sonicruiser
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:41 pm

winginit wrote:
Schedule loads only take place on Saturdays.


Interesting rule, but strange nonetheless. Also, if the flight was already supposed to be loaded last week, why are we waiting for tomorrow?
 
747megatop
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:28 pm

FSDan wrote:
AI proved decisively with SFO-DEL that the ME3 can be beaten when there's enough high value traffic that is willing to pay for the convenience of a nonstop. If DL started JFK-BOM with a daily 359 or 77L against AI's 3x weekly nonstop,

ME3 does not have a solid business case. They can be beaten. *A is the best equipped to compete on the US-India non stop sector (significant chunk of ME3 transfer traffic) with the most number of strong north american international gateway hubs evenly spread out (SFO, DEN, ORD, IAH, IAD, EWR, YYZ and YVR). and 3 airlines (AC,UA and AI).

If you are referring to whether they can be beaten on other sectors (Europe - Australia) they sure can be. We are seeing the initial stages of that with commencement of PER-LHR non stops. Only thing that needs to happen now is for OW to get their act together and QF+BA+CX to team up.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:44 am

So, what's the holdup on "DL service to BOM" in to be announced in "the first part of 2019" and "flown in 2019"?
https://onemileatatime.com/delta-india/
My theories, prioritized:
1. 9W appears to have lost the trust of corporate travel officers in India, so the Indian origin traffic is more speculative. Without 9W delivering corporate contracts to the route, yields are too low. Solution: wait for 9W to rebound?
2. Fleet planning. Does DL have the B77Ls or A359s required to provide the service? Solution: rob Peter to pay Paul?
3. Response by the ME3, esp., QR (currently flies DOH/ATL with a B77W): fare war. Solution: Fly LAX/BOM (to avoid AI SFO/DEL on a B77L and UA EWR/DEL on a B77L)?

Add the risk in all three up... I would not be surprised to see DL's service to India "postponed" (indefinitely).

Or... maybe I simply need to cool my jets. I want to book a GU to BOM, but "the first part of 2019" means 30 June 2019 in DeltaSpeak.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:08 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
So, what's the holdup on "DL service to BOM" in to be announced in "the first part of 2019" and "flown in 2019"?
https://onemileatatime.com/delta-india/
My theories, prioritized:
1. 9W appears to have lost the trust of corporate travel officers in India, so the Indian origin traffic is more speculative. Without 9W delivering corporate contracts to the route, yields are too low. Solution: wait for 9W to rebound?
2. Fleet planning. Does DL have the B77Ls or A359s required to provide the service? Solution: rob Peter to pay Paul?
3. Response by the ME3, esp., QR (currently flies DOH/ATL with a B77W): fare war. Solution: Fly LAX/BOM (to avoid AI SFO/DEL on a B77L and UA EWR/DEL on a B77L)?

Add the risk in all three up... I would not be surprised to see DL's service to India "postponed" (indefinitely).

Or... maybe I simply need to cool my jets. I want to book a GU to BOM, but "the first part of 2019" means 30 June 2019 in DeltaSpeak.


I don’t think 9W has lost many contracts. Their BOM-CDG, AMS, LHR flights seem to do well in J. Also there really aren’t a ton of options out of BOM. I mean business travelers there’s aren’t going to make a beeline to AI and Indigo is a LCC without the perks that 9W can give. I would imagine most corporates think 9W will sort it out. Now why DL is delaying is beyond me. BEfore they announced, the must have done some research. India is doing fine economically as is the US. If anything travel between India and US continues to increase every year (from both ends). Be it JFK or ATL, Delta is going to get a ton of DL FFs to anchor the flight. The ME3 don’t matter to that crowd. With the refreshed 77Ls, Delta will offer a great J and Econ Plus product (before they used to send their oldest planes). DL always had great food on their india flights (imagine that will continue).
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:16 pm

binayak wrote:
I think some here are getting confused a bit. If DL does ATL BOM, they won't need 9W's connections at BOM because in that case the aim will be to link BOM to maximum cities in the US through one stop. 9W FF base at BOM will help DL then.
If DL does JFK BOM then 9W connections will play role as that route will connect 36 cities in India one stop to JFK.
The aim is not to have a 2 stop connection, it's either have all US cities connect to BOM via one stop (ATL) or connect most secondary cities in India one stop to JFK via BOM.
Pax like say ORD -BLR can still continue to take the one stop through EU hubs. So unless your final destination is BOM, be it from whichever city in US you're from, the chances of you getting in this flight are low.

I agree with the theory this is for ATL connections from BOM O&D. Only ATL and DFW connect the USA. Since I am not aware of BOM-DFW, I see potential in this route.

Non stops also spike passenger counts. I can see a multiple if 2.5x to 3 x.

If QR is really flying a significant number at $600, an investigation is required. If just teaser fares, yawn.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:26 pm

I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:20 pm

I have a gut feeling it will be ATL-BOM on A359 starting May or June '19.

