User avatar
AASAP777
Topic Author
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 6:04 pm

This just came in a few minutes ago.

Only info available in Spanish: http://www.laprensa.hn/honduras/1180449 ... -honduras-

This is the aircraft:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N813WM


Apparently no casualties. Plane fell exactly were TA390 ended up in 2008. Flying AUS-TGU.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
User avatar
AASAP777
Topic Author
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 6:11 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
They're lucky. Doesn't look like a very smooth resting place.


Not at all. Kind of a deep cliff and beneath it, a major road passes by. When TA390 happened, it crushed several cars. Thank goodness they made it alive and no one on the ground was injured.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
User avatar
Gonzalo
Posts: 1821
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:43 am

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 6:54 pm

Live on the news now in Chile. "Pilot didn't know how complex is this airfield", according to the news. Apparently he/she didn´t hear about TA 390 ....

Rgds.
G.
Gear Up!!: DC-3 / EMB-110 / FH-227 / A318-19-20-21 / B732 / B763 / B789 / B788 / A343 / ATR72-600
 
SGAviation
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:59 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 7:02 pm

The FlightAware link already has a picture of N813WM's wreck:

Image
 
Aviano789
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 7:16 pm

Gonzalo wrote:
Live on the news now in Chile. "Pilot didn't know how complex is this airfield", according to the news. Apparently he/she didn´t hear about TA 390 ....

Rgds.
G.


Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.
 
Aviano789
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 7:28 pm

Gonzalo wrote:
Live on the news now in Chile. "Pilot didn't know how complex is this airfield", according to the news. Apparently he/she didn´t hear about TA 390 ....

Rgds.
G.

MHTG akaTNT as that airport is called did add an additional 600 feet to Rwy 20 after the TA 390 accident.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 8:36 pm

Stay curious
 
User avatar
AASAP777
Topic Author
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 8:48 pm

Aviano789 wrote:
Gonzalo wrote:
Live on the news now in Chile. "Pilot didn't know how complex is this airfield", according to the news. Apparently he/she didn´t hear about TA 390 ....

Rgds.
G.

MHTG akaTNT as that airport is called did add an additional 600 feet to Rwy 20 after the TA 390 accident.



The addition was done for landings on 20 (north-south approach), however, these guys landed on 02 (south-north). The north-south approach is seldom done at TGU.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
User avatar
AASAP777
Topic Author
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 9:09 pm

Image


The very moment when the plane went out from the runway to that cliff.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
buzzard302
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:06 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Tue May 22, 2018 11:19 pm

Wow. It's been a bad year for aviation incidents so far.
 
trent772
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 3:05 am

Aviano789 wrote:
Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.


Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?

Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?

What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.
 
Aviano789
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 3:55 am

trent772 wrote:
Aviano789 wrote:
Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.


Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?

Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?

What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.
y
FYI The word “dangerous “ was never used in my post on CFM56 engines. I think you should serve your time studying what the term Discovery and Subpeona means in civil litigation.
 
Dreamflight767
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:43 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 3:58 am

Those are some very courageous bystanders. The PAX and crew own them a few drinks to say the least. What the hell happened to first responders/ARFF?
 
Aviano789
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 4:26 am

trent772 wrote:
Aviano789 wrote:
Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.


Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?

Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?

What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.

Dear Mr.or Ms. Trent772 Know it all:
The last time I check the Definition of NOTAM means the following:
A Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) is a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight & even during ground operations.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 4871
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 5:08 am

I certainly wouldn't want to fly into TGU for the first time without doing my homework first!
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
User avatar
AirlineCritic
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 5:50 am

AASAP777 wrote:
Image


The very moment when the plane went out from the runway to that cliff.


That is incredible.

And I'm very happy that there was no fatalities in this accident. Injuries? Hope everyone heals quickly.
 
User avatar
AirlineCritic
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 5:51 am

Can someone link to the airport maps? I'd like to understand the situation and where they came from.
 
trent772
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 8:14 am

Aviano789 wrote:
trent772 wrote:
Aviano789 wrote:
Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.


Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?

Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?

What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.
y
FYI The word “dangerous “ was never used in my post on CFM56 engines. I think you should serve your time studying what the term Discovery and Subpeona means in civil litigation.



So you discovered that the pilot didn’t read his Notams and you’ll subpoena him so he testifies??

LOL!!

And yes, you probably didn’t refer to the cfm’s dangerous, you did say that widebodies were safer overwater, anyhow, thanks for a much needed laugh.
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 8:34 am

AirlineCritic wrote:
Can someone link to the airport maps? I'd like to understand the situation and where they came from.


That is were the plane ended up apparently, overshot the single runway straight over its northern end...

Image

And here is the full overview in Google Maps:

https://goo.gl/maps/5JTTBjjuPrJ2
 
77H
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 9:15 am

CARST wrote:
AirlineCritic wrote:
Can someone link to the airport maps? I'd like to understand the situation and where they came from.


