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AAR
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SAS looking for new long haul plane

Wed May 23, 2018 7:26 pm

www.check-in.dk has the headline that CEO from SAS says they are looking for a new long haul plane ... my guess is A321neo plus or A330-800 ...
SAS has 8 firm orders on A350-900 and an option on 5 frames more.. SAS ordered an A330-900 a month ago to replace the old LanChile plane.

Sadly behind a pay wall...
 
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American 767
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Wed May 23, 2018 10:57 pm

It sounds like SAS wants to stick with Airbus for its long haul fleet. Are they looking at the 787? I think that the 787-8 and/or -9 would be the right sized airplane for them, for long haul flights to Asia and the West Coast of the USA. They could consider opening new routes to the South Pacific with the 787, if there is enough demand, although I doubt they are interested in flying to Australia or New Zealand.
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Wed May 23, 2018 11:12 pm

I couldn't find anything on SAS getting an A339 as the OP states, but it makes absolute sense for them to do so. If they bought 787's, Airbus should beg/plead/blackmail JL to come back.
 
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FA9295
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Wed May 23, 2018 11:24 pm

The A330-800 would make no sense at all. They'd be the only customer with that aircraft (correct me if I'm wrong), since Hawaiian backed out of it for the 787-9.
 
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Polot
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Wed May 23, 2018 11:29 pm

SAS ordered a A333, not A339. I don’t understand why they are looking for a new long haul plane when they haven’t even received the ones they ordered yet.
 
Nami
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Wed May 23, 2018 11:33 pm

The story doesn’t really say anything about new widebody aircraft but the point is rather about the fact that they have the option to change some of the ordered A320neos to A321LR. They call the A321LR a “very interesting” aircraft but there are no concrete plans at this moment in time. So nothing too interesting, really.

Apparently there was a route map during the presentation with a few example destinations marked such as: New York, Boston, Washington, Montreal, Toronto, Cape Verde, Addis Ababa, Entebbe, Teheran, Dubai, Islamabad, Lahore, Delhi, Mumbai. I assume many if not most of these were just used as examples of the range of the A321LR from SAS’ hubs.

There’s also a mention that they also have the option to delay the phase-out of their A340 if market conditions are favorable.
 
AA737-823
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 1:56 am

AAR wrote:
http://www.check-in.dk has the headline that CEO from SAS says they are looking for a new long haul plane ... my guess is A321neo plus or A330-800 ...
SAS has 8 firm orders on A350-900 and an option on 5 frames more.. SAS ordered an A330-900 a month ago to replace the old LanChile plane.

Sadly behind a pay wall...


Wait a minute.
You're trying to convince me that an airline that has all of SIXTEEN widebodies in their current fleet, should "diversify" to having roughly the same fleet size made up of A330-300s, A330-800s, A330-900s, and A350-900s?
Uh, no.
It's taken SAS several decades to come around to the obvious logic that a small mixed fleet of 737s and A320s made no sense.
Why would they undo that progress via far more expensive widebodies?
 
Kikko19
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 5:15 am

With good discounts I would see 339, they could match the A359 where less loads are expected. Much cheaper. Also Finnair has 330 and will keep them. Of course A 321LR should come as well. They have to decide at least 2 years before any delivery. So a source told me
 
behramjee
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 5:21 am

AAR wrote:
http://www.check-in.dk has the headline that CEO from SAS says they are looking for a new long haul plane ... my guess is A321neo plus or A330-800 ...
SAS has 8 firm orders on A350-900 and an option on 5 frames more.. SAS ordered an A330-900 a month ago to replace the old LanChile plane.

Sadly behind a pay wall...


SAS ordered an A333 and not an A339Neo http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... haul-.html

They should just standardize the future long haul WB fleet around the A350-900 and if they need more capacity on selected routes in Asia or Star hubs in USA year round then get the A351. No need at all to have A330s and A350s operating side by side.

Future fleet as ordered should be A320Neo family line for NB and A350 family line for WB - plain and simple for everyone to handle.
 
Antarius
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 5:22 am

Kikko19 wrote:
With good discounts I would see 339, they could match the A359 where less loads are expected. Much cheaper. Also Finnair has 330 and will keep them. Of course A 321LR should come as well. They have to decide at least 2 years before any delivery. So a source told me


Why does Finnairs fleet choice matter to SAS?
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Someone83
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 5:28 am

Nami wrote:
The story doesn’t really say anything about new widebody aircraft but the point is rather about the fact that they have the option to change some of the ordered A320neos to A321LR. They call the A321LR a “very interesting” aircraft but there are no concrete plans at this moment in time. So nothing too interesting, really.

