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SkyReg
Topic Author
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:55 am

Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 1:36 pm

Good day all!

With the AC mainlines fleet of A330's now receiving the new long-haul cabin similar to that of the 777 and 787, and with the 320 and E190 ont the way out, I'm curious as to when and if their regional fleet will undergo some type of refresh. Many E175's, RJ's and Q400's have been repainted in the new livery. The seats however are still in older colors.

I'm particularly curious about the E175, as it is not leaving the fleet any time soon and it is the more "mainline" ish type of aircraft and has similar service (J Class, PTV's etc).

Also, what will eventually replace the old Dash 8's currently serving remote airports in Quebec, Ontario and BC? Are these aircraft not due for retirement soon?

Just wondering if anybody in the biz has any rumours or insight into this.

Regards.
 
wave46
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:02 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 1:38 pm

SkyReg wrote:
Good day all!

With the AC mainlines fleet of A330's now receiving the new long-haul cabin similar to that of the 777 and 787, and with the 320 and E190 ont the way out, I'm curious as to when and if their regional fleet will undergo some type of refresh. Many E175's, RJ's and Q400's have been repainted in the new livery. The seats however are still in older colors.

I'm particularly curious about the E175, as it is not leaving the fleet any time soon and it is the more "mainline" ish type of aircraft and has similar service (J Class, PTV's etc).

Also, what will eventually replace the old Dash 8's currently serving remote airports in Quebec, Ontario and BC? Are these aircraft not due for retirement soon?

Just wondering if anybody in the biz has any rumours or insight into this.

Regards.



It is my understanding that the Dash8-100 and -300 will be undergoing a service life extension program, especially since Bombardier stopped production in 2005 and 2009 respectively.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 1:56 pm

Jazz dash 8-100s begin retiring next year, along with the CRJ-200s, though those might remain in service at a different carrier for AC. There is a push to expand 76 seat flying in the group, while maintaining roughly the same fleet sizes. It's likely that they place a couple more orders forn76 seat aircraft down the road as they slowly retire 37 and 50 seaters.
 
SkyReg
Topic Author
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:55 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 2:04 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Jazz dash 8-100s begin retiring next year, along with the CRJ-200s, though those might remain in service at a different carrier for AC. There is a push to expand 76 seat flying in the group, while maintaining roughly the same fleet sizes. It's likely that they place a couple more orders forn76 seat aircraft down the road as they slowly retire 37 and 50 seaters.


E175 E2 comes to mind, does the takeoff weight issue with regards to the CPA apply in Canada?
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 2:34 pm

SkyReg wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
Jazz dash 8-100s begin retiring next year, along with the CRJ-200s, though those might remain in service at a different carrier for AC. There is a push to expand 76 seat flying in the group, while maintaining roughly the same fleet sizes. It's likely that they place a couple more orders forn76 seat aircraft down the road as they slowly retire 37 and 50 seaters.


E175 E2 comes to mind, does the takeoff weight issue with regards to the CPA apply in Canada?


IIRC, weight is not an issue. I'd say the most likely orders will be CRJ/Q400. The Q400 is the perfect regional platform for Canada. The CRJ for transborder, especially given its popularity at AC CPA carriers as it stands. While the Embraer product is great, it doesn't work in the network as well as a CRJ/Q400 unless they elect to expand sky regional, which I doubt.
 
CRJ900
Posts: 2387
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 2:54 pm

Aren't the CRJ705s getting a cabin refresh as they are turned into 76-seat CRJ900s so they match the six factory-fresh CRJ900 they took last year?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 3:59 pm

I wonder why in Canada both Embraer and Bombardier products are in service while in Brazil it is only Embraer?
Canada and Brazil are both large countries with many remote towns and cities that are suitable for 50 to 90 passenger aircraft. I would think that the economics of operating each product are similar in both countries. Is it Brazilian nationalism that prevents Bombardier products from operating there?
 
airman99o
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 1999 4:15 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 4:19 pm

AC operates both due to the 175 not having the same engine out performance of the CRJ705/900. This is what I have been told I could be wrong. Also its a reason why the 705/900's have moved mostly out west. If someone in the know wants to enlighten us. Please do :-)
I would like to see the 175's get new interiors as well as they are starting to look a little drab. Skyregional will be around for at least another 10 years so I can't imagine keeping the old dated interiors.
Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
 
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tjcab
Posts: 352
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Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 4:22 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
I wonder why in Canada both Embraer and Bombardier products are in service while in Brazil it is only Embraer?
Canada and Brazil are both large countries with many remote towns and cities that are suitable for 50 to 90 passenger aircraft. I would think that the economics of operating each product are similar in both countries. Is it Brazilian nationalism that prevents Bombardier products from operating there?


