User avatar
psa1011
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:37 pm

UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 5:55 am

Indeed this has been discussed, but can anyone remind me why United never used 767's on flights to or within Asia? I think it was a Union issue but I didn't know which.

Thanks.
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2647
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 5:55 am

SFO-Asia is really pushing the 767 so UA just sent 747/777s there since they had sufficient range and passenger capacity.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 6:03 am

IIRC, Air Mike/CO did operate some 767-400s between GUM and NRT and also NGO and HNL at one time or another.

But I suspect that's not what you meant. Did you mean to/from the NRT gateway?

Also, what would the "Union issue" be?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4068
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 6:05 am

A 767 to certain thinner routes to Asia would have been great if she had the legs. Enter the 788!

I guess UA could have considered more HNL to points in Asia but then would mainland passengers be happy with a connection midway vs West Coast?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1725
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 6:32 am

I don't think UA ever had much of a reason to want to send them across the Pacific. I suppose they could have tried to send them on some of the shorter routes like SEA-NRT, SFO-NRT, SFO-SEL/ICN, but UA always seemed to have enough 747s, DC10s, and 777s to go around.

DL doesn't, which is partly why they're using 767s across the Pacific from SEA. On that note, DL did run into pilot union issues with the 777 crew rests, which explains why DL ultimately took delivery of fewer 777s than they had on order. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
User avatar
psa1011
Topic Author
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:37 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 6:53 am

It seems like a 767 would have been useful for some kind of connection, since United has been flying to Asia since the mid-1980's. I realize that they had sufficient numbers of 747's & 777's, however it's odd to me that not one route in the pre-787 era would have been flown by the 767 (e.g., SEA-NRT, a RTW leg, HNL-Japan, etc.). I do have some vague recollection of someone on Airliners mentioning a Union rule about this (obviously unlike Delta), but I'm clearly unsure.
 
User avatar
adambrau
Posts: 258
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:44 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 7:11 am

UA did operate a 763 LHR - DEL - HKG and vv in the late 1990's as part of their RTW service, though technically not a Trans-Pacific flight.
Let's keep the skies friendly.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21517
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 7:16 am

ikolkyo wrote:
SFO-Asia is really pushing the 767 so UA just sent 747/777s there since they had sufficient range and passenger capacity.


SFO-NRT is only ~10h westbound and ~8h eastbound. DL used a 763 on SFO-NRT.

If you look at the payload-range for the 763ER (page 50) (http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... ps/767.pdf) you see a range of about 6000nm with full pax and baggage load. SFO-NRT, LAX-NRT, and SEA-NRT are all comfortably under 5,000nm. None of these even come close to an ETOPS 180 limit.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
JustSomeDood
Posts: 377
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:05 am

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 8:05 am

Why fly a 767 on routes to Asia when the major UA hub that is in range for 767 TPAC (SFO), is also the destination where there is robust enough demand for most Asian routes such that larger aircraft would be more profitable?
 
55flyer
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 9:12 am

adambrau wrote:
UA did operate a 763 LHR - DEL - HKG and vv in the late 1990's as part of their RTW service, though technically not a Trans-Pacific flight.


and well before the merger with CO UA did try to compete with Northwest and was flying 767s from NRT to SPN and GUM. I do not recall if they flew from NRT to anywhere else, though, possiblylater it was HNL for a bit?
 
jjb415
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:21 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 1:01 pm

55flyer wrote:
adambrau wrote:
UA did operate a 763 LHR - DEL - HKG and vv in the late 1990's as part of their RTW service, though technically not a Trans-Pacific flight.


and well before the merger with CO UA did try to compete with Northwest and was flying 767s from NRT to SPN and GUM. I do not recall if they flew from NRT to anywhere else, though, possiblylater it was HNL for a bit?


The GUM/SPN operation was with a 747 and from Osaka.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 1:47 pm

I kinda think they also never had reason to need to push the limits of the 763. Even if it could do it, most if not all of UAs TPAC routes from SFO and LAX have always been high traffic routes, unlike some of DLs SEA routes. As such, I don't think they have/had excess capacity issues in using the 744/772/773 and now the 788/789. The only one(s) they may have struggled to fill with a larger aircraft over the years before they had the 788/9 and had to use a 744/777 was/were SFO-OSA and SFO-NGO.
 
ual763
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 1:52 pm

If I remember right, back in the early 90s, back when United had a Seattle 767 pilot base, they did have a few TPAC routes on the 767.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
User avatar
RetiredNWA
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:01 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 2:01 pm

Northwest Airlines *never* operated the 767.

NRT had several 757 5600’s in our “Beach Market” and Intra-Asia routes when the operation was right-sized in the mid 2000’s.
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2647
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 3:36 pm

DocLightning wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
SFO-Asia is really pushing the 767 so UA just sent 747/777s there since they had sufficient range and passenger capacity.