Apparently there was a route map during the presentation with a few example destinations marked such as: New York, Boston, Washington, Montreal, Toronto, Cape Verde, Addis Ababa, Entebbe, Teheran, Dubai, Islamabad, Lahore, Delhi, Mumbai. I assume many if not most of these were just used as examples of the range of the A321LR from SAS’ hubs.

There’s also a mention that they also have the option to delay the phase-out of their A340 if market conditions are favorable.


Exactly, and all your points are correct :)
 
a350lover
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 5:41 am

Nami wrote:

Apparently there was a route map during the presentation with a few example destinations marked such as: New York, Boston, Washington, Montreal, Toronto, Cape Verde, Addis Ababa, Entebbe, Teheran, Dubai, Islamabad, Lahore, Delhi, Mumbai. I assume many if not most of these were just used as examples of the range of the A321LR from SAS’ hubs.

There’s also a mention that they also have the option to delay the phase-out of their A340 if market conditions are favorable.


I am not sure what's the two-class configuration that an airline like SAS could get for their A321LR, but I suspect the long-haul on single-aisle aircrafts won't be successful for everyone. Although many airlines will be tempted to try it out, I'd recommend them to study in depth which are the routes that can work with it, but I believe, it can't suit all the network.

On the other hand, the A340, with the oil prices rising, probably will see sooner replacement for everyone. I am not sure wether within SAS's network the A340 operates any market needing such a big bird for cargo/runway needs. I don't think so?
 
YIMBY
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 5:58 am

behramjee wrote:
AAR wrote:
http://www.check-in.dk has the headline that CEO from SAS says they are looking for a new long haul plane ... my guess is A321neo plus or A330-800 ...
SAS has 8 firm orders on A350-900 and an option on 5 frames more.. SAS ordered an A330-900 a month ago to replace the old LanChile plane.

Sadly behind a pay wall...


SAS ordered an A333 and not an A339Neo http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... haul-.html

They should just standardize the future long haul WB fleet around the A350-900 and if they need more capacity on selected routes in Asia or Star hubs in USA year round then get the A351. No need at all to have A330s and A350s operating side by side.

Future fleet as ordered should be A320Neo family line for NB and A350 family line for WB - plain and simple for everyone to handle.


Quite so, but no need for A351: it is better to add frequency, unless they cannot get slots at any price. Instead they should add 321LR's as many members already mentioned above. As SAS flies from several origins (ARN, CPH, OSL, even GOT) to several destinations and does not have banks for connections (like AY) they can easily add more flight on the most popular routes, unless slots or political restrictions limit it, but such limitations concern mostly Asia where SAS is weak, not Americas, where SAS is strong. While 330 may serve as a compromise between 321LR and 359, they should avoid diversifying their fleet with new subtypes of it.

(Of course, the brand of SAS is diverse fleet and if they simplify their fleet too much they could be called Eurowings. That would be no reason for me to stop flying with then, though, unless other reasons emerge.)
 
Kikko19
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 7:11 am

Antarius wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
With good discounts I would see 339, they could match the A359 where less loads are expected. Much cheaper. Also Finnair has 330 and will keep them. Of course A 321LR should come as well. They have to decide at least 2 years before any delivery. So a source told me


Why does Finnairs fleet choice matter to SAS?
just to note that other small airlines have more than one ACFT in the fleet, and don't go the DY way. I see the a321lr more likely of course, but there's the problem with the 3 class config ... unless they invent a new product to counter increasing low cost competition from secondary airports as bgo /got / svg/ agp/ (and maybe lhr in the future if they can use it as a hub?)
Last edited by Kikko19 on Thu May 24, 2018 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
FatCat
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 7:16 am

SAS 8 A343s were all built around 2001-2002 except LN-RKP that is 21 years old.
4 of 8 A333s are 15+ years old, other are way younger.
So they may think about replacing the older 343s starting from LN-RKP, but why should they buy the 787?
It will mean a full crew type rating, no crew shift between A330s and A340s, a dedicated simulator, new tech ops... that makes absolutely no sense.
If they want a new long haul plane there is plenty of A330s, and the model is still in production... they may choose the A339 when the young A333 fleets becomes old, in 12 - 13 years, maybe.
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sas931
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 7:20 am

SAS is on the way to become an all Airbus airline..
I am of the opinion that the aircraft would be the A321LR, not the A350ULR
 
CRJ900
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 9:25 am

Scandinavian charter carrier Novair used their new 221-seat A321NEO on non-stop OSL/ARN - Cape Verde this winter, 7hrs30min, impressive. A 180-195-seat A321LR in SAS config will be a great tool for long thin routes.