Sample summer schedule:

DL184 ATL 16:40 - 19:30+1 BOM A359 D
DL185 BOM 22:00 - 05:10+1 ATL A359 D

ATL-BOM is long, but not long enough to warrant a double-night flight like SFO-DEL AI184.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:42 pm

klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


I hope that proves accurate.

Why didn't QR choose DFW rather ATL? DOH/DFW is well within the range of a fully loaded B77W.
[See klm617's comment below... QR does indeed fly DOH/DFW.]

Perhaps Glen and the team are still sorting out JFK vs. ATL.
Last edited by WPvsMW on Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:47 pm

Irehdna wrote:
I have a gut feeling it will be ATL-BOM on A359 starting May or June '19.

Sample summer schedule:

DL184 ATL 16:40 - 19:30+1 BOM A359 D
DL185 BOM 22:00 - 05:10+1 ATL A359 D

ATL-BOM is long, but not long enough to warrant a double-night flight like SFO-DEL AI184.


If it's ATL-BOM, there's no way it'll be a 359. Even if it's JFK, it'll probably be a 77L rather than a 359.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:48 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


I hope that proves accurate.

Why didn't QR choose DFW rather ATL? DOH/DFW is only 300 sm longer than DOH/ATL, within the B77W's range (westerlies may force a pax/fuel tradeoff in winter months assuming 100% LF, but I doubt that the LF is actually impacted by max fuel). Are OW FFs really connecting through ATL?

Perhaps Glen and the team are still sorting out JFK vs. ATL.




QR flies to both ATL and DFW.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:52 pm

lightsaber wrote:
binayak wrote:
I think some here are getting confused a bit. If DL does ATL BOM, they won't need 9W's connections at BOM because in that case the aim will be to link BOM to maximum cities in the US through one stop. 9W FF base at BOM will help DL then.
If DL does JFK BOM then 9W connections will play role as that route will connect 36 cities in India one stop to JFK.
The aim is not to have a 2 stop connection, it's either have all US cities connect to BOM via one stop (ATL) or connect most secondary cities in India one stop to JFK via BOM.
Pax like say ORD -BLR can still continue to take the one stop through EU hubs. So unless your final destination is BOM, be it from whichever city in US you're from, the chances of you getting in this flight are low.

I agree with the theory this is for ATL connections from BOM O&D. Only ATL and DFW connect the USA. Since I am not aware of BOM-DFW, I see potential in this route.

Non stops also spike passenger counts. I can see a multiple if 2.5x to 3 x.

If QR is really flying a significant number at $600, an investigation is required. If just teaser fares, yawn.

Lightsaber


If that is the case they why they will fly ATL-BOM then surely it will fail again. If I live in Atlanta and QR can take me to India for half as much with one stop they is no way I'm flying a Delta nonstop at their premium fare.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:03 pm

FSDan wrote:
If it's ATL-BOM, there's no way it'll be a 359. Even if it's JFK, it'll probably be a 77L rather than a 359.
I don't disagree, but PR flys the 359 from MNL-JFK and it is about the same distance as ATL-BOM. Seat count is similar too.
 
winginit
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:16 pm

klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


I literally posted that exact date in this thread a page or two back, so I’m assuming your source is me.

We’ll get an announcement week after next if not sooner. Flight will be launched in 2019.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:34 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I have been told by a credible source that and announcement is forthcoming by March 31st


I literally posted that exact date in this thread a page or two back, so I’m assuming your source is me.

We’ll get an announcement week after next if not sooner. Flight will be launched in 2019.


You are the source I am referring to. While I respect you and your knowledge I know you can't stand me but that's OK I can live with that reality. One thing that mature adults do is respect the point of view of others even if they are not the same as our own. So while you may disagree with what I post I still respect your knowledge and point of view without judgment.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:11 am

klm617 wrote:
You are the source I am referring to. While I respect you and your knowledge I know you can't stand me but that's OK I can live with that reality. One thing that mature adults do is respect the point of view of others even if they are not the same as our own. So while you may disagree with what I post I still respect your knowledge and point of view without judgment.


I take no issue with your points of view. I take issue with the fact that you frequently post falsehoods on this forum and make claims without any facts to back them.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:24 pm

Irehdna wrote:
I have a gut feeling it will be ATL-BOM on A359 starting May or June '19.

Sample summer schedule:

DL184 ATL 16:40 - 19:30+1 BOM A359 D
DL185 BOM 22:00 - 05:10+1 ATL A359 D

ATL-BOM is long, but not long enough to warrant a double-night flight like SFO-DEL AI184.

Does DL fly the A359 into ATL? If not, they will have to rotate the aircraft through a domestic leg like DTW-ATL or LAX-ATL
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 193
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:33 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
I have a gut feeling it will be ATL-BOM on A359 starting May or June '19.

Sample summer schedule:

DL184 ATL 16:40 - 19:30+1 BOM A359 D
DL185 BOM 22:00 - 05:10+1 ATL A359 D

ATL-BOM is long, but not long enough to warrant a double-night flight like SFO-DEL AI184.

