binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:15 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
My mom will not land at BOM at midnight anymore - period She has earned that right through her hard work and enjoys her J ticket to BOM on UA or AI that arrive at decent times. ”


(Just out of curiosity )
Your family no longer take Skyteam? Or you have good amount of miles in *A too?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
vadodara
Posts: 942
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:39 pm

Absolutely. The concept that all Indians are cheap and will put up with anything to pay a few bucks less needs to stop. Granted a majority of the passenger care most about the fares, but for a huge country with 20-25% YoY growth, even a mere 5% of the pax is a lot.


The resident Indian carriers, AI and Jet, are as much to blame for this.

Back on topic, Delta don't really need 2 stop connecting people. The JFK/EWR-BOM non-stop route is served by United & AI and both have sub-par product. Delta should be able to take some J pax from them, in addition to the Jet FF. Add Delta FF from US side and connecting pax from either side, they shouldn't have problem with a decent load.


Yes, and DL has a growing but limited hub at JFK. Lot of their short-haul actually flies out of LGA. The quirk of 2 airports, either for NY or DC, wont go away.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:52 pm

binayak wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
My mom will not land at BOM at midnight anymore - period She has earned that right through her hard work and enjoys her J ticket to BOM on UA or AI that arrive at decent times. ”


(Just out of curiosity )
Your family no longer take Skyteam? Or you have good amount of miles in *A too?


She mostly flies AI paid. Sometimes she will use my miles and fly 9W's 9am BOM-LHR flight and connect to DL's 5pm LHR-JFK flight.
It all depends on what the paid fare situation is or if we need to get her to BOM on miles so she can buy a cheaper BOM-JFK-BOM J roundtrip. I use my miles on sky team to India because I don't really care what time I arrive. That said, I do like leaving on 9W 9am BOM-LHR flight.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2826
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:30 pm

If Delta really wants to capture this market, I would wonder if it would be in its best interest to have an early morning departure from JFK, with a flight that originates in ATL around 11:30 AM, arriving at JFK at 2:00 AM, then pushing back at JFK for BOM at about 4:45 AM with arrival into BOM around 5 AM, to make 9W's morning bank. The real issue would be the return flight---this would require the aircraft to sit all day at BOM for a midnight departure from BOM to make it to JFK for the morning bank there, continuing on to ATL after that. While one would sit on the ground all day, the idea is to capture connections rather than have it purely as O&D.

Right now, the only option on SkyTeam to arrive early in the morning is to take DL 402 and then layover at HR for 7 hours for a 9W red-eye.

One interesting wrinkle I should note: in Europe, Helsinki to Delhi is within narrowbody range. If Finnair were to order or lease some A321neo, it could go double-daily HEL-DEL. It could even be reached with the sharkeleted A321ceo if there is a long-haul business class product and then an economy section (such as something like J20Y150.) DEL-HEL is 2825 nmi. It might be tight on the A321ceo, but it is definitely doable with the A321neo.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:31 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
If Delta really wants to capture this market, I would wonder if it would be in its best interest to have an early morning departure from JFK, with a flight that originates in ATL around 11:30 AM, arriving at JFK at 2:00 AM, then pushing back at JFK for BOM at about 4:45 AM with arrival into BOM around 5 AM, to make 9W's morning bank. The real issue would be the return flight---this would require the aircraft to sit all day at BOM for a midnight departure from BOM to make it to JFK for the morning bank there, continuing on to ATL after that. While one would sit on the ground all day, the idea is to capture connections rather than have it purely as O&D.

You mean leave ATL at 11:30 PM and not AM.
Why does the aircraft have to sit all day at BOM. The return flight can leave at around 8 AM from BOM and can make it back to JFK around 1 PM and can still be able to offer connections to the rest of the country.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2826
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:50 am

DTWLAX wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
If Delta really wants to capture this market, I would wonder if it would be in its best interest to have an early morning departure from JFK, with a flight that originates in ATL around 11:30 AM, arriving at JFK at 2:00 AM, then pushing back at JFK for BOM at about 4:45 AM with arrival into BOM around 5 AM, to make 9W's morning bank. The real issue would be the return flight---this would require the aircraft to sit all day at BOM for a midnight departure from BOM to make it to JFK for the morning bank there, continuing on to ATL after that. While one would sit on the ground all day, the idea is to capture connections rather than have it purely as O&D.

