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8herveg
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Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 6:52 am

I remember reading on here that there are about 30 airlines on the waiting list to operate at Heathrow.

Anyone know what those airlines may be?
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 9:45 am

This article from four years ago mentions airlines from North America, South America and Asia.

I think Aero Mexico and Avianca have started since then as have Capital Airlines and Hainan.
 
rbrunner
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 11:06 am

Where is the article?
 
8herveg
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 12:38 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
This article from four years ago mentions airlines from North America, South America and Asia.

I think Aero Mexico and Avianca have started since then as have Capital Airlines and Hainan.


I can't imagine what other North American airlines could or would want to operate into LHR? Either because they're primarily short-haul/domestic airlines and therefore do not have the aircraft, or because they wouldn't be able to afford the slots at LHR (if they got them!)
 
User001
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 12:44 pm

JetBlue May want to be at LHR if/when TATL operations start (Although LGW/STN is more likely at this time).
 
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c933103
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 12:55 pm

Probably numerous regional Chinese airlines
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 12:55 pm

User001 wrote:

JetBlue May want to be at LHR if/when TATL operations start (Although LGW/STN is more likely at this time).


Unless B6 is getting widebodies, I don't see them "wasting" LHR slots on 321's TATL.
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Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
OlympicATH
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 1:23 pm

8herveg wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
This article from four years ago mentions airlines from North America, South America and Asia.

I think Aero Mexico and Avianca have started since then as have Capital Airlines and Hainan.


I can't imagine what other North American airlines could or would want to operate into LHR? Either because they're primarily short-haul/domestic airlines and therefore do not have the aircraft, or because they wouldn't be able to afford the slots at LHR (if they got them!)


Westjet?
 
evank516
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 1:42 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
User001 wrote:

JetBlue May want to be at LHR if/when TATL operations start (Although LGW/STN is more likely at this time).


Unless B6 is getting widebodies, I don't see them "wasting" LHR slots on 321's TATL.


Their MINT product is a pretty big moneymaker so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Offering a premium cabin like that to LHR would most likely make them some decent money widebody or not.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 1:57 pm

c933103 wrote:
Probably numerous regional Chinese airlines


Its interesting how easily (at least apparently....) many Chinese carriers have gotten into Heathrow, lots of action on that front.

It makes me wonder who's selling out/leaving when large carriers are able to get slots if they want them.
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NickolayAv
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 2:04 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
User001 wrote:

JetBlue May want to be at LHR if/when TATL operations start (Although LGW/STN is more likely at this time).


Unless B6 is getting widebodies, I don't see them "wasting" LHR slots on 321's TATL.

How is it any different than the LHR slots AC and WestJet use on narrowbodys?
I think the 321 will be the plane they use into LHR.
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8herveg
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 2:07 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Probably numerous regional Chinese airlines


Its interesting how easily (at least apparently....) many Chinese carriers have gotten into Heathrow, lots of action on that front.

It makes me wonder who's selling out/leaving when large carriers are able to get slots if they want them.


If you look at the schedules, most of these new flights by the Chinese regional carriers are only operating 2-3 times a week and leaving LHR at night when I believe there are more slots available
 
Dominion301
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 2:08 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
8herveg wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
This article from four years ago mentions airlines from North America, South America and Asia.

I think Aero Mexico and Avianca have started since then as have Capital Airlines and Hainan.


I can't imagine what other North American airlines could or would want to operate into LHR? Either because they're primarily short-haul/domestic airlines and therefore do not have the aircraft, or because they wouldn't be able to afford the slots at LHR (if they got them!)


Westjet?


Canadi>n, err I mean WestJet with their full J 789s on the way would probably love to be at LHR. The problem is, where are you going to find about 8 daily slots as no doubt WS would want to serve every major Canadian city?
 
ahj2000
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 2:10 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
8herveg wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
This article from four years ago mentions airlines from North America, South America and Asia.

I think Aero Mexico and Avianca have started since then as have Capital Airlines and Hainan.


I can't imagine what other North American airlines could or would want to operate into LHR? Either because they're primarily short-haul/domestic airlines and therefore do not have the aircraft, or because they wouldn't be able to afford the slots at LHR (if they got them!)


Westjet?

Makes sense. With the new 787, they want to be more like AC than Air Transat, so Heathrow will help them compete for business travelers.
For South America, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Spanish-speaking side of LA wants to add a flight to LIM or SCL. Other possibilities are O6 or AR.
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OA940
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 2:12 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
User001 wrote:

JetBlue May want to be at LHR if/when TATL operations start (Although LGW/STN is more likely at this time).


Unless B6 is getting widebodies, I don't see them "wasting" LHR slots on 321's TATL.

How is it any different than the LHR slots AC and WestJet use on narrowbodys?
I think the 321 will be the plane they use into LHR.


Well it's 10 times more likely they'll fly to LGW instead.
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8herveg
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 3:10 pm

I've created a list of airlines which MAY be interested. This is a mixture of those which have no service to LON at all and those which may already operate out of LGW, STN and LTN and may wish to move across. Thoughts?

Air Baltic
Air Corsica
Air Europa
Air Italy
Air Madagascar
Air Moldova
Air Namibia
Aurigny
Belavia
Cabo Verde Airlines
Camair-Co
China Airlines
Georgian Airways
Iraqi Airways
LATAM Chile
MIAT Mongolian Airlines
Montenegro Airlines
Nordica
Rossiya
Rwandair
S7 Airlines
Somon Air
Surinam Airways
Ukraine International Airlines
Ural Airlines
UTair Aviation
Xiamen Airlines
 
TC957
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 3:24 pm

I would think one of the Turkish carriers like Pegasus would love access to LHR to give TK a run for their money.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 3:26 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Probably numerous regional Chinese airlines


Its interesting how easily (at least apparently....) many Chinese carriers have gotten into Heathrow, lots of action on that front.

It makes me wonder who's selling out/leaving when large carriers are able to get slots if they want them.

This came about after the UK government signed a deal with China to double flights.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-a ... al-britain
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RCS763AV
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 3:59 pm

Avianca Brazil officials have publically stated they want to start London as a destination in Europe. As we know Avianca Holdings took long to start flying to London because they couldn't get LHR slots, so I would imagine Synergy directors will want the same for Avianca Brazil.

http://www.aeroin.net/avianca-brasil-mira-londres-mexico-2018/

(portuguese only)
 
Arion640
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Easyjet probably aren't on a waiting list of sorts but have stated they will acesss Heathrow when the new runway arrives.
 
8herveg
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 4:15 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Easyjet probably aren't on a waiting list of sorts but have stated they will acesss Heathrow when the new runway arrives.


Wouldn't the landing slots be too expensive for EasyJet's business model?
 
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c933103
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 4:22 pm

8herveg wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Easyjet probably aren't on a waiting list of sorts but have stated they will acesss Heathrow when the new runway arrives.


Wouldn't the landing slots be too expensive for EasyJet's business model?

It will probably depend on what model will they use to distribute those new landing slots and probably some slots will be cheaper than others at least initially. They could also sell those slots up if the slot situation tightened back
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BlueTrue
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 4:30 pm

Probably not as many as Lhr would like us believe. It's all part of the propaganda being fought out over the 3rd runway. Remember that many on here obsess over having every route operating out of Lhr, they also lose sight of the fact that it suits the travel establishment to make sure only Lhr has the long- haul so they can keep fares high for us to pay. Look at how quickly slots can be found for most long haul that starts from Lgw. They can usually move over in months. And what percentage of Lhr pax are those high fare paying business travellers. 100% judging by some comments.
 
LGAviation
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 4:36 pm

8herveg wrote:
I've created a list of airlines which MAY be interested. This is a mixture of those which have no service to LON at all and those which may already operate out of LGW, STN and LTN and may wish to move across. Thoughts?

Air Baltic

Yes, I could see that happening


Air Corsica

Not really

Air Europa

Maybe MAD and cooperate with VA at LHR but then IAG would do everything to keep them out of that market

Air Italy

Given their strategy LHR should be a must-add

Air Madagascar

not really, leisure only

Air Moldova

not really, leisure only

Air Namibia

SW are struggling a lot at the moment and since it's mostly leisure they should choose LGW if they should start longhaul outside of Germany which I don't see happening any time soon

Aurigny

know too little

Belavia

too small network, not enough business ties unless the government wants to burn money

Cabo Verde Airlines

leisure-only certainly not

Camair-Co

Gatwick not LHR

China Airlines

If they overcome all the legal issues, yes a candidate

Georgian Airways

not really, VFR dominant and LHR might be overkill

Iraqi Airways

not really

LATAM Chile

yes, if they want to serve LON they'll go to LHR especially if they develop a better relationship with BA

