Houston Hobby will have 3 new daily nonstops starting on November 4th (Burbank, Philadelphia and Sacramento)

You all think Hawaii gets dumped in the next schedule release?

tphuang wrote:

jco613 wrote:

looks like EWR-FLL is permanently down to 1X daily...not good considering I am moving from closer to BDL to closer to EWR next month!

EDIT: Take that back, it looks like it varies by day of the week. Not just weekends anymore. Frustrating!

EDIT 2: The second flight only appeared on ONE RANDOM Wednesday! C'mon WN!

I am not sure why they are not cutting both fll and mco entirely. They are completely uncompetitive on both routes and are bleeding money. Do they think going down to once daily will actually make it more viable?

I've flown EWR-MCO on WN, loved it, Wish they would increase the service, my flights were packed.

tbboko802 wrote:

Houston Hobby will have 3 new daily nonstops starting on November 4th (Burbank, Philadelphia and Sacramento)

This will be a resumption on HOU-PHL. I forget when they suspended it, but it has probably been a few years. Very anecdotally, I thought traffic on Houston-Philadelphia dropped after oil tanked with Ejets frequently seen across the AA and UA flights to IAH. It has only recently started to come back a bit and there is also F9 on IAH-PHL.

BUR gets nonstops to MDW and HOU

Jshank83 wrote:

also looks like MCI got a LGA slot

Poorly timed for LGA originating passengers, but it's something. Granted I'd rather leave LGA at 1:30 PM than 3 or later. Also excludes Saturdays.

nine4nine wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

LGB looks like they gained 5 flights added 2 more SMF ,3 daily LAS and 1 Saturday/Sunday Den Nonstop.
11 daily flights.

Flyguy

Would that make it officially a WN handled station now and not outsourced? IIRC union contracts would require WN in house handling on 10+ flights from a station.

It's already transferred to WN personal for above wing personal. I believe the Ramp is still contracted out! I could be wrong but there current contract is 14 or less is the magic number to have WN staffing.
Flyguy

CMH-MSY gets a second flight on Fridays.

modernArt wrote:

ryanrap1 wrote:

Anything for SAT?

Looks like a few Saturday-only nonstops SAT-LGA resume in November and December.

Also adding a few Saturday nonstops to ABQ during the same Nov/Dec time period.

flydulles wrote:

You all think Hawaii gets dumped in the next schedule release?

A lot of Rumors sayings a Big Hawaii June announcement is coming!

PAE airport hasn't finalized it's gate flow schedule yet. Sounds like AlaskaAir get one gate and United and Southwest share the other gate.
PAE hasn't decided who gets the overnight Gate spot and who has to Tow.

Flyguy

DeltaRules wrote:

CMH-MSY gets a second flight on Fridays.

I'm not seeing it, which dates are you seeing it on?

Midwestindy wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

CMH-MSY gets a second flight on Fridays.

I'm not seeing it, which dates are you seeing it on?

Briancw posted about it in the Ohio thread, but didn't say which dates.

jco613 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

jco613 wrote:

looks like EWR-FLL is permanently down to 1X daily...not good considering I am moving from closer to BDL to closer to EWR next month!

EDIT: Take that back, it looks like it varies by day of the week. Not just weekends anymore. Frustrating!

EDIT 2: The second flight only appeared on ONE RANDOM Wednesday! C'mon WN!

I am not sure why they are not cutting both fll and mco entirely. They are completely uncompetitive on both routes and are bleeding money. Do they think going down to once daily will actually make it more viable?

That's what is so frustrating. WN is my preferred airline...I can't stand B6. However, realistically, when you fly one flight at 6am and B6 and UA both have multiple flights and NK even has 3, how is someone who is not local to right around EWR able to take this option? It is a 1 hour drive to EWR from my new place, but only 15 mins to HPN...looks like I'll have to give up my loyalty. And I'm sure it's not just me...WN has strong local connections in FLL. How does someone who was vacationing in NYC get to EWR for a 6am flight? It's mind boggling how mismanaged WN's NE-FL strategy is, however they can get away with it in most markets with limited competition...NYC is a whole different animal though.