You mean leave ATL at 11:30 PM and not AM.
Why does the aircraft have to sit all day at BOM. The return flight can leave at around 8 AM from BOM and can make it back to JFK around 1 PM and can still be able to offer connections to the rest of the country.


I did mean PM...my bad. However, the reason why I'd leave the plane on the ground all day is to catch 9W feed from all over India and do red-eye back to North America. Since one likely needs two complete crews for the JFK-BOM flight, one can have the same crew fly the plane back to the Americas. By rule, the crew needs 11 hours of rest time, and with a midnight departure from BOM, one has given the crew at least 12 hours. Whether that's enough for the pilots as per the union contract is something I don't know.
 
Prost
Posts: 2419
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:26 pm

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/ne ... yptr=yahoo

This article quotes Joe Esposito, Senior Vice President of network planning at Delta:

RDU could benefit from a new flight currently in its planning stages. In May, Delta announced it would start serving Mumbai, and it’s in the process of deciding whether to offer the flight out of New York’s John F. Kennedy or Atlanta’s Hartfield-Jackson. Should Atlanta be the pick – and it “probably” will – that’s a “great investment” for the entire Southeast, including RDU.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 833
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:37 pm

 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1376
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:54 pm

Not at all surprised. ATL and the SE are hot right now. I thought for sure JFK would have been the front runner.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 833
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:31 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Not at all surprised. ATL and the SE are hot right now. I thought for sure JFK would have been the front runner.


I’m *shocked* it’s not DTW. Just kidding... :lol:
 
DL777200LR
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:50 pm

flyfresno wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2018/07/27/atlantas-hartsfield-jackson-the-frontrunner-for.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

BAM! ATL the front runner!


I won’t believe anything until it’s actually official honestly. I don’t see why ATL would work better than JFK. No one in the New York metro area will connect through ATL when they can just go to EWR considering the size of New York's Indian population. I guess ATL must be giving some sort of incentives if that’s the case. We will just have to wait and see, the announcement shouldn’t be more than a few months away.
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
BenflysDTW
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:39 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:19 pm

We also haven’t seen any dates for MSP-ICN or SEA-KIX have we? Has Delta ever had so many routes without a start date?
 
User avatar
Clipper101
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:20 pm

flyfresno wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2018/07/27/atlantas-hartsfield-jackson-the-frontrunner-for.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

BAM! ATL the front runner!


I hope someday they would commit both or even more cities, that should shake things a bit more on this market between US & India. I do not know their intentions on the A350-900 fleet, but taking some future deliveries as -900ULR or in-house modifying few in-service -900s to -900ULR standard would be very much suitable to satisfy their aim of having such service competitively available as the article in the link suggests.
 
Lootess
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:58 am

I’ve been saying ATL is the favorite. We all know DL wants to also chip away at QR’s ATL-DOH flight and this is the right time to do it.

I have no doubt that DL will take deliveries of A359ULRs someday for global expansion. Although they have the lift with the 777LRs now, and would be used again on ATL-BOM.
 
Atlwarrior
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:21 am

Lootess wrote:
I’ve been saying ATL is the favorite. We all know DL wants to also chip away at QR’s ATL-DOH flight and this is the right time to do it.

I have no doubt that DL will take deliveries of A359ULRs someday for global expansion. Although they have the lift with the 777LRs now, and would be used again on ATL-BOM.


I wonder how the QR ATL is performing and how many pax connects to India through Doha. My early morning Uber pax are mostly Indian business people from Atlanta’s affluent Alpharetta going to the airport. Although they are not traveling to India that early in the morning. ATL does have a huge Indian population that I would imagine use QR and TK from Atlanta to India.
 
sabby
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:27 am

I will wait till they publish the schedule. While it will be easier to fill the plane regularly from Atlanta, it is 600+ nm longer than JFK-BOM. I'm not sure Delta can get enough high yield premium pax to cover the cost of ULH from ATL as opposed to JFK.
 
sand26391
Posts: 536
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:26 pm

Why not DTW? ;)
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:38 pm

sabby wrote:
I will wait till they publish the schedule. While it will be easier to fill the plane regularly from Atlanta, it is 600+ nm longer than JFK-BOM. I'm not sure Delta can get enough high yield premium pax to cover the cost of ULH from ATL as opposed to JFK.