Does DL fly the A359 into ATL? If not, they will have to rotate the aircraft through a domestic leg like DTW-ATL or LAX-ATL


Yes it flies on ATL-ICN.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:58 pm

How is the flight going to start in 2019? Delta gives more than six months for advanced bookings of new domestic flights. See the new BOS-DCA as an example. They announced it in 2018 but doesn't start until August 2019. You need to allow a lot of time for marketing the flight. I suspect advanced bookings will be very poor if they try and start in 2019. But we've been hearing "very soon " for over a year now. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:51 pm

winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
You are the source I am referring to. While I respect you and your knowledge I know you can't stand me but that's OK I can live with that reality. One thing that mature adults do is respect the point of view of others even if they are not the same as our own. So while you may disagree with what I post I still respect your knowledge and point of view without judgment.


I take no issue with your points of view. I take issue with the fact that you frequently post falsehoods on this forum and make claims without any facts to back them.


Which means you have an issue with me and my posts.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:13 pm

Any nonstop US-INdia route will start in Nov/Dec IMHO. Winter peak season starts from mid Dec. Don’t think they would start in Summer as that is Monsoon in BOM. Winter give the route breathing room as there is so much traffic that the flight can get filled even with shorter marketing time
 
winginit
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:30 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
How is the flight going to start in 2019? Delta gives more than six months for advanced bookings of new domestic flights. See the new BOS-DCA as an example. They announced it in 2018 but doesn't start until August 2019. You need to allow a lot of time for marketing the flight. I suspect advanced bookings will be very poor if they try and start in 2019. But we've been hearing "very soon " for over a year now. I'll believe it when I see it.


They've always launched India nonstops in November as you'll see below, but yes a rather quick spool up that I imagine has come down to the ATL/JFK debate and thus the equipment debate.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Any nonstop US-INdia route will start in Nov/Dec IMHO. Winter peak season starts from mid Dec. Don’t think they would start in Summer as that is Monsoon in BOM. Winter give the route breathing room as there is so much traffic that the flight can get filled even with shorter marketing time


Historically this is correct. Brief timeline below of US-India nonstop starting months. The DL trend points to a November 2019 start date for BOM re-launch.

AA ORDDEL: November 2005
DL BOMJFK: November 2006
AI JFKBOM: August 2007
CO BOMEWR: November 2007
AI DELJFK: February 2008
AI DELORD: February 2008
DL BOMATL: November 2008
AI EWRBOM: November 2010

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
klm617 wrote:
You are the source I am referring to. While I respect you and your knowledge I know you can't stand me but that's OK I can live with that reality. One thing that mature adults do is respect the point of view of others even if they are not the same as our own. So while you may disagree with what I post I still respect your knowledge and point of view without judgment.


I take no issue with your points of view. I take issue with the fact that you frequently post falsehoods on this forum and make claims without any facts to back them.


Which means you have an issue with me and my posts.


You admit that you point falsehoods then. Interesting.
Last edited by winginit on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:35 pm

winginit wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
How is the flight going to start in 2019? Delta gives more than six months for advanced bookings of new domestic flights. See the new BOS-DCA as an example. They announced it in 2018 but doesn't start until August 2019. You need to allow a lot of time for marketing the flight. I suspect advanced bookings will be very poor if they try and start in 2019. But we've been hearing "very soon " for over a year now. I'll believe it when I see it.


Seems straight forward no? Load it into the schedule with a first flight in 2019? They've always launched India nonstops in November as you'll see below.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Any nonstop US-INdia route will start in Nov/Dec IMHO. Winter peak season starts from mid Dec. Don’t think they would start in Summer as that is Monsoon in BOM. Winter give the route breathing room as there is so much traffic that the flight can get filled even with shorter marketing time


Historically this is correct. Brief timeline below of US-India nonstop starting months. The DL trend points to a November 2019 start date for BOM re-launch.

AA ORDDEL: November 2005
DL BOMJFK: November 2006
AI JFKBOM: August 2007
CO BOMEWR: November 2007
AI DELJFK: February 2008
AI DELORD: February 2008
DL BOMATL: November 2008
AI EWRBOM: November 2010


Perhaps consider starting in October. Diwali is October 27, 2019.
 
winginit
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:24 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
So, what's the holdup on "DL service to BOM" in to be announced in "the first part of 2019" and "flown in 2019"?
https://onemileatatime.com/delta-india/
My theories, prioritized:
1. 9W appears to have lost the trust of corporate travel officers in India, so the Indian origin traffic is more speculative. Without 9W delivering corporate contracts to the route, yields are too low. Solution: wait for 9W to rebound?
2. Fleet planning. Does DL have the B77Ls or A359s required to provide the service? Solution: rob Peter to pay Paul?
3. Response by the ME3, esp., QR (currently flies DOH/ATL with a B77W): fare war. Solution: Fly LAX/BOM (to avoid AI SFO/DEL on a B77L and UA EWR/DEL on a B77L)?