This is just not WN's strength. WN is not going to be strong everywhere. On a market like EWR-FLL, WN is not winning point of sale anywhere, so they are sharing low yielding customers with NK. You can always fill those planes from NE-FL, but not at a profitable fare.

SumChristianus wrote:

IND-BOS/EWR are at 1x daily apparently, a needed move due to low load factor. Is this new?

They are getting killed on them.

WN @ FLL: Notable changes listed
ALB: returns - generally 1X daily (not flown on Sunday after Thanksgiving or 1/6)
AUS : still 1X -738
BWI: 8X (4 of -700 and -800) 9X SA
BZE: Returns Daily
MDW: 3X daily (2X -700 1X -800) 4X SA
DAL: 2X daily -800 (was 3X in season)
HAV: Now 3X Daily (3rd is a -700) 3rd flight starts Aug 5 but will NOT fly Monday, August 6
LAS: becomes WEEKEND ONLY
MKE: Returns 1X daily -700
EWR: confirmed 1X -700 except holiday season
LGA: Remains weekend only
MCO: Steady at 4X -700
PHL: 2X 700 (1X Sa)
PVD: 1X 700 (2X SU)
PLS: Returns Daily)
RDU: 1X Daily 700 (2X WE)
STL: 2X Daily (1X 700 1X 800)

Should be right around 70-75 daily and no weekday MAX-8 flights...hmmm

DeltaRules wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

DeltaRules wrote:

CMH-MSY gets a second flight on Fridays.

I'm not seeing it, which dates are you seeing it on?

Briancw posted about it in the Ohio thread, but didn't say which dates.

It's not quite clear, but I think they mean second weekly (was mostly SUN only). However WN has run MSY-CMH along with RDU on Fridays during peak travel periods in addition to the Sun flight since it added the routes last year.

tphuang wrote:

jco613 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

h
I am not sure why they are not cutting both fll and mco entirely. They are completely uncometitive on both routes and are bleeding money. Do they think going down to once daily will actually make it more viable?

That's what is so frustrating. WN is my preferred airline...I can't stand B6. However, realistically, when you fly one flight at 6am and B6 and UA both have multiple flights and NK even has 3, how is someone who is not local to right around EWR able to take this option? It is a 1 hour drive to EWR from my new place, but only 15 mins to HPN...looks like I'll have to give up my loyalty. And I'm sure it's not just me...WN has strong local connections in FLL. How does someone who was vacationing in NYC get to EWR for a 6am flight? It's mind boggling how mismanaged WN's NE-FL strategy is, however they can get away with it in most markets with limited competition...NYC is a whole different animal though.

This is just not WN's strength. WN is not going to be strong everywhere. On a market like EWR-FLL, WN is not winning point of sale anywhere, so they are sharing low yielding customers with NK. You can always fill those planes from NE-FL, but not at a profitable fare.

Not disagreeing with you, but I just don't see a way to sustain 1X service on a route like this. Bare minimum is 2X for day business trips and for local customers. B6 does not have the loyalty many think in the FLL market. I'm just saying, I'd rather see them fly no flights rather than an early morning EWR-FLL and late night FLL-EWR. It's a heck of a lot easier for me to fly B6 when they are the only option vs having the WN carrot hanging from the stick.

Assuming nothing new for airports like ISP or MHT

Alright, one of the three DCA slots that WN got from AS will be used to introduce a 1x daily DCA-OKC flight. Southwest has elected to use the other two slots to increase service to BNA and DAL. DCA-BNA up from 3x to 4x daily while DCA-DAL up from 4x to 5x daily.

Have DAL flights overall increased? It seems they keep on finding room to squeeze more and more flights in there...but they must be reaching a limit there.
I expected PAE flights, but no announcements? They'll be crowded there to from the start!
Some IND flights (MCI, LAS) see very early and very late departures < 6am/ > 8pm only. Interesting to see that dichotomy.
Was hoping for IND-BNA but it doesn't seem to appear.
IND-DEN is 3x daily (down from 4x) on a few dates in December.

