Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
32andBelow wrote:Mammoth must be triggered. Crazy the e175 can’t land there.
32andBelow wrote:I mean airlines fly cat 1 in Alaska all day long. Seems like a weak reason.
BoeingGuy wrote:32andBelow wrote:I mean airlines fly cat 1 in Alaska all day long. Seems like a weak reason.
Not at all. Their 737s are Cat 3. They fly in Alaska.
washingtonflyer wrote:Surprised MMH-SAN is not doing well. Lots of ski maniacs in SAN looking for the next powder fix.
PlanesNTrains wrote:washingtonflyer wrote:Surprised MMH-SAN is not doing well. Lots of ski maniacs in SAN looking for the next powder fix.
They didn’t say it was poorly performing. They said it was an aircraft availability issue. I’m guessing as they are pulling down the Q’s, they need to reduce lines and a place like MMH is less important to the network than core routes in the PNW.
PlanesNTrains wrote:Well, the reasoning for all of them make sense. At least there's that.
452QX wrote:All of our E175s are currently cat 1 awaiting further upgrades
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:I always thought MMH would do really well from so cal, but it seemed to struggle and was never a run away hit. The demand seemed too day of week or inconsistent for Horizon/alaska type scheduling. Seasonally it did do really well and some days, but others it was pretty empty too often.
JetsuiteX can maybe fill the void and add SAN. They already do Burbank to Mammoth. Their type of schedule might be better they can time the flights when the most people want to go and time them better. MMH has be seasonal to make money
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:I always thought MMH would do really well from so cal, but it seemed to struggle and was never a run away hit. The demand seemed too day of week or inconsistent for Horizon/alaska type scheduling. Seasonally it did do really well and some days, but others it was pretty empty too often.
JetsuiteX can maybe fill the void and add SAN. They already do Burbank to Mammoth. Their type of schedule might be better they can time the flights when the most people want to go and time them better. MMH has be seasonal to make money
PlanesNTrains wrote:washingtonflyer wrote:Surprised MMH-SAN is not doing well. Lots of ski maniacs in SAN looking for the next powder fix.
They didn’t say it was poorly performing. They said it was an aircraft availability issue. I’m guessing as they are pulling down the Q’s, they need to reduce lines and a place like MMH is less important to the network than core routes in the PNW.
n7371f wrote:Airlines don't leave routes that print $.PlanesNTrains wrote:washingtonflyer wrote:Surprised MMH-SAN is not doing well. Lots of ski maniacs in SAN looking for the next powder fix.
They didn’t say it was poorly performing. They said it was an aircraft availability issue. I’m guessing as they are pulling down the Q’s, they need to reduce lines and a place like MMH is less important to the network than core routes in the PNW.
NewtonPDX wrote:jAwaiting to hear from the government's approval for PAE.
n7371f wrote:Airlines don't leave routes that print $.PlanesNTrains wrote:washingtonflyer wrote:Surprised MMH-SAN is not doing well. Lots of ski maniacs in SAN looking for the next powder fix.
They didn’t say it was poorly performing. They said it was an aircraft availability issue. I’m guessing as they are pulling down the Q’s, they need to reduce lines and a place like MMH is less important to the network than core routes in the PNW.
Midwestindy wrote:“Our goal is to have a strong and sustainable Horizon Air. As a CPA carrier, we can bring more value to Air Group by adapting to match the needs of our guests and our largest customer, Alaska Airlines,” said Gary Beck, Horizon president and CEO.
NameOmitted wrote:Midwestindy wrote:“Our goal is to have a strong and sustainable Horizon Air. As a CPA carrier, we can bring more value to Air Group by adapting to match the needs of our guests and our largest customer, Alaska Airlines,” said Gary Beck, Horizon president and CEO.
The distinction between "guests" and their actual customers is an interesting one. Is this the common terminology for internal documents?
lhpdx wrote:Is it me or does it appear that PDX hub days are slowly diminishing for AS...A lot of routes have been dropped as of late...............Sooner or later most regional flights out of Portland will require a connection via Seattle.....