MIAT Mongolian Airlines

not really

Montenegro Airlines

not really

Nordica

fits their model but might be overkill

Rossiya

fits their model but might be overkill

Rwandair

I think we will see Rwandair at LHR if they continue to develop their network at KGL or at the new airport

S7 Airlines

could work if relations between S7 and BA improve and if Russia-UK relations thaw

Somon Air

not really

Surinam Airways

not really

Ukraine International Airlines

maybe in the distant future

Ural Airlines

not really

UTair Aviation

not really


Xiamen Airlines

it's a Chinese overseas carrier so yes if they get the chance
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 4:36 pm

evank516 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
User001 wrote:

JetBlue May want to be at LHR if/when TATL operations start (Although LGW/STN is more likely at this time).


Unless B6 is getting widebodies, I don't see them "wasting" LHR slots on 321's TATL.


Their MINT product is a pretty big moneymaker so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Offering a premium cabin like that to LHR would most likely make them some decent money widebody or not.


OK, the premium product is there with MINT, now...how do you get enough slots at LHR to offer competitive schedules ex-BOS/JFK? If they could wrangle a slot or two at LHR or 6/7 slots at LGW or STN, which would be the opportunity to make a real impact?
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
evank516
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 5:20 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
evank516 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

Unless B6 is getting widebodies, I don't see them "wasting" LHR slots on 321's TATL.


Their MINT product is a pretty big moneymaker so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Offering a premium cabin like that to LHR would most likely make them some decent money widebody or not.


OK, the premium product is there with MINT, now...how do you get enough slots at LHR to offer competitive schedules ex-BOS/JFK? If they could wrangle a slot or two at LHR or 6/7 slots at LGW or STN, which would be the opportunity to make a real impact?


Read what you said. My reply to you was not based on how many slots they could get at LHR, I was simply making the argument that not having a widebody does not mean they would be "wasting" slots at LHR. No one was talking about slots.

However, we don't really know what they would do, and we don't even know that London will be their first destination across the pond either.
 
Bald1983
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 8:04 pm

8herveg wrote:
I remember reading on here that there are about 30 airlines on the waiting list to operate at Heathrow.

Anyone know what those airlines may be?


Not sure why Gatwick is considered inferior. Heathrow is closer but London is about thirty minutes away form Gatwick.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 8:42 pm

c933103 wrote:
8herveg wrote:
Wouldn't the landing slots be too expensive for EasyJet's business model?

It will probably depend on what model will they use to distribute those new landing slots and probably some slots will be cheaper than others at least initially. They could also sell those slots up if the slot situation tightened back


Slots at all controlled UK airports are issued in the manner prescribed by EU directive* that in short means that after grandfathered slots are re-issued, new, surrendered, and forfeited slots are pooled twice yearly and made available to airlines, and of these pools new-entrant airlines are given priority access to half of total number at no cost.

New-entrant airlines are defined as those that, at the controlled airport on a particular day upon allocation, would hold fewer than five slots in total on that day or, for an intra-EU route with less than three competitors, hold fewer than five slots for that route on that day. An airline holding more than 5% of the total slots available on the day in question at a particular airport, or more than 4% of the total slots available on the day in question in an airport system of which that airport forms part, is not considered as a new entrant at that airport.

The massive sums of money you see mentioned in connection to LHR slots are sums airlines are paying other airlines on what's known as the "secondary market", not official prices.

Of course, the secondary market is pretty much the only way for a new airline to get into LHR at the moment - in all of 2016, for example, only 22 new and recycled slots were made available, against 224 traded secondarily.

If you're interested, ACL maintain a list of completed slot trades for all the airports they manage worldwide: https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-trades/

* = specifically, Council of the European Economic Community Regulation No 95/93 of 18 January 1993 on Common Rules for the Allocation of Slots at Community Airports
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 8:44 pm

EasyJet want to turn T4 into a major base. They are likely to be one of the major beneficiaries of an expanded LHR.
 
Joost
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 9:44 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
User001 wrote:
Unless B6 is getting widebodies, I don't see them "wasting" LHR slots on 321's TATL.

How is it any different than the LHR slots AC and WestJet use on narrowbodys?
I think the 321 will be the plane they use into LHR.


AC already had these slots for ages, long before LHR was full. For AC, their YYT/YHZ flights look to be profitable and are probably also the cheapest way to keep the slot as it's just a short hop on a fuel efficient 737MAX8.