SFO-NRT is only ~10h westbound and ~8h eastbound. DL used a 763 on SFO-NRT.

If you look at the payload-range for the 763ER (page 50) (http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... ps/767.pdf) you see a range of about 6000nm with full pax and baggage load. SFO-NRT, LAX-NRT, and SEA-NRT are all comfortably under 5,000nm. None of these even come close to an ETOPS 180 limit.


You’re talking about 1 route. How about SFO-HKG, SFO-ICN, SFO-PVG? You’re not gonna see a 767 on those kind routes. Too small of capacity is a big one.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2195
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 4:05 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
SFO-Asia is really pushing the 767 so UA just sent 747/777s there since they had sufficient range and passenger capacity.


SFO-NRT is only ~10h westbound and ~8h eastbound. DL used a 763 on SFO-NRT.

If you look at the payload-range for the 763ER (page 50) (http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... ps/767.pdf) you see a range of about 6000nm with full pax and baggage load. SFO-NRT, LAX-NRT, and SEA-NRT are all comfortably under 5,000nm. None of these even come close to an ETOPS 180 limit.


You’re talking about 1 route. How about SFO-HKG, SFO-ICN, SFO-PVG? You’re not gonna see a 767 on those kind routes. Too small of capacity is a big one.


SFO-PVG and HKG are too far for a 767 plus the demand calls for a bigger plane. HKG is a 77W.
 
JustSomeDood
Posts: 377
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:05 am

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 4:32 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

SFO-NRT is only ~10h westbound and ~8h eastbound. DL used a 763 on SFO-NRT.

If you look at the payload-range for the 763ER (page 50) (http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... ps/767.pdf) you see a range of about 6000nm with full pax and baggage load. SFO-NRT, LAX-NRT, and SEA-NRT are all comfortably under 5,000nm. None of these even come close to an ETOPS 180 limit.


You’re talking about 1 route. How about SFO-HKG, SFO-ICN, SFO-PVG? You’re not gonna see a 767 on those kind routes. Too small of capacity is a big one.


SFO-PVG and HKG are too far for a 767 plus the demand calls for a bigger plane. HKG is a 77W.


Currently SFO-PVG is served 2x daily on 787-9s by UA, it's around 350nm further than SEA-PVG, which Delta serves with its 767s. UA's new very premium heavy seatmaps for their Polaris 767s (46J/22W/99Y) would be a good replacement for the 787-9 up front, and should have the range (DL's 767s all have 40+ more seats). Wouldn't be surprising if UA does this move to combat the capacity flood from the Chinese carriers.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23724
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 4:35 pm

Many moons ago, pre BK days UA looked at basing 763s over in Asia for the regional tags, however, pilot contract made it not practical from both pay and training perspective.

ual763 wrote:
If I remember right, back in the early 90s, back when United had a Seattle 767 pilot base, they did have a few TPAC routes on the 767.


UA 767s crews were never regionally qualified for such flying except for subset(I believe IAD or JFK based) that did the LHR-DEL-HKG run briefly.

SEA at one time was a 777 base however, and covered SEA-NRT along with some intra-Asia tags.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
codc10
Posts: 2527
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 4:39 pm

JustSomeDood wrote:
SonomaFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

You’re talking about 1 route. How about SFO-HKG, SFO-ICN, SFO-PVG? You’re not gonna see a 767 on those kind routes. Too small of capacity is a big one.


SFO-PVG and HKG are too far for a 767 plus the demand calls for a bigger plane. HKG is a 77W.


Currently SFO-PVG is served 2x daily on 787-9s by UA, it's around 350nm further than SEA-PVG, which Delta serves with its 767s. UA's new very premium heavy seatmaps for their Polaris 767s (46J/22W/99Y) would be a good replacement for the 787-9 up front, and should have the range (DL's 767s all have 40+ more seats). Wouldn't be surprising if UA does this move to combat the capacity flood from the Chinese carriers.


767s aren't going TPAC for UA. Only a handful of 763 will get this new configuration and they'll be primarily EWR/IAD/ORD to LHR, ZRH, GVA, etc.
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2647
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: UA 767's and transpac

Fri May 18, 2018 4:39 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

SFO-NRT is only ~10h westbound and ~8h eastbound. DL used a 763 on SFO-NRT.

If you look at the payload-range for the 763ER (page 50) (http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... ps/767.pdf) you see a range of about 6000nm with full pax and baggage load. SFO-NRT, LAX-NRT, and SEA-NRT are all comfortably under 5,000nm. None of these even come close to an ETOPS 180 limit.


You’re talking about 1 route. How about SFO-HKG, SFO-ICN, SFO-PVG? You’re not gonna see a 767 on those kind routes. Too small of capacity is a big one.


SFO-PVG and HKG are too far for a 767 plus the demand calls for a bigger plane. HKG is a 77W.


I’m aware of this, that’s why I said those routes.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos