YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 411
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:47 pm

voxkel wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Hopefully, by December '19 airspace issues will be resolved, and everyone back to normal routes.

I think Delta product is going to beat everyone. Please don't serve Roti Roll, that is an abomination of Indian food.


United product isn't bad (on Polaris at least). Air India is dated, but they have had a history of loyal flyers. I don't know if that alone will keep AI alive on this route in the long run.

Also, AI BOM-JFK 3/wk is bookable post July. This means after December there will be 24/wk BOM-NYC!
in Y Delta beats United. J is a wash. AI will always be on this route as long as it is an extension of the Indian government.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 1:25 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
As much as DL kills it domestically they seem less sure of themselves in Asia. I hope the route works for them and they can expand in India from JFK, but I am skeptical of its long term outlook. They are not going to muscle out either AI or UA and that 77L is going to burn money.


I think it's a given this is going to loss leader on its own merit, but having India in your network on your own metal is pretty important. If DL are willing to loose money flying to China, then should also be willing to do so for India. DL doesn't fly to any other Asian cities out of JFK on its own metal. For south america, it only fly to GRU year round out of JFK. On a week UA announced EWR-CPT, it's pretty clear who the global carrier of NYC area is. Even with this add, DL is still way behind UA in NYC.

dtw2hyd wrote:
Hopefully, by December '19 airspace issues will be resolved, and everyone back to normal routes.

I think Delta product is going to beat everyone. Please don't serve Roti Roll, that is an abomination of Indian food.


How is Delta product going to beat EK A380? Outside of BOM, EK is going to be able to get you to pretty much all other major airports in India on one stop. And with Jet gone, who is going to connect passengers from BOM to other part of India?

And for the O&D from Jersey side, that superior DL product is not going to pull people away from flying UA out of EWR.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Delta didn't pick ATL because the Atlanta is not on the East Coast, per its initial announcement.

Non-stop skips TATL JV partners more so than last mile partners. I am sure Vistara or Air India will provide feed at Mumbai.

In the upside-down world of a.net, flame-bait throwers are experts, those who take the bait are apologists/trolls. Experts continue to have great success.

AI is *A carrier and already has complementary flights with UA, why would it provide feed for a skyteam carrier? Vistara now has a really close working relationship with EK feeding many secondary Indian cities from DXB, why would it jeopardize that to help out DL? Just think about the amount of feed EK provides to Vistara right now vs what 1 DL flight can provide.
 
VTORD
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 1:27 am

klm617 wrote:
So all the people who proclaimed that the financial issues with 9W were keeping Delta from starting BOM really had no clue because 9W ceases operations and Delta starts BOM. Great news that Delta chose JFK because New York is a established world gateway unlike Atlanta which is nothing more than an over grown hub.

I was one of those people. And while I am happy to be proven wrong, I will admit that I am very curious to see
1. who they partner with for domestic connections at the BOM end. &
2. how this flight does, given lack of a domestic partner at BOM.

However we are still a good 8 months from launch so they have enough time to line that up.
 
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enilria
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 1:42 am

LAXintl wrote:
Official

Nonstop to Mumbai: New Delta service from New York to begin Dec. 22
https://news.delta.com/nonstop-mumbai-n ... gin-dec-22

=

777LR

JFK-BOM 0915-2250
BOM-JFK 0050-0635

Correct me if wrong, but that schedule will connect to little in JFK. Strange choice.
 
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tlecam
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 1:50 am

No surprise, although it took them long enough.

I wonder if the launch was because of the Jet shut down, not in spite of. The Jet shut down eliminated a lot of options for DL loyalists to get to India.

I agree that the connections on the India side need to be sorted. They need to have service to Delhi, Bangalore and CHennai at a minimum.

WHile i generally prefer non-stops, this is an instance where I don’t mind a stop over in Europe. I live in NYC and haven’t taken advantage of the UA direct routes. Just too long on a plane for my tastes, even up front.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Lootess
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 2:14 am

I'm sure DL will figure out connection opportunities, even if it's with friendemies. The JV loss of the Amsterdam hub to India was huge, DL had to strike fast.

Every time I took ATL-DXB, they'd always announce connections before landing, and it was mostly to India. In some ironic way about ME3, DL used to name Emirates as best caterer for the year when this route was still hot.
Last edited by Lootess on Wed May 01, 2019 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 2:14 am

tlecam wrote:
No surprise, although it took them long enough.

I wonder if the launch was because of the Jet shut down, not in spite of. The Jet shut down eliminated a lot of options for DL loyalists to get to India.

I agree that the connections on the India side need to be sorted. They need to have service to Delhi, Bangalore and CHennai at a minimum.

WHile i generally prefer non-stops, this is an instance where I don’t mind a stop over in Europe. I live in NYC and haven’t taken advantage of the UA direct routes. Just too long on a plane for my tastes, even up front.


Ding ding ding. DL lost a ton of lift between multiple EU hubs to India but especially to BOM. They know how many high end FF used them to BOM and India. Also I think DL finally has the right seat plan for india. The J seats will be super expensive for US based corporates. Premium Y is perfect for the higher end VFR and India or US based businesses that do not allow J travel. Overall India may be price conscious but India has always had a creamy layer. The ME3 and EU carriers tend to send their best products to BOM while DL for years sent worst. Their short lived nonstop was just bad timing.

As far as nonstops, I think AI and UA have proven many do like them plus ME3 have shown some like a long flight and then a short one. Pax are diverse and deserve choice. I am not a fan of the EU connection while going because JFK-EU is too short to sleep.

One thing the time of the JFK flight is 21:15 (the poster above thinks it 9am), so should offer decent connectivity both ways at JFK. There will be min connectivity at BOM just like UA. I expect DL to eventually partner with Go or Vistara. This will give basic connectivity to say BLR, HYD, MAA at say 3am (a FSC carrier should add these flights that jet had as intl pax need something to connect with
 
Lootess
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 2:22 am

If you want some context on the Delta time period when original JFK-BOM was announced, this video will help. The same sprit is here today, and all but one of those execs still works for Delta.

https://youtu.be/ZKTEnOg-6k0
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

jfern022 wrote:
The stupidity from some people on this site is astounding.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:


enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
JFK-BOM 0915-2250
BOM-JFK 0050-0635

Correct me if wrong, but that schedule will connect to little in JFK. Strange choice.

Huh?

The outbound to India leaves mid-evening, so anything inbound that gets into JFK prior to around 8pm has a decent connection.
An early morning JFK arrival gives them connections to anything that departs JFK after around 7:30am... which is essentially: everything.


dtw2hyd wrote:
because the Atlanta is not on the East Coast

:confused: :confused: :confused:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 3:11 am

enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Official

Nonstop to Mumbai: New Delta service from New York to begin Dec. 22
https://news.delta.com/nonstop-mumbai-n ... gin-dec-22

=

777LR

JFK-BOM 0915-2250
BOM-JFK 0050-0635

Correct me if wrong, but that schedule will connect to little in JFK. Strange choice.


If I told you it was JFK2115-2250BOM, that'd make more sense, no!?
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 489
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 3:14 am

LAX772LR wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
JFK-BOM 0915-2250
BOM-JFK 0050-0635

Correct me if wrong, but that schedule will connect to little in JFK. Strange choice.

Huh?

The outbound to India leaves mid-evening, so anything inbound that gets into JFK prior to around 8pm has a decent connection.
An early morning JFK arrival gives them connections to anything that departs JFK after around 7:30am... which is essentially: everything.



Yeah, the connections work well - they've basically matched UA's timings inbound to NYC, and are slightly later outbound, which may hurt some potential ex-BOM connections, but can gather a lot of inbound JFK traffic that can shuttle out to BOM.
 
TW870
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 3:17 am

I'm curious how they will rotate the airplane. With the all day sit, they could easily fit an Atlanta turn in to rotate off of JNB and PVG. Or they could rearrange the 777 Europe flying to fit in a AMS/CDG-JFK trip to rotate onto BOM. That would be a lot of block hours, though, and might require dropping one of the other 777 Europe flights. Or they could just do lots of positioning flights like they did with SEA-HKG - and then do maintenance on the fleet on the long daytime sit at Kennedy. We shall see!

I also wonder if we will see additional long hauls out of JFK to Asia given pilot contract talks and rebalancing of the KE JV. ICN-JFK would be a nice way to rotate the 777 onto BOM.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
tlecam wrote:
No surprise, although it took them long enough.

I wonder if the launch was because of the Jet shut down, not in spite of. The Jet shut down eliminated a lot of options for DL loyalists to get to India.

I agree that the connections on the India side need to be sorted. They need to have service to Delhi, Bangalore and CHennai at a minimum.

WHile i generally prefer non-stops, this is an instance where I don’t mind a stop over in Europe. I live in NYC and haven’t taken advantage of the UA direct routes. Just too long on a plane for my tastes, even up front.


Ding ding ding. DL lost a ton of lift between multiple EU hubs to India but especially to BOM. They know how many high end FF used them to BOM and India. Also I think DL finally has the right seat plan for india. The J seats will be super expensive for US based corporates. Premium Y is perfect for the higher end VFR and India or US based businesses that do not allow J travel. Overall India may be price conscious but India has always had a creamy layer. The ME3 and EU carriers tend to send their best products to BOM while DL for years sent worst. Their short lived nonstop was just bad timing.

As far as nonstops, I think AI and UA have proven many do like them plus ME3 have shown some like a long flight and then a short one. Pax are diverse and deserve choice. I am not a fan of the EU connection while going because JFK-EU is too short to sleep.

One thing the time of the JFK flight is 21:15 (the poster above thinks it 9am), so should offer decent connectivity both ways at JFK. There will be min connectivity at BOM just like UA. I expect DL to eventually partner with Go or Vistara. This will give basic connectivity to say BLR, HYD, MAA at say 3am (a FSC carrier should add these flights that jet had as intl pax need something to connect with


The thru flights from AMS-India were operated by A330s with a decent business seat and a respectable economy experience. That was before densification. They still have pretty much the same seats now as they did then, just no comfort + and zer0 sub-32" pitch economy seats.

The new cabins will definitely be a boon to the overall experience, especially as UA operates a very tight 10 abreast, 30-31" economy cabin.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1019
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 3:59 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
tlecam wrote:
No surprise, although it took them long enough.

I wonder if the launch was because of the Jet shut down, not in spite of. The Jet shut down eliminated a lot of options for DL loyalists to get to India.

I agree that the connections on the India side need to be sorted. They need to have service to Delhi, Bangalore and CHennai at a minimum.

WHile i generally prefer non-stops, this is an instance where I don’t mind a stop over in Europe. I live in NYC and haven’t taken advantage of the UA direct routes. Just too long on a plane for my tastes, even up front.


Ding ding ding. DL lost a ton of lift between multiple EU hubs to India but especially to BOM. They know how many high end FF used them to BOM and India. Also I think DL finally has the right seat plan for india. The J seats will be super expensive for US based corporates. Premium Y is perfect for the higher end VFR and India or US based businesses that do not allow J travel. Overall India may be price conscious but India has always had a creamy layer. The ME3 and EU carriers tend to send their best products to BOM while DL for years sent worst. Their short lived nonstop was just bad timing.

As far as nonstops, I think AI and UA have proven many do like them plus ME3 have shown some like a long flight and then a short one. Pax are diverse and deserve choice. I am not a fan of the EU connection while going because JFK-EU is too short to sleep.

One thing the time of the JFK flight is 21:15 (the poster above thinks it 9am), so should offer decent connectivity both ways at JFK. There will be min connectivity at BOM just like UA. I expect DL to eventually partner with Go or Vistara. This will give basic connectivity to say BLR, HYD, MAA at say 3am (a FSC carrier should add these flights that jet had as intl pax need something to connect with


The thru flights from AMS-India were operated by A330s with a decent business seat and a respectable economy experience. That was before densification. They still have pretty much the same seats now as they did then, just no comfort + and zer0 sub-32" pitch economy seats.

The new cabins will definitely be a boon to the overall experience, especially as UA operates a very tight 10 abreast, 30-31" economy cabin.


Delta has a long history at BOM. Their reputation was built on those old 767s with the recliner J seats they used to send. Yes off and on BOM was lucky to get the NW A330. But so many people had bad to mediocre experiences on DL 767s that they were not a preferred option. Their Jet partnership seemed to have worked in that a whole new group of Indians connected in the EU to DL aircraft. I’m sure DL came off just fine. In general DL tends to fly good modern planes now. Nice to see BOM getting DL’s top product in all classes.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 4:03 am

Boy the prior 16 page of a.net speculation and stupidity sure are a fun read now.

The large professional services, financial firms, tech, and consultancies in NYC will heavily fill the premium cabins on this flight.
I'm curious to what extent this type of traffic from other Delta hubs and focus cities (e.g., ATL, DTW, MSP, CVG, RDU) would connect over JFK versus connecting in AMS / CDG and onward from there?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 4:06 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Delta has a long history at BOM. Their reputation was built on those old 767s with the recliner J seats they used to send. Yes off and on BOM was lucky to get the NW A330. But so many people had bad to mediocre experiences on DL 767s that they were not a preferred option. Their Jet partnership seemed to have worked in that a whole new group of Indians connected in the EU to DL aircraft. I’m sure DL came off just fine. In general DL tends to fly good modern planes now. Nice to see BOM getting DL’s top product in all classes.

Don't forgot what was the NW DC-10 on AMS-BOM, and one of the later flights to transition to A330.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 4:56 am

FSDan wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?


I agree JFK makes the most sense. I heard one rumor (on this site) that it would be the 77L rather than the 359.


We had this one figured out within the first 11 posts. ;)

I do believe the delay in the announcement/launch timeline was likely related to 9W's situation. And I think it's silly of DL to keep beating the ME3 horse...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
x1234
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 4:59 am

With Jets demise, WHY is KL's AMS-BOM flight only 3x weekly!? AND why is CDG-BOM still on a ex-Joon A343!? Air France needs to be sending the 777 or refurbished A332 at minimum to BOM with DL for a better SkyTeam product to India.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 5:12 am

airbazar wrote:
FSDan wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Bottom line is, it was all a political stunt. They never had any intent in re-starting service to India and most of us knew that.


I think you're probably wrong (unless, of course, you can prove they never had intent, in which case I'm all ears).

I think at the time of the initial announcement DL was optimistic about serving India again nonstop, ...


My evidence is that I can't book a DL flight to BOM in 2019. What other evidence do you need?
...

There's no way they planned on starting flying in 2019. That was nothing but political posturing.
They could still announce it to start flying in December 2019, at which point I'll eat crow I guess.


Despite your disbelief, you called the December 2019 start!
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 5:20 am

FSDan wrote:
Without the ability to capture high value 9W-loyal passengers on the BOM end, and without the ability to offer connections beyond BOM on a reliable partner, any U.S.-BOM route DL tries is going to be a major uphill battle. If 9W can't get back on their feet, I think DL will balk.


I do have to admit I was wrong that DL would give up on this route without a strong 9W on the other end. They must see the void in long haul service at BOM post-9W along with the promise of a growing market and a connection between two financial capitols as outweighing the lack of connecting traffic beyond BOM (or they have plans we don't know yet to provide these connections).

I suppose at the end of the day the traffic DL is really hoping to capture is the high value O&D business traffic between NYC and BOM, which is why they picked JFK and not ATL for this route. They'll be able to provide connections from medium and large cities all across the U.S. that's destined for BOM, so hopefully they'll be able to fill up the flight.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
sibibom
Posts: 368
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 7:19 am

If Delta could start next month itself, it would be a roaring success, With Jet's demise fares and yields have gone thru the roof. Y fares today is almost as high as the cheapest J fares before the crisis(yes granted the really terrible airlines with badish connections). Many people I know have canceled family summer holiday plans to Europe and beyond cos of the fares are insanely high especially when multiplied by 4 times.
 
76er
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 7:46 am

x1234 wrote:
WHY is KL's AMS-BOM flight only 3x weekly!?


Because KL has no planes to spare. All they can do is shuffle (sub)types to upgauge.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 10:42 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I'm curious to what extent this type of traffic from other Delta hubs and focus cities (e.g., ATL, DTW, MSP, CVG, RDU) would connect over JFK versus connecting in AMS / CDG and onward from there?


I wouldn't mind taking DL connection @JFK mainly because of DL quality of service. KL service is sub-par compared to DL. So why gamble with 45% of the journey.

Food quality aside, KL crew couldn't serve in a straight line, they were going back and forth, switching main course food options across aisles, between carts in the same aisle. It was a mess, and they missed a few passengers.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9506
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 11:08 am

FSDan wrote:
airbazar wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I think you're probably wrong (unless, of course, you can prove they never had intent, in which case I'm all ears).

I think at the time of the initial announcement DL was optimistic about serving India again nonstop, ...


My evidence is that I can't book a DL flight to BOM in 2019. What other evidence do you need?
...

There's no way they planned on starting flying in 2019. That was nothing but political posturing.
They could still announce it to start flying in December 2019, at which point I'll eat crow I guess.


Despite your disbelief, you called the December 2019 start!


It sure took them long enough but I still think this is more about their political posturing than anything else.
There's absolutely nothing different about the market between Dec 2019 and Dec 2018 and in fact fuel is significantly more expansive today than it was in 2018 which is why we're seeing a cooling down of profits in the industry for Q1 and even some heavy losses.

dtw2hyd wrote:
JFK-BOM PDEW is 500, and there are more than 10 options including every state-owned carrier. if DL wants to fill the plane it needs partner feed on India side.

Geez even I'm not that negative :) I disagree.
It's a large business market and DL probably has some high yielding business contracts that guarantee them paid seats. The 77L only has 122 Y seats so that tells me that they are not interested in selling cheap connecting tickets. This is all about the O&D corporate traffic.
Last edited by airbazar on Wed May 01, 2019 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 11:09 am

tphuang wrote:
How is Delta product going to beat EK A380?

AI is *A carrier and already has complementary flights with UA, why would it provide feed for a skyteam carrier? Vistara now has a really close working relationship with EK feeding many secondary Indian cities from DXB, why would it jeopardize that to help out DL? Just think about the amount of feed EK provides to Vistara right now vs what 1 DL flight can provide.


I don't fly airlines which treat their employees like ..., not that US/EU carriers are saints.

"UA wouldn't touch AI" with a 10-foot pole, this statement has been repeated several times a.net. UA/LH put their eggs in 9W basket long before DL. DL used to offer DTW-JFK feed to AI.

DL mostly makes business decisions based on revenue. If Vistara cannot ramp-up its Mumbai network, AI interlining is the prudent way to go. In the long run, DL/VS-AI partnership at LHR could be developed similar to SkyTeam-9W at AMS. Just a hypothesis.

BTW, SkyTeam already started offering Vistara connections at DEL.

JFK-BOM PDEW is 500, and there are more than 10 options including every state-owned carrier. if DL wants to fill the plane it needs partner feed on India side.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 2680
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 11:10 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Official

Nonstop to Mumbai: New Delta service from New York to begin Dec. 22
https://news.delta.com/nonstop-mumbai-n ... gin-dec-22

=

777LR

JFK-BOM 0915-2250
BOM-JFK 0050-0635

Correct me if wrong, but that schedule will connect to little in JFK. Strange choice.


If I told you it was JFK2115-2250BOM, that'd make more sense, no!?


Okay, that makes a lot more sense! UA's flight from EWR is scheduled to push back 75 minutes earlier and has a similar timing...late evening into BOM to get back to JFK. I get why it's on the 77L, but should it go to the A359 later on? I suspect even a 268t frame can make it. (The schedule should say: Arrives in BOM +1, departs BOM +2 from JFK departure.)

Oh, and Tata SIA Airlines, trading as Vistara, is UK.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 12:39 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
tphuang wrote:
How is Delta product going to beat EK A380?

AI is *A carrier and already has complementary flights with UA, why would it provide feed for a skyteam carrier? Vistara now has a really close working relationship with EK feeding many secondary Indian cities from DXB, why would it jeopardize that to help out DL? Just think about the amount of feed EK provides to Vistara right now vs what 1 DL flight can provide.


I don't fly airlines which treat their employees like ..., not that US/EU carriers are saints.

"UA wouldn't touch AI" with a 10-foot pole, this statement has been repeated several times a.net. UA/LH put their eggs in 9W basket long before DL. DL used to offer DTW-JFK feed to AI.

DL mostly makes business decisions based on revenue. If Vistara cannot ramp-up its Mumbai network, AI interlining is the prudent way to go. In the long run, DL/VS-AI partnership at LHR could be developed similar to SkyTeam-9W at AMS. Just a hypothesis.

BTW, SkyTeam already started offering Vistara connections at DEL.

JFK-BOM PDEW is 500, and there are more than 10 options including every state-owned carrier. if DL wants to fill the plane it needs partner feed on India side.


That's your prerogative. I can tell you that most Indian expats I know fly EK exclusively. And aside from that, there are also a lot of QR supporters. DL has a huge uphill battle to try winning over that crowd. This is definitely not a low yielding I'm talking about here.

I would agree they need feeds. But just to assume that AI will help them or Vistara would help them given those airlines existing alliances is a lot of presumptions. I'm sure UA would strongly encourage AI not to interline with DL at BOM. We will have to see what they do.

FSDan wrote:
I do have to admit I was wrong that DL would give up on this route without a strong 9W on the other end. They must see the void in long haul service at BOM post-9W along with the promise of a growing market and a connection between two financial capitols as outweighing the lack of connecting traffic beyond BOM (or they have plans we don't know yet to provide these connections).

I suppose at the end of the day the traffic DL is really hoping to capture is the high value O&D business traffic between NYC and BOM, which is why they picked JFK and not ATL for this route. They'll be able to provide connections from medium and large cities all across the U.S. that's destined for BOM, so hopefully they'll be able to fill up the flight.


I think they picked JFK because there is simply a lot more demand in new york. And most people on east coast would have to backtrack to get to ATL compared to JFK. Think about where the largest Indian communities are. In every sense, JFK is a better option than ATL. But that's also why JFK has a lot more competition.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 12:48 pm

tphuang wrote:
I'm sure UA would strongly encourage AI not to interline with DL at BOM. We will have to see what they do.


What right UA has? AI joined *A in 2012, until now both UA and LH kept AI at bay to protect their JV. Unlike the other 26 *A members, both haven't signed code-share agreements with AI. AI never objected to UA/LH-9W code-share, they will have no say if DL wants to partner with AI. Good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
worldranger
Posts: 218
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 1:02 pm

EK announced a wide ranging code share with SpiceJet last week - coincidence? They also code share with Vistara.

Having flown Delta recently I was really surprised at how they’ve raised their game - it was good, very good.

The ME3 stuff from DL has got to stop. ATL-DXB & a code with EK would be a show stopper. (Dream on, I know)

Interestingly EK did a study on the price sensitivity of an Indian Y passenger using a hub to get to UK as against direct and found that the under / over on using a hub for a family of four rather than direct, was wait for it...£10 per ticket. The Indian Y market is extremely price sensitive.

An Uber driver i talked to in Atlanta - says he and all his family use Megabus to go to NY to save $100 on tiks to India.

So price matters. 10Y on Delta made it economical.
 
alfa164
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 1:02 pm

tphuang wrote:
I'm sure UA would strongly encourage AI not to interline with DL at BOM. We will have to see what they do.


Since UA interlines with DL - and, for that matter, with all major carriers - it is spurious to think they would try to stop someone else from doing the same.

Only secondary carriers fail to interline with most all major players.
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Lootess
Posts: 136
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 1:25 pm

76er wrote:
x1234 wrote:
WHY is KL's AMS-BOM flight only 3x weekly!?


Because KL has no planes to spare. All they can do is shuffle (sub)types to upgauge.


Makes you really miss when NW/DL would run an AMS-BOM on A330 as part of the JV.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 1:26 pm

alfa164 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I'm sure UA would strongly encourage AI not to interline with DL at BOM. We will have to see what they do.


Since UA interlines with DL - and, for that matter, with all major carriers - it is spurious to think they would try to stop someone else from doing the same.

Only secondary carriers fail to interline with most all major players.

well I guess DL has nothing to worry about then. Problem solved.
 
sabby
Posts: 306
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 2:09 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
sabby wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
Love how they threw this in the press release: "Delta first offered service between the U.S. and Mumbai beginning in 2006, but was forced to suspend the service in 2009 as illegally subsidized Middle East carriers made the route untenable."


Yeah, especially considering they themselves own 49% of an "illegally subsidized" carrier i.e. AlItalia.


They don’t own 49% of Alitalia. They own 0% of Alitalia. Get your facts straight.


Fair point, I stand corrected. It seems even though they wanted to purchase, the deal didn't go through. Anyway, AZ is still part of SkyTeam and heavily subsidized and yet you never see DL complain about them but constantly on the nose about AirItaly being 49% owned by subsidized QR. There are more airlines on SkyTeam that are subsidized by governments (MU, SV etc.) and DL conveniently ignores all of them. Just to be clear, I am neither on the side of US3 nor ME3 but hypocrisy disgusts me.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 2:17 pm

TW870 wrote:
I'm curious how they will rotate the airplane. With the all day sit, they could easily fit an Atlanta turn in to rotate off of JNB and PVG. Or they could rearrange the 777 Europe flying to fit in a AMS/CDG-JFK trip to rotate onto BOM. That would be a lot of block hours, though, and might require dropping one of the other 777 Europe flights. Or they could just do lots of positioning flights like they did with SEA-HKG - and then do maintenance on the fleet on the long daytime sit at Kennedy. We shall see!

I also wonder if we will see additional long hauls out of JFK to Asia given pilot contract talks and rebalancing of the KE JV. ICN-JFK would be a nice way to rotate the 777 onto BOM.

The aircraft can do a JFK-LAX domestic run and can then fly to SYD. Similarly the aircraft doing SYD-LAX can fly to JFK and then onto BOM. DL flies the premium product on the transcontinental route so it makes more sense than having it fly to ATL for a domestic run.
 
jayunited
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 2:56 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
voxkel wrote:
Should have done JFK-DEL-JFK IMO. AI and UA already do BOM-NYC but neither does DEL-NYC nonstop at the moment. 77L can do DEL-NYC nonstop (a 17-18hr flight) and with 9W a nonfactor, connecting traffic should not be that much of an issue.



With the current airspace closure that flight time would be a lot longer than 18 hours. Before UA started rotating crews through Germany and ultimately suspending DEL UA for a few days operated DEL-BGR-EWR, the DEL-BGR segment came close to 18 hours to do the extensive reroute and upper level winds. This then forced UA to operated DEL-KEF-EWR for a few days before UA decided on Germany and then suspension of the route. The point being as long a the closure is still in place DEL-JFK nonstop is out of the question because it would require DL operate the flight with a 5 man/woman crew just to be legal because the flight time would exceed what a 4 person crew could fly legally. Have you even thought about the fuel required and the additional cost associated with the additional fuel required for the reroute? These are some of the reasons no one is currently operating DEL-NYC nonstop at this time. To be honest I'm surprise AI has hung in as long as they have DEL-VIE-JFK has to be costing them a fortune, I'm not sure how much longer they will be able to sustain it.

As far as BOM I'm glad to see DL finally announcing this route there are a lot of Indian expats living in America and the population continues to grow. While some might say a nonstop flight to India is to long a plane ride there are many more people looking for more nonstop flights. I think there is more than enough room for both DL and UA on this route. I'm glad to see DL finally getting off the sidelines complaining about the ME3 and instead taking the fight directly to EK in the form of a nonstop flight. The ME3 disrupted the US-Europe-India routings by offering a more convenient connection via the Middle East, I think a nonstop is more convenient than any connection could ever be, and looking at the current prices for US-India flights it is still cheaper to fly to India than it is to fly to Europe over even Hawaii and that is because of the ME3 but at some point each airline has to decided how important India is to their overall network? DL has finally decided India is important they are getting back into the market, only time will tell what effect they will have, only time will tell what effect UA's SFO-DEL flight will have once it launches in December. Will both DL at JFK and UA at SFO be able to steal some passengers away from the ME3 starting this December? On a.netters the answer would be a resounding no but the reality may prove a.netters right or it may prove them wrong. But we will never know as along a the US3 sit on the sidelines and expect Washington DC to fight the ME3 for them.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 pm

jfern022 wrote:
The stupidity from some people on this site is astounding.


I agree 100%, although I might say malignity rather than stupidity. Personally I am surprised that DL is returning to India at this moment. I assumed that after the demise of 9W that Delta would wait a while. But I enjoyed reading everyone's guesses about what was going to happen and the story turned out to have a happy ending after all, for all of us former NW fanboys - remember AMS-BOM on Northwest? I just don't understand the ugliness and putting each other down on this site. We all enjoy aviation, airlines, and their ups and downs. Can't we all be nice and respectful to each other?
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 4:16 pm

airbazar wrote:
It sure took them long enough but I still think this is more about their political posturing than anything else.
There's absolutely nothing different about the market between Dec 2019 and Dec 2018 and in fact fuel is significantly more expansive today than it was in 2018 which is why we're seeing a cooling down of profits in the industry for Q1 and even some heavy losses.


I don't know how you can say nothing is different about the market... What was previously the single largest international carrier at BOM has completely ceased operations between last December and now, taking 4 77Ws worth of capacity out of the Europe-BOM market, which DL had been using for U.S.-India connections via LHR, CDG, and AMS. VS, AF, and KL probably can't accommodate all the U.S. and EU-India traffic they had been sending via 9W on their own metal. 9W's demise has the unfortunate consequence of limiting the connections beyond BOM that DL can offer, but at the same time it has the positive effect of raising prices in the international market from BOM through limited supply. As far as I can tell, there has been much more backfilling of capacity on the domestic side than on the international side...

It's certainly true (and very unfortunate) that DL has made this route launch political, but that's not the primary driving factor for the announcement. If DL operated that way, you wouldn't see them sitting on top of the profitability charts. At the end of the day, DL thinks they can capture a lucrative market with this flight - or at the very least position themselves well for the future in an important and growing market.
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FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 4:27 pm

tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:
I do have to admit I was wrong that DL would give up on this route without a strong 9W on the other end. They must see the void in long haul service at BOM post-9W along with the promise of a growing market and a connection between two financial capitols as outweighing the lack of connecting traffic beyond BOM (or they have plans we don't know yet to provide these connections).