Add the risk in all three up... I would not be surprised to see DL's service to India "postponed" (indefinitely).

Or... maybe I simply need to cool my jets. I want to book a GU to BOM, but "the first part of 2019" means 30 June 2019 in DeltaSpeak.


Some interesting developments today per a contact at BOM airport that will likely have me eating my previous posts in this thread:

- Announcement of service to commence in November 2019 had been imminent, with local plans having been made to rev up communication no later than next week

- Outstanding item had been origin and thus equipment type

However, as of this week everything has been put on hold to a degree that implies an announcement is no longer imminent. Implied reason for delay is the financial predicament of Jet Airways, but that’s speculative.

Quite embarrassing for Delta if this ends up being delayed indefinitely, and kudos to users who had pointed out that this would be a likely outcome.

I’ll confess I’ve completely flip-flopped here given this news, and now strongly doubt we’ll see DL nonstop service to BOM in 2019. I do think if that’s the case that we’ll see it in 2020. It would simply be too big a retraction for DL to not serve the market at all having claimed questionable victory over the ME3 with India as the focal point of their points against their practices.
 
klm617
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:31 pm

winginit wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
So, what's the holdup on "DL service to BOM" in to be announced in "the first part of 2019" and "flown in 2019"?
https://onemileatatime.com/delta-india/
My theories, prioritized:
1. 9W appears to have lost the trust of corporate travel officers in India, so the Indian origin traffic is more speculative. Without 9W delivering corporate contracts to the route, yields are too low. Solution: wait for 9W to rebound?
2. Fleet planning. Does DL have the B77Ls or A359s required to provide the service? Solution: rob Peter to pay Paul?
3. Response by the ME3, esp., QR (currently flies DOH/ATL with a B77W): fare war. Solution: Fly LAX/BOM (to avoid AI SFO/DEL on a B77L and UA EWR/DEL on a B77L)?

Add the risk in all three up... I would not be surprised to see DL's service to India "postponed" (indefinitely).

Or... maybe I simply need to cool my jets. I want to book a GU to BOM, but "the first part of 2019" means 30 June 2019 in DeltaSpeak.


Some interesting developments today per a contact at BOM airport that will likely have me eating my previous posts in this thread:

- Announcement of service to commence in November 2019 had been imminent, with local plans having been made to rev up communication no later than next week

- Outstanding item had been origin and thus equipment type

However, as of this week everything has been put on hold to a degree that implies an announcement is no longer imminent. Implied reason for delay is the financial predicament of Jet Airways, but that’s speculative.

Quite embarrassing for Delta if this ends up being delayed indefinitely, and kudos to users who had pointed out that this would be a likely outcome.

I’ll confess I’ve completely flip-flopped here given this news, and now strongly doubt we’ll see DL nonstop service to BOM in 2019. I do think if that’s the case that we’ll see it in 2020. It would simply be too big a retraction for DL to not serve the market at all having claimed questionable victory over the ME3 with India as the focal point of their points against their practices.


I don't think it's embarrassing at all for Delta. I think everyone should know by now that what ever Delta puts out there is for the most part just marketing purposes. Everything at the point that ED says I take with a grain of salt. He says what ever he needs to at any given moment just to achieve a desired result it's the way big businesses are run today. The dynamic of the ME3 verses the US3 has not changed one bit expect for the current administration has some how put the brakes on their expansion into the USA as a favor to the US airlines.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2882
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:39 pm

klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
So, what's the holdup on "DL service to BOM" in to be announced in "the first part of 2019" and "flown in 2019"?
https://onemileatatime.com/delta-india/
My theories, prioritized:
1. 9W appears to have lost the trust of corporate travel officers in India, so the Indian origin traffic is more speculative. Without 9W delivering corporate contracts to the route, yields are too low. Solution: wait for 9W to rebound?
2. Fleet planning. Does DL have the B77Ls or A359s required to provide the service? Solution: rob Peter to pay Paul?
3. Response by the ME3, esp., QR (currently flies DOH/ATL with a B77W): fare war. Solution: Fly LAX/BOM (to avoid AI SFO/DEL on a B77L and UA EWR/DEL on a B77L)?

Add the risk in all three up... I would not be surprised to see DL's service to India "postponed" (indefinitely).

Or... maybe I simply need to cool my jets. I want to book a GU to BOM, but "the first part of 2019" means 30 June 2019 in DeltaSpeak.


Some interesting developments today per a contact at BOM airport that will likely have me eating my previous posts in this thread:

- Announcement of service to commence in November 2019 had been imminent, with local plans having been made to rev up communication no later than next week

- Outstanding item had been origin and thus equipment type

However, as of this week everything has been put on hold to a degree that implies an announcement is no longer imminent. Implied reason for delay is the financial predicament of Jet Airways, but that’s speculative.