What is a little tough with a schedule change like this one is Southwest has increased the amount of variation within a "schedule period" compared to prior years. And this one is about as variable a period as they come. So it's difficult to necessary get a good picture of the schedule only inquiring on one day. Any given route could look very different between early November, the ten days around Thanksgiving, the first part of December and the Christmas/New Years period.

Sometimes changes you find in a schedule period like this are meaningful, durable adjustments. Other times they are just Southwest fine-tuning for the roller-coaster demand of this period.

wnflyguy wrote:

nine4nine wrote:

wnflyguy wrote:

LGB looks like they gained 5 flights added 2 more SMF ,3 daily LAS and 1 Saturday/Sunday Den Nonstop.
11 daily flights.

Flyguy

Would that make it officially a WN handled station now and not outsourced? IIRC union contracts would require WN in house handling on 10+ flights from a station.

It's already transferred to WN personal for above wing personal. I believe the Ramp is still contracted out! I could be wrong but there current contract is 14 or less is the magic number to have WN staffing.
Flyguy

12 is the magic number.

red66mustang wrote:

BUR gets nonstops to MDW and HOU

YES!!! Finally. Good to see this add. Both should be good routes especially providing 1 stop international connectivity thru HOU.

knope2001 wrote:

What is a little tough with a schedule change like this one is Southwest has increased the amount of variation within a "schedule period" compared to prior years. And this one is about as variable a period as they come. So it's difficult to necessary get a good picture of the schedule only inquiring on one day. Any given route could look very different between early November, the ten days around Thanksgiving, the first part of December and the Christmas/New Years period.

Sometimes changes you find in a schedule period like this are meaningful, durable adjustments. Other times they are just Southwest fine-tuning for the roller-coaster demand of this period.

100 percent agree with this. November has a different schedule almost every weekend (some big frequency swings on some routes). Any frequency changes are hard to track. Besides new routes and adds to slot controlled airports, I am not sure how much you can read into this update. December is the same way.

shaneam12 wrote:

Southwest has elected to use the other two slots to increase service to BNA and DAL. DCA-BNA up from 3x to 4x daily while DCA-DAL up from 4x to 5x daily.

Ugh, not to hijack this thread, but I wonder if AA will continue downgauging the DCA-BNA route as a result of WN's increase? For a while it was like 6-8 flights a day on mostly 2-class CR7s and EMB-175s. Then WN came in and AA cut flight numbers and aircraft size. A few bigger RJs are finally sneaking back in--tomorrow (6/1) shows 5 flights with 2 ERJ-175s and 3 single class RJs. I think it's fair to say WN won this market.

Looks like DEN-LBB was added.

Full release info for those interested.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 57031.html

KMCOFlyer wrote:

Full release info for those interested.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 57031.html

Thank you, was looking for this!

this part is interesting
Even More for San Jose

Southwest continues expanding in northern California with more flights to and from San Jose, Calif. By the end of Nov. 2018, the carrier will offer up to 99 departures a day to 24 destinations. Starting Nov. 4, 2018, Southwest will add new nonstop service Sundays through Fridays between San Jose, Calif. and Tucson, Ariz. Additionally, the carrier will now offer eight weekday roundtrips between San Jose, Calif. and Portland, Ore., an increase of two flights each weekday, and 12 nonstop flights weekdays between San Jose, Calif. and Orange County/Santa Ana, also an increase of two flights each weekday.

More capacity at SJC. And all on routes competing against AS.

Great to see ELP get some love! DEN-ELP goes 1x daily.

shaneam12 wrote:

Alright, one of the three DCA slots that WN got from AS will be used to introduce a 1x daily DCA-OKC flight.

If true...IT'S ABOUT BLEEPING TIME...and 8 years after they initially promised it to us!

Looks like WN permanently stopping service on PDX-SFO and SNA-SFO!
But using those aircraft to double down on PDX-SJC,SNA-SJC and adding SJC-TUS.

Flyguy

Interesting that Southwest's new DCA an LGA slots mostly added frequencies to existing routes. DCA-OKC and LGA-MSY are both overdue, but that's it for new weekday flying.

It was fun to speculate but I can't really argue that these were poor choices. Southwest has had tepid results at DCA/LGA/BOS in the colder half of the year except to their de facto hubs. So there's probably no point in using the new slots to add new point-to-point routes which lose money half the year, as much as it may have been more interesting.

WN732 wrote:

Great to see ELP get some love! DEN-ELP goes 1x daily.

Hopefully ELP-SAN will be next to got daily! We've been Sun only since March (and now thru the end of the year) on a route that used to see 2-3 daily r/t. The traffic is there to support a daily nonstop although there's no question that an AAG EMJ would be better suited to the current traffic levels. But I do expect they will grow if regular service is added. (G4 also serves the market occasionally.)

bb

jplatts wrote:

Why hasn't WN added RIC-MDW or RIC-LAS nonstop service yet? Greater Richmond is the 2nd largest U.S. metro area (after Greater Milwaukee) that has never had nonstop service to MDW on WN. The lack of nonstop service to LAS from RIC on any airline is also a huge hole, and there is enough demand for WN to add RIC-LAS nonstop service if another carrier doesn't add RIC-LAS nonstop service.

RIC is in a large enough market to support more than just nonstop service to ATL on WN, and WN usually has daily nonstop service to at least 3 destinations nonstop from markets that are the same size or larger than RIC. WN does have opportunities to add nonstop service to additional destinations from RIC, but WN hasn't yet taken advantage of that opportunity.

Because it must like other options better.

SANFan wrote:

WN732 wrote:

Great to see ELP get some love! DEN-ELP goes 1x daily.

Hopefully ELP-SAN will be next to got daily! We've been Sun only since March (and now thru the end of the year) on a route that used to see 2-3 daily r/t. The traffic is there to support a daily nonstop although there's no question that an AAG EMJ would be better suited to the current traffic levels. But I do expect they will grow if regular service is added. (G4 also serves the market occasionally.)

bb

SAN-ELP is most definitely a dangling carrot in front of AS. Although I don't know if they would open a new station based solely on service from SAN. I would imagine there would have to be at least SJC-ELP or PDX-ELP r/t involved too. But, WN seems to be paying attention to ELP again. Hopefully at least a daily ELP-SAN trip would start up again. Those flights were always full when I would fly that route and there has to be cargo to go with it.

WN732 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

WN732 wrote:

Great to see ELP get some love! DEN-ELP goes 1x daily.

Hopefully ELP-SAN will be next to got daily! We've been Sun only since March (and now thru the end of the year) on a route that used to see 2-3 daily r/t. The traffic is there to support a daily nonstop although there's no question that an AAG EMJ would be better suited to the current traffic levels. But I do expect they will grow if regular service is added. (G4 also serves the market occasionally.)

bb

SAN-ELP is most definitely a dangling carrot in front of AS. Although I don't know if they would open a new station based solely on service from SAN. I would imagine there would have to be at least SJC-ELP or PDX-ELP r/t involved too. But, WN seems to be paying attention to ELP again. Hopefully at least a daily ELP-SAN trip would start up again. Those flights were always full when I would fly that route and there has to be cargo to go with it.

PDX-SAT would likely come before PDX-ELP.

Already covered in the PIT thread but...

-PIT-MSY is completely gone after Oct 28th (shame)
-PIT-BNA gets a second daily flight
-PIT-LAX goes from 5x weekly to 6x weekly
-PIT-BWI goes 4x daily
-PIT-STL gets a second daily flight certain days of the week throughout Fall 2018

usairways85 wrote:

tbboko802 wrote:

Houston Hobby will have 3 new daily nonstops starting on November 4th (Burbank, Philadelphia and Sacramento)

This will be a resumption on HOU-PHL. I forget when they suspended it, but it has probably been a few years. Very anecdotally, I thought traffic on Houston-Philadelphia dropped after oil tanked with Ejets frequently seen across the AA and UA flights to IAH. It has only recently started to come back a bit and there is also F9 on IAH-PHL.