Don't even think JFK will be too high yielding for them. With already 2x daily flights competition will be immense. DL won't even be able to charge a premium for that service.
This route if not anything else, will hurt a competitor and prevent that one from growing in US . Plus add to that the fact that it's the only south US -India route.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
sabby
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:24 pm

binayak wrote:
sabby wrote:
I will wait till they publish the schedule. While it will be easier to fill the plane regularly from Atlanta, it is 600+ nm longer than JFK-BOM. I'm not sure Delta can get enough high yield premium pax to cover the cost of ULH from ATL as opposed to JFK.


Don't even think JFK will be too high yielding for them. With already 2x daily flights competition will be immense. DL won't even be able to charge a premium for that service.
This route if not anything else, will hurt a competitor and prevent that one from growing in US . Plus add to that the fact that it's the only south US -India route.


I think NYC catchment area is large enough to support another non-stop, especially from a different airport. Not to mention, JFK is also a Delta hub and the large number of Banks can easily fill higher yield J cabin. To be honest, United and AI do not really enjoy good reputation regarding their hard and soft products, DL could definitely snatch some non Star FF pax away. I think DL should try with 3 and 4 weekly flights each from JFK and ATL using the same pair of aircrafts and make a decision after a couple of months.
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:18 pm

sabby wrote:
binayak wrote:
Don't even think JFK will be too high yielding for them. With already 2x daily flights competition will be immense. DL won't even be able to charge a premium for that service.
This route if not anything else, will hurt a competitor and prevent that one from growing in US . Plus add to that the fact that it's the only south US -India route.


I think NYC catchment area is large enough to support another non-stop, especially from a different airport. Not to mention, JFK is also a Delta hub and the large number of Banks can easily fill higher yield J cabin. To be honest, United and AI do not really enjoy good reputation regarding their hard and soft products, DL could definitely snatch some non Star FF pax away. I think DL should try with 3 and 4 weekly flights each from JFK and ATL using the same pair of aircrafts and make a decision after a couple of months.



Yes even that seems to be good idea. Still looking at the fact that last time after cancelling their JFK flight and starting ATL, and this being more likely ATL, somehow for them ATL seems to be better point.
Perhaps after 2-3 years we can see JFK BOM by DL /9W also.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
gsg013
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:40 pm

With the Indian population of the NYC my first guess would have been JFK but with the ammount of competition from JFK I could see why a flight from ATL would be most competitive. Think of the high price J pax that could connect from the entire south east region within a 1.5 hr flight radius of ATL and another wild card are all the students in the US that need to get back and forth between the US and india.
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:33 pm

Does anyone have the PDEW b/w DFW, IAH, MIA to BOM? I feel these will be the majority traffic in this flight.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
Lootess
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:05 am

Once again the ATL naysayers are forgetting the competition with QR angle. Squeezing their connecting opportunities is a factor. Having Jet Airways on the other end is drastically going to help.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5825
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:48 pm

binayak wrote:
Does anyone have the PDEW b/w DFW, IAH, MIA to BOM? I feel these will be the majority traffic in this flight.


DFW and IAH to India are both larger local markets to India than ATL is. MIA is smaller.

IAH-BOM has a huge premium demand, but its Star Alliance loyal.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:13 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
IAH-BOM has a huge premium demand, but its Star Alliance loyal.


IF the premium pax are BOM based then they will be 9W FFs too i e they'll prefer flying DL too.
Well how is the premium in IAH BOM compared to markets like ORD, SFO?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5825
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:21 pm

binayak wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
IAH-BOM has a huge premium demand, but its Star Alliance loyal.


IF the premium pax are BOM based then they will be 9W FFs too i e they'll prefer flying DL too.
Well how is the premium in IAH BOM compared to markets like ORD, SFO?


SFO's premium demand is mainly centered on the tech centers of India of which BOM isnt one. That said, SFO-BOM is still a massive market.

IAH-BOM is a huge oil route and thats what creates the J demand. Most of the demand is on the IAH side not the BOM side so that makes a big difference.

IAH/DFW-India are markets that are both pushing 300 PDEW. IAH just has a bigger J component.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
dmorbust
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:17 pm

Looks like DL got the jet fuel tax relief they wanted that should save them ~$40 million per year: https://news.delta.com/delta-ceo-ed-bas ... fuel-taxes

Watch if they announce ATL-BOM soon as a result.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3193
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:56 am

ap305 wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?


The 350 will be restricted to 32-33t payload on the worst headwinds from BOM but will burn a lot less fuel. The economics may favor the a350 but there could be market share being sacrificed.


How is market share sacrificed when the A350 seats more passengers then the 77L.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12406
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: ATL-BOM, JFK-BOM revealed to be DL's chosen routes of US-India service

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:50 am

Irehdna wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Didn't DL fly JFK-BOM in the mid-2000's using the 777LR?


Yeah from around 1 yr ('07-08) DL did JFK-BOM nonstop. It was one of their first 77L flights. When DL entered, AI had JFK-DEL nonstop (77L) and CO had EWR-DEL (77E). However, within 3-6 months of launching this route, AI started JFK-BOM and CO started EWR-BOM. CO had the benefit of a representative diaspora population in NJ, along with a strong hub. AI survived on government subsidies and were able to undercut DL on pricing.

This forced DL to move to ATL-BOM for one year, before nonstop BOM was cancelled all together in 2009.

They actually started JFK-BOM nonstop in November 2006 with a 77E.

The 77E struggled on the westbound during the winter, and several had to stop in MAN, even after MTOW was upped to 656Klbs.

77L obviously took care of that, but the competition was relentless and the nonstop was moved to ATL. Less than a year later, they scheduled it back at JFK, but never made the shift, as the flight was instead cancelled in favor of AMS-BOM.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12406
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:52 am

rbavfan wrote:
ap305 wrote:
The 350 will be restricted to 32-33t payload on the worst headwinds from BOM but will burn a lot less fuel. The economics may favor the a350 but there could be market share being sacrificed.

How is market share sacrificed when the A350 seats more passengers then the 77L.

When the word "restricted" precedes the word "payload," you should read that as "potential seating restriction." ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ap305
Posts: 1501
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 4:03 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:58 am

rbavfan wrote:
ap305 wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?


The 350 will be restricted to 32-33t payload on the worst headwinds from BOM but will burn a lot less fuel. The economics may favor the a350 but there could be market share being sacrificed.


How is market share sacrificed when the A350 seats more passengers then the 77L.


Some amount of belly cargo will be left behind...
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12406
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:01 am

flyfresno wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2018/07/27/atlantas-hartsfield-jackson-the-frontrunner-for.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
BAM! ATL the front runner!

I wouldn't get too excited.... could just as easily be a direct ATL-JFK-BOM that this person is "selling" as the airport "having service to ___"

Something that many airlines unfortunately and rather disingenuously do.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Lootess
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:37 am

LAX772LR wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2018/07/27/atlantas-hartsfield-jackson-the-frontrunner-for.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
BAM! ATL the front runner!

I wouldn't get too excited.... could just as easily be a direct ATL-JFK-BOM that this person is "selling" as the airport "having service to ___"

Something that many airlines unfortunately and rather disingenuously do.


No, non-stop ATL-BOM is the frontrunner. Putting a little chokehold on Turkish and Qatar is part of the equation.
 
DeSpringbokke
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:27 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:23 am

While it is a minor issue, ATL-BOM nonstop would be easier in fleet utilisation. Should it be ATL-BOM, the 77L fleet will be exclusively ATL based, except for the ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL rotation. Notice ATL-NRT was originally going to the A350, but now its back to the 77L. I expect at this time next year, the 77L fleet will be flying ATL-JNB/PVG/NRT/BOM and the rotation of ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL. I suspect the margins aren't on issue on ATL-NRT in regards to fuel efficiency. The ATL-ICN A350 rotation works as it requires just three aircraft on DTW-ICN-ATL-ICN-DTW, whereas it would require four aircraft with DTW-NRT-ATL-NRT-DTW. Delta's new DTW-PVG-LAX-HND-LAX-PVG-DTW is a much better use of aircraft, especially for a competitive route whereas there is no competition whatsoever on ATL-NRT. I am very sceptical that Delta would contemplate ATL-HND as I don't think any airline would allocate a HND slot to the SE.
 