Quite embarrassing for Delta if this ends up being delayed indefinitely, and kudos to users who had pointed out that this would be a likely outcome.

I’ll confess I’ve completely flip-flopped here given this news, and now strongly doubt we’ll see DL nonstop service to BOM in 2019. I do think if that’s the case that we’ll see it in 2020. It would simply be too big a retraction for DL to not serve the market at all having claimed questionable victory over the ME3 with India as the focal point of their points against their practices.


I don't think it's embarrassing at all for Delta. I think everyone should know by now that what ever Delta puts out there is for the most part just marketing purposes. Everything at the point that ED says I take with a grain of salt. He says what ever he needs to at any given moment just to achieve a desired result it's the way big businesses are run today. The dynamic of the ME3 verses the US3 has not changed one bit expect for the current administration has some how put the brakes on their expansion into the USA as a favor to the US airlines.


I agree, not quite sure how a delay in starting a route equates into 'embarrassment' .
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 537
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:47 pm

Irehdna wrote:
I have a gut feeling it will be ATL-BOM on A359 starting May or June '19.

Sample summer schedule:

DL184 ATL 16:40 - 19:30+1 BOM A359 D
DL185 BOM 22:00 - 05:10+1 ATL A359 D

ATL-BOM is long, but not long enough to warrant a double-night flight like SFO-DEL AI184.


Double night seems to be the way to go.

UA's EWR-BOM/DEL flights are this way as well.
 
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Irehdna
Posts: 388
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:04 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
I have a gut feeling it will be ATL-BOM on A359 starting May or June '19.

Sample summer schedule:

DL184 ATL 16:40 - 19:30+1 BOM A359 D
DL185 BOM 22:00 - 05:10+1 ATL A359 D

ATL-BOM is long, but not long enough to warrant a double-night flight like SFO-DEL AI184.


Double night seems to be the way to go.

UA's EWR-BOM/DEL flights are this way as well.


No they are not. They are both evening-evening. Double night means leave in the evening, fly eastwards in the night, following day, and following night, before landing the next morning.

AI 173 DEL-SFO and SQ22 SIN-EWR are two examples of double night flights, leaving in the late evening and arriving in the morning "2 days later" (though technically only one calendar day later).

FWIW ORD-DEL is afternoon - evening flight, also not long enough for double night like AI173 and SQ22.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 537
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:02 am

Irehdna wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
I have a gut feeling it will be ATL-BOM on A359 starting May or June '19.

Sample summer schedule:

DL184 ATL 16:40 - 19:30+1 BOM A359 D
DL185 BOM 22:00 - 05:10+1 ATL A359 D

ATL-BOM is long, but not long enough to warrant a double-night flight like SFO-DEL AI184.


Double night seems to be the way to go.

UA's EWR-BOM/DEL flights are this way as well.


No they are not. They are both evening-evening. Double night means leave in the evening, fly eastwards in the night, following day, and following night, before landing the next morning.

AI 173 DEL-SFO and SQ22 SIN-EWR are two examples of double night flights, leaving in the late evening and arriving in the morning "2 days later" (though technically only one calendar day later).

FWIW ORD-DEL is afternoon - evening flight, also not long enough for double night like AI173 and SQ22.


Ok, misunderstood. Took it to mean night-flights on both ends.
 
VTORD
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:49 am

winginit wrote:
However, as of this week everything has been put on hold to a degree that implies an announcement is no longer imminent. Implied reason for delay is the financial predicament of Jet Airways, but that’s speculative.


9W's financial health (or actually survival itself) was always going to be a key point for DL to launch a non-stop.
Also, with the new rumor floating around about UA/EY, IF (and it's a big if at this point) it is true then it would really be a complicated relationship. EY having a stake in an airline that is partnering with Delta while forming another code share with DL's US based rival who already has a presence in a market DL is (potentially) planning to start.
 
vulindlela744
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 3:03 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:24 am

What is happening with the new nonstop on Delta to Mumbai? Anyone heard anything? Start date? From which city?
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:03 pm

jumbojet wrote:
klm617 wrote:
winginit wrote:

Some interesting developments today per a contact at BOM airport that will likely have me eating my previous posts in this thread:

- Announcement of service to commence in November 2019 had been imminent, with local plans having been made to rev up communication no later than next week

- Outstanding item had been origin and thus equipment type

However, as of this week everything has been put on hold to a degree that implies an announcement is no longer imminent. Implied reason for delay is the financial predicament of Jet Airways, but that’s speculative.

Quite embarrassing for Delta if this ends up being delayed indefinitely, and kudos to users who had pointed out that this would be a likely outcome.

I’ll confess I’ve completely flip-flopped here given this news, and now strongly doubt we’ll see DL nonstop service to BOM in 2019. I do think if that’s the case that we’ll see it in 2020. It would simply be too big a retraction for DL to not serve the market at all having claimed questionable victory over the ME3 with India as the focal point of their points against their practices.