I suppose at the end of the day the traffic DL is really hoping to capture is the high value O&D business traffic between NYC and BOM, which is why they picked JFK and not ATL for this route. They'll be able to provide connections from medium and large cities all across the U.S. that's destined for BOM, so hopefully they'll be able to fill up the flight.


I think they picked JFK because there is simply a lot more demand in new york. And most people on east coast would have to backtrack to get to ATL compared to JFK. Think about where the largest Indian communities are. In every sense, JFK is a better option than ATL. But that's also why JFK has a lot more competition.


:checkmark: Definitely agree. I've been saying all along that JFK makes more sense than ATL, not only because it's a much bigger local market, but because it's geographically in a better location to offer connections from the rest of the U.S. to BOM. UA and AI are going to hold onto the NJ-BOM traffic, but DL should be able to compete for traffic from the rest of NYC to BOM (particularly the Manhattan-bound business traffic) and supplement that with connections from all the major U.S. cities that don't have nonstops to BOM - BOS, WAS, ORD, DFW, LAX, SFO, etc.
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jagraham
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 4:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
voxkel wrote:
Should have done JFK-DEL-JFK IMO. AI and UA already do BOM-NYC but neither does DEL-NYC nonstop at the moment. 77L can do DEL-NYC nonstop (a 17-18hr flight) and with 9W a nonfactor, connecting traffic should not be that much of an issue.



With the current airspace closure that flight time would be a lot longer than 18 hours. Before UA started rotating crews through Germany and ultimately suspending DEL UA for a few days operated DEL-BGR-EWR, the DEL-BGR segment came close to 18 hours to do the extensive reroute and upper level winds. This then forced UA to operated DEL-KEF-EWR for a few days before UA decided on Germany and then suspension of the route. The point being as long a the closure is still in place DEL-JFK nonstop is out of the question because it would require DL operate the flight with a 5 man/woman crew just to be legal because the flight time would exceed what a 4 person crew could fly legally. Have you even thought about the fuel required and the additional cost associated with the additional fuel required for the reroute? These are some of the reasons no one is currently operating DEL-NYC nonstop at this time. To be honest I'm surprise AI has hung in as long as they have DEL-VIE-JFK has to be costing them a fortune, I'm not sure how much longer they will be able to sustain it.

As far as BOM I'm glad to see DL finally announcing this route there are a lot of Indian expats living in America and the population continues to grow. While some might say a nonstop flight to India is to long a plane ride there are many more people looking for more nonstop flights. I think there is more than enough room for both DL and UA on this route. I'm glad to see DL finally getting off the sidelines complaining about the ME3 and instead taking the fight directly to EK in the form of a nonstop flight. The ME3 disrupted the US-Europe-India routings by offering a more convenient connection via the Middle East, I think a nonstop is more convenient than any connection could ever be, and looking at the current prices for US-India flights it is still cheaper to fly to India than it is to fly to Europe over even Hawaii and that is because of the ME3 but at some point each airline has to decided how important India is to their overall network? DL has finally decided India is important they are getting back into the market, only time will tell what effect they will have, only time will tell what effect UA's SFO-DEL flight will have once it launches in December. Will both DL at JFK and UA at SFO be able to steal some passengers away from the ME3 starting this December? On a.netters the answer would be a resounding no but the reality may prove a.netters right or it may prove them wrong. But we will never know as along a the US3 sit on the sidelines and expect Washington DC to fight the ME3 for them.


I was curious about routing so I played with airmilescalculator. Great circle to BOM is 6777 nm but takes you over Russia, Kazhakstan, Turkmenistan, and Pakistan. Which is a no-go right now. Routing over Cairo is 7226 nm (449 nm extra). That takes you over Saudi Arabia into the Gulf, touching the tip of Kuwait and Oman, then over the Arabian Sea into BOM. No Pakistan, no Syria. No Iran or Turkey even. 15 hours going over Pakistan, a bit over 16 hours flying over Cairo. Quite doable with a 77L.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 4:53 pm

FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:
I do have to admit I was wrong that DL would give up on this route without a strong 9W on the other end. They must see the void in long haul service at BOM post-9W along with the promise of a growing market and a connection between two financial capitols as outweighing the lack of connecting traffic beyond BOM (or they have plans we don't know yet to provide these connections).

I suppose at the end of the day the traffic DL is really hoping to capture is the high value O&D business traffic between NYC and BOM, which is why they picked JFK and not ATL for this route. They'll be able to provide connections from medium and large cities all across the U.S. that's destined for BOM, so hopefully they'll be able to fill up the flight.


I think they picked JFK because there is simply a lot more demand in new york. And most people on east coast would have to backtrack to get to ATL compared to JFK. Think about where the largest Indian communities are. In every sense, JFK is a better option than ATL. But that's also why JFK has a lot more competition.


:checkmark: Definitely agree. I've been saying all along that JFK makes more sense than ATL, not only because it's a much bigger local market, but because it's geographically in a better location to offer connections from the rest of the U.S. to BOM. UA and AI are going to hold onto the NJ-BOM traffic, but DL should be able to compete for traffic from the rest of NYC to BOM (particularly the Manhattan-bound business traffic) and supplement that with connections from all the major U.S. cities that don't have nonstops to BOM - BOS, WAS, ORD, DFW, LAX, SFO, etc.


The problem with BOS, IAD, ORD, DFX, LAX, SFO is that EK serves all of these places. For all non-BOM destination, they would be able to get to get there on one connections. And for BOM, they have 5 flights from DXB, which allows much better arrival timing.

Any the crowd that doesn't care about the arrival timing, which is actually a pretty large segment of VFR traffic, is very low yielding.

But as I said, DL is in China even though that's surely a huge loss leader for them. India should be no different.
 
VTORD
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Re: UPDATED: Delta announces JFK-BOM

Wed May 01, 2019 5:16 pm

sibibom wrote:
If Delta could start next month itself, it would be a roaring success, With Jet's demise fares and yields have gone thru the roof. Y fares today is almost as high as the cheapest J fares before the crisis(yes granted the really terrible airlines with badish connections). Many people I know have canceled family summer holiday plans to Europe and beyond cos of the fares are insanely high especially when multiplied by 4 times.

Desis are nearing a meltdown....How dare EK charge $1750 in summer! Heck even TK is charging in the $2000 range for Y.

tphuang wrote:

The problem with BOS, IAD, ORD, DFX, LAX, SFO is that EK serves all of these places. For all non-BOM destination, they would be able to get to get there on one connections. And for BOM, they have 5 flights from DXB, which allows much better arrival timing.

Any the crowd that doesn't care about the arrival timing, which is actually a pretty large segment of VFR traffic, is very low yielding.

But as I said, DL is in China even though that's surely a huge loss leader for them. India should be no different.

EK has multiple dailies in to most of their Indian ports of call (at least DEL, BLR, HYD, MAA, CCU for sure, AMD don't know) and even then, the most convenient connection for NA pax is on the 10:30 PM bank out of DXB. Except I think DFW and the morning JFK rotation, most would involve a pretty long layover in DXB. Anyhow that doesn't matter in this case as it appears DL is going after the XXX-JFK-BOM crowd and leaving the non-BOM pax to others.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 5:35 pm

FSDan wrote:
I don't know how you can say nothing is different about the market... What was previously the single largest international carrier at BOM has completely ceased operations between last December and now, taking 4 77Ws worth of capacity out of the Europe-BOM market, which DL had been using for U.S.-India connections via LHR, CDG, and AMS. VS, AF, and KL probably can't accommodate all the U.S. and EU-India traffic they had been sending via 9W on their own metal. 9W's demise has the unfortunate consequence of limiting the connections beyond BOM that DL can offer, but at the same time it has the positive effect of raising prices in the international market from BOM through limited supply. As far as I can tell, there has been much more backfilling of capacity on the domestic side than on the international side...


So it is a band-aid because its JV partners cannot perform and 9W was snuffed out. Carrying 9W feed on existing vast TATL network had no risk. Now DL has skin in the game, it has to make it work.
 
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enilria
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 6:06 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Official

Nonstop to Mumbai: New Delta service from New York to begin Dec. 22
https://news.delta.com/nonstop-mumbai-n ... gin-dec-22

=

777LR

JFK-BOM 0915-2250
BOM-JFK 0050-0635

Correct me if wrong, but that schedule will connect to little in JFK. Strange choice.


If I told you it was JFK2115-2250BOM, that'd make more sense, no!?

The time isn't 0915, it's 2115? That does make quite a bit of difference, although the early morning JFK arrival is still poor for much connectivity.
 
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enilria
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 6:08 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
The stupidity from some people on this site is astounding.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:


enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
JFK-BOM 0915-2250
BOM-JFK 0050-0635

Correct me if wrong, but that schedule will connect to little in JFK. Strange choice.

Huh?

The outbound to India leaves mid-evening, so anything inbound that gets into JFK prior to around 8pm has a decent connection.
An early morning JFK arrival gives them connections to anything that departs JFK after around 7:30am... which is essentially: everything.


dtw2hyd wrote:
because the Atlanta is not on the East Coast

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Why is it my fault that the time posted in this thread is apparently wrong??? 0915 and 2115 are different times. 0915 is not in the evening.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 489
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 6:18 pm

enilria wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Correct me if wrong, but that schedule will connect to little in JFK. Strange choice.


If I told you it was JFK2115-2250BOM, that'd make more sense, no!?

The time isn't 0915, it's 2115? That does make quite a bit of difference, although the early morning JFK arrival is still poor for much connectivity.


Why is the early AM arrival bad for ex-JFK connections? Doesn't DL have a early morning rush out of JFK to regional destinations - or are most from LGA?

UA has very similar times into EWR and it works quite well.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 6:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
The problem with BOS, IAD, ORD, DFX, LAX, SFO is that EK serves all of these places. For all non-BOM destination, they would be able to get to get there on one connections. And for BOM, they have 5 flights from DXB, which allows much better arrival timing.

Any the crowd that doesn't care about the arrival timing, which is actually a pretty large segment of VFR traffic, is very low yielding.

But as I said, DL is in China even though that's surely a huge loss leader for them. India should be no different.


I think DL will be able to compete alright with EK for one-stop traffic to BOM. DL's arrival is pretty late, but the timings seem much better than a lot of Europe-India timings, and airlines like BA and LH have been able to continue getting U.S.-India connecting traffic against EK even with those middle-of-the-night arrivals and departures.

The VFR market is certainly part of the picture, but what DL would really like to capture is the business traffic. That's the market segment that will prefer a nonstop, and the U.S. side of said traffic is more likely to have frequent flier loyalty to DL vs EK. EK can take people to India, but if those same people tend to travel domestically on DL for work, I think DL has a good chance of winning with them for travel to India. That said, I'm sure DL will still have to fill up the back of the plane by competing on price for low yield VFR.
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iyerhari
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 6:34 pm

tphuang wrote:
The problem with BOS, IAD, ORD, DFX, LAX, SFO is that EK serves all of these places. For all non-BOM destination, they would be able to get to get there on one connections. And for BOM, they have 5 flights from DXB, which allows much better arrival timing.

Any the crowd that doesn't care about the arrival timing, which is actually a pretty large segment of VFR traffic, is very low yielding.

But as I said, DL is in China even though that's surely a huge loss leader for them. India should be no different.

I do not know about China but India has four different types of passenger categories:
1. Direct PTP - JFK to BOM - perfect - slam dunk and no brainer. This applies to BOM and vicinities such as Pune, Nagpur etc. who many times prefer to use BOM
2. On-hop connection to BOM within the US - BOS-JFK-BOM - it depends and have known people who also take the UA EWR option to BOM/DEL.
3. On-hop connection from JFK to other place besides BOM - such as JFK-BOM-HYD - may not be ideal for DL and i am just saying based on my experience and depends on how the connection experience is.
4. Multi-hop connection to BOM and onwards - e.g. BOS-JFK-BOM-HYD - I think this is a longshot and i do not think there maybe a lot of folks here.

The best pool for DL maybe 1 and in some sense 2. Two massive cities. 3 and 4 maybe tough as you correctly pointed out there are multitudes of carriers such as EK, BA etc. who can be better here. DL is a solid carrier and has a good reputation in India. AI maybe the only true international carrier left in India at this time - has it plus and minus.