Insertnamehere
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:44 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:38 am

As someone who travels a few times a year to India (mainly Bangalore but also Mumbai) I hope they will add JFK instead of ATL but I guess that is out the window. The UA flight is off the table due to my lack of Star membership (used to be United Gold but not anymore) not to mention the hard product on UA is depressing to have for 15 hours until Polaris actually gets rolled out more, I usually fly Qatar because of the nice timings back and the great product but now that I have switched over to Skyteam I was hoping they would add BOM. I will still stick with them but I guess I will have to connect through Paris.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1653
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:51 am

Lootess wrote:
I’ve been saying ATL is the favorite. We all know DL wants to also chip away at QR’s ATL-DOH flight and this is the right time to do it.

I have no doubt that DL will take deliveries of A359ULRs someday for global expansion. Although they have the lift with the 777LRs now, and would be used again on ATL-BOM.


Why does DL need a ULR? Unless they want to also fly to places like SIN or do something like ATL-SYD, they are unlikely to pick up a ULR.

The 359 should do just fine for what they are flying.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR MAA KTM
 
sabby
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:16 am

Antarius wrote:
Lootess wrote:
I’ve been saying ATL is the favorite. We all know DL wants to also chip away at QR’s ATL-DOH flight and this is the right time to do it.

I have no doubt that DL will take deliveries of A359ULRs someday for global expansion. Although they have the lift with the 777LRs now, and would be used again on ATL-BOM.


Why does DL need a ULR? Unless they want to also fly to places like SIN or do something like ATL-SYD, they are unlikely to pick up a ULR.

The 359 should do just fine for what they are flying.


Should they really need additional range-payload in few years or fuel price rises for the 77L to be less profitable, I'm sure they can convert some of their A359 orders to A350-1000.
 
Lootess
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:33 am

sabby wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Lootess wrote:
I’ve been saying ATL is the favorite. We all know DL wants to also chip away at QR’s ATL-DOH flight and this is the right time to do it.

I have no doubt that DL will take deliveries of A359ULRs someday for global expansion. Although they have the lift with the 777LRs now, and would be used again on ATL-BOM.


Why does DL need a ULR? Unless they want to also fly to places like SIN or do something like ATL-SYD, they are unlikely to pick up a ULR.

The 359 should do just fine for what they are flying.


Should they really need additional range-payload in few years or fuel price rises for the 77L to be less profitable, I'm sure they can convert some of their A359 orders to A350-1000.


Yep, don't forget Ed's last public interview he said "The A350-1000 could be interesting. We’re growing internationally." and "We’re opposed to four-engine aircraft, but we’re not necessarily opposed to a larger A350."

Considering their last 10 A359s on the initial order were also pushed 2-3 years, there is a chance and being realistic, it probably won't be the only order for the A350 either.
 
DeSpringbokke
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:27 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:50 am

Lootess wrote:
sabby wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Why does DL need a ULR? Unless they want to also fly to places like SIN or do something like ATL-SYD, they are unlikely to pick up a ULR.

The 359 should do just fine for what they are flying.


Should they really need additional range-payload in few years or fuel price rises for the 77L to be less profitable, I'm sure they can convert some of their A359 orders to A350-1000.


Yep, don't forget Ed's last public interview he said "The A350-1000 could be interesting. We’re growing internationally." and "We’re opposed to four-engine aircraft, but we’re not necessarily opposed to a larger A350."

Considering their last 10 A359s on the initial order were also pushed 2-3 years, there is a chance and being realistic, it probably won't be the only order for the A350 either.


I have said previously here the A350-1000 was probably the largest aircraft Delta would ever consider. The 777-8X, while perfect for ATL-JNB, does not make sense as a small subfleet. Recalling another thread, I believe the 316 tonne A350-1000 would do better on 280 tonne A350-900 on JNB-ATL. I read elsewhere Airbus plans a small MTOW increase for the A350-1000 to 319 tonnes. This version would be the ideal replacement for the eventual 77L replacement. For routes like LAX-SYD and ATL-JNB, the A350-1000 makes sense. I don't see Delta ordering more than 12 of them, probably just ten. Possible Delta converts the deferred ten to A350-1000s. That's probably the right size for routes that need higher capacity and additional frequency, something Delta has done a good job over the past several years, isn't an option.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:15 am

Insertnamehere wrote:
now that I have switched over to Skyteam I was hoping they would add BOM. I will still stick with them but I guess I will have to connect through Paris.