I don't think it's embarrassing at all for Delta. I think everyone should know by now that what ever Delta puts out there is for the most part just marketing purposes. Everything at the point that ED says I take with a grain of salt. He says what ever he needs to at any given moment just to achieve a desired result it's the way big businesses are run today. The dynamic of the ME3 verses the US3 has not changed one bit expect for the current administration has some how put the brakes on their expansion into the USA as a favor to the US airlines.


I agree, not quite sure how a delay in starting a route equates into 'embarrassment' .


When DL confirms they're simply delaying the route then your post has merit.

Currently there is no announced route and there is no announced delay. This is an embarrassment for DL who right now has egg all over their face.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7098
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:31 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
...This is an embarrassment for DL who right now has egg all over their face.


This whole thread is based on what Ed may have said in town hall meetings. A proverbial egg on the face is always better than eating ULH losses on a low yield US-India non-stop.

I probably repeated several times over the last nine months, there is NO money to be made on this route.

Sure US3 has to increase their share of US-India market, but the problem is with India-EU ST hub connectivity, ONE non-stop is not the solution.

With US-China market softening, very soon we will see $399 RT fares on certain US-India routes with excess capacity.

I hope TATL yield softening is a temporary thing.

9W or KL operating Load restricted MAX/A321LR( or future NMA/XLR) on India-AMS routes is the permanent solution. Everything else is Band-Aid.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:04 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

This whole thread is based on what Ed may have said in town hall meetings.


Ed says a lot of things when he meets with his employees. Most of them come across as "pie in the sky" dreams.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:15 pm

If the delay/suspension of plans to serve BOM does happen (which would make sense to me given the uncertainty surrounding 9W), then I agree that's embarrassing for DL. They announced their intent to serve the market in a silly, politically motivated way well before they had fully worked out the necessary details. It's better to wait to announce routes until you fully know what you are doing, and hopefully they'll learn from this and keep their cards closer to the chest another time.

All that said, I don't have any doubts about DL's original intent to serve the market. Many on here will likely say this whole thing was a political stunt and that DL never planned to fly to BOM again, but I think that's not the case. I think DL hoped/planned to serve the market in cooperation with 9W, put out an incomplete, way-too-early announcement, then watched the foundations crumble at 9W.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
winginit
Posts: 2555
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:57 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
...This is an embarrassment for DL who right now has egg all over their face.


This whole thread is based on what Ed may have said in town hall meetings.


Huh? It isn't though.

Source
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 537
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 pm

winginit wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
...This is an embarrassment for DL who right now has egg all over their face.


This whole thread is based on what Ed may have said in town hall meetings.


Huh? It isn't though.

Source


Thanks for digging this up.

Somewhere along the way this has turned to some people from something that Delta talked about on their website to people thinking it was some rumor that leaked.

Delta wrote that this was their intention. It's not too late to do it in 2019, but this wasn't some rumor.

If Delta's plans changed, or they re-ran the numbers and it doesn't make sense, no problem. But it was fair for people to expect the route to happen, or an announcement that it would not.
 
klm617
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:54 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

This whole thread is based on what Ed may have said in town hall meetings.


Ed says a lot of things when he meets with his employees. Most of them come across as "pie in the sky" dreams.



A.net posts carry more substance than anything Ed say. He is out there to say what investors want to hear whether it's the truth or not.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2147
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:59 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
klm617 wrote:

I don't think it's embarrassing at all for Delta. I think everyone should know by now that what ever Delta puts out there is for the most part just marketing purposes. Everything at the point that ED says I take with a grain of salt. He says what ever he needs to at any given moment just to achieve a desired result it's the way big businesses are run today. The dynamic of the ME3 verses the US3 has not changed one bit expect for the current administration has some how put the brakes on their expansion into the USA as a favor to the US airlines.


I agree, not quite sure how a delay in starting a route equates into 'embarrassment' .


When DL confirms they're simply delaying the route then your post has merit.

Currently there is no announced route and there is no announced delay. This is an embarrassment for DL who right now has egg all over their face.


Lol. DL isn't concerned what some avgeeks on a.net think. They certainly aren't "embarrassed" or "have egg all over their face."
 
StormRider
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:12 pm

FSDan wrote:

If it's ATL-BOM, there's no way it'll be a 359. Even if it's JFK, it'll probably be a 77L rather than a 359.

Due to range/payload constraints or?
 
FSDan
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:46 pm

StormRider wrote:
FSDan wrote:

If it's ATL-BOM, there's no way it'll be a 359. Even if it's JFK, it'll probably be a 77L rather than a 359.

Due to range/payload constraints or?


Right. It's been mentioned on here before that DL won't use their 359s on LAX-SYD due to payload/range concerns. DTW-PVG is the longest route they currently use the 359 on. JFK-BOM is longer than both. I'm sure the 359 could make it on the route, but probably with more blocked seats and/or left cargo than DL would want.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:52 am

jbs2886 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

I agree, not quite sure how a delay in starting a route equates into 'embarrassment' .