IMO, EK is a good carrier but not the only one. Price vantage is also important. VFR every year is not cheap and also depends on the priority etc. It is a huge country and there is a lot of business and family ties.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 6:51 pm

iyerhari wrote:
tphuang wrote:
The problem with BOS, IAD, ORD, DFX, LAX, SFO is that EK serves all of these places. For all non-BOM destination, they would be able to get to get there on one connections. And for BOM, they have 5 flights from DXB, which allows much better arrival timing.

Any the crowd that doesn't care about the arrival timing, which is actually a pretty large segment of VFR traffic, is very low yielding.

But as I said, DL is in China even though that's surely a huge loss leader for them. India should be no different.

I do not know about China but India has four different types of passenger categories:
1. Direct PTP - JFK to BOM - perfect - slam dunk and no brainer. This applies to BOM and vicinities such as Pune, Nagpur etc. who many times prefer to use BOM
2. On-hop connection to BOM within the US - BOS-JFK-BOM - it depends and have known people who also take the UA EWR option to BOM/DEL.
3. On-hop connection from JFK to other place besides BOM - such as JFK-BOM-HYD - may not be ideal for DL and i am just saying based on my experience and depends on how the connection experience is.
4. Multi-hop connection to BOM and onwards - e.g. BOS-JFK-BOM-HYD - I think this is a longshot and i do not think there maybe a lot of folks here.

The best pool for DL maybe 1 and in some sense 2. Two massive cities. 3 and 4 maybe tough as you correctly pointed out there are multitudes of carriers such as EK, BA etc. who can be better here. DL is a solid carrier and has a good reputation in India. AI maybe the only true international carrier left in India at this time - has it plus and minus.

IMO, EK is a good carrier but not the only one. Price vantage is also important. VFR every year is not cheap and also depends on the priority etc. It is a huge country and there is a lot of business and family ties.


I think you can probably speak of it more than I do. But my impression has always been that my Indian friends/colleagues who may fly legacies domestically are all loyal EK/QR passengers on their trips to India. I'm not referring to road warriors but rather people who may fly every couple of months domestically and may once/twice a year to India. In those case, the value proposition of that one international flight may be more important than the miles the few flights they take domestically.

FSDan wrote:
The VFR market is certainly part of the picture, but what DL would really like to capture is the business traffic. That's the market segment that will prefer a nonstop, and the U.S. side of said traffic is more likely to have frequent flier loyalty to DL vs EK. EK can take people to India, but if those same people tend to travel domestically on DL for work, I think DL has a good chance of winning with them for travel to India. That said, I'm sure DL will still have to fill up the back of the plane by competing on price for low yield VFR.


A lot of people doing the NYC to India business travel might only be doing it once a year or once every couple of years. My experience in NYC is that a lot of people in corporate circles want to try fancy international carriers for the 1 trip they get to take on company dime a year. And for them, it's a lot more appealing and noteworthy to fly on something like A380 J vs domestic options. I don't want to sound like a jerk here but the perception of onboard shower, bar area, J class only deck and fancy lounges in DXB is attractive to a lot of people. The people that do a lot of travel domestically with DL for business trips are not the same type that also do international travel to Asia. If you expect to loose a day on the way over and back, you can schedule a longer layover at Dubai, take a trip to the Burj, Dubai mall, take the photos, go back to their fancy lounge and then take the shorter flight to India.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2419
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 7:11 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
enilria wrote:
the early morning JFK arrival is still poor for much connectivity.


Why is the early AM arrival bad for ex-JFK connections? Doesn't DL have a early morning rush out of JFK to regional destinations - or are most from LGA?

UA has very similar times into EWR and it works quite well.


DL has plenty of departures out of JFK in the morning. I think the early morning arrival from BOM will be fine for connectivity, especially to other cities with large Indian populations and/or lots of big corporations. Based on this summer's schedule, there are departures between 8am and 10am to BOS, BWI, DCA, RDU, ATL, MCO, MIA, DTW, ORD, DFW, AUS, DEN, SAN, LAX, SFO, SEA, MEX, and others.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
airboss787
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Wed May 01, 2019 7:57 pm

iyerhari wrote:
tphuang wrote:
The problem with BOS, IAD, ORD, DFX, LAX, SFO is that EK serves all of these places. For all non-BOM destination, they would be able to get to get there on one connections. And for BOM, they have 5 flights from DXB, which allows much better arrival timing.

Any the crowd that doesn't care about the arrival timing, which is actually a pretty large segment of VFR traffic, is very low yielding.

But as I said, DL is in China even though that's surely a huge loss leader for them. India should be no different.

I do not know about China but India has four different types of passenger categories:
1. Direct PTP - JFK to BOM - perfect - slam dunk and no brainer. This applies to BOM and vicinities such as Pune, Nagpur etc. who many times prefer to use BOM
2. On-hop connection to BOM within the US - BOS-JFK-BOM - it depends and have known people who also take the UA EWR option to BOM/DEL.
3. On-hop connection from JFK to other place besides BOM - such as JFK-BOM-HYD - may not be ideal for DL and i am just saying based on my experience and depends on how the connection experience is.
4. Multi-hop connection to BOM and onwards - e.g. BOS-JFK-BOM-HYD - I think this is a longshot and i do not think there maybe a lot of folks here.



As someone who travels to India, particularly Pune often from Indianapolis, I am number 4 in that. I am Star Alliance Gold through United. When I book tickets, I will not even look at non-Star Alliance airlines even if it means an extra stop.

I think a lot of people are forgetting loyalty. Sure, not all passengers care about which airline they are traveling on but are just looking for the cheapest fares, there are quite a few people, including me, who are picky that way.

Having AI in Star has been a big boon for me when it comes to domestic flights in India. I look at LH/LX/UA/AI only for all my travels. The benefits (like miles, lounges, better seats, better treatment, priority lines, better boarding groups for more overhead space, more flexibility with bookings, more upgrade chances, etc.) far outweigh the minor price difference.

Having Delta enter the market is great news for me only because that will probably mean softening of fares on the AI and UA nonstops. My itinerary usually is either PNQ-DEL-FRA/MUC/ZRH-EWR/IAD/ORD-IND or from BOM to the US either on the nonstops or via Europe.
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