But that's different from spending $35M on a slot pair for starting a new route. (And AC apparently prefers keeping the slot, than cashing for it).

8herveg wrote:
Surinam Airways


Extremely unlikely. Surinam is a country with only under 600,000 inhabitants. Another 350,000 Surinamese people live in the Netherlands and there are strong VFR ties between both countries. (Especially is migration started from 1975, so not so long ago). This is the reason Surinam Airways flies to AMS. There is no sensible business case at all for any other European destination for SLM.
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 9:45 pm

Is Heathrow currently served by any low cost carriers? A-side from Easyjet making their interest in serving an expanded Heathrow known, I can't think of any low cost carriers currently operating to Heathrow off the top of my head (apologies of course if I'm totally wrong)

Ben
 
danj555
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Thu May 17, 2018 9:49 pm

evank516 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
User001 wrote:

JetBlue May want to be at LHR if/when TATL operations start (Although LGW/STN is more likely at this time).


Unless B6 is getting widebodies, I don't see them "wasting" LHR slots on 321's TATL.


Their MINT product is a pretty big moneymaker so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Offering a premium cabin like that to LHR would most likely make them some decent money widebody or not.



He means wasting it from the perspective of LHR management. Their pax would decrease if they gave the slot to JetBlue a321 vs west jet 787. LHR incentivises airlines to fly bigger metal.
 
Samrnpage
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Fri May 18, 2018 2:15 am

CrawleyBen wrote:
Is Heathrow currently served by any low cost carriers? A-side from Easyjet making their interest in serving an expanded Heathrow known, I can't think of any low cost carriers currently operating to Heathrow off the top of my head (apologies of course if I'm totally wrong)

Ben


British airways Y class...... :duck:

In seriousness, Flybe I guess if you count them as low cost?
 
Melb94
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Fri May 18, 2018 3:24 am

Any chance of Air Zimbabwe returning to the London market with the rumored 777 aircraft?
 
CrawleyBen
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Fri May 18, 2018 7:46 am

Melb94 wrote:
Any chance of Air Zimbabwe returning to the London market with the rumored 777 aircraft?


Would hazard a guess that Air Zimbabwe would return to Gatwick again as opposed to trying to get in to Heathrow? Could they even afford Heathrow slots bearing mind the price some of these slots are believed to sell for?

Ben
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Sat May 19, 2018 5:37 am

danj555 wrote:
LHR incentivises airlines to fly bigger metal.

...how?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Andy33
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Sat May 19, 2018 6:15 am

LAX772LR wrote:
danj555 wrote:
LHR incentivises airlines to fly bigger metal.

...how?

Some of the fees are per aircraft, and don't have different scales for different size aircraft, or only two scales - one for widebodies and one for narrowbodies. As a result the cost per passenger is higher on a small aircraft than a large one. However the bulk of the fees are charged per passenger, as per this extremely lengthy document:
https://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Co ... e-2018.pdf
It is public policy in the UK to discourage smaller aircraft at LHR, and I'm sure that someone trying to apply for a brand new or reclaimed slot directly from the slot coordinators would find other applicants given preference if the proposed new service involved planes in the 100 seat or less range. However where airlines already have grandfathered slots there's nothing to stop them using small planes, KLM currently do on a couple of their flights to AMS, and BMI did up to the 2012 IAG takeover (a proportion of flights were worked by their regional fleet's E135 and E145 planes)
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Sat May 19, 2018 7:38 am

Do we know who is using SAA's 2nd slots, since they suspended the 2nd daily JNB-LHR in April?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Sat May 19, 2018 3:42 pm

CrawleyBen wrote:
Is Heathrow currently served by any low cost carriers? A-side from Easyjet making their interest in serving an expanded Heathrow known, I can't think of any low cost carriers currently operating to Heathrow off the top of my head (apologies of course if I'm totally wrong)

Ben


Eurowings flies from Heathrow to a good number of German destinations, however the thing is the Lufthansa group holds more slots at Heathrow than their leisure airlines need. To not lose those slots they've put Eurowings on them.

Vueling also has a few flights from Heathrow, not much. They can do this because they're part of IAG.
 
trex8
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Re: Which airlines are on the waiting list to operate into Heathrow?

Sat May 19, 2018 7:20 pm

I'm pretty sure I saw a report saying CI want to eventually move their London flight from LGW back to LHR like it was a few years ago before they cancelled it.

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