SpaceshipDC10
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Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 11:34 am

In a letter they have sent to their CEO, pilots believe savings have been made in some important and security systems of A320s recently acquired, and regarding the A340s, they criticize the location of their crew rest bunks in the rear cargo hold, 40 meters from the cockpit, which they consider as not ideal in case of an incident or emergency. In the list is mentioned the lack of both ground collision security system and automatic frost alarm.

Cabin crews are also not happy because according to them, the product is not up to the holiday flights standards passengers paid for. In two aircraft there are no entertainment or information screens, seats width is not as advertised nor is class' separations.

The company rejects all the security concerns.


https://www.tdg.ch/economie/edelweiss-p ... y/23274074
 
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PPVLC
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 12:28 pm

I'm curious to know if any other airline uses the same location for theis crew rest bunks on their A340s. Were there complaints before?
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
a318
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and capbin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 12:40 pm

PPVLC wrote:
I'm curious to know if any other airline uses the same location for theis crew rest bunks on their A340s. Were there complaints before?


I’ve been cabin crew on the 330/340 for three different airlines and all three had crew rest in the same location as Edelweiss. Never heard anyone complaining about safety issues due to the location until now.
 
CRJ900
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and capbin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 12:46 pm

a318 wrote:
PPVLC wrote:
I'm curious to know if any other airline uses the same location for theis crew rest bunks on their A340s. Were there complaints before?


I’ve been cabin crew on the 330/340 for three different airlines and all three had crew rest in the same location as Edelweiss. Never heard anyone complaining about safety issues due to the location until now.


I thought the crew rest module in the aft cargo hold was for cabin crew only? I have seen many A340 seat maps where the pilot crew rest module is where the #1 galley unit normally is, just behind the cockpit.

Are the Edelweiss A340 not ex-SWISS aircraft?
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RetiredNWA
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 1:31 pm

What is an “automatic frost alarm”? This is something I’ve never heard of.

The location of crew bunks is a long-disputed issue of every long-haul airline.
 
dynamo12
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 1:51 pm

Very concerning that safety is at risk in such a major way - especially given other carriers haven't highlighted these major risks! And where is the FAA and Airbus on these critical issues of safety?

Separately and in unrelated news.

AEROPERS seeking new collective agreement with Edelweiss due to irreconciliable differences over pay and benefits.
 
Philippine747
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 2:03 pm

RetiredNWA wrote:
What is an “automatic frost alarm”? This is something I’ve never heard of.

The location of crew bunks is a long-disputed issue of every long-haul airline.


Must be referring to an automatic ice-detection/anti-ice system.

PPVLC wrote:
I'm curious to know if any other airline uses the same location for theis crew rest bunks on their A340s. Were there complaints before?


LH had something like that...
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 2:11 pm

Probably talking about the "new" ex-AB frames, which are a bit different, i.e. no screens, thus the FAs have to do the security demonstration.
 
alfa164
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 4:08 pm

dynamo12 wrote:
Very concerning that safety is at risk in such a major way - especially given other carriers haven't highlighted these major risks! And where is the FAA and Airbus on these critical issues of safety?
Separately and in unrelated news. AEROPERS seeking new collective agreement with Edelweiss due to irreconciliable differences over pay and benefits.


I wouldn't be so sure the attempt at a new collective agreement is unrelated..... :roll:
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excc
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 8:03 pm

First post here.

I used to work as a flight attendant based in ZRH.

The article says that the pilots are using the crew rest, otherwise known as the LDMCR - Lower Deck Mobile Crew Rest, located at door 3L.

From my experience as working in Switzerland as a flight attendant, I can say that FTLs are seen as targets and not guidelines. I remember working many long haul flights ex-Switzerland without the opportunity of bunk rest.

I know that Edelweiss and Swiss do not have crew bunks on their A330 - instead, ironically named High Comfort Jumpseats are used. Bad luck if flying on a route usually operated by the A330 which is replaced by an A340 - no High Comfort Jumpseats and the crewbunk is offloaded = no rest!

I could very well imagine that if Edelweiss is deploying the A340 on routes where the flight deck are allowed horizontal rest in the bunk but the cabin crew have to make do with the extremely uncomfortable jumpseat.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Topic Author
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 8:13 pm

Philippine747 wrote:
Must be referring to an automatic ice-detection/anti-ice system.


That's right. I'm not completely familiar with the jargon.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 8:28 pm

They need to get some Neo's.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Fri May 25, 2018 9:17 pm

alfa164 wrote:
dynamo12 wrote:
Very concerning that safety is at risk in such a major way - especially given other carriers haven't highlighted these major risks! And where is the FAA and Airbus on these critical issues of safety?
Separately and in unrelated news. AEROPERS seeking new collective agreement with Edelweiss due to irreconciliable differences over pay and benefits.


I wouldn't be so sure the attempt at a new collective agreement is unrelated..... :roll:


That's what I was thinking. Can you say union grievance? Immaterial nonsense to be bargained away.
 
dcajet
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Sat May 26, 2018 12:21 am

PPVLC wrote:
I'm curious to know if any other airline uses the same location for theis crew rest bunks on their A340s. Were there complaints before?


On some A340/A330s, the technical crew rest area is right behind the cockpit and the cabin crew is in the LDMCR - Lower Deck Mobile Crew Rest, located at door 3L. It all depends on how the original operator requested the configuration when the plane was new. Most leisure operators have neither and block cabin seats as crew rest areas, or in this case, as a legacy from Swiss, their A340 may just feature the LDMCR.
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Varsity1
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Sat May 26, 2018 4:56 am

Not having GPWS in the year 2018 is indeed pretty ridiculous.

That needs to change.
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glen
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Sat May 26, 2018 6:49 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Not having GPWS in the year 2018 is indeed pretty ridiculous.

That needs to change.


They are not talking about the GPWS, they talk about the RAAS (Runway Awareness and Advisory System) - a system which informs you when approaching or entering a runway, or if you are trying to take-off on a taxiway.
"The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view." - Albert Einstein
 
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PPVLC
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Sat May 26, 2018 1:17 pm

dcajet wrote:
PPVLC wrote:
I'm curious to know if any other airline uses the same location for theis crew rest bunks on their A340s. Were there complaints before?


On some A340/A330s, the technical crew rest area is right behind the cockpit and the cabin crew is in the LDMCR - Lower Deck Mobile Crew Rest, located at door 3L. It all depends on how the original operator requested the configuration when the plane was new. Most leisure operators have neither and block cabin seats as crew rest areas, or in this case, as a legacy from Swiss, their A340 may just feature the LDMCR.


Thank you. One might think that walking from 3L to the cockpit in an emergency is a rather long way but if no one ever complained about this before I'm not sure how the complaint can be dealt it now.
Oh yes, I remember when our crew rests were on cabin seats, they were clearly marked as "crew members only" and passengers were still attracted to them like flies to honey...
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
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cougar15
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Sat May 26, 2018 1:29 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
In a letter they have sent to their CEO, pilots believe savings have been made in some important and security systems of A320s recently acquired, and regarding the A340s, they criticize the location of their crew rest bunks in the rear cargo hold, 40 meters from the cockpit, which they consider as not ideal in case of an incident or emergency. In the list is mentioned the lack of both ground collision security system and automatic frost alarm.

Cabin crews are also not happy because according to them, the product is not up to the holiday flights standards passengers paid for. In two aircraft there are no entertainment or information screens, seats width is not as advertised nor is class' separations.

The company rejects all the security concerns.


https://www.tdg.ch/economie/edelweiss-p ... y/23274074


Just waiting on the Brussels Airlines guys to complain next, operating 340s for Eurowings with the same config in regards to crew rest .....!
And wait for it, Air France crews will follow, just having woken up to this..... even if 20 odd years later! Oh Wait, I forgot LH Mainline or whatever the current offshoot is called flying the 343!

I may be too hard on this, but WK should be glad that the 340 gave them a lifeline, things could very well have gone different for all employees, given the current environment .

As for the 320, I cannot comment as I have no knowledge of the spec´s in question.
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dcajet
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Re: Edelweiss' pilots have security concerns and cabin crews are not proud of their product

Sat May 26, 2018 3:00 pm

PPVLC wrote:
dcajet wrote:
PPVLC wrote:
I'm curious to know if any other airline uses the same location for theis crew rest bunks on their A340s. Were there complaints before?


On some A340/A330s, the technical crew rest area is right behind the cockpit and the cabin crew is in the LDMCR - Lower Deck Mobile Crew Rest, located at door 3L. It all depends on how the original operator requested the configuration when the plane was new. Most leisure operators have neither and block cabin seats as crew rest areas, or in this case, as a legacy from Swiss, their A340 may just feature the LDMCR.


Thank you. One might think that walking from 3L to the cockpit in an emergency is a rather long way but if no one ever complained about this before I'm not sure how the complaint can be dealt it now.
Oh yes, I remember when our crew rests were on cabin seats, they were clearly marked as "crew members only" and passengers were still attracted to them like flies to honey...


Totally... those cordoned off crew rest areas seem to be like catnip for passengers. The more signs and curtains there are, the more they love to poke their heads in there and ask for a glass of water to the deep in sleep crew members...

These crew rest areas can be a problem when it comes to aircraft scheduling, At AR, the A330-200 that do not feature the tech cabin crew rest area behind the cockpit (5) can not be scheduled to fly to MAD or FCO because of the pilots' contract for flights over 10 1/2 hrs. So the longest flight possible is JFK at 10 1/4 hrs.
Then of that subset of 5, there are 2 that do not feature the LDMCR, so cabin crews are assigned a # of seats as their rest area.
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