That is were the plane ended up apparently, overshot the single runway straight over its northern end...

Image

And here is the full overview in Google Maps:

https://goo.gl/maps/5JTTBjjuPrJ2


If there were ever a major commercial airport that needed an EMAS, this has to be in the top 5... Surprised an investment hasn’t been made.

One would think if the airlines serving TGU were to demand the aviation authority governing the airport to install one, I’d imagine they’d get it done.

I seem to remember a few islands in the South Pacific where airlines pulled service from airports until infrastructure improvements were made. I’m surprised the airline’s serving some of these more “challenging” airports aren’t getting demands from their insurance underwriters to pressure airports they serve to bring about improvements that improve safety and limit damage to aircraft.

77H
Last edited by 77H on Wed May 23, 2018 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
trent772
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 9:25 am

Aviano789 wrote:
trent772 wrote:
Aviano789 wrote:
Notice to Airman (NOTAM) must always be part of flight planning. If what you say is true about the pilot, then his ticket must be revoke.


Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?

Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?

What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.

Dear Mr.or Ms. Trent772 Know it all:
The last time I check the Definition of NOTAM means the following:
A Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) is a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight & even during ground operations.


By the way, I’m sure he checked his Notams but these wouldn’t have informed this pilot wether the airfield was a challenging one or not, the Notams you’re refering to merely inform crew on the state of the equipment installed at the airfield, amendments to the runway declared distances, lighting, markings, fire fighting services and so on.

A good option would have been to get a thorough briefing from someone who had been there before or to check the Jeppesen airport briefing pages, there’s some very useful information on them. Most Airlines have very strict rules when operating into TNT, like Captain has to be the pilot flying, higher weather minimums than those published and the pilots have to have a special qualification that may require a couple of flights with a flight instructor or check airman.

All in all a very unfortunate turn of events for this crew and its passengers, TNT is indeed one of the most challenging airports in the world.
 
Aviano789
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 1:49 pm

trent772 wrote:
Aviano789 wrote:
trent772 wrote:

Yeaaahhhh!! Revoke his license and throw him in jail, just like that, no investigation needed or anything, you seem to be a juggernaut of aviation knowledge, weren’t you firmly stating a couple or weeks ago that CFM56’s were dangerous for overwater flights?

Do you think a Notam is going to say “be careful, this is a challenging airport”?

What you’re suggesting is just BS and you show a complete lack of understanding how aviation works in general.

Dear Mr.or Ms. Trent772 Know it all:
The last time I check the Definition of NOTAM means the following:
A Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) is a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight & even during ground operations.


By the way, I’m sure he checked his Notams but these wouldn’t have informed this pilot wether the airfield was a challenging one or not, the Notams you’re refering to merely inform crew on the state of the equipment installed at the airfield, amendments to the runway declared distances, lighting, markings, fire fighting services and so on.

A good option would have been to get a thorough briefing from someone who had been there before or to check the Jeppesen airport briefing pages, there’s some very useful information on them. Most Airlines have very strict rules when operating into TNT, like Captain has to be the pilot flying, higher weather minimums than those published and the pilots have to have a special qualification that may require a couple of flights with a flight instructor or check airman.

All in all a very unfortunate turn of events for this crew and its passengers, TNT is indeed one of the most challenging airports in the world.

I have operated into TNT back in 80s & 90s at least 3 dozen times, and that was pre-TACA Flight 390 accident and prior to an additional 600-1000 feet was added to the Rwy. The lesson learned for a safe landing at that airport are as follows:
(1) A stabilized approach is must.
(2) Never come in hot
(3) Zero floating is permissible
(4) Exceptional spot landing skills comes into play, shooting for the numbers
(5) Recognize and abort an unstable approach early in the game that cannot be completed safely.
I have no solid evidence if this aircraft was equipped with CVR & FDR and if the flight was conducted pursuant to FAR Part 91, or Part 121. Other than an unexpected mechanical brake failure, investigators will likely find the foregoing 5 mention items are contributing factors to this accident.
 
Aviano789
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 2:14 pm

77H wrote:
CARST wrote:
AirlineCritic wrote:
Can someone link to the airport maps? I'd like to understand the situation and where they came from.


That is were the plane ended up apparently, overshot the single runway straight over its northern end...

Image

And here is the full overview in Google Maps:

https://goo.gl/maps/5JTTBjjuPrJ2


If there were ever a major commercial airport that needed an EMAS, this has to be in the top 5... Surprised an investment hasn’t been made.

One would think if the airlines serving TGU were to demand the aviation authority governing the airport to install one, I’d imagine they’d get it done.

I seem to remember a few islands in the South Pacific where airlines pulled service from airports until infrastructure improvements were made. I’m surprised the airline’s serving some of these more “challenging” airports aren’t getting demands from their insurance underwriters to pressure airports they serve to bring about improvements that improve safety and limit damage to aircraft.