When DL confirms they're simply delaying the route then your post has merit.

Currently there is no announced route and there is no announced delay. This is an embarrassment for DL who right now has egg all over their face.


Lol. DL isn't concerned what some avgeeks on a.net think. They certainly aren't "embarrassed" or "have egg all over their face."


The US accepting an agreement not even worth its weight in paper and for no concessions at all from the ME3 is a complete L for Delta. They kicked up a huge mirage of smoke and mirrors for years on end with America first lobbyists, and when they finally got the chance with the most protectionist administration in US history, they still managed to somehow muck it up. Instead of securing a victory against the ME3, their war on subsidies went the other direction, effectively accelerating what they had always feared most: giving more strength to the Gulf carriers and a blank check for unrestricted expansion into the US. This administration has imposed tariffs on almost every ally and started trade wars with China and for Delta to have to effectively get down on its knees and beg the government to sign the most worthless air agreement of all time shows just how weak and emotionally motivated their case was. For Delta, a US airline, under an America first administration, that is an utter and complete failure of epic proportions. Their anti-ME3 campaign backfired big time and has literally exploded in their face. If they can’t get this admin to do anything concrete for them, then there is not a chance of a future admin taking any kind of action against the ME3 and the situation is bleak and utterly hopeless.

For Delta, the open skies crusade has coming to a bitter end, representing little more than a smoking pile of rubble and millions of dollars wasted on a failed and stunningly arrogant lobbying campaign, and with it their aspirations of a global airline empire ruled entirely by Delta and their JV partners crushed and relegated to a dream turned nightmare. After fooling themselves into thinking they actually stopped the ME3, they totally dropped the ball with India big time and fell straight into their own trap. Anything less than a complete success after their loud and brash open skies campaign would've been a clear failure. United is now the envy of Delta, showcasing the deadly combination of neutrality and rational thinking by partnering with Etihad while Delta has successfully managed to burn any and all bridges with the ME3 for a long time.

Delta’s fatal mistake was a self-inflicted wound to rush out a bold press release that was intentionally as vague and fact-free as possible, inspired by the same kind of backwards “shoot first, ask later” thinking that got into Iraq. The lack of any kind of substantive plan whatsoever has directly resulted in having to settle with 9W, an airline under the gun for financial troubles, pulling the rug out from under Delta’s grand and fictitious ambitions to return to India. Aside from being complete snakeoil with no date, no plane, and of course no route in sight, it is clear that the writing was on the wall with a total failure to do any kind of well-intentioned due diligence or market research. Delta will now learn that lesson the hard way as it reaps what it sows. If there is a silver lining to this, it is that Delta’s management will never make such a risible mistake again.
 
klm617
Posts: 4438
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:12 am

sonicruiser wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

When DL confirms they're simply delaying the route then your post has merit.

Currently there is no announced route and there is no announced delay. This is an embarrassment for DL who right now has egg all over their face.


Lol. DL isn't concerned what some avgeeks on a.net think. They certainly aren't "embarrassed" or "have egg all over their face."


The US accepting an agreement not even worth its weight in paper and for no concessions at all from the ME3 is a complete L for Delta. They kicked up a huge mirage of smoke and mirrors for years on end with America first lobbyists, and when they finally got the chance with the most protectionist administration in US history, they still managed to somehow muck it up. Instead of securing a victory against the ME3, their war on subsidies went the other direction, effectively accelerating what they had always feared most: giving more strength to the Gulf carriers and a blank check for unrestricted expansion into the US. This administration has imposed tariffs on almost every ally and started trade wars with China and for Delta to have to effectively get down on its knees and beg the government to sign the most worthless air agreement of all time shows just how weak and emotionally motivated their case was. For Delta, a US airline, under an America first administration, that is an utter and complete failure of epic proportions. Their anti-ME3 campaign backfired big time and has literally exploded in their face. If they can’t get this admin to do anything concrete for them, then there is not a chance of a future admin taking any kind of action against the ME3 and the situation is bleak and utterly hopeless.

For Delta, the open skies crusade has coming to a bitter end, representing little more than a smoking pile of rubble and millions of dollars wasted on a failed and stunningly arrogant lobbying campaign, and with it their aspirations of a global airline empire ruled entirely by Delta and their JV partners crushed and relegated to a dream turned nightmare. After fooling themselves into thinking they actually stopped the ME3, they totally dropped the ball with India big time and fell straight into their own trap. Anything less than a complete success after their loud and brash open skies campaign would've been a clear failure. United is now the envy of Delta, showcasing the deadly combination of neutrality and rational thinking by partnering with Etihad while Delta has successfully managed to burn any and all bridges with the ME3 for a long time.