I don't see many regional aircraft operators on Brazil. Azul does have the ATR. Now, that being said, I'll have to assume that the E-Jets are superior to the CRJ? Air Canada, and i'm guessing here, knows this. It's also probably cheaper to purchase and maintain right there next to the manufacturer.
Last edited by tjcab on Sat May 19, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2788
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 8:14 pm

wave46 wrote:
SkyReg wrote:
Good day all!

With the AC mainlines fleet of A330's now receiving the new long-haul cabin similar to that of the 777 and 787, and with the 320 and E190 ont the way out, I'm curious as to when and if their regional fleet will undergo some type of refresh. Many E175's, RJ's and Q400's have been repainted in the new livery. The seats however are still in older colors.

I'm particularly curious about the E175, as it is not leaving the fleet any time soon and it is the more "mainline" ish type of aircraft and has similar service (J Class, PTV's etc).

Also, what will eventually replace the old Dash 8's currently serving remote airports in Quebec, Ontario and BC? Are these aircraft not due for retirement soon?

Just wondering if anybody in the biz has any rumours or insight into this.

Regards.



It is my understanding that the Dash8-100 and -300 will be undergoing a service life extension program, especially since Bombardier stopped production in 2005 and 2009 respectively.


As far as I know, only the 26 DH3s are getting the life extension program, which will easily add another 20 years of life to them. They’ll no doubt replace most DH1s, of which there are now only 14 left, all in the east. Currently most DH3s operate in the west (in fact all east DH3s only go as far west as YOW) I’d hazard a guess that 1/2 of the western DH3s will eventually move east and that AC will order more DH4s to replace those, some CRJs and for growth.

Most AC E75s nowadays are on transborder routes out of YYZ and YUL. The E75 has always operated east of the Rockies.

I’d also guess that AC will continue to split 76 seater orders between Bombardier and Embraer.
 
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SuperTwin
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Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 8:22 pm

E90/E75s are in the east due to some technical issue concerning flying over high mountain peaks (The Rockies).
SuperTwin
 
BenTheGreat97
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:18 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sat May 19, 2018 9:05 pm

Rumour has it (from some friends that fly for Jazz) that the classic Dash 8s will stay until the early 2020s for the -100s and the early/mid 2020s for the -300s.
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sun May 20, 2018 12:33 am

There really is a need in Canada for a plane in the DH1 class. A 76-seater will always be too much plane for many Canadian routes. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like any manufacturer is interested in the market. I guess the DH4 will end up doing the job, probably with reduced frequencies.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Sun May 20, 2018 1:35 am

What is the status on the retirement of the Beech-1900D? And when they are retired what would replace them?
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
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767333ER
Posts: 1170
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:14 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Mon May 21, 2018 4:59 am

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
What is the status on the retirement of the Beech-1900D? And when they are retired what would replace them?

Well unless they are retiring Georgian and EVAS as airlines, these aren’t going anywhere but into Tier 3 where they no longer have Air Canada branding and all if not almost all have been stripped of the Air Canada branding already.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

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flyingsikh
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Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Mon May 21, 2018 7:33 am

I’m actually disappointed to see the crj-200s go. Cramped as they were...I’d much rather fly on them then a dash 8 or Q400 for the 90-120 min hops I do. Economics/age I suppose took a toll.
Today gives us a chance to love, to work, to play, and to look up at the stars.
 
wave46
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:02 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Mon May 21, 2018 1:45 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
There really is a need in Canada for a plane in the DH1 class. A 76-seater will always be too much plane for many Canadian routes. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like any manufacturer is interested in the market. I guess the DH4 will end up doing the job, probably with reduced frequencies.


It's pretty much the ATR 42 that's left in the market. However, I imagine that AC Express/Jazz would be loath to buy it as it would be additional complexity in the fleet for only a few select marginal routes.

Either Jazz will upgrade to a DH4 as you've suggested or hand the market to a smaller operator under the AC Express banner.
 
drgmobile
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Mon May 21, 2018 4:10 pm

BenTheGreat97 wrote:
Rumour has it (from some friends that fly for Jazz) that the classic Dash 8s will stay until the early 2020s for the -100s and the early/mid 2020s for the -300s.