Or through AMS
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12406
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:45 am

Lootess wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2018/07/27/atlantas-hartsfield-jackson-the-frontrunner-for.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
BAM! ATL the front runner!

I wouldn't get too excited.... could just as easily be a direct ATL-JFK-BOM that this person is "selling" as the airport "having service to ___"

Something that many airlines unfortunately and rather disingenuously do.

No, non-stop ATL-BOM is the frontrunner.

"Font runner" doesn't mean squat, until an actual decision is made.
There's nothing concrete about that.


Antarius wrote:
Lootess wrote:
I have no doubt that DL will take deliveries of A359ULRs someday for global expansion. Although they have the lift with the 777LRs now, and would be used again on ATL-BOM.

Why does DL need a ULR? Unless they want to also fly to places like SIN or do something like ATL-SYD, they are unlikely to pick up a ULR.

And even then, they're STILL unlikely to pick one up, as the -ULR can't do anything that a 280T standard A359 couldn't also perform-- unless significant amounts of payload is swapped for fuel tankage.

That only works in super-high yielding markets (which the likes of ATL-SYD almost certainly would not be).
That's also the reason only one airline (SQ) has ever ordered the -ULR as it's currently offered.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:10 pm

Sounds like Delta knows returning to India will be loss-making venture.

Delta will announce details of its revived service to Mumbai in the coming months, including whether service will fly from New York or Atlanta. Delta had pulled service from India about a decade ago because the service was not economically viable, but Bastian said the carrier's budding partnership with Jet Airways and recent agreements between the U.S. and each Qatar and the United Arab Emirates have changed that landscape. Even so, it's not entirely a financial decision, he said. "It's based on a larger strategy. You can't say, 'No one better connects to the world,' when you don't fly to one of the most populous nations in the world."

http://www.businesstravelnews.com/Trans ... Free-Wi-Fi
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Cactusjuba
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:48 pm

janders wrote:
Sounds like Delta knows returning to India will be loss-making venture.

Delta will announce details of its revived service to Mumbai in the coming months, including whether service will fly from New York or Atlanta. Delta had pulled service from India about a decade ago because the service was not economically viable, but Bastian said the carrier's budding partnership with Jet Airways and recent agreements between the U.S. and each Qatar and the United Arab Emirates have changed that landscape. Even so, it's not entirely a financial decision, he said. "It's based on a larger strategy. You can't say, 'No one better connects to the world,' when you don't fly to one of the most populous nations in the world."

http://www.businesstravelnews.com/Trans ... Free-Wi-Fi


No mention of a loss. Just said not "entirely" a financial decision. I understand that as saying, higher margins in the short term can be made on other routes, but the long term strategy is to enter India.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:20 pm

janders wrote:
Sounds like Delta knows returning to India will be loss-making venture.

Delta will announce details of its revived service to Mumbai in the coming months, including whether service will fly from New York or Atlanta. Delta had pulled service from India about a decade ago because the service was not economically viable, but Bastian said the carrier's budding partnership with Jet Airways and recent agreements between the U.S. and each Qatar and the United Arab Emirates have changed that landscape. Even so, it's not entirely a financial decision, he said. "It's based on a larger strategy. You can't say, 'No one better connects to the world,' when you don't fly to one of the most populous nations in the world."

http://www.businesstravelnews.com/Trans ... Free-Wi-Fi


Eh, Delta is too smart to start a route purely for prestige. There's a bunch of routes they don't fly that if you cared about 'no one better connects to the world' you would fly, namely their pull-down in TPAC ceding most to ICN and their KE partnership. Not criticizing that, by the way.

Just my guess is DL thinks they can make money on this route, and if it is ATL-BOM, I think that is very, very likely. If JFK-BOM, it becomes tougher with the present competitiion in that market only getting stronger (AI's new JFK-BOM route they are restarting).
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23731
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:21 pm

Well with fuel prices up 35% so far this year, the economics of such flying is certainly more dubious than it was when first announced.

Still dont understand why DL is dragging out announcing whether ATL or JFK will be the U.S gateway.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:28 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Well with fuel prices up 35% so far this year, the economics of such flying is certainly more dubious than it was when first announced.