Delta’s fatal mistake was a self-inflicted wound to rush out a bold press release that was intentionally as vague and fact-free as possible, inspired by the same kind of backwards “shoot first, ask later” thinking that got into Iraq. The lack of any kind of substantive plan whatsoever has directly resulted in having to settle with 9W, an airline under the gun for financial troubles, pulling the rug out from under Delta’s grand and fictitious ambitions to return to India. Aside from being complete snakeoil with no date, no plane, and of course no route in sight, it is clear that the writing was on the wall with a total failure to do any kind of well-intentioned due diligence or market research. Delta will now learn that lesson the hard way as it reaps what it sows. If there is a silver lining to this, it is that Delta’s management will never make such a risible mistake again.



But Delta did score a big win with the current administration. There has been no more expansion into the US market by the ME3 in fact there has been an over all capacity reduction. So at least for the next 2 years the US3 at the very least will have the ME3 capacity held in check until we have a changing of the guards in Washington.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:34 am

klm617 wrote:
But Delta did score a big win with the current administration. There has been no more expansion into the US market by the ME3 in fact there has been an over all capacity reduction. So at least for the next 2 years the US3 at the very least will have the ME3 capacity held in check until we have a changing of the guards in Washington.


EK is slowing down because of runway closures and pilot shortages, not because of a paper agreement. QR is still in expansion mode with or without AA and EY is definitely coming back stronger with UA. And in coming years, DL will have to contend not just with the ME3 but also a much stronger TK. Neither are going away anytime soon.
 
winginit
Posts: 2555
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:04 am

sonicruiser wrote:
klm617 wrote:
But Delta did score a big win with the current administration. There has been no more expansion into the US market by the ME3 in fact there has been an over all capacity reduction. So at least for the next 2 years the US3 at the very least will have the ME3 capacity held in check until we have a changing of the guards in Washington.


EK is slowing down because of runway closures and pilot shortages, not because of a paper agreement. QR is still in expansion mode with or without AA and EY is definitely coming back stronger with UA. And in coming years, DL will have to contend not just with the ME3 but also a much stronger TK. Neither are going away anytime soon.


This. The 'agreement' between the US3 and the Trump administration essentially only pertained to fifth freedom routes operated by the ME3 (and really only EK) between Europe and the US. There were no agreements struck around ME3 capacity between their ME hubs and the United States.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 537
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:17 am

winginit wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
klm617 wrote:
But Delta did score a big win with the current administration. There has been no more expansion into the US market by the ME3 in fact there has been an over all capacity reduction. So at least for the next 2 years the US3 at the very least will have the ME3 capacity held in check until we have a changing of the guards in Washington.


EK is slowing down because of runway closures and pilot shortages, not because of a paper agreement. QR is still in expansion mode with or without AA and EY is definitely coming back stronger with UA. And in coming years, DL will have to contend not just with the ME3 but also a much stronger TK. Neither are going away anytime soon.


This. The 'agreement' between the US3 and the Trump administration essentially only pertained to fifth freedom routes operated by the ME3 (and really only EK) between Europe and the US. There were no agreements struck around ME3 capacity between their ME hubs and the United States.


Yup.

There's no denying the ME3 have slowed their growth in the US market in the last couple years, but that isn't because of the administration, just a natural result of quick expansion previously, other competitors getting more aggresive on overflying them (AI). Also helps that EY was a mess for a while with all their investments going in teh direction of Swissair back in teh day.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:24 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Instead of securing a victory against the ME3, their war on subsidies went the other direction, effectively accelerating what they had always feared most: giving more strength to the Gulf carriers and a blank check for unrestricted expansion into the US.


DL might have dodged a bullet. It's the definition of hypocrisy to wage war against government subsidies for the ME3 while at the same time buying ownership interest in Chinese airlines that receive government subsidies. The less visible this hypocrisy is, the better.

sonicruiser wrote:
If there is a silver lining to this, it is that Delta’s management will never make such a risible mistake again.


I would not bet on that.
 
winginit
Posts: 2555
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:36 am

IPFreely wrote:
DL might have dodged a bullet. It's the definition of hypocrisy to wage war against government subsidies for the ME3 while at the same time buying ownership interest in Chinese airlines that receive government subsidies. The less visible this hypocrisy is, the better.


They very likely dodged a financial bullet as well if they indeed opt not to launch this route at all. I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that this route, regardless of equipment or origin, would be anything but a hefty loss maker.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1521
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:57 am

Maybe it's the other way around. Perhaps the traffic that Delta is interested in is coming FROM Bombay. After all, it's a big and important city with lots of businesses and people that might want to travel to the US and Delta can get them to anywhere in the USA via its hub.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2090
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:07 am

See the first post on this page...
"1. 9W appears to have lost the trust of corporate travel officers in India, so the Indian origin traffic is more speculative. Without 9W delivering corporate contracts to the route, yields are too low. "

Origination from India, esp. ex-BOM, make or break this route.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1093
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:31 pm

So on the Indian Aviation thread they are saying it looks like AI cancelled JFK-BOM. Maybe AI found out that DL is starting JFK-BOM (I would imagine the Indian aviation ministry would know which is basically AI). Let's see...fingers crossed.

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