F9Animal wrote:As for SAN to MMH, I wonder if it would have worked seasonally?
wnflyguy wrote:Sad to see MMH go away! Definitely more of a seasonal market. The airport leaders had be reviewing expanding the Runaway. Last year there was a study also done about adding a new airline terminal area. AS had the majority of the market share this will definitely put everything on hold!
Flyguy
SANFan wrote:F9Animal wrote:As for SAN to MMH, I wonder if it would have worked seasonally?
The service has run for the last few years from mid-December until about mid-April. LA-MMH ran year-round.wnflyguy wrote:Sad to see MMH go away! Definitely more of a seasonal market. The airport leaders had be reviewing expanding the Runaway. Last year there was a study also done about adding a new airline terminal area. AS had the majority of the market share this will definitely put everything on hold!
Flyguy
If I remember correctly, UAex used to fly MMH-SNA and MMH-SAN; I believe that was also subsidized service. When it ended, AS (took over the subsidy) and started flying the route. The AAG a/c was larger than that used by UAx which I'm sure was a problem as well.
Maybe someone else will take over the route again. I think there's definitely a seasonal market but how big it is might be the question. Someone up-thread mentioned that MMH is a 5-hour drive from LA which would make SAN-MMH at least a 7-8 hour haul by surface transportation! That's pretty unattractive.
Who knows, Maybe Ted Vallas will take a chance and try flying the route (from SAN) with CP Air!
bb
SANFan wrote:lhpdx wrote:Is it me or does it appear that PDX hub days are slowly diminishing for AS...A lot of routes have been dropped as of late...............Sooner or later most regional flights out of Portland will require a connection via Seattle.....
I have to agree. It is beginning to look like a trend in that direction, isn't it?. Maybe having 2 hubs so close together in the seasonal and weather-challenged PNW is being re-thought now that AAG now has lots of options in mid and southern CA to consider as replacements for the PDX hub?
RE: MMH service to SoCal. AFAIK, the routes were subsidized by the Mammoth Lakes Tourist Board (or some such organization) and I'm thinking the subsidies stopped?
Also, from a SAN perspective, it appears that MMH was to be the only remaining Q route from here. All other Q routes to SAN, MRY, STS and FAT, have all converted to EMJs so AAG might have also realized that due to fleet simplification, it was easier to just dump the single route requiring a Q.
For the SAN skiers, we still (I hope) have Steamboat (HDN) served by AAG during ski season. (Last time I checked!) Although I'm sure this is also a subsidized route so we'll see what happens there.
bb
32andBelow wrote:SANFan wrote:Someone up-thread mentioned that MMH is a 5-hour drive from LA which would make SAN-MMH at least a 7-8 hour haul by surface transportation! That's pretty unattractive.
Who knows, Maybe Ted Vallas will take a chance and try flying the route (from SAN) with CP Air!
bb
6.5 hours according to google. So you could probably beat that. It’s not like they have to drive north to LA first. It’s east of both cities.
Airnerd wrote:SANFan wrote:lhpdx wrote:Is it me or does it appear that PDX hub days are slowly diminishing for AS...A lot of routes have been dropped as of late...............Sooner or later most regional flights out of Portland will require a connection via Seattle.....
I have to agree. It is beginning to look like a trend in that direction, isn't it?. Maybe having 2 hubs so close together in the seasonal and weather-challenged PNW is being re-thought now that AAG now has lots of options in mid and southern CA to consider as replacements for the PDX hub?
RE: MMH service to SoCal. AFAIK, the routes were subsidized by the Mammoth Lakes Tourist Board (or some such organization) and I'm thinking the subsidies stopped?
Also, from a SAN perspective, it appears that MMH was to be the only remaining Q route from here. All other Q routes to SAN, MRY, STS and FAT, have all converted to EMJs so AAG might have also realized that due to fleet simplification, it was easier to just dump the single route requiring a Q.