I think the A359 will be too big for many routes and that SAS will take only 6-8 aircraft and convert options into 242T A333 or 251T A339 or A321LR. SAS is going for better yields and not just volume now.
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Kikko19
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 9:34 am

CRJ900 wrote:
Scandinavian charter carrier Novair used their new 221-seat A321NEO on non-stop OSL/ARN - Cape Verde this winter, 7hrs30min, impressive. A 180-195-seat A321LR in SAS config will be a great tool for long thin routes.

I think the A359 will be too big for many routes and that SAS will take only 6-8 aircraft and convert options into 242T A333 or 251T A339 or A321LR. SAS is going for better yields and not just volume now.

Totally! the title says "new long haul plane" just have to decipher if a321lr is new plane or will be the 339... (i agree no a350lr )
 
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keesje
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 9:42 am

A 787-8/9 fleet to supplement A350's doesn't seem a bad idea. No doubt airbus will go in with the A330NEO.

Image

I wouldn't automatically assume this goes Airbus. The 787 seems a suitable aircraft for the reuirement & Boeing probably wants to invest displacing the A330's at SAS.
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redcap1962
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 11:37 am

Whatever type they will get, let's hope they won't change their livery - or if so at least keep the red engines! Looks stunning on every jet plane!
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 12:04 pm

keesje wrote:
A 787-8/9 fleet to supplement A350's doesn't seem a bad idea. No doubt airbus will go in with the A330NEO.

Image

I wouldn't automatically assume this goes Airbus. The 787 seems a suitable aircraft for the reuirement & Boeing probably wants to invest displacing the A330's at SAS.


I think SAS are looking to standardise their fleet around one manufacturer and even one type - I wouldn't be surprised if they ordered more A350s so as to keep the crew costs down - having a subfleet of Dreamliners will cost them in having to have sub-groups of pilots and cabin crew training etc etc .

SAS have talked quite recently about wanting to expand their long haul network out of OSL and with the potential to tap into the cargo market into and out of Norway, the A350 could work quite well for them there.
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Someone83
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 12:16 pm

keesje wrote:
I wouldn't automatically assume this goes Airbus. The 787 seems a suitable aircraft for the reuirement & Boeing probably wants to invest displacing the A330's at SAS.


Well, consider this article talks about the possibility to convert some A320neo orders into some A321neoLR....I can't see Beoing involved here ;)
 
B764er
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 12:49 pm

I wouldn't think A321 as long haul aircraft in SAS' case. I would think more like A350. I think they are more likely to go that way. I would also love a more colorful cs on their new aircraft. I think it's time.
 
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 1:08 pm

I think they will stay with their order of the A350's. If anything else. The A321LR, with a proper business cabin could maybe make sense on some thinner routes or to start new long-haul routes out of OSL perhaps.

But then again there's Norwegian..............
 
Kikko19
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 1:28 pm

OSL777FLYER wrote:
I think they will stay with their order of the A350's. If anything else. The A321LR, with a proper business cabin could maybe make sense on some thinner routes or to start new long-haul routes out of OSL perhaps.

But then again there's Norwegian..............


Norwegian is going towards IAG or Ryanair... (https://www.hd.se/2018-05-24/norwegians ... ntresserat ) or somebody else. SAS is doing fine and it's not DY they have to worry about. I see more the oil prices/ world economy as mounting worries for them and everybody else.
 
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keesje
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 2:39 pm

I think SAS has already been experimenting with NB on the Atlantic (CPH - BOS / EWR).

That could clear the way for considerably larger A321LR's.

Image

https://www.privatair.com/news/23032016-1025/privatair-commenced-daily-nonstop-flights-between-copenhagen-and-boston-behalf
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Kikko19
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 4:30 pm

keesje wrote:
I think SAS has already been experimenting with NB on the Atlantic (CPH - BOS / EWR).

That could clear the way for considerably larger A321LR's.

Image

https://www.privatair.com/news/23032016-1025/privatair-commenced-daily-nonstop-flights-between-copenhagen-and-boston-behalf

Well. They had the plane leased because of the the SVG IAH all biz plan gone south when the oil industry went belly up. So they had to redeploy it somewhere with 20/40 biz/eco but got rid of it as soon as the contract with privat air expired. But I agree with the A 321LR would be a complete different story.
 
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 6:59 pm

I agree an airline like SAS should keep their fleet as uncomplicated as possible. Investing in a Boeing 787 makes no sense, with already so many Airbus in their fleet and on order. I do even wonder if the A350 is the right aircraft for SAS, do they need the additional range and capacity? I would suggest looking closely at the 251t A339, I don't Airbus would make fuss if SAS wanted to convert their A350 order into A339s.