It was deleted when US flew it, while in Star Alliance, and US and UA were partners in the same alliance. Hopefully WN has better success this time around with lack of synergies shared between AA and UA. AFAIK, F9 only flies PHL-IAH 3x weekly, which is less of a competitive effect than daily or service that is closer to daily.

KMCOFlyer wrote:

Full release info for those interested.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 57031.html

It’s weird that article has no mention of the new daily DSM-PHX.

dbo861 wrote:

KMCOFlyer wrote:

Full release info for those interested.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 57031.html

It’s weird that article has no mention of the new daily DSM-PHX.

I think it's Saturday service only.

Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

dbo861 wrote:

KMCOFlyer wrote:

Full release info for those interested.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 57031.html

It’s weird that article has no mention of the new daily DSM-PHX.

I think it's Saturday service only.

Flyguy

It’s daily Nov 6-Dec 15. Only for half of this schedule period, but still it’s never been offered daily.

tphuang wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

WN had said last year that it wanted to add CMH-LGA nonstop service it if could acquire extra slots at LGA, and WN will likely be announcing CMH-LGA nonstop service next week.

I don't see the allure to WN operating CMH-LGA. Especially seeing how the largest aircraft on the route are CR9s &E175s. I rather see some more Florida service. I think making LGA-FLL 2x daily is essential if WN intends to compete for Caribbean bound NYC traffic.

They would get destroyed on that route. I guess it didn’t stop them from adding ewr fll, which they are definitely getting destroyed on. If they want to loose money undercutting b6 and dl in the nyc to Caribbean market, they can go right ahead.

I'm still surprised it didn't consider moving EWR-FLL to LGA-FLL. But if it did, it could maybe fill that void at EWR for ATL or BWI which would offer connections. In case of ATL, it would be a good O&D market.

I think point of sale would be slightly better at LGA over EWR for FLL service, with New Yorkers having stronger affinity to travel to South Florida than residents from NJ. And, in the NJ side where EWR is the closest airport, it's tough to win customers when there are a number of former CO now UA fliers. After UA, there's B6 has a strategy flying from all NYC airports to Florida with some good frequency.

And lastly below those two, NK is there. NK was prevalent on ACY-FLL and a lot of Monmouth/Ocean County residents who were familiar with NK to use NK, and will fine with them at EWR as well. NK adding EWR-FLL pretty much ruined WN on EWR-FLL. It's kind of like JCPenney trying to compete between Burlington (stores) and macy's, being in the middle, while UA is the Wal-Mart/Amazon at EWR.

dbo861 wrote:

KMCOFlyer wrote:

Full release info for those interested.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 57031.html

It’s weird that article has no mention of the new daily DSM-PHX.

I watched this pretty close last winter when it operated for 2-3 months. Besides spring break weekends, the fares were dirt cheap on most of the weekends! Some of it was $39 each way and that's with free checked luggage! I'm assuming they are just testing this market again for a month, this time to see how the week days perform during non-Christmas season. They want to use their busy season on routes that they know will perform so that is why it ends December 15th. They are also running it with a 737-800 on the days I checked. I'm assuming because fares were so cheap, they wanted to see if maybe a 737-800 would still fill on the cheap fares which has a lower cost per seat mile than the 737-700. It shall also be noted that DSM is outsourced and has a much lower cost than other stations so it allows for a profit on this route at a lower RASM. All just guesses.

AWACSooner wrote:

shaneam12 wrote:

Alright, one of the three DCA slots that WN got from AS will be used to introduce a 1x daily DCA-OKC flight.

If true...IT'S ABOUT BLEEPING TIME...and 8 years after they initially promised it to us!

Couldn’t agree more! It’s about time OKC got DCA service! The flights are well timed as well, 0730 departure out of OKC and 1800 out of DCA... Just too late of an announcement for me having moved out of the DC area last month to COS. I would’ve been on this flight all the time.

phluser wrote:

tphuang wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

I don't see the allure to WN operating CMH-LGA. Especially seeing how the largest aircraft on the route are CR9s &E175s. I rather see some more Florida service. I think making LGA-FLL 2x daily is essential if WN intends to compete for Caribbean bound NYC traffic.