Still dont understand why DL is dragging out announcing whether ATL or JFK will be the U.S gateway.


Yeah, I don't understand the secrecy / suspense either.

Gives off the impression that either they don't know yet, or are second guessing this decision.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9581
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:43 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Well with fuel prices up 35% so far this year, the economics of such flying is certainly more dubious than it was when first announced.

Still dont understand why DL is dragging out announcing whether ATL or JFK will be the U.S gateway.


Yeah, I don't understand the secrecy / suspense either.

Gives off the impression that either they don't know yet, or are second guessing this decision.

They'll probably do this:

"Hey, wait a minute, we just had time to read the agreement with UAE and it doesn't do anything at all. Here we thought all our problems were solved with India, but no it literally does nothing. We feel sheepish for saying this was a great deal without even reading it. Well, that one is on us. OK, we are restarting our efforts against the UAE because Qatar Airways (which isn't based in the UAE) has invested in Air Italy (which also isn't based in the UAE) which is in clear violation of the UAE agreement causing us to not be able to fly to India (which also is not part of the UAE)."
 
VTORD
Posts: 530
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:59 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Well with fuel prices up 35% so far this year, the economics of such flying is certainly more dubious than it was when first announced.

Still dont understand why DL is dragging out announcing whether ATL or JFK will be the U.S gateway.


Yeah, I don't understand the secrecy / suspense either.

Gives off the impression that either they don't know yet, or are second guessing this decision.


OR
They have no intention of doing it anyways. ME3 are really only competition to DL at BOM & DEL. there are 8 other Indian cities that ME3 connects 1-stop the US that have exactly diddly squat to do with DL's route map. Heck EK & EY are not even in ATL.

enilria wrote:
They'll probably do this:

"Hey, wait a minute, we just had time to read the agreement with UAE and it doesn't do anything at all. Here we thought all our problems were solved with India, but no it literally does nothing. We feel sheepish for saying this was a great deal without even reading it. Well, that one is on us. OK, we are restarting our efforts against the UAE because Qatar Airways (which isn't based in the UAE) has invested in Air Italy (which also isn't based in the UAE) which is in clear violation of the UAE agreement causing us to not be able to fly to India (which also is not part of the UAE)."

:rotfl:
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17506
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:17 pm

enilria wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Well with fuel prices up 35% so far this year, the economics of such flying is certainly more dubious than it was when first announced.

Still dont understand why DL is dragging out announcing whether ATL or JFK will be the U.S gateway.


Yeah, I don't understand the secrecy / suspense either.

Gives off the impression that either they don't know yet, or are second guessing this decision.

They'll probably do this:

"Hey, wait a minute, we just had time to read the agreement with UAE and it doesn't do anything at all. Here we thought all our problems were solved with India, but no it literally does nothing. We feel sheepish for saying this was a great deal without even reading it. Well, that one is on us. OK, we are restarting our efforts against the UAE because Qatar Airways (which isn't based in the UAE) has invested in Air Italy (which also isn't based in the UAE) which is in clear violation of the UAE agreement causing us to not be able to fly to India (which also is not part of the UAE)."

....and it appears our Chinese partners have done more to decimate our Asian network than the ME3 have done to our one Indian tag
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9581
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:51 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
enilria wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:

Yeah, I don't understand the secrecy / suspense either.

Gives off the impression that either they don't know yet, or are second guessing this decision.

They'll probably do this:

"Hey, wait a minute, we just had time to read the agreement with UAE and it doesn't do anything at all. Here we thought all our problems were solved with India, but no it literally does nothing. We feel sheepish for saying this was a great deal without even reading it. Well, that one is on us. OK, we are restarting our efforts against the UAE because Qatar Airways (which isn't based in the UAE) has invested in Air Italy (which also isn't based in the UAE) which is in clear violation of the UAE agreement causing us to not be able to fly to India (which also is not part of the UAE)."

....and it appears our Chinese partners have done more to decimate our Asian network than the ME3 have done to our one Indian tag

Exactly. They had one 5th freedom flight from AMS to BOM (BTW, they are the same ones telling us that 5th Freedom is a crime) and it didn't make money. Boohoo. What about MNL/JKT/BKK/SIN to your point?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos