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RTW00
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:16 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 2:22 am

Atlwarrior wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
In case anyone is interested, here are the largest foreign born Indian communities in the US. This is foreign born only:

1. New York: 361,910 people
2. Bay Area: 249,903
3. Chicago: 142,508
4. Dallas: 108,570
5. Washington DC: 104,432
6. Los Angeles: 94,007
7. Philadelphia: 82,091
8. Houston: 75,609
9. Atlanta: 64,614


Source and what year.



To be the successful route, you not only look for India born but also who travels in the front of the aircraft to make $$.

It is all about Financial Services, Pharmaceutical and other business executives who are willing to pay for the front row seats will decide the success. I strongly believe it is JFK which has good connections to India.
 
RTW00
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:16 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 2:35 am

dmstorm22 wrote:
flybry wrote:
I think United will soon cease its service to Mumbai if Delta enters the market. :(


Why would you think that?

That flight has existed for over a decade, through the rise of ME3 options.

There is a giant Indian community in NJ, many of which are wealthy, who take the flight that are not going to suddenly give it up to drive all the way out to JFK. DL better not be banking on siphoning too much traffic from UA with this flight. They have to hope they can get ME3 (or AF/LH/BA) traffic.


Fully agree- there is a UA ff base in NJ and would prefer UA over DL to travel unless there is significant cost saving or timing preference. Most NJ resident would not prefer to travel to JFK to get on non-stop DL to BOM when there are two other options are available at EWR (UA and AI). I believe that the prices will be very competitive between the airlines.
For CO and now UA, EWR- BOM has been a very successful route and I doubt that DL will alter that.
 
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binayak
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 4:48 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
The way Indian duties/taxes are structured, same route costs more for 9W to operate than DL.

Indian carriers pay 40% duty on ATF, 50% duty on MX/MRO, which DL(and all foreign carriers) are exempted. If Delta can reel in any US ASIP, its cost will be even lower.

Recently Indian carriers have requested the govt to include ATF tax under GST. This might give them an annual relief of good amount. Lets see what happens and whether things improve.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 10911
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Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:06 am

RTW00 wrote:
With this BOM will be well connected with US through Skyteam- LHR (Virgin/Jet)

Neither Virgin nor Jet are in SkyTeam.


dtw2hyd wrote:
No competition from ME3

Indicative of lack of demand relative to the myriad of other places they've instead decided to serve...


dtw2hyd wrote:
Highest average fares to India.

And the corroboration for that is ______?


dtw2hyd wrote:
Best Delta hub to connect in the USA

That's an opinion, not a fact.


dtw2hyd wrote:
Best all weather Delta hub.

LAX laughs at the falsity of this statement.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
777Mech
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 6:05 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
ATL is neither in the east nor at a coast.


What in the world? Have you ever seen a map of the US? What quantifies as easy in your world????
 
klm617
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 9:34 am

LAX772LR wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
No competition from ME3

Indicative of lack of demand relative to the myriad of other places they've instead decided to serve....





That's an opinion not a fact.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 9:39 am

DeSpringbokke wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
If this discussion need to be limited to Ed Bastian's comments, ATL is neither in the east nor at a coast.


Uh, its in the Eastern time zone, as is the entire state of Georgia, which is on the Atlantic Coastal Plain.


So is Detroit then if you consider ATL on the east coast. Only two East coast hubs for Delta are BOS and JFK
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6064
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 11:39 am

DeSpringbokke wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
If this discussion need to be limited to Ed Bastian's comments, ATL is neither in the east nor at a coast.


Uh, its in the Eastern time zone, as is the entire state of Georgia, which is on the Atlantic Coastal Plain.


Any city 260 miles inland has nothing to do with a coast. Georgia is a east coast state. Coast (like East/West coast of US) is used to describe a region, not an absolute location, because one should be able to identify where land and sea meet AKA coastline. Even with extreme global warning no environmentalists predicting 260 mile coastal erosion. If that happens New York and Mumbai will be underwater.

Enjoy the Atlantic coastal breeze.
 
axiom
Posts: 694
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 11:56 am

I love DTW. I have so many fond memories transiting it as a kid. It's a great facility. I'll even go out of my way to connect there.

But please, y'all. There is no global planetary conspiracy to deprive DTW of service. I am so close to blocking each of you -- you're becoming intractiable trolls who add absolutely nothing to this conversation. There is nothing you can add of any substance so long as you operate from the position of this grand injustice. No amount of data (which you never provide, anyway) will make this any more interesting.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5338
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 12:07 pm

klm617 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
No competition from ME3

Indicative of lack of demand relative to the myriad of other places they've instead decided to serve....





That's an opinion not a fact.


No sir, it’s fact.
Next flight: IAH-UIO-IAH on UA in Y
 
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tlecam
Posts: 1169
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 12:09 pm

Attempting to put some precise definition on these terms is useless. I don’t usually think of Atlanta as a coastal city, but often when describing storms that “go up the east coast”, Georgia and Atlanta are part of the news. Trying to apply some sort of precise definition to Delta’s write up is useless, because they meant what they meant, whether we agree with their definition or not.

I think that the majority here have it right - by east coast hubs, Delta is referring to JFK or ATL. They’re also being intentionally vague, so who knows.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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Alphazone
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:22 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 1:05 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Spiderguy252 wrote:
Alphazone wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
JFK-AMS-BOM


What do you mean JFK-AMS-BOM, it was DTW crew who flew AMS-BOM.


I was referring to DL's same plane 767 service on JFK-AMS-BOM until recently. (2016?)


Before that AMS-BOM was operated by 330 and DTW crew.
No conclusion can be offered, for the history recounted above is still unfolding.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 1:26 pm

I wonder if the vagueness also come from coordinating with Jet? As I said earlier, I think the partnership could ideally have ATL-DEL and JFK-BOM. On the surface, I would think DL should fly whatever route is from ATL (plus they have a LR). That said, if JFK is to serve corporates (and the US client is the pickiest and pays more), then maybe DL flies JFK-BOM and Jet flies ATL-DEL? I think Jet on the ATL route could work if the 77W can fly it and the primary pax is India originating. On another note, I've been saying it should be JFK-BOM. Thinking about other routes, DL did offer ATL-JNB over NYC-JNB (assuming a 77L could make it). That would be a route where they chose connections over NYC business travelers. But there also it could be backtracking - meaning it is logical to fly JFK-ATL-JNB but not logical to fly NYC-ATL-BOM. Who knows...
 
HIA350
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:51 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 1:50 pm

cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?



JFK Distance: 7,789.62 mi A350 makes it
 
vadodara
Posts: 601
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 2:00 pm

JFK-BOM offers 1-stop options to lots of markets. e.g. likes of PIT, CLE and so forth connecting thru the DL JFK hub. Similarly, likes of secondary cities in India that do not have ME3 flights.

This is in addition to the fact that NY city constitutes the largest aviation market and BOM as one of the larger markets in India.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5338
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 2:36 pm

alfa164 wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
One reliable feature of A.net now as I post and for years as a lurker is the prevalence of DTW fanboys. Makes us MIA proponents who are often over the top look rational by comparison. The flight will either be from JFK or ATL. I really don't see much logic DTW at all though I guess since RJ ended India service and since none of the ME3 or TK go to DTW you could make a case for it being linked AFTER either JFK or ATL service begins. That is if DL wants to tie up two more wide bodies.


:checkmark: In at least one case, I would say, "irrational DTW fanboy..."

LAXdude1023 wrote:
In case anyone is interested, here are the largest foreign born Indian communities in the US. This is foreign born only:

1. New York: 361,910 people
2. Bay Area: 249,903
3. Chicago: 142,508
4. Dallas: 108,570
5. Washington DC: 104,432
6. Los Angeles: 94,007
7. Philadelphia: 82,091
8. Houston: 75,609
9. Atlanta: 64,614


Somebody must have accidentally left DTW off that list. Or maybe it was a nefarious plot... :roll:


The Detroit/Ann Arbor full area has about 51k foreign born Indians. On this list after Atlanta, Boston and Seattle would be next and Detroit after that.
Next flight: IAH-UIO-IAH on UA in Y
 
ilovelamp
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:45 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 3:15 pm

IPFreely wrote:
klm617 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
In the celebration at the museum, Ed stated it would be from one of the east coast hubs. I'm assuming it would be JFK or ATL. Much to the dismay of the DTW crowd.


Ed says a lot of stuff that never materializes but suit the ocastion


Have to agree with klm on this. Lots of people still recall Ed saying DL would be getting a $50,000,000 reimbursement from Georgia Power; that ended up costing him a lot of credibility.


You assume the $50M would be a check made out to Delta and a ceremony would take place with an over-sized check. There are other face-saving ways Georgia Power could and probably have helped eased the costs to Delta. The easiest of ways would be a rate reduction or even bill credits for a period of time. Do I think Delta got the full $50M? No. But I do believe they get something out of it and it wasn’t done in a publicly transparent way to salvage a critical relationship with GP.
 
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binayak
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 3:20 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I wonder if the vagueness also come from coordinating with Jet? As I said earlier, I think the partnership could ideally have ATL-DEL and JFK-BOM. On the surface, I would think DL should fly whatever route is from ATL (plus they have a LR). That said, if JFK is to serve corporates (and the US client is the pickiest and pays more), then maybe DL flies JFK-BOM and Jet flies ATL-DEL? I think Jet on the ATL route could work if the 77W can fly it and the primary pax is India originating. On another note, I've been saying it should be JFK-BOM. Thinking about other routes, DL did offer ATL-JNB over NYC-JNB (assuming a 77L could make it). That would be a route where they chose connections over NYC business travelers. But there also it could be backtracking - meaning it is logical to fly JFK-ATL-JNB but not logical to fly NYC-ATL-BOM. Who knows...

Jet's 77W might make DEL ATL after they are refurbished. Well I don't find it logical for Jet Airways to add a USA flight from Delhi given it's an AI hub. Plus jet has in recent times lost quite a few Delhi based FFs to vistara i e 9W's position at DEL has weakened.
Best according to me will be DL must start with JFK BOM and if in 3-4 years, demand rises then DL/9W can do ATL BOM also. 9W will be making a lot of changes in its domestic network so I think DL is waiting to see 9W's new network and their departure banks from BOM.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6064
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 3:22 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
One reliable feature of A.net now as I post and for years as a lurker is the prevalence of DTW fanboys. Makes us MIA proponents who are often over the top look rational by comparison. The flight will either be from JFK or ATL. I really don't see much logic DTW at all though I guess since RJ ended India service and since none of the ME3 or TK go to DTW you could make a case for it being linked AFTER either JFK or ATL service begins. That is if DL wants to tie up two more wide bodies.


:checkmark: In at least one case, I would say, "irrational DTW fanboy..."

LAXdude1023 wrote:
In case anyone is interested, here are the largest foreign born Indian communities in the US. This is foreign born only:

1. New York: 361,910 people
2. Bay Area: 249,903
3. Chicago: 142,508
4. Dallas: 108,570
5. Washington DC: 104,432
6. Los Angeles: 94,007
7. Philadelphia: 82,091
8. Houston: 75,609
9. Atlanta: 64,614


Somebody must have accidentally left DTW off that list. Or maybe it was a nefarious plot... :roll:


The Detroit/Ann Arbor full area has about 51k foreign born Indians. On this list after Atlanta, Boston and Seattle would be next and Detroit after that.


You should start including fine print every time you post this list (or) post latest PDEW numbers. It neither includes US born Indian origins nor non-immigrant VFR passengers.

You are using migration pattern statistics to interpret travel patterns. By your logic if ~3 Million Syrians moved to Germany, FRA-DAM needs double daily A380 non-stop service.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5338
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 3:48 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

:checkmark: In at least one case, I would say, "irrational DTW fanboy..."



Somebody must have accidentally left DTW off that list. Or maybe it was a nefarious plot... :roll:


The Detroit/Ann Arbor full area has about 51k foreign born Indians. On this list after Atlanta, Boston and Seattle would be next and Detroit after that.


You should start including fine print every time you post this list (or) post latest PDEW numbers. It neither includes US born Indian origins nor non-immigrant VFR passengers.

You are using migration pattern statistics to interpret travel patterns. By your logic if ~3 Million Syrians moved to Germany, FRA-DAM needs double daily A380 non-stop service.


DTW to BOM is roughly 28 PDEW

ATL to BOM is roughly 45 PDEW

NYC to BOM is roughly 380 PDEW

Perhaps theres good reason why NYC carries the bulk of the US-India market.
Next flight: IAH-UIO-IAH on UA in Y
 
klm617
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 4:30 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

The Detroit/Ann Arbor full area has about 51k foreign born Indians. On this list after Atlanta, Boston and Seattle would be next and Detroit after that.


You should start including fine print every time you post this list (or) post latest PDEW numbers. It neither includes US born Indian origins nor non-immigrant VFR passengers.

You are using migration pattern statistics to interpret travel patterns. By your logic if ~3 Million Syrians moved to Germany, FRA-DAM needs double daily A380 non-stop service.


DTW to BOM is roughly 28 PDEW

ATL to BOM is roughly 45 PDEW

NYC to BOM is roughly 380 PDEW

Perhaps theres good reason why NYC carries the bulk of the US-India market.


Is there any way we could get the total number of passengers for the three markets to the entire of India. Even at 45 per day ATL-BOM is no where viable. I would also add 10% to the DTW number for those that drive to either Chicago or Toronto. I think even better than a DTW-India nonstop EK would be better on a DTW-DXB flight as it would serve a much broader market.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 4:34 pm

HIA350 wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?



JFK Distance: 7,789.62 mi A350 makes it


Yes but the A350 is a Detroit based aircraft how do you route it in and out of JFK. Certainly Delta is not going to add DTW-JFK on an A350 just to feed this route. Count on it being a 777
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 2986
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 4:36 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Indicative of lack of demand relative to the myriad of other places they've instead decided to serve....





That's an opinion not a fact.


No sir, it’s fact.


So when you make an assumption it's a fact but when I do it's invalid :roll:
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ilovelamp
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:45 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 4:42 pm

klm617 wrote:
HIA350 wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
I’m assuming JFK service. If so, will it be back on the LR or can the A350 make it?



JFK Distance: 7,789.62 mi A350 makes it


Yes but the A350 is a Detroit based aircraft how do you route it in and out of JFK. Certainly Delta is not going to add DTW-JFK on an A350 just to feed this route. Count on it being a 777


Easy. They would DH the pilots in and out of JFK from/to DTW. They do it all the time as it’s cheaper than having to keep a fully staffed base every possible place an aircraft could fly.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6064
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 4:43 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

The Detroit/Ann Arbor full area has about 51k foreign born Indians. On this list after Atlanta, Boston and Seattle would be next and Detroit after that.


You should start including fine print every time you post this list (or) post latest PDEW numbers. It neither includes US born Indian origins nor non-immigrant VFR passengers.

You are using migration pattern statistics to interpret travel patterns. By your logic if ~3 Million Syrians moved to Germany, FRA-DAM needs double daily A380 non-stop service.


DTW to BOM is roughly 28 PDEW

ATL to BOM is roughly 45 PDEW

NYC to BOM is roughly 380 PDEW

Perhaps theres good reason why NYC carries the bulk of the US-India market.


No one is questioning about NYC market size, question is how Delta is going demand premium in a capacity dumped market.

Between AI and UA there are 500 non-stop seats between NYC-BOM. AI also has 330 more seats on JFK-DEL-BOM.

And number of one-stop options.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5338
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:01 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

You should start including fine print every time you post this list (or) post latest PDEW numbers. It neither includes US born Indian origins nor non-immigrant VFR passengers.

You are using migration pattern statistics to interpret travel patterns. By your logic if ~3 Million Syrians moved to Germany, FRA-DAM needs double daily A380 non-stop service.


DTW to BOM is roughly 28 PDEW

ATL to BOM is roughly 45 PDEW

NYC to BOM is roughly 380 PDEW

Perhaps theres good reason why NYC carries the bulk of the US-India market.


No one is questioning about NYC market size, question is how Delta is going demand premium in a capacity dumped market.

Between AI and UA there are 500 non-stop seats between NYC-BOM. AI also has 330 more seats on JFK-DEL-BOM.

And number of one-stop options.


DTW and ATL also have a number of one stop options. ATL moreso than DTW, but ATL is a more international market from an O&D perspective. DTW's international O&D is oriented towards auto markets like Germany, Japan, Mexico, and China.
Next flight: IAH-UIO-IAH on UA in Y
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6064
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:29 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
DTW and ATL also have a number of one stop options. ATL moreso than DTW, but ATL is a more international market from an O&D perspective..


ATL has one-stop to 12 Indian airports
DTW has one-stop to 4 Indian airports.

A non-stop to BOM/DEL also adds one-stops to 35-40 Indian airports

45 PDEW is not yuge O&D market. In 2012 DTW-India PDEW was 120.
 
winginit
Posts: 1542
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:37 pm

klm617 wrote:
Only two East coast hubs for Delta are BOS and JFK


What are you talking about? Pull out a map for us please. Do you see the 'Atlantic Ocean' touching the state of Michigan? You don't. Now, do you see it touching 'Georgia'? You do! The East Coast is defined by the coastal states that have a shoreline on the Atlantic Ocean, which includes Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida.

Atlanta is in the coastal state of Georgia which makes it such that it could be defined as an East Coast hub.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6863
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:41 pm

777Mech wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see 9W on BOS-BOM soon as well.

I think that is why 9W, AF, KL, DL (and maybe VS?) are doing the whole joint venture thing. BOS can be effectively served from India by AF, DL and VS via CDG, AMS and LHR, respectively.
Upcoming AF MEX-CDG A380, JP CDG-LJU CR9, AF MXP-CDG A318, AF CDG-MEX A380!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5338
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:41 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
DTW and ATL also have a number of one stop options. ATL moreso than DTW, but ATL is a more international market from an O&D perspective..


ATL has one-stop to 12 Indian airports
DTW has one-stop to 4 Indian airports.

A non-stop to BOM/DEL also adds one-stops to 35-40 Indian airports

45 PDEW is not yuge O&D market. In 2012 DTW-India PDEW was 120.


Which is why I think DTW is ripe for an ME3 or TK. However, DTW-India nonstop is completely unnecessary. ATL and JFK are both better options here.

Lets go back a few years to when ATL didnt have an ME3 and take the India O&D size between the two. In 2013:

ATL-India was about 180 PDEW

DTW-India was about 110 PDEW

Granted I cannot tell you what percentage of J and Y traffic that is, but ATL-India is unquestionably larger.
Next flight: IAH-UIO-IAH on UA in Y
 
jagraham
Posts: 493
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:45 pm

T773ER wrote:
Flighty wrote:
vulindlela744 wrote:
I think it will definitely be flown by the a350. SQ does a daily nonstop from Singapore with no problems with their a350. I also think it’ll be from Atl. New York area already has daily Air India flights from JFK and EWR and UA flies daily from EWR to both BOM and DEL


Agreed on both counts, actually. ATL provides Delta with fresh pickings of USA-India city pairs, even though the local demand+distance is not ideal. ATL would provide the best India service to around 75-100 US cities. Take Bentonville Ark for example.

A350 will save lots of fuel, which is a dire concern here. As a former legacy management waterboy, the fuel burn on USA-BOM makes the mind reel. The object may be to lose as few millions per month as possible here. No one doubts the future growth of USA-India but for right now, Delta is making a calculated minimum foray to keep its possibilities open. And that means A350, if it makes it.


The A350 will not make it, at the company rally this afternoon they announced that it would be operated by a 777.


While the A359 is a great plane, it should be clear by now that Delta TechOps does not think the A359 flies as far as a.netters claim
 
jagraham
Posts: 493
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:46 pm

It is also worth noting that when Delta served India before, it was thru CDG. Not nonstop from the US.
 
winginit
Posts: 1542
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:48 pm

jagraham wrote:
T773ER wrote:
Flighty wrote:

Agreed on both counts, actually. ATL provides Delta with fresh pickings of USA-India city pairs, even though the local demand+distance is not ideal. ATL would provide the best India service to around 75-100 US cities. Take Bentonville Ark for example.

A350 will save lots of fuel, which is a dire concern here. As a former legacy management waterboy, the fuel burn on USA-BOM makes the mind reel. The object may be to lose as few millions per month as possible here. No one doubts the future growth of USA-India but for right now, Delta is making a calculated minimum foray to keep its possibilities open. And that means A350, if it makes it.


The A350 will not make it, at the company rally this afternoon they announced that it would be operated by a 777.


While the A359 is a great plane, it should be clear by now that Delta TechOps does not think the A359 flies as far as a.netters claim


True. As another example of this, there was a seemingly endless a.net back and forth as to whether or not the A359 could make LAXSYD. While consensus was that it could, DL staff said numerous times during their A350 event in LAX earlier this month that it could not without a notable penalty.
 
winginit
Posts: 1542
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:57 pm

jagraham wrote:
It is also worth noting that when Delta served India before, it was thru CDG. Not nonstop from the US.


AMS, not CDG.

Up to November 2006: via CDG
Nov 2006 - Nov 2008: Nonstop from JFK
Nov 2008 - Oct 2009: Nonstop from ATL
Jan 2010 - Mar 2015: via AMS
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6064
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 5:59 pm

winginit wrote:
...
Atlanta is in the coastal state of Georgia which makes it such that it could be defined as an East Coast hub.


You might want to check with your middle school social studies teacher before you make such bold claim. First settlers of Mars will be closer to water than Metro Atlanta population.
 
777Mech
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 6:22 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
winginit wrote:
...
Atlanta is in the coastal state of Georgia which makes it such that it could be defined as an East Coast hub.


You might want to check with your middle school social studies teacher before you make such bold claim. First settlers of Mars will be closer to water than Metro Atlanta population.


Coming from the guy that said Atlanta is not in the eastern part of the US.

So is PDX on the west coast?
 
toobz
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 6:34 pm

Yeah I just can’t with these two. What are they putting in your water in Detroit?? How exactly is Georgia not an east coast state?? Amazing..I wasn’t even born in the US and I am obviously more knowledgeable when it comes to your geography lol. Annoying and unreal.

My bet is on JFK. Although ATL is also a good guess due to the amount of connections. 777LR for equipment. I think NYC would love this. Who would take UA or AI unless EWR was your backyard..
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 6:43 pm

toobz wrote:
I think NYC would love this. Who would take UA or AI unless EWR was your backyard..


My guess is a lot of people are still going to take AI, who is the more apt competitor given they fly JFK-BOM and will go h2h with DL with generally lower prices (assuming DL pricepoint is somewhere around what UA charges on EWR-BOM).

I think DL will do fine, but I am really intrigued to see how this all plays out.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 10911
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 6:54 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
DL did offer ATL-JNB over NYC-JNB (assuming a 77L could make it).

JFK-JNB is shorter than the ATL-JNB route that they already serve nonstop.


jagraham wrote:
It is also worth noting that when Delta served India before, it was thru CDG. Not nonstop from the US.

Not quite.

DL's nonstops to India, in order of most recently operating are:
AMS-BOM
ATL-BOM
JFK-BOM
CDG-MAA
CDG-BOM
FRA-BOM
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
panamair
Posts: 3969
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 7:02 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
My guess is a lot of people are still going to take AI, who is the more apt competitor given they fly JFK-BOM and will go h2h with DL with generally lower prices


AI doesn't fly JFK-BOM nonstop; it's a one-stop via DEL.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 10911
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 7:10 pm

jagraham wrote:
While the A359 is a great plane, it should be clear by now that Delta TechOps does not think the A359 flies as far as a.netters claim

Or, it could just be that Delta TechOps knows that DL purchased their A359s with low 268T MTOWs versus the 278 tonnes currently available; which has the effect of limiting those particular ships' range at payload in exchange for decreased costs.... something that can easily be changed with a phone call to TLS and ensuing cheque, if the airline wanted.

It has nothing to do with the range of the A359 itself, the standard model of which can easily do 17hrs+ even without the -ULR modifications.


axiom wrote:
I am so close to blocking each of you -- you're becoming intractiable trolls who add absolutely nothing to this conversation.

The problem with that though, is that you'll still see the 50+ posts in each thread from everyone else telling them that they're clueless; so the distraction will still be there. :(
Last edited by LAX772LR on Tue May 29, 2018 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
tphuang
Posts: 1764
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 7:14 pm

toobz wrote:
Yeah I just can’t with these two. What are they putting in your water in Detroit?? How exactly is Georgia not an east coast state?? Amazing..I wasn’t even born in the US and I am obviously more knowledgeable when it comes to your geography lol. Annoying and unreal.

My bet is on JFK. Although ATL is also a good guess due to the amount of connections. 777LR for equipment. I think NYC would love this. Who would take UA or AI unless EWR was your backyard..

Nyc already has ek. Which most people fly. This is not some high yielding market that nobody has figured out.
 
gsg013
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 7:27 pm

IMHO given the option between DL or AI on a direct flight NYC-BOM most people would choose DL hands down. The product is far superior both hard and soft. AI is not really thought of a trustworthy airline and I know a lot of people in Finance and big spenders in NYC that already travel to India in J or F and typically choose a longer 1-stop route over either UA or AI on the route.
 
User avatar
Slash787
Posts: 701
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 7:45 pm

gsg013 wrote:
IMHO given the option between DL or AI on a direct flight NYC-BOM most people would choose DL hands down. The product is far superior both hard and soft. AI is not really thought of a trustworthy airline and I know a lot of people in Finance and big spenders in NYC that already travel to India in J or F and typically choose a longer 1-stop route over either UA or AI on the route.


Yeah well thats true, I'd fly any airline with a stopover rather than a direct flight with AI, I have had my bad experiences 2 to 3 times with them before.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 7:54 pm

panamair wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
My guess is a lot of people are still going to take AI, who is the more apt competitor given they fly JFK-BOM and will go h2h with DL with generally lower prices


AI doesn't fly JFK-BOM nonstop; it's a one-stop via DEL.


My mistake, you (and the other poster who I responded to, were right. Momentary lapse on my end.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5338
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 7:54 pm

Slash787 wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
IMHO given the option between DL or AI on a direct flight NYC-BOM most people would choose DL hands down. The product is far superior both hard and soft. AI is not really thought of a trustworthy airline and I know a lot of people in Finance and big spenders in NYC that already travel to India in J or F and typically choose a longer 1-stop route over either UA or AI on the route.


Yeah well thats true, I'd fly any airline with a stopover rather than a direct flight with AI, I have had my bad experiences 2 to 3 times with them before.


The ME3 are popular for a reason. They dont really provide much of a cost savings as opposed to AI, but the have a better reputation.
Next flight: IAH-UIO-IAH on UA in Y
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 7:55 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
gsg013 wrote:
IMHO given the option between DL or AI on a direct flight NYC-BOM most people would choose DL hands down. The product is far superior both hard and soft. AI is not really thought of a trustworthy airline and I know a lot of people in Finance and big spenders in NYC that already travel to India in J or F and typically choose a longer 1-stop route over either UA or AI on the route.


Yeah well thats true, I'd fly any airline with a stopover rather than a direct flight with AI, I have had my bad experiences 2 to 3 times with them before.


The ME3 are popular for a reason. They dont really provide much of a cost savings as opposed to AI, but the have a better reputation.


They generally do provide cost savings. Now, whether those savings are worth the added time? Not sure.

But it is rare to find one of the non-stops (UA or AI) being cheaper than JFK-DXB/AUH/DOH-BOM/DEL
 
jagraham
Posts: 493
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 8:39 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
jagraham wrote:
While the A359 is a great plane, it should be clear by now that Delta TechOps does not think the A359 flies as far as a.netters claim

Or, it could just be that Delta TechOps knows that DL purchased their A359s with low 268T MTOWs versus the 278 tonnes currently available; which has the effect of limiting those particular ships' range at payload in exchange for decreased costs.... something that can easily be changed with a phone call to TLS and ensuing cheque, if the airline wanted.

It has nothing to do with the range of the A359 itself, the standard model of which can easily do 17hrs+ even without the -ULR modifications.


axiom wrote:
I am so close to blocking each of you -- you're becoming intractiable trolls who add absolutely nothing to this conversation.

The problem with that though, is that you'll still see the 50+ posts in each thread from everyone else telling them that they're clueless; so the distraction will still be there. :(





The range of the A359 is very dependent upon the weight variant. I believe that the 278t A359 will do real world 7500 nm (8700 statute miles) flights; which the 268 But even without that capability, there are plenty of places to fly an A359 under 7000 nm in Delta's network. Delta can move all 777s to 15+ hr flights where their range and payload are needed.
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 9:19 pm

I have a headache after reading this thread, after seeing the inaccuracies and emotion that plays into this, having worked in network planning before.

Network planning (and revenue management, scheduling) decisions like this are done with a great deal of analysis and thought and are not some conspiracy against one airport or another, or a certain plane, nor do they always match what a CEO says sometimes. Sometimes with a crock airline or one that is mismanaged, they are done terribly, or they are done purely on emotion or dare I say in the case of EWR-CAE, done for illegal reasons. For an airline like DL I would be shocked if they are not taking the analysis and thought planning approach.

If the numbers for O&D and connections say that one route is better than the other, then they will go for it.

Just wait to see what they announce...
 
cvgComair
Posts: 1861
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Delta to serve Mumbai nonstop in 2019

Tue May 29, 2018 11:18 pm

kavok wrote:
Wouldn’t the flight route of NYC/ATL/DTW-India go straight north, and then fly over China/Russia plus some other nations with “US perceived ‘security’ issues”? It seems like whatever routing is chosen would have to overfly areas that could become politically unstable or closed airspace. I could be wrong, but I thought US-India flights were North Pole routes.

No, NYC/ATL/DTW-India are a little more southern and kind of follow the route of any typical TATL. SEA would go pretty close over the North Pole.
Image
Here is a pretty typical routing for UA's EWR-BOM flight:
Image
Next: BGR-LGA (Delta CRJ-200), LGA-CVG (Delta CRJ-900)
DL SM, A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
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