77H

I think Honduran government should look for international financing to build a new airport on flat land elsewhere in the country and close that airport.
 
skybird77
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 2:18 pm

Im sure the politicians and media will be demanding that operations move to the Palmerola air base as soon as possible (like they always do after any incident at TGU). For decades I've been hearing about a new airport but nothing happens. I'm relieved everyone made it out alive and no cars were hit!
 
trent772
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 2:41 pm

Aviano789 wrote:
I think Honduran government should look for international financing to build a new airport on flat land elsewhere in the country and close that airport.


It seems they’re already working on it

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 02844.html
 
Guillaume787
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:02 am

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Wed May 23, 2018 5:22 pm

77H[/quote]
I think Honduran government should look for international financing to build a new airport on flat land elsewhere in the country and close that airport.[/quote]

The new Palmerola International Airport is being built by the Honduran Government to replace Toncontin airport:

https://www.airport-technology.com/proj ... l-airport/

The new terminal is expected to be operational in 2019.

Previously, Palmerola was used by the US Military as a base of operations in the 1980s and it currently houses between 500-600 U.S. troops.
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Thu May 24, 2018 7:06 am

Guillaume787 wrote:
The new Palmerola International Airport is being built by the Honduran Government to replace Toncontin airport:

https://www.airport-technology.com/proj ... l-airport/

The new terminal is expected to be operational in 2019.

Previously, Palmerola was used by the US Military as a base of operations in the 1980s and it currently houses between 500-600 U.S. troops.


Are there plans to connect Palmerola to the city by train? 70-75 miles out is quite a distance and could be a killer for the project if the old airport stays open.
 
okie73
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:09 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Thu May 24, 2018 1:10 pm

I’ve often wondered what the requirements are for business jet pilots to go in to TGU. At most US airlines, a captain has to go there twice with an experienced line check airman before being signed off to operate at that airport
 
santi319
Posts: 816
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Thu May 24, 2018 2:06 pm

CARST wrote:
Are there plans to connect Palmerola to the city by train? 70-75 miles out is quite a distance and could be a killer for the project if the old airport stays open.


Its only 43 miles.
 
Aviano789
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Thu May 24, 2018 2:27 pm

okie73 wrote:
I’ve often wondered what the requirements are for business jet pilots to go in to TGU. At most US airlines, a captain has to go there twice with an experienced line check airman before being signed off to operate at that airport

Nowadays some FAR Part 91, & 135 operators run their crews thru a few Sim sessions and they are good to go.
 
Armodeen
Posts: 1181
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Thu May 24, 2018 2:38 pm

Aviano789 wrote:
trent772 wrote:
Aviano789 wrote:
Dear Mr.or Ms. Trent772 Know it all:
The last time I check the Definition of NOTAM means the following:
A Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) is a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight & even during ground operations.


By the way, I’m sure he checked his Notams but these wouldn’t have informed this pilot wether the airfield was a challenging one or not, the Notams you’re refering to merely inform crew on the state of the equipment installed at the airfield, amendments to the runway declared distances, lighting, markings, fire fighting services and so on.

A good option would have been to get a thorough briefing from someone who had been there before or to check the Jeppesen airport briefing pages, there’s some very useful information on them. Most Airlines have very strict rules when operating into TNT, like Captain has to be the pilot flying, higher weather minimums than those published and the pilots have to have a special qualification that may require a couple of flights with a flight instructor or check airman.

All in all a very unfortunate turn of events for this crew and its passengers, TNT is indeed one of the most challenging airports in the world.

I have operated into TNT back in 80s & 90s at least 3 dozen times, and that was pre-TACA Flight 390 accident and prior to an additional 600-1000 feet was added to the Rwy. The lesson learned for a safe landing at that airport are as follows:
(1) A stabilized approach is must.
(2) Never come in hot
(3) Zero floating is permissible
(4) Exceptional spot landing skills comes into play, shooting for the numbers
(5) Recognize and abort an unstable approach early in the game that cannot be completed safely.
I have no solid evidence if this aircraft was equipped with CVR & FDR and if the flight was conducted pursuant to FAR Part 91, or Part 121. Other than an unexpected mechanical brake failure, investigators will likely find the foregoing 5 mention items are contributing factors to this accident.


Thanks for your insights, posts like this make this forum.
 
remingtonbox
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:44 am

Re: Plane overran runway at TGU

Thu May 24, 2018 2:47 pm

Aviano789 wrote:
okie73 wrote:
I’ve often wondered what the requirements are for business jet pilots to go in to TGU. At most US airlines, a captain has to go there twice with an experienced line check airman before being signed off to operate at that airport

Nowadays some FAR Part 91, & 135 operators run their crews thru a few Sim sessions and they are good to go.


Part 91, there really isn't any. We go where the boss wants to go and deal with logistics as needed. I have been into some super short airports because thats where the client was, I just adapted and did it.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos