! I wonder how much damage the A330 wing got.

The way that wing cut that makes me think it should consider a career in surgery if this whole plane thing doesn't work out for it.

I was wondering: from the video the "wing vs tail" collision is clear. However, in the cockpit of the A321, how would the flight crew know what happened? The would have felt the unbelievable side swipe, probably followed by bells and wissles... And then what??

Winterapfel wrote:

I was wondering: from the video the "wing vs tail" collision is clear. However, in the cockpit of the A321, how would the flight crew know what happened? The would have felt the unbelievable side swipe, probably followed by bells and wissles... And then what??

I assume you'd get indications of systems like the yaw damper failing. Other than that, I guess either ground crew, if connected, or air traffic control, if they happen to be looking in that direction, would say something.

Would have been ironic if it was a shamu plane of WN, since orca dorsal fins seem to flop like that in captivity

I would be curious what was going on in the cockpit of the A330 that distracted both pilots to the point they did not notice the A321 had stopped. It does happen!

Maybe a revised taxi clearance. Perhaps a new runway or new load numbers ... either of which requires new performance calculations.

Basefly wrote:

The A321 appears to be waiting either for an marchall or a bridge operator to turn on the guidence system. In that case the A321 has gone to far into the stand, it should be holding on the taxiway before turning into the stand.

A388 wrote:

I actually think the A321 is at fault here seeing that they weren't suposed to be stopping where they stopped. The A330 was taxiing by as it should with or without looking for wing clearance. The A321 definitely shouldn't have stopped where it seems to have done.

There are a lot of very acceptable reasons for stopping where the A321 did. The most likely would be the Gate Guidance System stopped working. It happens from time to time. Procedure is to stop. Then wait for a marshaller to take over. Or it could be the sterile gate area was compromised. The marshaller then stops the aircraft, (either with the wands or with the GGS) then allows the aircraft to continue when the way is clear.

As a 330 pilot I can state for information that both in the A330-200 and A330-300 the respective wingtips are clearly visible from each pilot’s side of the flightdeck.

These days it seems the 321 is getting more attention than the 330. Perhaps this is a case of sibling rivalry where the "older" child acts out badly?

Another reason that ISTANBUL needs another airport. Now I get that this could happen anywhere, but IST is just way too congested. Every possible space is now a parking stand or gate. There is little room for error when taxiing. There is also so much congestion that pilots and ground crews need to keep up the pace. It can take 10-20 minutes to get pushback clearance. Do we know if the A321 stopped short or was pushing back?

MON wrote:

As a 330 pilot I can state for information that both in the A330-200 and A330-300 the respective wingtips are clearly visible from each pilot’s side of the flightdeck.

If they didn’t notice the A321 was holding short, would you expect the first officer to be actually watching the wing or would they be busy with other activities?

A388 wrote:

I actually think the A321 is at fault here seeing that they weren't suposed to be stopping where they stopped. The A330 was taxiing by as it should with or without looking for wing clearance. The A321 definitely shouldn't have stopped where it seems to have done. Like someone already told, a bit difficult to see from the video angle. In any case very unfortunate for both airlines.

A388

If the 321 doesn't believe it can safely proceed, it should stop. It is then the responsibility of other aircraft to not hit it. If the 330 crew was unsure of their wingtip clearance, they should have stopped as well and either waited for the 321 to move or requested wingwalkers to make sure (more likely the first option).

Mir wrote:

A388 wrote:

I actually think the A321 is at fault here seeing that they weren't suposed to be stopping where they stopped. The A330 was taxiing by as it should with or without looking for wing clearance. The A321 definitely shouldn't have stopped where it seems to have done. Like someone already told, a bit difficult to see from the video angle. In any case very unfortunate for both airlines.

A388

If the 321 doesn't believe it can safely proceed, it should stop. It is then the responsibility of other aircraft to not hit it. If the 330 crew was unsure of their wingtip clearance, they should have stopped as well and either waited for the 321 to move or requested wingwalkers to make sure (more likely the first option).

time for a sensors at the wingtip. can't believe it is so difficult and expensive to do so if we have numbers of cams installed on the tail; front wheels etc.

Newbiepilot wrote:

MON wrote:

As a 330 pilot I can state for information that both in the A330-200 and A330-300 the respective wingtips are clearly visible from each pilot’s side of the flightdeck.

If they didn’t notice the A321 was holding short, would you expect the first officer to be actually watching the wing or would they be busy with other activities?

Think that was more so in response to an earlier post where somebody made the following claim:

barney captain wrote:

iahcsr wrote:

Antarius wrote:

How does something like this happen? Unreal.

It happens because pilots get complacent and just look straight ahead, forgetting to watch side to side for their wing clearance. It happens WAY to often around the world.

In many large aircraft, you can't even see the wings from the cockpit - so I fail to "see" your point.

hongkongflyer wrote:

Mir wrote:

A388 wrote:

I actually think the A321 is at fault here seeing that they weren't suposed to be stopping where they stopped. The A330 was taxiing by as it should with or without looking for wing clearance. The A321 definitely shouldn't have stopped where it seems to have done. Like someone already told, a bit difficult to see from the video angle. In any case very unfortunate for both airlines.

A388

If the 321 doesn't believe it can safely proceed, it should stop. It is then the responsibility of other aircraft to not hit it. If the 330 crew was unsure of their wingtip clearance, they should have stopped as well and either waited for the 321 to move or requested wingwalkers to make sure (more likely the first option).

time for a sensors at the wingtip. can't believe it is so difficult and expensive to do so if we have numbers of cams installed on the tail; front wheels etc.

When parts need to be certified, it's going to be expensive. I think the question then becomes if the cost for doing it is justified.