They would get destroyed on that route. I guess it didn’t stop them from adding ewr fll, which they are definitely getting destroyed on. If they want to loose money undercutting b6 and dl in the nyc to Caribbean market, they can go right ahead.

I'm still surprised it didn't consider moving EWR-FLL to LGA-FLL. But if it did, it could maybe fill that void at EWR for ATL or BWI which would offer connections. In case of ATL, it would be a good O&D market.

I think point of sale would be slightly better at LGA over EWR for FLL service, with New Yorkers having stronger affinity to travel to South Florida than residents from NJ. And, in the NJ side where EWR is the closest airport, it's tough to win customers when there are a number of former CO now UA fliers. After UA, there's B6 has a strategy flying from all NYC airports to Florida with some good frequency.

And lastly below those two, NK is there. NK was prevalent on ACY-FLL and a lot of Monmouth/Ocean County residents who were familiar with NK to use NK, and will fine with them at EWR as well. NK adding EWR-FLL pretty much ruined WN on EWR-FLL. It's kind of like JCPenney trying to compete between Burlington (stores) and macy's, being in the middle, while UA is the Wal-Mart/Amazon at EWR.

I don’t see how wn would have a better time of filling seats out of lga. The dynamics is no different than ewr and wn might as well be nk in nyc.

And also, b6 yields as well if not better than ua on ewr fll. So if wn actually had any kind of point of sale at fll, it should be doing better. With this and basically exiting out of las fll. It shows a lot of weakness for them.

Btw, they are down to 2 a day on bos atl. Won’t be surprised if they get pushed out on that route too. They are getting killed out of Boston.

phluser wrote:

tphuang wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

I don't see the allure to WN operating CMH-LGA. Especially seeing how the largest aircraft on the route are CR9s &E175s. I rather see some more Florida service. I think making LGA-FLL 2x daily is essential if WN intends to compete for Caribbean bound NYC traffic.

They would get destroyed on that route. I guess it didn’t stop them from adding ewr fll, which they are definitely getting destroyed on. If they want to loose money undercutting b6 and dl in the nyc to Caribbean market, they can go right ahead.

I'm still surprised it didn't consider moving EWR-FLL to LGA-FLL. But if it did, it could maybe fill that void at EWR for ATL or BWI which would offer connections. In case of ATL, it would be a good O&D market.

I think point of sale would be slightly better at LGA over EWR for FLL service, with New Yorkers having stronger affinity to travel to South Florida than residents from NJ. And, in the NJ side where EWR is the closest airport, it's tough to win customers when there are a number of former CO now UA fliers. After UA, there's B6 has a strategy flying from all NYC airports to Florida with some good frequency.

And lastly below those two, NK is there. NK was prevalent on ACY-FLL and a lot of Monmouth/Ocean County residents who were familiar with NK to use NK, and will fine with them at EWR as well. NK adding EWR-FLL pretty much ruined WN on EWR-FLL. It's kind of like JCPenney trying to compete between Burlington (stores) and macy's, being in the middle, while UA is the Wal-Mart/Amazon at EWR.

EWR has a bit more of a catchment area. I will be living 10 minutes walk to the Stamford, CT train station. It is a 2-3 stop train ride to EWR and a little over 90 mins OR a 1 hr 10 min drive. In the summer, I'd prefer HPN which is a 15 minute drive...but in the winter when fares balloon, EWR or bust!

So to my point, EWR is a bit more of a catchment area than you'd think. really from Southern CT to near PHL. LGA may get more PEOPLE though. That said, I guess I should be happy we have ANYTHING-FLL on WN.

MIflyer12 wrote:

WN732 wrote:

SAN-ELP is most definitely a dangling carrot in front of AS. Although I don't know if they would open a new station based solely on service from SAN. I would imagine there would have to be at least SJC-ELP or PDX-ELP r/t involved too. But, WN seems to be paying attention to ELP again. Hopefully at least a daily ELP-SAN trip would start up again. Those flights were always full when I would fly that route and there has to be cargo to go with it.

PDX-ELP? Could they even fill a B1900 on that route?

I don’t think they’d fill it on SFO-ELP.