With just one long haul aircraft type for SAS (A330), they could consider adding a second type in the future. One I think could be perfect for them: the 797. I know this sounds contradictory to what I just mentioned, but a 797/A330neo combo sounds very good for smaller airlines operating long/medium haul routes.
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OSL777FLYER
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Thu May 24, 2018 10:10 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
keesje wrote:
I think SAS has already been experimenting with NB on the Atlantic (CPH - BOS / EWR).

That could clear the way for considerably larger A321LR's.

Image

https://www.privatair.com/news/23032016-1025/privatair-commenced-daily-nonstop-flights-between-copenhagen-and-boston-behalf

Well. They had the plane leased because of the the SVG IAH all biz plan gone south when the oil industry went belly up. So they had to redeploy it somewhere with 20/40 biz/eco but got rid of it as soon as the contract with privat air expired. But I agree with the A 321LR would be a complete different story.


SAS flew SVG-IAH in a pure C class first until the oil business went belly up. Then the Aircraft was reconfigured and flew CPH- EWR/BOS. I hope that the A321LR can be a game changer for thinner routes like the B757 turned out to be.

Could OSL-ORD maybe be a stretch too far for this aircraft?
 
YIMBY
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Fri May 25, 2018 6:35 am

Kikko19 wrote:
With good discounts I would see 339, they could match the A359 where less loads are expected. Much cheaper. Also Finnair has 330 and will keep them. Of course A 321LR should come as well. They have to decide at least 2 years before any delivery. So a source told me


If they can get A339 much cheaper than A359, they could switch all their WB orders to that (or even take very cheap A333's). Most of their long-haul flights are not-that-long TATL flights where they do not need the range of A350. If they do have any route that A339 may not reach (and JV is unnegotiable), order A338 that will certainly fly there.

If capacity is issue, add frequency and origins. SAS caters mostly for Scandinavian business travelers that appreciate frequency and direct flights.
 
Bostrom
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Sat May 26, 2018 7:50 am

keesje wrote:
A 787-8/9 fleet to supplement A350's doesn't seem a bad idea. No doubt airbus will go in with the A330NEO.

I wouldn't automatically assume this goes Airbus. The 787 seems a suitable aircraft for the reuirement & Boeing probably wants to invest displacing the A330's at SAS.


Boeing are probably not very happy about losing SAS as a 737 customer. But why would SAS order 787s when they have an all-Airbus wide body fleet and are trying to convert their NB fleet to an all A32X one?
 
MartijnNL
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Sat May 26, 2018 1:04 pm

AA737-823 wrote:
Uh, no.
It's taken SAS several decades to come around to the obvious logic that a small mixed fleet of 737s and A320s made no sense.

Uh, no. ;)

SAS currently operate more than sixty Boeing 737's and around forty Airbus A319/A320/A321's. They are not as big as American Airlines, but I wouldn't call one hundred aircraft a small fleet.

SAS are adding Airbus aircraft and retiring Boeing aircraft. But that doesn't mean that making that decision took them decades. It is just a continuing proces. Older aircraft get replaced by newer ones.

Twenty years ago SAS operated almost one hundred MD-80 type variants. And before that many DC-9's. As far as I know they have always operated different aircraft types alongside each other. And they will continue to do so.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Sat May 26, 2018 1:24 pm

keesje wrote:
A 787-8/9 fleet to supplement A350's doesn't seem a bad idea.

What do you propose? SAS ordered eight A350's. Why should they buy the 787 also? And how many of them? Six or maybe more? I am not an aviation expert, but this sounds far from logical.

Some forum members even complain about the current mix of 60+ Boeing 737's and 40 A319/A320/A321's, citing lack of commonality. Why would less than ten A350's and less than ten B787's be a good idea?

Maybe if Boeing starts to offer the 787 without dimmable windows? Or at least without the crew override option. ;)
 
MartijnNL
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Re: SAS looking for new long haul plane

Sat May 26, 2018 1:42 pm

American 767 wrote:
It sounds like SAS wants to stick with Airbus for its long haul fleet. Are they looking at the 787? I think that the 787-8 and/or -9 would be the right sized airplane for them, for long haul flights to Asia and the West Coast of the USA. They could consider opening new routes to the South Pacific with the 787, if there is enough demand, although I doubt they are interested in flying to Australia or New Zealand.

Ben, I believe you are a highly respected member of airliners.net and you have contributed to these forums for many years. But why should the 787 be the right sized airplane for SAS? Why shouldn't the A330 or A350 be just as right sized? And why should SAS want to start routes to the South Pacific?

For some reason the words 787 and new routes always go together. While in the real world the 787 flies mostly to places that earlier had service with older aircraft types. I think the 3-3-3 seating of the 787 is unpleasant for economy class passenger. Even cabin crew tell me they wouldn't want to be a passenger themselves on the 787. They prefer the A330 or the A350. That last one also has 3-3-3 seating, but with a wider fuselage.

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