For the SAN skiers, we still (I hope) have Steamboat (HDN) served by AAG during ski season. (Last time I checked!) Although I'm sure this is also a subsidized route so we'll see what happens there.
bb
I don't really see it as all bad for PDX. Yes, we lose two very weak routes (PSC and BLI), but we gain frequency on strong routes (GEG and BOI). Actually, this move has the potential to increase AS/QX passenger numbers through PDX. I think we have to assume the weakest AS destinations will generally not see service from PDX in the future. Because of much larger populations in SEA, LAX and SFO, those airports are more likely to be able to sustain flights to the smaller, weaker markets.
lhpdx wrote:Is it me or does it appear that PDX hub days are slowly diminishing for AS...A lot of routes have been dropped as of late...............Sooner or later most regional flights out of Portland will require a connection via Seattle.....
dc10lover wrote:Plus Seattle - Lewiston, Idaho will be cancelled.
BigGSFO wrote:lhpdx wrote:Is it me or does it appear that PDX hub days are slowly diminishing for AS...A lot of routes have been dropped as of late...............Sooner or later most regional flights out of Portland will require a connection via Seattle.....
Naw, I doubt it. The PDX flights were all single dailies (if that) so it's not a sign of a PDX drawdown. I think once we see a rationalization of the fleets with VX, that ultimately, we will see AS focus on it's strengths - which is the Pacific Northwest. PDX stands to grow.
wnflyguy wrote:Sad to see MMH go away! Definitely more of a seasonal market. The airport leaders had be reviewing expanding the Runaway. Last year there was a study also done about adding a new airline terminal area.
AS had the majority of the market share this will definitely put everything on hold!
Flyguy
SANFan wrote:32andBelow wrote:SANFan wrote:Someone up-thread mentioned that MMH is a 5-hour drive from LA which would make SAN-MMH at least a 7-8 hour haul by surface transportation! That's pretty unattractive.
Who knows, Maybe Ted Vallas will take a chance and try flying the route (from SAN) with CP Air!
bb
6.5 hours according to google. So you could probably beat that. It’s not like they have to drive north to LA first. It’s east of both cities.
Okay, I'll buy 7 hours by going up I-15 from SAN to Hesperia and picking US 395. And assuming good weather! And still plenty of traffic going up through Riverside. Whatever it actually turns out to be (depending on the route taken) that's still a long drive, especially if the r/t drive is part of a 'quick' weekend ski getaway!
BTW, the cut flights still appear on AS's online skeds. I Assume they will go away (and appear on tomorrow's OAG thread) with Sunday's OAG load by AS.
bb
washingtonflyer wrote:(RE: MMH service cuts) I wonder if a larger bird was run by QX not really because that was the only thing that QX had in terms of fleet, but instead to accommodate all those pieces of ski baggage. Cant imagine an E-120 was very accommodating of 72 inch long skis.
SANFan wrote:That might very well have been a factor. It seems that the entire winter operation at MMH was full of issues and challenges and even if the routes were subsidized by MMH, and especially considering the need to keep the Q in service at 2 cities, LAX and SAN, that otherwise didn't need it anymore, AAG made a sensible decision to cut MMH from the route map.
ucdtim17 wrote:So will the Q400 be gone entirely from California by fall? I believe SEA-STS and SMF-PDX are still slated to remain Q400 as of this point. Anything else?
tphuang wrote:AAG's fall schedule will be interesting to see. Domestic carriers had the largest average fare drop in April in recent times and carriers all had lower LFs (AAG had the largest drop again). Would not be surprised to see more cuts.
washingtonflyer wrote:SANFan wrote:Okay, I'll buy 7 hours by going up I-15 from SAN to Hesperia and picking US 395. And assuming good weather! And still plenty of traffic going up through Riverside. Whatever it actually turns out to be (depending on the route taken) that's still a long drive, especially if the r/t drive is part of a 'quick' weekend ski getaway!
BTW, the cut flights still appear on AS's online skeds. I Assume they will go away (and appear on tomorrow's OAG thread) with Sunday's OAG load by AS.
bb
Wonder if a larger bird was run by QX not really because that was the only thing that QX had in terms of fleet, but instead to accommodate all those pieces of ski baggage. Cant imagine an E-120 was very accommodating of 72 inch long skis.