This would represent a change from what Air Canada has been saying for the past couple of years, which is that the -100s will be leaving and the -300s extended.

I wouldn't expect cabin changes for any regional aircraft as a result of AC's new mainline interiors except the Embraer 175s, as the rest of the regional fleet has leather seats of blue or grey.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1526
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Mon May 21, 2018 5:41 pm

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SuperTwin wrote:
E90/E75s are in the east due to some technical issue concerning flying over high mountain peaks (The Rockies).


Wasn’t an issue with the E190s, they operated out west for years! Furtherest west the 175s made it was YYC the odd time but nothing scheduled.
 
BenTheGreat97
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:18 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Tue May 22, 2018 2:03 am

drgmobile wrote:
BenTheGreat97 wrote:
Rumour has it (from some friends that fly for Jazz) that the classic Dash 8s will stay until the early 2020s for the -100s and the early/mid 2020s for the -300s.


This would represent a change from what Air Canada has been saying for the past couple of years, which is that the -100s will be leaving and the -300s extended.

I wouldn't expect cabin changes for any regional aircraft as a result of AC's new mainline interiors except the Embraer 175s, as the rest of the regional fleet has leather seats of blue or grey.



They have been telling me that they've noticed some of the -100s have been retiring lately, but I couldn't remember the tail numbers they told me. They are leaving, but slower. Was disclosed in their contracts apparently.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Tue May 22, 2018 2:48 am

Jazz just acquired 2 ex Piedmont Dash 8 300's, and just painted the first of their own in the new livery (yet to be finished). The 300s are not going anywhere soon, they will likely replace the 100s, and either shifting capacity to mainline/Rouge or new orders/purchases will backfill the displaced 300s.

The current jazz CPA guarantees all current 300s remain for the duration of the contract, which extends into the late-ish 2020s. The dash 100s and CRJ 200s however are not guaranteed, and will likely begin to retire.
 
teneriffe77
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:00 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Tue May 22, 2018 3:05 am

Speaking of AC Express will they ever paint the 1900's or are they going to remain all white?
 
9252fly
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Tue May 22, 2018 3:33 am

whywhyzee wrote:
Jazz just acquired 2 ex Piedmont Dash 8 300's, and just painted the first of their own in the new livery (yet to be finished). The 300s are not going anywhere soon, they will likely replace the 100s, and either shifting capacity to mainline/Rouge or new orders/purchases will backfill the displaced 300s.

The current jazz CPA guarantees all current 300s remain for the duration of the contract, which extends into the late-ish 2020s. The dash 100s and CRJ 200s however are not guaranteed, and will likely begin to retire.


That's very interesting news about the Piedmont Dash 8 300's. I regards to the fleet plan for Jazz, the current 10 operating CRJ 200's will leave the fleet by the end of 2020 (likely ending up at Air Georgian for their CPA with AC). The 15 operating Dash 8 100's will continue to trickle out and exit the fleet into the early 2020's,to some degree they are a backstop for the Dash 8 300's going through the lifetime extension program. The CPA with AC is in effect until the end of 2025. Post 2020 the fleet should comprise of essentially 26 Dash 8 300's, 21 CRJ 900's and 44 Dash 8 400's. It should not be surprising in the years to come to see small incremental increases in those three fleet types.
 
BenTheGreat97
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:18 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Tue May 22, 2018 3:36 am

teneriffe77 wrote:
Speaking of AC Express will they ever paint the 1900's or are they going to remain all white?


The partner airlines' B1900s will not see the new paint job. Rumour has it that AC wants the partner airlines to get rid of them as they don't meet all the basic AC Express service standards.
 
9252fly
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Tue May 22, 2018 3:39 am

teneriffe77 wrote:
Speaking of AC Express will they ever paint the 1900's or are they going to remain all white?


The story I heard was that AC doesn't want their branding on the B1900's, take that for what it's worth.
 
drgmobile
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

Re: Air Canada Express : Cabin refresh soon?

Tue May 22, 2018 11:14 am

BenTheGreat97 wrote:
teneriffe77 wrote:
Speaking of AC Express will they ever paint the 1900's or are they going to remain all white?


The partner airlines' B1900s will not see the new paint job. Rumour has it that AC wants the partner airlines to get rid of them as they don't meet all the basic AC Express service standards.


There is no viable aircraft available in that seating range to replace them.

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